Below are the four most important questions you can answer that assist you in discovering the path of the Jaredites travel to the Promised Land of North America.
1-Where did the Lord command the Jaredites to travel to, after the tower of Babel fell? “That they should go forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been?” Ether 2:5 Where is this quarter of land? 2- How many sets of barges did the Jaredites build as the Lord said, “go to work and build, after the manner of barges which ye have hitherto built” and where did the Jaredites build each seperate set of barges? Ether 2:16 3. How many days were the Jaredites on the water before reaching the Promised Land, and where in the world would barges be able to be continuously on the water in this long of a journey? “And thus they were driven forth, three hundred and forty and four days upon the water.” Ether 6:11 4. Is there archaeology found today that can verify the Jaredites timeline [apx. 2200 BC] in these areas of travel? Yes!
I will discuss briefly these four questions. For my complete blog read here.
Answer these 4 questions and you will follow my logic in understanding where the Jaredites may have traveled from and to.
My Summation: I believe the Jaredites traveled on foot from the Tower of Babel area, to near Kuwait, built their first set of barges and crossed “many waters” [gulfs, inlets, seas, bays etc] beginning at the Persian Gulf. After sailing through this gulf, they continued through the Gulf of Oman, Arabian Sea, Laccadive Sea, Bay of Bengal, Gulf of Thailand, South China Sea and perhaps the Philippine Sea. They plausibly arrived in either Japan, Taiwan, or near Shanghai, China and stayed for 4 years building their 2nd set of barges to sail on the Great Waters or ocean to the Promised Land. They were on the water 344 days, landing near Seattle WA.
Great Sea
Ether 2:13 that great sea which divideth the lands. [this=Atlantic, that=Pacific] Jared did not know about Atlantic which is only 150 years after Noah. “That” great sea always existed. Ether 2:22 wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this (speaking from China) great water in darkness? Ether 2:25 for ye cannot cross this (speaking from China) great deep
Into the Wilderness
After the destruction of the Tower of Babel, the Jaredites were commanded to “go forth into the wilderness”. Ether 2:5. Which direction did they travel? Southeast! Why? Ether 2:7 tells us their direction as we explain below.
Where There Never Had Man Been
We read in the Book of Momron in Ether 2:7, “Yea, into that quarter where there never had man been.” This scripture speaks about where the Brother of Jared traveled after leaving the area near the Tower of Babel after it was destroyed. Where is this quarter where man had never been? Can this area give us an indication of the path the Jaredites traveled on their way to the Promised Land? Yes!
As you see in the map above, the most likely quarter of land near the tower that was a place that man had never been was the southeast quarter of land. Why? Once Noah’s ark landed just north of the Tower of Babel, look above at which lands were mostly populated. South west was the land of Ham and his descendants. Traveling northwest into Europe were mostly the people of Shem and traveling into the northesat into Asia were the people of Japeth.
The Lord was directing the righteous Jaredites to travel to a place where “man had never been” so as to not be followed by the people who were less righteous than the Jaredites. Now realize there were most likely all three lineages of Ham, Shem, and Japeth that were part of these righteous Jaredites.
Today’s Empty Quarter
“That quarter where there never had man been” (Ether 2:5),is likely to the southeast or Babel which today is called the “Empty Quarter” as you read below.
Saudi Arabia’s Empty Quarter: Beauty and wealth of world’s largest sand desert
Mohammed al-Harbi, Al Arabiya Published:
“Saudi Arabia’s Rub’ al-Khali desert, also known as the Empty Quarter,is the world’s largest sand desert. It is the world’s largest area of continuous sand, covering about a quarter of the Kingdom’s land surface.
Dunes in the Empty Quarter, 1,000 mile area of dunes and desert, not crossed until 20th century, Arabian Peninsula, Sultanate of Oman
The basin lying mainly in southeastern Saudi Arabia is where the wind plays a major role in forming and shaping its sand. Its sandy elevations could match the mountains in their high altitude, some of which may reach more than 450 meters.
‘One who can exit it, must be born again, while those inside, remain missing,’ the ancients used to say of this mythical desert, in line with tales of the “Lost City”. It is believed that entering the desert without a guide is a step leading to imminent death, because of scarce water resources, extreme heat and inescapable mazes of sand, a type of which the human body can get immersed in up until the knees.
The sand dunes vary in the Empty Quarter and the entire desert can be divided into five sections based on their types.
It extends over four nations. About 80 percent of it lies in Saudi Arabia, while its eastern edges extend to the United Arab Emirates, and its southern border is in Oman. Parts of its southern and southwestern limits lie in Yemen.
Life in the Empty Quarter
Though its name suggests that no one lives there, many tribes have lived and still inhabit the region. One of the famous travelers to Arabia, St. John Philby, said that bedouins called it the Empty Quarter to refer to the vast and mysterious wilderness, adding that the bedouins would still like to call it “empty” though they inhabit the region.” Source:
It is very likely the Jaredites entered this emply quarter in Saudi Arabia as the Lord sent them to “that quarter where there never had man been”. Ether 2:5
Jaredite Voyages- 1st Set of Barges (“Many Waters”)
I believe the Jaredite information is so ancient (Apx 1800 to 2200 BC) which makes it difficult to be very accurate in determining the correct route of the Jaredites, but it is very interesting to speculate on the possibility of each voyage. With many hours of research, study and prayer I have come up with a very plausible route of the Jaredites to America.
Ether 2: 5 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded them that they should go forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been. And it came to pass that the Lord did go before them, and did talk with them as he stood in a cloud, and gave directions whither they should travel. (See map below. I have divided the map in quarters using the location of the Tower of Babel (Baghdad, Iraq) as the center point, where we believe the Jaredites lived close by. The quarter that is most likely to be where the Lord said, “that quarter where there never had man been“, is most likely the south east quarter. We know after the flood, Noah had three sons, Ham, Shem, and Japeth who began civilization near Mount Ararat in Turkey. After Noah landed at just north of Baghdad, Ham Shem and Japeth with family’s spread all over. They went northwest into Turkey, Greece, Poland and Europe. They spread northeast into Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Russia and Mongolia. They also spread far into Egypt, Libya, Sudan and Ethiopia. It seems likely to me that they least traveled to the area of Burma, Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore as ship travel probably made it not as feasible to travel there. The people getting on a ship to go anywhere far away for just travel, seems unrealistic with all the land and water close by. Sea travel of course was great for trade around the Mediterranean Sea and Persian Gulf, as the Phoenicians have proven. It says in Ether 2:6, they traveled in the wilderness, built barges, and crossed many waters. In my opinion it is most likely they traveled on foot towards the best water source to complete their long few voyages ahead. I don’t think they traveled towards the Mediterranean, as that is an area that many people were already located and not as the Lord said, “that quarter where there never had man been” Also travel to the north or east would require traveling over high mountainous terrain. See Map Below
Being surrounded by mountains, it is most likely the Jaredites traveled by foot parallel to the Zargos Mountains along the Tigris or Euphrates Rivers and right into the Persian Gulf. Map shows Lehi’s voyage to the Promised Land to the Gulf of Mexico and the Jaredite voyage towards the Promised Land arriving probably in Washington State on the West coast.Babylon northward is surrounded by the Taurus Mountains, Armenian Highlands and the Pontic MountainsThis map shows you the Alborz Mountains and the elevation all around the Caspian Sea. This would definitely impede migration and travel from Baghdad or Tehran to the sea.
With the Jaredites in the area of Babylon, any movement to the Steppes or more mountainous areas would require a considerable distance through and over a series of very tall mountains, that have restricted traffic and migration for millennia now. See the solid mass of mountains to the northwest, north, and northeast of Mesopotamia and the home of the Jaredites. In brown text above see the many mountain ranges surrounding Babylon to the North and the East. As you can see above the majority of migration was to the North, and West of Babylon. Some travel went northeast and southwest. I am proposing “that quarter where there never had man been” is most likely towards the south east and the Persian Gulf.
I don’t believe the dating on this specific map as I feel best with JohnPratt.com information. Again, this map shows the incredible amount of migration everywhere except, “that quarter where there never had man been”, as the Lord describes the Jaredite voyage.
Most likely the Jaredites built barges near today’s city of Kuwait just before taking their voyage. “And it came to pass that they did travel in the wilderness, (Baghdad to Persia Gulf 655 Miles) and did build barges, (We aren’t told how many) in which they did cross many waters, (Persian Gulf, Gulf of Oman, Arabian Sea, Laccadive Sea, Bay of Bengal, Andaman Sea, Malacca Strait, South China Sea, and Yellow Sea), directed continually by the hand of the Lord.” Ether 2:6. Italics added.
