I sincerely believe Joseph Smith used the items he found in the stone box for translation. Namely the plates with a breastplate and the spectacles to translate those plates.  Together the spectacles and breastplate are called the Interpreters as the Book of Mormon states. I realize some very good members of the church believe Joseph used a stone in a hat to translate, or a combination of both. It doesn’t ultimately matter which version you believe, but I believe Joseph did not use a stone in a hat. However, as Moromi said, “ye may know the truth of all things.” You may decide on your own of course.

Some will watch this video below that President Nelson did, and think our Prophet is telling us exactly how Joseph translated the plates and with what instruments. I agree that our Prophet is suggesting that using a stone in a hat may be a way that he feels Joseph could have possibly translated. But our Prophet says the stone in a hat process is only one of  “a lot of suggestions” as you listen to this video. What our Prophet said is not a revelation nor doctrine. He shared his thoughts about translation but it was just his opinion.

Below you see one of my personal “suggestions” how I envision Joseph translating with Emma. Emma didn’t see any of the translation items. It seems many historians insist there was a hat used in translation. I have a suggestion below that indicated a different way of using a hat. Not a top hat but likely a farmers hat.

Because Joseph was not allowed to show the instruments he may have used his farmers hat to hide the spectacles, and the breastplate may have been under his shirt, as Lucy Mack Smith says below. Of course the gold plates were likely partially hidden with the hat and a linen as you see in this painting. I explain more below.

Emma and David are not Liars

We have a Facebook friend who said the following to Rod Meldrum, after viewing this video (See it below). “I wonder, do you read the posts on the Firm Foundation Facebook page?  I’m curious how you can say Emma Smith and David Whitmer are liars, when President Nelson is on video confirming that Joseph used a seer stone to translate sometimes.  No reason he can’t use the Urim and Thummim sometimes and the stone at other times”.

I wrote this Facebook friend saying the following. “This is Rian Nelson. Rod Meldrum has likely read your question as he reads many of the posts. Rod has asked me to answer your question because I am the one who originally wrote about it.

First of all, I have never said David and Emma are liars and neither has Rod. We don’t use that type of language.

I say that neither David nor Emma ever saw the breastplate, the spectacles, or the gold plates during translation. Along with Martin Harris, neither one saw how Joseph received the translation using those instruments. The only ones who saw the breastplate, spectacles and gold plates during translation are Joseph and Oliver. I think it is very interesting that Lucy Mack Smith also felt both the spectacles and breastplate through a linen cloth as she describes them below.

Lucy Mack Smith About the Breastplate

“After bringing home the plates, Joseph now commenced work with his father on the farm in order to be as near as possible the treasure that was committed to his care.

Soon after this, he came in from work one afternoon, and after remaining a short time, he put on his greatcoat and left the house. I was engaged at the time in an upper room in preparing some oilcloths for painting. When he returned, he requested me to come downstairs. I told him that I could not leave my work just then, yet upon his urgent request, I finally concluded to go down and see what he wanted, upon which he handed me the breastplate spoken of in his history. It was wrapped in a thin muslin handkerchief, so thin that I could see the glistening metal and ascertain its proportions without any difficulty.

(Editors note: consider Joseph put on his “greatcoat” in order to hide the plates and Interpreters on his way back home).

Lucy describes the items as follows. “It was concave on one side and convex on the other and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders, and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips. They were just the width of two of my fingers (for I measured them), and they had holes in the end of them to be convenient in fastening.

The whole plate was worth at least five hundred dollars. After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummim.”  (History of Joseph Smith)

Lucy also said, “I have myself seen and handled the golden plates; they are about eight inches long, and six wide; some of them are sealed together and are not to be opened, and some of them are loose. They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate, and are covered with letters beautifully engraved. I have seen and felt also the Urim and Thummim. They resemble two large bright diamonds set in a bow like a pair of spectacles. My son puts these over his eyes when he reads unknown languages, and they enable him to interpret them in English. I have likewise carried in my hands the sacred breastplate. It is composed of pure gold and is made to fit the breast very exactly.” Lucy Mack Smith (in Henry Caswall, The City of the Mormons; or, Three Days at Nauvoo, in 1842, 2nd ed. revised and enlarged, (London: J. G. F. & J. Rivington, 1843), 26)

Anyone else would be a second or third hand witness to seeing the 3 items or handling them during translation.

Below is Pres Nelson’s video titled “The Book of Mormon Is Tangible Evidence of the Restorationon” and what he says about the hat and translation. Beginning at 3:30 is his quote I have transcribed the best I can, which is found below in red.

