Nephite Interpreters

Nowhere in the Book of Mormon does it say “Urim and Thummim”. It simply says “Interpreters.” Oliver Cowdery in the Pearl of Great Price said, “Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his [Joseph Smith] mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’”

I love the simplicity of understanding that the Lord had the Brother of Jared place the large breastplate and the two stones in a silver bow and the plates in the stone box at Cumorah in New York. No where was there any individual “seer stone” or oval shaped peep stone in the stone box. In that box were the two stones attached to a silver bow that the Brother of Jared buried and which were touched by the Lord’s finger before their burial. See Ether 3: 28 also D&C 17:1

I believe that Joseph Smith had an individual seer stone or several, but they were not used to translate, but as a righteous instrument to help Joseph in other ways. Many people in Joseph’s day had a peep stone or a stone of some sort to look for treasure. Similarly today, we have crystal balls and Ouija boards. I don’t believe Joseph ever used a stone for any purpose other than to help him do the will of the Lord. We will all receive a “White Stone” in the next life. “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.” Revelation 2:17

I believe Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery about how the plates were translated. They are the only two who saw the plates and the Urim and Thummim. (Lucy Mack held and described the breastplate under a linen cloth). Joseph and Oliver’s first hand accounts are to be believed. There are second and third hand accounts from Emma Smith, David Whitmer, Martin Harris, Willian McLellan and others who say Joseph used the stone in the hat (SITH) method, which I just don’t believe.

“With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called “Urim and Thummim,” which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rims of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God.” Joseph Smith Wentworth Letter

“He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;

Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book. …

Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed. While he was conversing with me about the plates, the vision was opened to my mind that I could see the place where the plates were deposited, and that so clearly and distinctly that I knew the place again when I visited it. Joseph Smith—History in the Pearl of Great Price or History of the Church, 1:2–79.

Oliver Cowdrey

Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’ Oliver Cowdery JSH 1:75 (See* after verse 75)

“Friends and brethren my name is Cowdery, Oliver Cowdery. In the early history of this church I stood identified with [you]. . . . I . . . handled with my hands the gold plates from which [the Book of Mormon] was translated. I also beheld the interpreters. That book is true. Sidney Rigdon did not write it. Mr. Spaulding did not write it. I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the prophet.” Miller, journal, 21 Oct. 1848

Joseph Fielding Smith

“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22–24. These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Doctrines of Salvation,” Vol. 3, 225-26).

James and Hannah Stoddard

Last year the Stoddard’s published an amazing book about the proper use of the Urim and Thummim with translating the Plates. Their incredible research and resource material is very well done. I highly recommend you read it.

Seer Stone V. Urim and Thummim: Book of Mormon Translation on Trial!

“A Man that Can Translate: Joseph Smith and the Nephite Interpreters” by Jonathan Neville

Readers here know I’ve blogged a bit about the translation of the Book of Mormon. This is a critical issue that people continue to debate, although many LDS scholars claim the debate is over.

Two alternative explanations were set forth in the 1834 book Mormonism Unvailed: Joseph produced the Book of Mormon with either

(i) the Urim and Thummim (U&T), or Nephite translators, that Moroni put in his stone box on the Hill Cumorah, as described in the text itself;

OR

(ii) the “peep” stone, or seer stone, that Joseph put into a hat before covering his face with the hat to read the words that appeared. I refer to this as SITH for “stone-in-the-hat” theory.

Some say it doesn’t matter how Joseph produced the Book of Mormon, whether because they think it’s true or they think it’s false. That’s fine with me; people can believe whatever they want, and most people seek only to confirm their biases either way.

Those aren’t the people I write this blog for.

Many people think it matters a great deal how Joseph produced the Book of Mormon. Because Joseph and Oliver spoke about it multiple times, I assume they thought it mattered. For most people, how Joseph produced the Book of Mormon is an important component of “convincing” the world that “Jesus is the Christ” as the Title Page declares.