Once we begin understanding the initial travels of the Jardites from the tower, we can then add pieces to the picture, to understnad the rest of their travels. It makes sense that the Jardites entering the “Empy Quarter” of today’s saudi Arabia lines up nicely with the scripture in ether 2:7 that says, “into that quarter where there never had man been.”
The Deseret Book embroidery kit (Main Picture) shows the sun behind Sugarloaf Mountain and the word Christ situated directly above Mount Logan! It is a symbolic second-leg chiasmus of this site and it invites the youth to be introduced to the imagery in preparation of even greater things!” Anthony George Researcher and Long-Time Resident of Ohio
Chillicothe, OH
The State of Ohio contains a larger number of prehistoric remnants than any other equivalent area in the Mississippi valley. Some have estimated the number of mounds at 10,000 and the enclosures, villages, and caches at around 1,500, making the total number of earthworks in Ohio more than 11,000. Ohio is likely the place the Savior visited the Nephites, spoken of in the Book of Mormon.
“The Great Seal of the State of Ohio, a vision impressed on the founding fathers of Ohio as they were gathered at an all night celebration regarding the newly acquired statehood. The story tells of the excitement at the event as being feverish. The women were gathered on the frontier for the social event of the decade at Adena (Hebraic for Eden or paradise. Also the namesake of the large mound just below the hill which was the namesake of the Adena people) estate, the manor house of of our first senator, Thomas Worthington. The men were giddy and engaged in planning the tasks ahead of them regarding the new government.
Mound City Group, Ohio
Ohio was the first state carved out of the Northwest Territory. Worthington’s estate was significant. The home (designed by Latrobe, the same architect who planned the central portion of the US capitol building) overlooked the Scioto Valley with a backdrop of 7 noteworthy hills to the east and Chillicothe immediately to the south. The land in that valley was part of Worthington’s holdings and included Dunlap Earthworks, Mound City, Shriver Circle, several other circles and mounds. The opposite side of the river included the Ginther mound and ancient village site, the Gartner site, Cedar Bank which is of the exact dimensions of Solomon’s temple, Hopeton Earthworks, and dozens of other mounds. Anyway, back to the celebration…. as the night continued, the attendees were invited to step-out for fresh air. As they did, they walked to the edge of the hill where the house was at and beheld the valley with all I described before them.
The timing was perfect. The sun was just rising in the east over those seven hills. The gathering sensed the moment and realized the spiritual symbolism. The dawning of a new era was being heralded. The Shawnee (who were still allowed at that time in the area for passage, hunting and salt gathering) were asked to leave the area in 1795 and move to Indian(a) Territory. The new stewards of the land were represented by that gathering who witnessed the sunrise. The scene was so impressive that the visage ultimately became the seal for all official state documents for Ohio.
The sun rising in the east, proclaiming a new era, and providing a clue to what was about to happen in Ohio some thirty years later is noteworthy.
The hills depicted on the Great Seal (interesting that we call it a ‘great’ seal) include Sugarloaf to the north and Mount Logan to the south. To these hills many of the ancient earthworks align, even from very far distances. Mound 7 in Mound City is an exact replication of Sugarloaf. Mound 3 is an exact replication of Mount Logan.
The many other details are left out here for the interest of time. Suffice it to say something extremely significant happened here 2000 years ago with these hills and valley being the centerpiece of great attention.
We have spoken a lot about DNA Haplogroup X found in the Great Lakes of North America among the Algonquian and Iroquois nations which matches the Hebrew DNA found in Turkey and Israel. For the past 14 years or more Rod Meldrum has discussed this North American DNA at length.
After many years of study and research I was just made aware of this exciting information on April 17th, 2024 from Betty Red Ant, my wonderful Navajo friend, who had received the link from a heartlander named Thomas Mitchell.
This research was done in 1998 about additional evidence of Haplogroup X among many other Native American Tribes. I asked Rod about this and he said he had already read about it many years ago. I said, “This is HUGE, why haven’t you told me about this before?” He said, “I don’t know” Well I am going to explain how significant this new awareness is about the Hebrew connections between many Native Americans in North America and the anciien Hebrews of the Old World.
The Book of Mormon is an Historical Record.
Rod Meldrum said, “Having a testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and knowing it is true, leaves little doubt that the Book of Mormon is an historical record. Its words are a foundational pillar upon which much of the gospel rests. Its truths are fundamental to our belief in the prophet Joseph Smith and the commencement of the restoration of the gospel. It is not possible that the Book of Mormon could be spiritually true and historically false.
Knowing the book to be spiritually true, its historical account must also be true. Since it is an historical record, then naturally there should be evidences that support it. How are such evidences found? There must be a starting point: a method that begins from a solid foundation of truth upon which to build further understanding that will withstand the tempests and storms of challenge. This DNA section is only one of the many areas of exploration and research that is beginning to unfold the strength of the claims of the Book of Mormon as an historical text.” Rod Meldrum Rediscovering the Book of Mormon Remnant through DNA (Download his complete 180 page book in PDF here)
President Hinckley 2002 Olympics DNA Question
Rod continues, “In Winter of 2002, prior to the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics, a German television reporter had a chance to interview LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley. Previous to this interview, as DNA research was in its infancy, it was shown by DNA results that the people of South and Central America had Asian DNA, not Hebrew. Because of this many in the world were pointing fingers at the Church for lack of evidence of DNA that was Hebrew in Mesoamerica.
Well off course, if the Book of Mormon happened in Mesoamerica, then there would not be any DNA evidence for Hebrew DNA. But the events of the Book of Mormon did happen in North America and there is evidence that Hebrew DNA is present in the Great Lakes area, that is consistent with DNA found in Israel, Turkey and other parts of west Eurasia.
I quote from this interview by the German reporter:
“German Reporter: Now, Mr. President, one of…one question which is a little bit complicated for me to understand, but I heard it and one colleague asked me to ask it. What will be your position when DNA analysis will show that in the history never have been an immigration from Israel to the north…to north America? It could be that the scientists will find out…
President Hinckley: Well, it hasn’t happened. That hasn’t been determined yet. All I can say is that’s speculated. No one really knows the answer to that, not at this point.”
Well, in 2002 DNA had not been determined yet, as the Prophet said. But shortly later we found and continue to find remarkable evidence of Hebrew DNA in North America. The Lord is sharing this wonderful news.”
We have spoken with some Dine’ (Navajo), who share oral traditions speaking of their Hebrew ancestors or Lamanites migrating from Alabama, and Tennesse west to New Mexico and other parts of the western United States as a distinct probability.
Navajo, Sioux, Yakima Haplogroup X- Wow!
On April 18, 2024 I gave a presentation at our Firm Foundation Conference called, “Jaredites Land in America from the Pacific-Ether 2 Explained.” I spoke about the Jaredites landing near Seattle, Washington. I believe there is strong evidence about this you can view my 60 slides and a complete podcast HERE
As I study and now read about the Navajo, Yakima and Nuu-Chah-Nulth and Sioux tribes of Northwest North America I get excited. Could the Hebrew Haplogroup X be found among the Jaredites as well as from the Lehites?
Remember the Brother of Jared had the lineage of Noah and his three sons, Ham, Shem and Japeth. Those Jaredites who arrived as I surmise in Seattle, WA area, likely came from a large descendanccy of Shem (the Priesthood Lineage after the flood), who descended from Peleg, and then Eber (Hebrew), who were the fathers of Abraham in the Old World. Abraham of course was a Hebrew through Eber, as was Joseph of Egypt and Judah through the lineage of Israel. Lehi was a direct descendant of Manasseh through Joseph. This lineage of both the Jaredites and the Lehites would likely be found many places in the Promised Land of North America. The Nephites and Lamanites beginning in Florida, and the Jaredites beginning in Washington State. See Map Above.
I am confident that our father Adam’s original DNA should be found with Noah, Shem, Abraham, and the Tribes of Israel. It would be obvious then, that Hebrew (Eber) blood would have the same markers as the Jaredites Moses, David, and Christ We are just now exploring this information. If this is shown to be true, we could find Haplogroup X in those people from Shem and Eber, and Abraham who may be all over the American Continent, from Alaska, Canada, USA, Messoamerica, and South America. This is fascinating.
From Seattle WA, I am proposing the main group of Jaredites (Called Shem before the flood and Hebrew found after the flood) could likely travel East along the Columbia, Missouri, Mississippi, and Ohio Rivers, to end up in upstate New York. It seems the Jaredites who also had the blood of Japeth, this group may have gone north into Canada and some may have traveled south into the western USA as well. The Jaredites who a portion were descendants of Ham possibly traveled south from Seattle into Mexico and South America. Remeber the Olmecs of Central America resemble the race of Ham as described in Wikepedia.“The Olmecs (/ˈɒlmɛks, ˈoʊl-/) or Olmec were the earliest known major Mesoamerican civilization, flourishing in the modern-day Mexican states of Veracruz and Tabasco from roughly 1200 to 400 BCE during Mesoamerica’s formative period.”