“Quite miraculous really, we have through the gift and power of God, we have a lot of suggestions about how it was done. We know that they had a table like this, we know they had the golden plates covered usually and Joseph used these a, the Urim and Thummim seer stones and the hat, it was easier for him to see the light when he, uh, take that position (holds hat up to his face). To me it’s like having my mobile phone in my hand and I can get messages on it that you can’t see. And they had nothing like that. So, it’s just the gift and power of God, how he was able to do that in that period of time, they started in Palmyra had to come here [Susquehanna], work as long as they could and ended up in Fayette, New York where the manuscript was finally finished.” Transcription of Video titled “The Book of Mormon Is Tangible Evidence of the Restoration.” President Russell M. Nelson and Jean B. Bingham, Relief Society General President, discuss the translation of the Book of Mormon at the site in Pennsylvania where Joseph Smith translated it. Beginning at minute 3:30

Notice  above where I underline certain words or phrases like “we know” or “covered usually”. I doubt our dear Prophet is stating these things as revelations, but as he and other historians think it may have happened. To say “we know” doesnt indicate that the Prophet KNOWS by revelation, but he and others have possibly surmised what happened. President Nelson was not present at the translation so as he says “covered usually”  is not a definate revelatory statement, but likely a suggestion as he and others thought it may have been. Understand, I know without a doubt that Russell M. Nelson is a Prophet of God and I sustain him completely. I just understand the differences between revelation and opinion as you hear from an apostle below.

 Hugh B. Brown Quote

“I admire men and women who have developed the questing spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent – if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant. Only error fears freedom of expression.”

“And while all members should respect, support, and heed the teachings of the authorities of the church, no one should accept a statement and base his or her testimony upon it, no matter who makes it, until he or she has, under mature examination, found it to be true and worthwhile; then one’s logical deductions may be confirmed by the spirit of revelation to his or her spirit, because real conversion must come from within.” – Apostle Hugh B. Brown, “A Final Testimony,” from An Abundant Life, 1999

Listen Carefully

Again I quote Pres Nelson in the video as saying, “we have a lot of suggestions about how it was done.” The Prophet was not necessarily sharing revelation with us, but just sharing one of the ideas he has heard about translation. The Prophet wasn’t present during translation so he has to rely on other peoples opinions. That’s why I look at the only two witnesses that ever saw the Urim and Thummim, and used them; Joseph and Oliver.

The prophet as well did not speak about the “Urim and Thummim seer stones” as separate things as you hear in his quote. Since the words Urim and Thummim are an indication of TWO things and the words SEER STONES indicate more than one, why are many scholars caught up in Joseph using a SINGLE STONE for translation? Yes Joseph Smith likely had several single seer stones he had found, but that doesn’t mean he used them to translate. The Lord gave Joseph the two stones in a silver bow and a breastplate in the stone box of Cumorah. Why wouldn’t Joseph use those and not a stone he found? No where in the scriptures does it mention a stone in a hat, but many places indicates two stones in silver bows attached to a breastplate. (JSH 1:35,52,62,75*; Mosiah 28:13, 20; Ether 3:22-23; 4:5; Alma 37:21, 24-25)

First Hand Witnesses

Joseph Smith said, “With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called “Urim and Thummim,” which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breast plate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God” (History of the Church, 4:537).

“Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted  “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book. . . “Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed.”(Joseph Smith History 1:35,42)

According to Joseph Fielding Smith, Oliver said, “I wrote with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, “holy interpreters.” I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the “holy interpreters.” The book is true. Sidney Rigdon did not write it; Mr. Spaulding did not write it; I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet.” Joseph Fielding Smith CHAPTER TWELVE A TESTIMONY AGAINST THE WORLD Address delivered Sunday, August 20, 1944

This below is actual scripture from the Pearl of Great Price in JSH 1:75*

“Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.” *JSH 1:75

I Thank our Facebook friend for asking the question. I believe Joseph and Oliver, used the instruments that came with the plates, Breastplate and Interpreters. It came in the stone box with the plates. It was in there since the Lord touched those two stones and the Brother of Jared buried it, later to have Moroni bury the sameitems that without, Joseph could not translate the plates. (See Ether 3:23-24; 4:5) The individual seer stone may have been used for other things but not for translation.

Did Joseph use both methods?

Here is one more quote from Joseph Fielding Smith:

“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22–24. These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Doctrines of Salvation,” Vol. 3, 225-26).

Now it is your choice to decide: Stone in a Hat, or Two Stones in a silver bow attached to the Breastplate?

Read more here: https://bookofmormonevidence.org/scriptural-evidence-interpreters-not-a-stone-in-a-hat/