If Joseph actually translated engravings that were recorded on ancient plates, that demonstrates the divine authenticity of the record. If Joseph merely “read” words that “appeared” on a stone in a hat, or recited words he saw in a vision while staring at such a stone, it is more difficult to see that as a demonstration of the divine authenticity of the record. It’s no wonder that from the outset, critics promoted SITH. As an impediment to acceptance of the Book of Mormon, what is more effective than SITH?

For over 180 years, LDS prophets taught U&T, while critics taught SITH.

However, in recent years, many LDS scholars (including the M2C citation cartel) have agreed with nonbelievers that SITH is correct. They now teach it as a fact. Book of Mormon Central spends millions of dollars to promote this and related ideas.

These scholars believe they are “inoculating” the youth in the Church and new converts by teaching SITH.

Inoculation is a great idea–unless it’s really infection.

Years ago I had a friend who suffered from the effects of a childhood polio vaccine. The manufacturer had released over 100,000 doses in which the virus had not been properly inactivated; people who received those doses received active virus. They were infected, not inoculated.

I think teaching SITH infects people with a false narrative. It’s great for people to learn about the witness statements regarding SITH, but they should also learn what Joseph and Oliver taught. Even better, they should learn how the historical facts support an explanation that reconciles what appears on the surface to be conflicting evidence.

However, our LDS scholars are only “reconciling” the evidence by claiming that Joseph and Oliver, as well as their successors as Church leaders, misled the Church. These scholars say the term “Urim and Thummim” really meant the seer stone, contrary to the historical evidence. They are teaching that Joseph never even used the plates, never used the Nephite interpreters, didn’t really translate anything, etc.

The situation is so dire that even the Gospel Topics Essay on Translation teaches SITH without once quoting what Joseph and Oliver said about the U&T.

Consequently, the narrative promoted by opponents of Joseph Smith to destroy the Restoration has become the prevailing narrative. By now, we all see how that is playing out in terms of the widespread faith crises.

Seeing a need for a detailed, historically documented explanation that supports what Joseph and Oliver taught, while also reconciling the statements from other witnesses, I wrote a A Man that Can Translate. I’ll summarize it below.

I don’t expect our LDS scholars, or critics who reject the Book of Mormon, to agree with my interpretation. Both groups have huge investments of time, reputation, and money in their respective positions. They focus on confirming their biases, not on considering alternative perspectives.
Book of Mormon Central, the most prominent and best-funded member of the citation cartel, identifies itself by a logo that forecloses consideration of alternative perspectives.

I wrote this book mainly for myself, to better understand the historical evidence. When I practiced law, I found that in many cases, the “truth” emerged from a reconciliation of multiple perspectives.

In every case, I would sit and watch the opposition present its case and, while seeing how the facts in evidence might support that version of the truth, I also knew there was an entirely different explanation of those same facts that I was about to present. Sometimes, both as a prosecutor and as a criminal defense lawyer, I knew facts I could not even present for various reasons.

I see the same process taking place when I do historical research. People take a position and then find evidence to support that position. They also seek evidence to discredit someone else’s position. People end up believing whatever they wanted to believe in the first place.

An exception is when someone’s beliefs are based on incomplete facts. In that situation, people are not making informed decisions.

This is why I mention Book of Mormon Central so often. Their approach is the antithesis of helping people make informed decisions because they censor alternative perspectives and insist people adhere to their editorial positions, buttressed by other members of their citation cartel to convey an impression of diversity and scholarship.

As a result of my research, I think both LDS scholars and critics are not making informed decisions.

They’ll undoubtedly disagree; scholars and critics always want to self-identify as “open-minded” and truth seekers who consider all the evidence. But they’re people, subject to bias confirmation, cognitive dissonance, and logical fallacies. As am I, which is why I welcome input if there is any evidence I’ve overlooked.

We published the book for those who are interested and willing to take a new look at the evidence.

Hopefully, some people will find it useful.

There is historical evidence in the form of witness statements to support both theories. They can be summarized this way:

(i) Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery always said Joseph translated the plates with the Urim and Thummim by the gift and power of God. A few others corroborated that claim. The first published declaration came in response to Mormonism Unvailed, when Oliver Cowdery declared,

“Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’” (Joseph Smith—History, Note, 1)

Joseph’s contemporaries and successors in Church leadership always reaffirmed what Joseph and Oliver taught; i.e., that Joseph translated the plates with the Urim and Thummim, or Nephite translators, that came with the plates.