Both civilizations of the Jaredites and Nephites ended at the exact same place, called Ramah by the Jaredites and Cumorah by the Nephites.(Ether 15:11)This DNA evidence of the Navajo and Sioux, has huge possibilities which I am just now exploring.
We are finding the Lamanites or Haplogroup X blood which scientifically is found in the Great Lakes (and in Israel) can be linked to Haplogroup X also found on the west coast of North America with the Ojibway, Navajo and Yakima, and with Kennewick man from Kennewick Washington. An admixture of all these tribes is intriguing and a totally new focus for us.
As you read the condensed version of the article below, just ponder about this exciting new information that is being shared today as the Lord says, “pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.” D&C 121:33. This is exciting.
mtDNA Haplogroup X: An Ancient Link between Europe/Western Asia and North America?
“Our analysis confirmed that haplogroup X is present in both modern Native American and European populations. For the Native Americans, this haplogroupencompasses ∼25% of the Ojibwa, 15% of the Sioux, 11%–13% of the Nuu-Chah-Nulth, 7% of the Navajo, and 5% of the Yakima . Thus, with the exception (see below) of the Na-Dene–speaking Navajo, the distribution of this haplogroup among the Native Americans appears to be restricted to northern Amerindian populations… Since haplogroup X appears to be a pre-Columbian, founding Native American mtDNA lineage, the question remains: Where did this haplogroup originate? Thus far, haplogroup X has not been detected in numerous Asian/Siberian populations…
Its presence in the Navajo but not in other Na-Dene populations suggests that, in a manner similar to that characterizing some nuclear-gene markers (Schell and Blumberg 1988), the Navajo have acquired haplogroup X through admixture with northern Amerindian populations. This could have occurred during or after the recent migration (1,000 years ago) that brought the ancestors of the Navajo from the Athapaskan homeland (Alaska and western Canada) to the southwestern United States (Haskell 1987). An Amerindian origin of the Navajo haplogroup X mtDNAs is also supported by the fact that the Navajo sequences are very similar, if not identical, to those observed in some Ojibwa (fig. 1). Also, the homogeneity of the Navajo sequences (table 1 and fig. 1) suggests that the Navajo acquired haplogroup X very recently…
Then it is possible that this mtDNA was brought to Beringia/America by the eastward migration of an ancestral Caucasian population, of which no trace has so far been found in the mtDNA gene pool of modern Siberian/eastern Asian populations… Haplogroup X is remarkable in that it has not been found in Asians, including Siberians, suggesting that it may have come to the Americas via a Eurasian migration. ..”
[Editors Note: National Geographic also has a very good article about West Eurasians (Israel) with the same Haplogroup X DNA as the Native Americans near the Great Lakes HERE!
New York is one of the most archaeologically rich sites in America. Human bones, battles, artifacts, copper, steel, pearls, roads, forts, mounds, and a bloddy hill. The incredible amount of animal bones including Mastodons and Mammoths I discuss below,match up with the Book of Mormon timeline and are also very abundant as shown below in this map, taken from “Distribution of Pleistocene Mammals in New york State” Fisher 1955, and “The Archaeology of New York State” William A. Ritchie 1965.
ANCIENT NEPHITE-LAMANITE BATTLEGROUNDS
“The battles in described as often having culminated in the destruction of previous, superior Native cultures which had taken final refuge in forts at the tops of hills, including the general region of the hill known to Mormons as Cumorah. In the town of Camillus, in the same county of Onondaga . . . there are two ancient forts . . . One is on a very high hill, and its area covers about three acres. . . . The ditch was deep and the eastern wall ten feet high. In the centre was a large lime stone of an irregular shape.” A Memoir on the Antiquities of the Western Parts of the State of New-York, Addressed to the Honourable Samuel L. Mitchill, a Vice-President of the Literary and Philosophical Society of New York . . . by Dewitt Clinton . . . Read Before the Society November 13th, 1817 De Witt Clinton (1769-1828)
Bloody Hill NY
“Pompey in Onondaga County, a town covering upwards of five hundred acres must have contained a population greatly transcending all our ideas of credibility . . . This town was on elevated ground, . . . and was well calculated for defense. . . . There are three old forts distant about eight miles from each other, and forming a triangle which encloses the town; . . . and they were, in all probability, erected to cover the town and to protect the inhabitants from the attacks of an enemy. . . . On the line of the north side, the town was probably stormed. There are graves on each side close to the precipice; sometimes five or six persons were thrown promiscuously into the same grave. If the invaders had been repulsed, the inhabitants would have interred the killed in the usual places; but from the circumstance of there being graves near the ravine and in the village, I am induced to believe that the town was taken. (noting ‘gun barrels, axes, hoes and swords . . . all over these grounds’) The traditions of the Indians agree in some measure with the French relations. They represent that their forefathers had several bloody battles with the French . . . There is a hill in Pompey, which the Indians will not visit, and which they call Bloody Hill. . . . The old fortifications were erected previous to European intercourse. The Indians are ignorant by whom they were made; and in the wars which took place in this country, it is probable that they were occupied as strong holds by the belligerents; and it is likely that the ruins of European works of a different construction may be found… it is remarkable that our ancient forts resemble the old British and Danish. The Bloody Hill site dated by modern archaeology to ca. 1420 A.D. has been excavated carefully in modern times, yielding comparatively superior ceramic artifacts. Significantly more Native sites are now recognized in Pompey, beyond the few which [DeWitt] Clinton knew or was able to visit.” (James A. Tuck, 104-119) Mormon Parallels: A Bibliographic Source 2014 Rick Grunder page 403. Map from “Onondaga Iroquois Pre History A Study in Settlement Archaeology” James A. Tuck 1971 page 20
Onondaga, Joseph Smith’s Indians?
“Onondaga was a name that Joseph would have heard frequently in the Indian lore which B. H. Roberts felt must have influenced Joseph during his early days in Palmyra… Indeed, in order to reach Palmyra in company with Lucy Mack Smith and his siblings when they emigrated from Vermont, Joseph had to traverse the important township of Onondaga, through which the original Genesee and Seneca Turnpikes still run today…” Mormon Parallels: A Bibliographic Source 2014 Rick Grunder pg 1125
LAMANITE SETTLEMENTS
I share 5 mounds dated from 700 to 1100 AD called SACKETT, GENEVA, LAWSON, MORROW, & VINE VALLEY Mounds. These are a few of the mounds around the Cumorah area that show the Lamanites settlements were possible after the final battles could be all around this location. See above map.
Complete mastodon jaw unearthed in New York after homeowner spots teeth in backyard
By Emily Mae Czachor / CBS News
“A complete mastodon jaw was discovered in the backyard of a home in New York’s Hudson Valley, marking the state’s first such find in more than a decade, officials announced this week.
The Stockton, New York, homeowner initially spotted two teeth hidden in the fronds of a plant on their property and proceeded to uncover two more teeth buried inches underground, the New York State Museum said. Staff from the museum, which is based in Albany and has an archaeological research department, and SUNY Orange launched an investigation at the property.
A complete mastodon jaw was unearthed from the yard of a home in New York state.New York State Museum
Their excavation unearthed additional fossils, including a full, well-preserved adult jaw and fragments of rib and toe bones that once belonged to a mastodon — ancient giants that existed during the Ice Age and became extinct some 10,000 years ago. The term refers to a group of massive elephant-like species, like the mammoth.
“When I found the teeth and examined them in my hands, I knew they were something special and decided to call in the experts,” said the homeowner in a statement to the New York State Museum. “I’m thrilled that our property has yielded such an important find for the scientific community.”
Excavators discovered fragments of the mastodon’s toe and rib bones in addition to the jaw.New York State Museum
Remnants of mastodons have been discovered in New York before. According to the museum, more than 150 fossils of these prehistoric creatures have been documented to date statewide, with around one-third of them coming from Orange County, where the latest bones were found.
But experts said the findings offer an opportunity to learn something new.
“This discovery is a testament to the rich paleontological history of New York and the ongoing efforts to understand its past,” said Robert Feranec, a research director and curator at the New York State Museum whose work centers on ice age animals, in a statement. “Fossils are resources that provide remarkable snapshots of the past, allowing us to not only reconstruct ancient ecosystems but also provide us with better context and understanding of the current world around us.”
The mastodon fossils will undergo carbon dating and analysis to determine the creature’s age, diet and habitat while it was alive, the museum said. After that analysis and subsequent preservation work are complete, the bones will be featured on public display in 2025.”
THE NAME MAHONRI MORIANCUMR “While residing in Kirtland, Elder Reynolds Cahoon had a son born to him. One day when President Joseph Smith was passing his door, he called the Prophet in and asked him to bless and name the baby. Joseph did so and gave the boy the name of Mahonri Moriancumer. When he had finished the blessing he laid the child on the bed, and turning to Elder Cahoon he said, ‘The name I have given your son is the name of the brother of Jared; the Lord has just shown [or revealed] it to me.’ Elder William F. Cahoon … heard the Prophet make this statement to his father; and this was the first time the name of the brother of Jared was known in the Church in this dispensation” (George Reynolds, “The Jaredites,”Juvenile Instructor, 1 May 1892, 282).
We have all heard the story about the Brother of Jared building the eight barges to sail to the promised land. Because of the faith of the Brother of Jared he was able to see the Lord Jesus Christ as a pre-mortal being. The Brother of Jared asked the Lord to touch sixteen stones so they could have light in each end of the eight barges. That means the Brother of Jared had 16 total stones, correct? Well, yes and no!
THE LORD TOUCHES HOW MANY STONES? 16 for the Brother of Jared “…did molten out of a rock sixteen small stones; and they were white and clear, even as transparent glass; and he did carry them in his hands upon the top of the mount, and cried again unto the Lord… the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord…” Ether 3:1,6
Did you also know that the Brother of Jared touched an additional two stones to be used by Joseph Smith when Moroni appeared to him in 1827? By understanding this, you will realize how critical it was for Joseph Smith to use these two stones in the rims of a bow to translate the plates, and Joseph Smith did not use some old seer stone he found digging in some well. The Lord knew the beginning from the end.
TWO CLEAR STONES EXISTED FROM MAHONRI TO JOSEPH OVER 3,800 YEARS APX. 2,000 BC to 1827 AD
2 Stones for Joseph Smith
Brother of Jared
“And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write. And it came to pass that the Lord commanded him that he should seal up the two stones which he had received, and show them not, until the Lord should show them unto the children of men.” Ether 3:23,28
Ether 3:21 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt not suffer these things which ye have seen and heard to go forth unto the world, until the time cometh that I shall glorify my name in the flesh; wherefore, ye shall treasure up the things which ye have seen and heard, and show it to no man.
22 And behold, when ye shall come unto me, ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read.
23 And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write.
24 For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.
25 And when the Lord had said these words, he showed unto the brother of Jared all the inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be; and he withheld them not from his sight, even unto the ends of the earth.
26 For he had said unto him in times before, that if he would believe in him that he could show unto him all things—it should be shown unto him; therefore the Lord could not withhold anything from him, for he knew that the Lord could show him all things.
27 And the Lord said unto him: Write these things and seal them up; and I will show them in mine own due time unto the children of men.
28 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded him that he should seal up the two stones which he had received, and show them not, until the Lord should show them unto the children of men.
Two Stones of King Mosiah
“The Prophet Joseph Smith used the same Urim and Thummim that was “given to the brother of Jared upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face” (D&C 17:1). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote a brief history regarding the Urim and Thummim:“King Mosiah possessed ‘two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow,’ called by the Nephites Interpreters, with which he translated the Jaredite record [Mosiah 28:11–14], and these were handed down from generation to generation for the purposes of interpreting languages. How Mosiah came into possession of these two stones or Urim and Thummim the record does not tell us, more than to say that it was a ‘gift from God’ [Mosiah 21:28]. Mosiah had this gift or Urim and Thummim before the people of Limhi discovered the record of Ether. They may have been received when the ‘large stone’ was brought to Mosiah with engravings upon it, which he interpreted by the ‘gift and power of God’ [Omni 1:20–21]. They may have been given to him, or to some other prophet before his day, just as the Brother of Jared received them—from the Lord. “That the Urim and Thummim, or two stones, given to the Brother of Jared were those in the possession of Mosiah appears evident from Book of Mormon teachings. The Brother of Jared was commanded to seal up his writings of the vision he had when Christ appeared to him, so that they could not be read by his people. … The Urim and Thummim were also sealed up so that they could not be used for the purpose of interpreting those sacred writings of this vision, until such time as the Lord should grant to man to interpret them. When they were to be revealed, they were to be interpreted by the aid of the same Urim and Thummim [Ether 3:21–28]. …“Joseph Smith received with the breastplate and the plates of the Book of Mormon, the Urim and Thummim, which were hid up by Moroni to come forth in the last days as a means by which the ancient record might be translated, which Urim and Thummim were given to the Brother of Jared [D&C 17:1]” (Doctrines of Salvation, 3:223–25). https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual/chapter-50-ether-1-5?lang=eng
THE LARGE JAREDITE BREASTPLATE AND GLASSES
See Painting Below: Lucy Mack Smith said, “…he handed me the breastplate spoken of in his history. It was wrapped in a thin muslin handkerchief, so thin that I could see the glistening metal, and ascertain its proportions without any difficulty. It was concave on one side and convex on the other, and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders, and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips… After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummim.” Joseph Smith, The Prophet And His Progenitors For Many Generations by Lucy Smith “This instrument could, however, be detached from the breastplate …The instrument was too large for Joseph’s eyes; they must have been used by larger men…”(Saints Herald, March 9, 1882, p. 258; Interview with William P. Smith).
Lucy Mack Smith sees the Glasses and Breastplate. by Anne Marie Oborn
Oliver’s Testimony
“Two Stones, Fastened to a Breastplate” JSH 1:35
“I wrote with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, ‘holy interpreters.’ I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the ‘holy interpreters‘” (as cited in Smith, Restoration of All Things, 113).
William Smith’s Testimony
William Smith explained that the Prophet used the Urim and Thummim attached to the breastplate by a rod that held the seer stones set in the rims of a bow before his eyes. “The instrument caused a strain on Joseph’s eyes, and he sometimes resorted to covering his eyes with a hat to exclude the light in part” (Smith, Rod of Iron 1, 3 [February 1924]: 7).
Joseph Fielding McConkie (Professor of Ancient Scripture, BYU) and Craig J. Ostler (Assistant Professor of Church History and Doctrine, BYU) said,
“The testimony of David Whitmer simply does not accord with the divine pattern. If Joseph Smith translated everything that is now in the Book of Mormon without using the gold plates, we are left to wonder why the plates were necessary in the first place. It will be remembered that possession of the plates placed the Smith family in considerable danger, causing them a host of difficulties. If the plates were not part of the translation process, this would not have been the case. It also leaves us wondering why the Lord directed the writers of the Book of Mormon to make a duplicate record of the plates of Lehi. This provision which compensated for the loss of the 116 pages would have served no purpose either. Further, we would be left to wonder why it was necessary for Moroni to instruct Joseph each year for four years before he was entrusted with the plates. We would also wonder why it was so important for Moroni to show the plates to the three witnesses, including David Whitmer. And why did the Lord have the Prophet show the plates to the eight witnesses? Why all this flap and fuss if the Prophet didn’t really have the plates and if they were not used in the process of translation? What David Whitmer is asking us to believe is that the Lord had Moroni seal up the plates and the means by which they were to be translated hundreds of years before they would come into Joseph Smith’s possession and then decided to have the Prophet use a seer stone found while digging a well so that none of these things would be necessary after all. Is this, we would ask, really a credible explanation of the way the heavens operate? When asked how the labor of translation was accomplished, the Prophet declined to answer, saying, “It was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon” (Cannon and Cook, Far West Record, 23). Surely we do not look to the world or the understanding of the world for an answer. We would expect to find that understanding only as we come to understand in greater measure the operations of the Spirit of revelation.” The Process of Translating the Book of Mormon by Joseph Fielding McConkie (Professor of Ancient Scripture, BYU) and Craig J. Ostler (Assistant Professor of Church History and Doctrine, BYU)
What was actually inside the Stone Box? Did you know about the THREE-Stone Pillars?
“This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph… I must not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillars were not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstances you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.” Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835
Most members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints likely know that the Brother of Jared in the Book of Ether, has the actual name of Mahonri Moriancumer, which name was given by Joseph Smith in a blessing to Brother Cahoon’s new child. That story comes from the journal of William F. Cahoon, which I share below.
The Meaning of the Name Mahonri Moriancumer
From a General Discussions on the blog Mormon Dialogue and Discussion Board, from LDS Watchman Posted December 5, 2020, we read.