(ii) Other people claimed that Joseph used SITH. Some claimed they were present during the event, others related what they’d heard or understood. Wikipedia collected some of these statements, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates#Translating_the_plates

In A Man that Can Translate, I assess the statements and propose the following reconciliation.

Joseph and Oliver were absolutely correct and honest when they said Joseph translated the engravings on the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim and by the gift and power of God. Joseph did not translate any of it with the seer stone.

The translation process was difficult and time-consuming. At the Whitmer farm, Joseph translated from sunrise to sunset, 14-hour days. (In the book I explain why I think Emma and other pre-Oliver scribes recorded most or all of Mosiah, which expands the time for translation in Harmony consistent with the laborious effort in Fayette.)

However, Joseph did conduct one or more demonstrations using the seer stone. Joseph faced a dilemma: Under commandment to not show the U&T or the plates to anyone unless specifically authorized (for good reason), Joseph also had family members and supporters wanting to know how he was translating. The curiosity was interfering with the actual translation. People were familiar with the idea of seer stones in hats, so he did the demonstration. Witnesses and hearsay took it from there, even though Joseph and Oliver always specified Joseph translated with the U&T.

Mormonism Unvailed, which set forth the competing explanations, also set forth the Solomon Spalding theory, which claimed the Book of Mormon was copied from a novel by Spalding, adapted by Sidney Rigdon, who added Christian sermons and rhetoric. The Spalding theory became the predominant explanation for the Book of Mormon outside of the Church in the 1800s, widely reported in newspapers, by ministers, etc.

A key element of the Spalding theory was Joseph reading from the Spalding manuscript from behind a curtain. If you read the major statements about SITH in context, you see that they were prefaced by a rejection of the Spalding theory, including assertions that Joseph had no manuscript or other document to read from. In other words, after Joseph and Oliver died, SITH became a refutation of the Spalding theory.

An interesting detail from the demonstration account is that Joseph had multiple scribes present so they could take over when one got tired. That indicates a rapid dictation–much different from the laborious effort in Harmony and upstairs in Fayette. This detail also tells us that the demonstration had to involve Second Nephi (partly because Emma was one of the scribes at the demonstration and she did not write any of First Nephi). For the reasons explained in the book, I think Joseph used the demonstration to dictate some of the Isaiah chapters in Second Nephi from memory. That’s why these chapters have otherwise inexplicable minor differences from the King James version, etc.

This is merely an overview; you can get the details in the book, supported by hundreds of footnotes.

A Man that Can Translate: Joseph Smith and the Nephite Interpreters

Jonathan Neville | December 18, 2020 at 7:14 pm | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: https://wp.me/p741A5-Xu

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Three Small Pillars

“The manner in which the plates were deposited: First, a hole of sufficient depth, (how deep I know not) was dug. At the bottom of this was laid a stone of suitable size, the upper surface being smooth. At each edge was placed a large quantity of cement, and into this cement, at the four edges of this stone, were placed, erect, four others, their bottom edges resting in the cement at the outer edges of the first stone. The four last named, when placed erect, formed a box, the corners, or where the edges of the four came in contact, were also cemented so firmly that the moisture from without was prevented from entering. It is to be observed, also, that the inner surface of the four erect, or side stones was smoothe. This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and  of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph… I must not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillars were not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstances you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.” Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835

I have a blog called “Plates Lay on 2, 3,or 4 Pillars?”, coming soon, where it is stated the plates rested on “4 pillars” and even on “two stones crossways.”

No Liahona or Sword with the Plates

The reason the Mesoamericans say the Liahona and the Sword of Laban were in the stone box is so they can dispute the fact that there was a Cave at Hill Cumorah in NY as Orson Pratt said.

“The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . .

These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)

Mesoamericanists say the last battle of the Nephites and Lamanites happened in Mexico somewhere and we say it happened at the same Hill in New York.