“LDS Hebrew scholar Robert Smith provided the following commentary on the meaning of the name Mahonri Moriancumer. The meaning of this name is a powerful proof that the Book of Mormon is true.
Jared was the fourth son of Joktan(See more at the bottom under Jared Descendants), but head of his own family, and his people consisting of other families including his brother and his family and friends. Strangely, we are not told the name of the brother. Joktan had 13 sons who are named in the Bible; Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, Obal, Abimael, Sheba, Ophir, Havilah and Jobab. There is not a Mahonri Moriancumer among them.
…the brother is indeed one of the twelve brothers of Jerah or Jared, but that this new name was given him later as a description of the things he did. I will discuss this below…
There is no revelation giving this name (Mahonri Moriancumer) and the only record that I know of is in the journal of William F. Cahoonwho tells that one day the prophet was passing by the house of his father, Elder Reynolds Cahoon, in Kirtland. His father called the prophet in and asked him to bless and name a new son just born to them. Joseph blessed the baby and gave him the name Mahonri Moriancumer. When he finished, he turned to Elder Cahoon and said, “The name I have given your son is the name of the brother of Jared.” … at that far off time, men were not given two names. There is no record of it ever happening in those days and for all the ensuing centuries up to the time of Christ…
The brother of Jared is called that more than fifty times in the book of Ether and never once named. He is the only important figure not named. Why, we might ask, should this be the case? The answer is in the name itself. The only reason Moroni would not write his name is because it is too large and unwieldy. In addition, there is no symbol in reformed Egyptian that would give the name. Moroni would have had to invent a symbol for this long name and he did not want to do it. Instead he used a symbol they had that was used before or else he wrote it in Hebrew.
The name Jared was a common name used in Israel… There are fewer than 300 names in the Book of Mormon apart from the book of Ether. But there were millions of people who lived in the 1000 year history of the Nephites. It is obvious that the name Jared would have been, if not common, at least used among them. There would therefore be a symbol for this name and a symbol for brother of Jared. It would be concise and easy to engrave. Since there was no symbol for Mahonri Moriancumer, it would require writing out this long name in Hebrew. To avoid doing that, Moroni simply used the symbol for brother of Jared or possibly wrote it out in Hebrew. In Hebrew, brother of Jared has only three syllables. In English, the name has eight syllables, which is more than double the space. This alone proves that the brother of Jared had an unusually long name…
The name is a descriptive title as are most names in Hebrew. They denote some characteristic or hope for the person named. It could be that this man was indeed one of Jared’s blood brothers, but his name was changed to reflect these characteristics. He was a man of great faith and leadership. He spoke with the Lord personally, and about whom the Lord said he had never seen such great faith. It is very likely, therefore, that the people of Jared gave him this description because of the mighty works he did.
It is sometimes difficult to figure out what a name means because it is put together from parts of other words to form a new one. In the case of Book of Mormon names, we do not have the original Hebrew spelling. If Joseph’s spelling of the name is pretty accurate, then we can transliterate it to see what it means. The first name is pretty easy, as far as the parts go. Mahmeans something, what, how, who or which. Of course you recognize the word “on” which means lightand is also metaphor for the Savior. This is part of the word Tzion in Hebrew, meaning holy people of the Lord and also the place where they reside. We spell it Zion today.On was the city of the sun where the holy people dwelt, so by link, “on” in this word means the same thing, Zion, but in a different place. Rimeans water originally. Today it is used to mean moisture or dampness, but it also means irrigation. We can put these together and get something likeWho [provides or leads to] light [on the] water. There is double meaning in this as you can see. He provided the illuminated stones that provided light in the boats. He also led them across the water to the land of Zion, although they never had a Zion civilization.
The last name is a little more difficult, but we can understand it. “Mor” means to change or perform a wonder. The word “ian” is a conjunction and I know of no other meaning. It means “in order to” or “for the purpose of.” The root “cum,” pronounced “coom” is a common verb meaning “to raise up” or “to rise.” “To raise up” is a phrase we know from other scripture which means to save. The suffix –er indicates instrumentality. I think this is just the English translation of the suffix although there is a similar one in Hebrew.
Putting the parts together, we get a description of “Someone who performs wonders in order to lift, raise up, or save.”We can see from these descriptive terms the very things that the brother of Jared did while assisting the people to prepare for and cross the ocean. Because he did all these things, one short name was not enough to describe him and this was a long description rather than his given name. We only have the English spelling, as I said, but if the sounds are the same, the way I have rendered the names is probably very near the original and correct meaning.
Dissecting the name Mahonri Moriancumer
Mah
means something, what, how, who or which.
On
which means light and is also metaphor for the Savior., or Zion or City of the Sun
Ri
means water originally, can be moisture or dampness, but it also means irrigation
Mahonri
Who [provides or leads to] light [on the] water.
Mor
to change or perform a wonder
Ian
It means “in order to” or “for the purpose of.
Cum
meaning “to raise up” or “to rise
Er
indicates instrumentality. I think this is just the English translation of the suffix
Moriancumer
Someone who performs wonders in order to lift, raise up, or save.
So, the name of Mahonri Moriancumer may mean:
He who leads to light on the water, and someone who performs wonders in order to lift, raise up, or save.
A very realistic name isn’t it?
LDS Watchman continues, “This description is perhaps the biggest proof of the authenticity of the name, or more accurately, his title, because it fits almost exactly with what he did and who he was. He was a great prophet and performed wonders and miracles in getting the people across the water.
There is one final proof of the authenticity of this name… when the Jaredites came to the place where they settled for four years, they named the place Moriancumer... The area was undoubtedly named after the brother of Jared. He was the spiritual leader of the people and a great prophet.[He likely held the Priesthood See Blog Here]Why was the place not called Mahonri Moriancumer? As I showed above, Mahonri has a different meaning and the brother of Jared has not done these acts at the time they are at these waters prior to leaving. This title has to do with his providing light to cross the water. [On the Pacific Ocean from China to Seattle? or 344 Days See Blog Here]. LDS Watchman continues, “They have not built the [See second Set of Barges, as you read Ether 2:16 which says, “Go to work and build, after the manner of barges which ye have hitherto built“] boats or submarines yet, so this descriptive name would not have been given him until later. This, again, is a very important point. Had Joseph been making the name up, he would have added the first name at this point since he probably did not know what they meant... By only using the second name, again Joseph gives us a powerful evidence that the book is true, that he is a prophet and that his translation is correct and accurate.” LDS Watchman at link here: https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/73357-the-meaning-of-the-name-mahonri-moriancumer[Quotes added by Editor]
An Additional Possible Interpretation of Mahonri’s Name above by David Stewart in “Jaredites: The First Americans”
Eber or (Hebrew) Descendants
Joktan and Peleg, sons of Eber would have to both be Hebrew through Eber.(Hebrew)
Jared or Jerah is the name of one of the twelve sons of Joktan.
The Brother of Jerah or Jared is Mahonri Moriancumer Who would have to be one of the names or brothers in the picture left, of Jerah or Jared.
Joktan would be considered the father of the Arabic people. Also later Abraham has a son named Isaac where the Saviors descendance come, and Abraham had a son named Ishmael who was also the forefather of the Arab Nations.
Shem’s line through his son Arpachshad is the one that leads to Abraham (Abram) and Israel. This makes Shem the ancestor of figures such as King David and Jesus Christ. See Chart Below:
For more research material I suggest you read from the link below. Jaredites: The First Americans by David Stewart. I don’t believe all of it, but he has some great information’
David Stewart says, “The original inhabitants of North America arrived near what is now Los Angeles in eight barges in approximately 1676 BC. They lived almost exclusively in North America for exactly thirty-two generations, after which time they annihilated themselves, all but two men, in a civil war, in about 600 B.C. The history of the Jaredites is described in the Book of Ether , and in other records of the Jaredite civilization that will be translated as time permits. The Jaredite history is of particular importance as it serves as a warning to all people. Mormon recorded: “it is expedient that all people should know the things which are written in this account” ( Mosiah 28:11 ).” Continued at the link below. https://data.docslib.org/img/b1b9ffa53978023f5ddede70d1ebf147-1.webp
Did the Brother of Jared Hold the Priesthood?
I believe the Jaredites are a mixture of Ham, Shem and Japeth who were the sons of Noah. Stewart says the Jaredites were all from Ham which I don’t agree with. Ham was cursed to hold the Priesthood even though the Jaredites including Ham, Shem and Japeth were a very righteous group. See Abraham 1:21-17
I share with you that I believe the Jaredites likely landed near Seattle Washington(See my Blog Here), not like David Stewart says above, that they may have landed in Los Angeles area. Although that is definitely possible, my best estimate using the natural ocean current and finding all the artifacts dated to the Jaredites timeline in the State of Washington, they would have arrived near Seattle first. From Seattle is seems plausible that many who were from the Jaredite clan who were more from Ham, may have migrated down into the area of southwestern United State and the Ancient Olmecs in Mesoamerica. Likely the Japethites traveled from Seattle northeast into Alaska, Canada and to eastern North America.The Priesthood lineage of Shem likely traveled the Columbia River east to the Missouri River to the Ohio River and up the Mississippi Valley into northern New York. Any mixture could have migrated into any of these three areas, but it makes sense similar races and tribes may have mostly stayed together.
Remember the chosen Jaredites and likely most were from Shem who had the Priesthood, would end up in New York at hill Ramah at a battle that ended their civilization, because of wickedness just at the Nephites. Ramah was the exact same hill as Cumorah: See Ether 15:11
I believe the Jaredites who were blessed with keeping the Adamic Language likely had the Priesthood. Bruce R. McConkie said, “These promises of God to the Jaredites contain the essential elements of the everlasting covenant detailed later to Father Abraham and to every covenant people. These elements include priesthood, posterity, and a land of inheritance” Bruce McConkie, A New Witness 505
“The book of Moses described the language of Adam as “pure and undefiled”. It is intimately connected with the “Priesthood,which was in the beginning, [and] shall be in the end of the world also.” MOSES 6:5 Thomas R. Valletta, “Jared and His Brother,” in Fourth Nephi, From Zion to Destruction, ed. Monte S. Nyman and Charles Tate Jr. (BYU Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center
“The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “All the prophets had Melchizedek priesthood.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 181)
Yes! The Jaredites retained the Adamic Language, which relates to the Priesthood. Ether was their last Prophet and Mahonri Moriancumer would have the Priesthood. This means the Brother of Jared would have to be from the loins of Shem (Who likely was also the same person called the King of Salem or Melchizedek Blog Here:), which is the established Priesthood Lineage through all of time. The Brother of Jared could not have been from Ham or he could not hold the Priesthood. I believe Ham, Shem and Japeth all three held what is called a Patriarchal Priesthood (Father to Son), but only Shem and his descendant’s were ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood. See my blog here about the difference between the Patriarchal and the Melchizedek Priesthood.
From, “The Jaredites: A Case Study in Following the Brethren”, Douglas Brinley says, “A distinguishing feature of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the principle of continuous revelation: God speaks to His children through prophet-servants today as well as in former times (see Amos 3:7). The principle of revelation separates Latter-day Saints from all other religions, for our claim of administering the true gospel is based on this premise: In 1820 God called a young man to the prophetic office and subsequently sent eight angels to restore the gospel and priesthood keys that enable men and women to qualify for exaltation. Moroni restored the gospel in the form of a set of plates that contain the everlasting gospel. John the Baptist; Peter, James, and John; Moses, Elias, and Elijah restored priesthood keys for the salvation and exaltation of God’s children. President John Taylor explained that true religion has a heavenly connection:
“A good many people, and those professing Christians, will sneer at the idea of present revelation. Whoever heard of true religion without communication with God? To me the thing is the most absurd thing that the human mind could conceive of. I do not wonder, when the people generally reject the principle of present revelation, that skepticism and infidelity prevail to such an alarming extent. I do not wonder that so many men treat religion with contempt, and regard it as something not worth the attention of intelligent beings, for without revelation religion is a mockery and a farce. If I can not have a religion that will lead me to God, and place me in rapport with him, and unfold to my mind the principles of immortality and eternal life, I want nothing to do with it.” John Taylor, in Journal of Discourses (London: Latter-day Saints’ Book Depot, 1854–86), 6:371
I believe it is essential for those who guide the Church at all times in history, from Adam until today, have had this Highest Priesthood and the Jaredites would likely have it as well.
Understanding Priesthood
As it says Joseph may have translated a portion of the Kinderhook Plates printed again in the Times and Seasons, “I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.” (Then followed a reprint of material from the Times and Seasons article.) Deseret News Sept 3, 1856
So Pharaoh, king of Egypt apparently received his Kingdom, but we know from the scriptures that Ham’s offspring could not hold the Priesthood as we read here:
Abraham About Priesthood
You will learn more as you contemplate the scripture about Ham and the Priesthood in Abraham 1:22-27 comparing scripture to the possible translation from Joseph Smith.
“Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.
The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.
Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;” Abraham 1:21-27
It seems in this scripture that Noah gave his three sons a Patriarchal Priesthood, which was simply a blessing all worthy fathers receive simply as being a father. In other words each worthy father has the keys to receive personal revelation and to guide their families in righteousness. However the Ordination of the Higher Priesthood could only be given by the laying on of hands from one who has that Higher Priesthood, called the Melchizedek Priesthood.
Did the Brother of Jared Hold the Priesthood?
I share with you that I believe the Jaredites likely landed near Seattle Washington. I also believe the Jaredites who were blessed with keeping the Adamic Language likely had the Priesthood. Bruce R. McConkie said, “These promises of God to the Jaredites contain the essential elements of the everlasting covenant detailed later to Father Abraham and to every covenant people. These elements include priesthood, posterity, and a land of inheritance”Bruce McConkie, A New Witness 505
Yes! The Jaredites retained the Adamic Language, which relates to the Priesthood. Ether was their last Prophet and Mahonri Moriancumer would have the Priesthood.
Why Did Jared Ask His Brother to Pray Instead of Praying Himself?
Brother of Jared
Jared and his brother lived at the time of the tower of Babel in the Old World. They led a group of seemingly righteous people away from the tower and across the sea to the American continent, establishing what we know as the Jaredite civilization. It seems natural that many people from all three sons of Noah, Ham, Shem, and Japeth would be amongst those people. From the beginning of their story, we hear about Jared repeatedly asking his brother (Mahonri Moriancumer which Joseph Smith said was his name from a blessing Joseph gave), to petition the Lord on his behalf:
“Cry unto the Lord, that he will not confound us that we may not understand our words” (Ether 1:34).
“Cry again unto the Lord, and it may be that he will turn away his anger from them who are our friends, that he confound not their language” (Ether 1:36).
“Go and inquire of the Lord whether he will drive us out of the land, and if he will drive us out of the land, cry unto him whither we shall go” (Ether 1:38).
Jared was apparently the first person to identify problems among the Jaredites and sought a solution. He may have had a sense of how the prayers were likely to be answered. (“Who knoweth but the Lord will carry us forth into a land which is choice above all the earth?” he asked.) His brother was “highly favored of the Lord,” which suggests that Jared thought they had a better chance of receiving a favorable response if his brother was the one doing the asking. I believe it was likely that Mahonri was the Prophet who had the Highest Order of the Priesthood, so Mahonri was entitled to receive revelation for his people. Jared could receive personal revelation for his family, but not for the entire church of the Jaredites.
It seems The brother of Jared (Mahonri) approached the Lord in an attitude much faith and humility, as he was the Priesthood leader who made requests on behalf of the Church. (“Touch these stones, O Lord, with thy finger…that they may shine forth in darkness.” “Show thyself unto me.”) He was uncommonly fearless and full of Faith as Mahonri was not held back from seeing the entire Sprit personage of our Savior in the Pre-Existence.
I am not saying that people have to hold the priesthood in order to see the Savior, as we know, Joseph Smith saw the Father and Son before he had received the priesthood as well. It makes sense that Mahonri was the Priesthood Leader of the Jaredites.
Our Own Revelation
The Lord told Joseph Smith in about 1831 that some people are blessed to know that Jesus is the Christ, while others are simply blessed “to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful” (D&C 46:14). But how will some receive eternal life? By understanding God for themselves. (See John 17:3.) Moses said, “Would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!” (Numbers 11:29) Jeremiah said there would be a time when no one would challenge other people to know the God, “for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them” (Jeremiah 31:34). President Thomas S. Monson said, “It is essential for you to have your own testimony…, for the testimonies of others will carry you only so far” (“The Power of the Book of Mormon,” April 2017). And our Prophet Russell M. Nelson said, “I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that ‘if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge’” (“Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives,” General Conference, April 2018).
In this way it makes sense that Jared likely had his own personal revelations on many matters, but only Mahonri had the “keys” to the priesthood to receive revelation for all people of the church.
The Language of Adam Connected to the Priesthood and all Prophets have the Melchizedek Priesthood
“The book of Moses described the language of Adam as “pure and undefiled”. It is intimately connected with the “Priesthood,which was in the beginning, [and] shall be in the end of the world also.” MOSES 6:5 Thomas R. Valletta, “Jared and His Brother,” in Fourth Nephi, From Zion to Destruction, ed. Monte S. Nyman and Charles Tate Jr. (BYU Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center
“The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “All the prophets had Melchizedek priesthood.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 181)As D&C 84:17 explains, Melchizedek priesthood is the presiding authority which “continueth in the church of God in all generations.” There can be no church organization or full administration without it. This system held Moses through Malachi. Interestingly, Lehi held Melchizedek priesthood and keys sufficient to lead his family to a promised land with fully functioning temples and no Aaronic or preparatory priesthood. That he, Jeremiah, and Ezekial were quorum associated seems likely.” Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood Operation From Moses to Malachi By Vivian McConkie Adams · July 5, 2022
When Joseph Smith said above, “All the prophets had Melchizedek priesthood”, wouldn’t that include Mahonri Moriancumer? I think it would. How could the Jaredites be a blessed people on the same land of America as Lehi was on, without having the Higher Priesthood to guide his people? We know the last survivors at Ramah were Coriantumr and the Prophet Ether. Ether may have even remained on the earth at that time to help the Nephites, who knows?
Moroni recorded this last quote about the 24 Jaredite Plates. “Now the last words which are written by Ether are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am saved in the kingdom of God. Amen.” Ether 15:34
We also know that Coriantumr was found by the Nephites and Mulekites as we read here: “And Coriantumr was discovered by the people of Zarahemla; and he dwelt with them for the space of nine moons.” Omni 1:21
So it is possible that either Coriantumr or Ether had the Priesthood during the time of the Nephites, but it would also make sense that Mosiah in Zarahemla had the Keys for that Priesthood among the Nephite Church.
About the Name Mahonri Moriancumer
“In an 1835 letter Oliver Cowdery parenthetically gives the name of the brother of Jared as “Moriancumer,” which appears in the Book of Ether in the Book of Mormon only as a place name. A later account describes an 1834 statement by Joseph Smith in which he said that the brother of Jared’s name had been revealed to him as “Mahonri Moriancumer”:
While residing in Kirtland Elder Reynolds Cahoon had a son born to him. One day when President Joseph Smith was passing his door he called the Prophet in and asked him to bless and name the baby. Joseph did so and gave the boy the name of Mahonri Moriancumer. When he had finished the blessing he laid the child on the bed, and turning to Elder Cahoon he said, the name I have given your son is the name of the Brother of Jared; the Lord has just shown [or revealed] it to me. Elder William F. Cahoon, who was standing near, heard the Prophet make this statement to his father; and this was the first time the name of the brother of Jared was known in the Church in this dispensation.” Wikipedia
Where did the Jaredites Land?
In a video I did online here: bookofmormonevidence.org/jaredites, I will share with you my details of why I believe the Jaredites Landed near Seattle and why I believe the Jaredites vey likely had the Priesthood after the Order of the Son of God which today we call the Melchizedek Priesthood.
I haven’t determine if these plates are authentic or a hoax. Because there are many scholars and historians who believe these plates to be a hoax, I tend to believe more readily, that the Kinderhook plates are very possibly authentic. I feel at times when there are new or old ideas or information that comes forward, many people want to dismiss it as it does not conform with their internal thinking so they dismiss it out of hand.
The Kinderhook plates have been controversial ever since 1843. Apologists and critics have debated the historical facts and extrinsic evidence for many years now.
Below is a quote from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint’s website, that the historians who likely wrote this article, believe the plates are not authentic. We do however know that Joseph Smith and other Saints visited the Kinderhook mound as it does exist as is recorded in Church History along with the Enon Mound and the Zelph Mound. Many historians don’t believe the Zelph Mound story either, so it is up to you to decide.
“In 1843, a group of men unearthed six bell-shaped brass plates about three inches in height from an American Indian burial mound near Kinderhook, Illinois. The plates contained symbols resembling an ancient script, and one member of the group thought the artifacts appeared well suited for Joseph Smith to translate. Accounts suggest the discovery intrigued Joseph Smith and other Latter-day Saints in Illinois, but no translated text resulted from this short-lived excitement.
One of those present when the plates were unearthed later reported that he had learned the whole episode was a prank. Wilbur Fugate admitted that he, Robert Wiley, and a local blacksmith forged the plates and deposited them in the burial mound the night before the discovery. Chemical and metallurgical analysis of the one surviving plate confirms the artifact was not an ancient production. Moreover, the characters on the plates do not match any known language and were likely invented by Fugate and Wiley.
Contemporaneous sources say very little about Joseph Smith’s encounter with the Kinderhook plates, which occurred over a span of just a few days in 1843. Joseph apparently examined the plates and, according to his clerk William Clayton, remarked that they contained “the history of … a descendant of Ham through the loins of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” Joseph evidently did not attempt a revelatory translation as he had done with the Book of Mormon plates, but rather appears to have compared the symbols on the Kinderhook plates with other ancient artifacts in his possession. One symbol on the plates closely matches a glyph on the Egyptian papyri Joseph translated in Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph’s previous translation of this glyph mentions a descendant of Ham through the lineage of the pharaohs.
Whether Joseph suspected the forgery, thought of attempting a revelatory translation but experienced a “stupor of thought,” or merely took a scholarly interest in the purported ancient writings (like other amateur linguists of the time) remains unconfirmed by historical accounts. Whatever he thought of the plates, he quickly lost interest in them.” https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/kinderhook-plates?lang=eng
Of course this quote above is an opinion and not based on facts. However when the historians of this article say Joseph Smith “suspected the forgery” or “thought of attempting a revelatory translation” or “experienced a stupor of thought” or “merely took a scholarly interest in the purported ancient writings” and these historians emphasize that “like other amateur linguists of the time” Joseph’s findings are “unconfirmed by historical accounts” and they also say that, “Whatever he (Joseph) thought of the plates, he quickly lost interest in them.”
How about my conjecture here? I say, what if Joseph did translate a portion of the Kinderhook plates and what if they are correct? What if Joseph Smith has no responsibility to let others know of his Prophetic intensions or powers he possessed, and these historians only want to suggest the negative about our prophet Joseph Smith? I am biased towards my own opinion of course.
Kinderhook Mound Information
I quote “The Mormons and the Mounds by Jonathan Neville MHA Presentation June 2017 St. Louis, Missouri where Jonathan Neville said, “Three specific mounds figure prominently in LDS history: Zelph’s mound in Illinois, the Kinderhook mound, also in Illinois, from which the six brass plates were taken, and Enon mound in Ohio… and continues saying, “The Kinderhook mound probably dates to the Adena era, and it reportedly had a conical shape typical of Adena mounds, but there doesn’t appear to be any discussion in the literature about this mound ever being dated or studied.” Neville Page 6
On page 9 of the same Neville paper above he says, “J. Michael Hunter introduced his article about Mormon archaeological zeal by writing “In 1843, Robert Wiley unearthed a set of six brass plates in a burial mound near Kinderhook, Illinois.” Hunter, J. Michael, “The Kinderhook Plates, the Tucson Artifacts, and Mormon Archaeological Zeal,” Journal of Mormon History, Vol. 31, No. 1
Neville then says, “Several authors have written and presented on the topic of the Kinderhook plates, including Mark Ashurst-McGee, Don Bradley, Brian M. Hauglid, and Jason Frederick Peters. In 1981, the Ensign published an article that took the positions that (i) the Kinderhook plates were a hoax and (ii) Joseph Smith never attempted to translate them.” Jonathan Neville with reference from him found inKimball, Stanley B.,“Kinderhook Plates Brought to Joseph Smith Appear to be a Nineteenth-Century Hoax,” Ensign, August 1981
Whether or not the plates were a hoax there is always the possibility they were genuine. You as a reader need to determine that yourself. I just share quotes from honest people, but through your personal study and prayer you may know the truth of all things. If true, the Kinderhook plates are another possible witness that Joseph Smith is and was a Prophet of God. That is something I ponder on.
As it says Joseph may have translated a portion of the Kinderhook Plates printed again in the Times and Seasons, “I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.”(Then followed a reprint of material from the Times and Seasons article.) Deseret News Sept 3, 1856
So Pharaoh, king of Egypt apparently received his Kingdom, but we know from the scriptures that Ham’s offspring with Egyptus could not hold the Priesthood as we read below.
About Patriarchal and Melchizedek Priesthoods
“In the Bible, Melchizedek, also transliterated Melchisedech or Malki Tzedek, was the king of Salem and priest of El Elyon. He is first mentioned in Genesis 14:18–20, where he brings out bread and wine and then blesses Abram and El Elyon. In Christianity, according to the Epistle to the Hebrews, Jesus is identified as “High priest forever in the order of Melchizedek“, and so Jesus assumes the role of High Priest once and for all.” Wikipedia; (El Elyon is a name for God that means Most High, Creator of heaven and earth”, according to Bible Study Tools).
During the time of Adam it seems the Higher Priesthood of God was apparent in the Prophets and likely given to each worth som after that time. However, after the flood when Noah reigned, it seems the father to son Priesthood called the Patriarchal Priesthood was given by simply being a good father. The Highest Priesthood later called Melchisedek Priesthood after the righteous man named Melchisedek or Shem (Same Person), who was the King of Salem.
You will learn more as you contemplate the scripture about Ham and the Priesthood in Abraham 1:22-27 comparing scripture to the possible translation from Joseph Smith.
“Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.
The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
Noah had the High Priesthood from Adam, and also had the Patriarchal Priesthood from his father, Lamech. Ham had the High Priesthood from his father Noah, and also the Patriarchal Priesthood from Noah, yet Hams sons with Egyptus, had the only the Patriarchal Priesthood because of his father, but not likely the Highest or Melchizedek Priesthood, as the scriptures say the Son of Ham and Egyptus, could not hold thehighest Priesthood, but then his son tried to imitate the highest Priesthood as Satan does imitate it today.
Now let’s not get confused, as I also understand the Shem was likely the same person as Melchisedek, which adds further discussion into this Priesthood line of authority that we won’t address here.
It seems that all three of Noah’s sons had some type of priesthood which was likely the Patriarchal Priesthood, which comes simply by being the son of your father. Yet it seems Noah gave only Shem both the Patriarchal and the Melchisedek Priesthood, as the line of Shem is where the Melchisedek Priesthood comes from for us today.
For example my father ordained me to the Melchisedek Priesthood, but did my father have both Patriarchal and Melchisedek Priesthood to give me? (He only could give me the Patriarchal Priesthood as simply being my father), but he did not ordain me to have the Patriarchal Priesthood, but my father did ordain me to the Melchisedek Priesthood. But any worthy holder of the Melchisedek Priesthood could have ordained me, correct? In other words when did simple Patriarchal Priesthood end, and we now only have the Aaronic and Melchisedek Priesthood today?
I remember as a member of a Bishopric calling the LDS phone number we all should know for questions of any kind at, 801-240-1000, and they gave me a Priesthood leader who was authorized to speak to my question. He told me that we only have the two Priesthoods today the Aaronic and Melchisedek. I understood that to mean over 25 years ago, to mean that only the Melchisedek Priesthood is given by ordination. This has helped me answer the question I posed in Chapter 11E of this book, as to why there were 3 levels of Priesthood or 3 altars spoken of in this question and answer?
This makes sense. Both sons of Noah, Ham and Japeth had a Patriarchal Priesthood, but only Noah’s son Shem was given the Higher or Melchisedek Priesthood to carry on through the Savior time and through ordination today from a worthy Melchisedek Priesthood holder.
Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.
Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, (He likely had Patriarchal Priesthood from his father Ham, but he could not be ordained to the Highest Priesthood of Melchisedek), notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;” Abraham 1:21-27 (That may mean the Pharaohs could claim they can use the Patriarchal Priesthood and pretend it was the same as the Melchisedek Priesthood which they could not be ordained to).
Did the Brother of Jared Hold the Priesthood?
I share with you that I believe the Jaredites likely landed near Seattle Washington. I also share that I believe the Jaredites who were blessed with keeping the Adamic Language very likely had the correct Priesthood. Bruce R. McConkie said, “These promises of God to the Jaredites contain the essential elements of the everlasting covenant detailed later to Father Abraham and to every covenant people. These elements include priesthood, posterity, and a land of inheritance” Bruce McConkie, A New Witness 505
Yes! They Retained the Adamic Language, which relates to the Priesthood. Ether was their last Prophet and Mahonri Moriancumer would have the Priesthood or else why did Jared always ask him to talk with the Lord on behalf of the Jaredites? I realize you don’t have to have the Priesthood to see Christ, as we know Joseph Smith saw Christ without holding the Priesthood, but it makes sense that Prophets had the ordained Priesthood and especially those who were sent to the Promised land of North America, such as Lehi and Mahonri Moriancumer.
“The book of Moses described the language of Adam as “pure and undefiled”. It is intimately connected with the “Priesthood,which was in the beginning, [and] shall be in the end of the world also.” MOSES 6:5 Thomas R. Valletta, “Jared and His Brother,” in Fourth Nephi, From Zion to Destruction, ed. Monte S. Nyman and Charles Tate Jr. (BYU Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center
In a video I did online here: bookofmormonevidence.org/jaredites, I will share with you my details of why I believe the Jaredites Landed near Seattle and why I strongly believe the Jaredites had the Priesthood.
More Kinderhook Plates from Deseret News
On September 3 and 10, 1856, the following paragraphs appeared in the Deseret News as part of the serialized “History of Joseph Smith”:
“[May 1, 1843:] I insert facsimiles of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook, in Pike county, Illinois, on April 23, by Mr. R. Wiley and others, while excavating a large mound. They found a skeleton about six feet from the surface of the earth, which must have stood nine feet high. The plates were found on the breast of the skeleton and were covered on both sides with ancient characters.
“I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.” (Then followed a reprint of material from the Times and Seasons article.)
Although this account appears to be the writing of Joseph Smith, it is actually an excerpt from a journal of William Clayton. It has been well known that the serialized “History of Joseph Smith” consists largely of items from other persons’ personal journals and other sources, collected during Joseph Smith’s lifetime and continued after the Saints were in Utah, then edited and pieced together to form a history of the Prophet’s life “in his own words.” It was not uncommon in the nineteenth century for biographers to put the narrative in the first person when compiling a biographical work, even though the subject of the biography did not actually say or write all the words attributed to him; thus the narrative would represent a faithful report of what others felt would be helpful to print. The Clayton journal excerpt was one item used in this way. For example, the words “I have translated a portion” originally read “President J. has translated a portion. …”
Where the ideas written by William Clayton originated is unknown. However, as will be pointed out later, speculation about the plates and their possible content was apparently quite unrestrained in Nauvoo when the plates first appeared. In any case, this altered version of the extract from William Clayton’s journal was reprinted in the Millennial Star of 15 January 1859, and, unfortunately, was finally carried over into official Church history when the “History of Joseph Smith” was edited into book form as the History of the Church in 1909.
Front and back of four of the six Kinderhook plates are shown in these facsimiles (rough copies of even earlier published facsimiles), which appeared in 1909 in History of the Church, vol. 5, pp. 374–75.
By 1912, however, at least two items of evidence had come to light indicating that the Kinderhook plates were not authentic. One was a letter written in 1855 (but not published until 1912) by Dr. W. P. Harris—the same W. P. Harris who authored the statement that appeared in the Times and Seasons article. In this letter he wrote that in 1843 he had accepted the discovery of the plates as genuine. “I washed and cleaned the plates and subsequently made an honest affidavit to the same,” he said. “But since that time, Bridge Whitton [a blacksmith in Kinderhook, Illinois] said to me that he cut and prepared the plates and he (B. Whitton) and R. Wiley engraved them themselves, and that there was nitric acid put upon them the night before they were found to rust the iron ring and band. And that they were carried to the mound, rubbed in the dirt and carefully dropped into the pit where they were found.”
The other item was a letter written in 1879 by Wilbur Fugate (another of those present at the excavation of the plates) to an anti-Mormon in Salt Lake City. Fugate declared that the alleged discovery of the Kinderhook plates was “a HUMBUG, gotten up by Robert Wiley, Bridge Whitton and myself. … None of the nine persons who signed the certificate [a document included in the Times and Seasons article] knew the secret, except Wiley and I.
“We read in Pratt’s prophecy that ‘Truth is yet to spring out of the earth.’ [The quote is from Parley P. Pratt’s 1837 missionary tract Voice of Warning.] We concluded to prove the prophecy by way of a joke. We soon made our plans and executed them. Bridge Whitton cut them out of some pieces of copper; Wiley and I made the hieroglyphics by making impressions on beeswax and filling them with acid and putting it on the plates. When they were finished we put them together with rust made of nitric acid, old iron and lead, and bound them with a piece of hoop iron, covering them completely with the rust.”
Fugate then went on to tell how they secretly buried the plates and faked their discovery.
These accounts have generated much controversy for more than a hundred years since the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, the question being twofold: (1) are the Kinderhook plates authentic? and (2) did Joseph Smith attempt to translate them? In general, Latter-day Saint scholars and laymen have sought to confirm the story of the Kinderhook plates, feeling that such authentication would both defend the Prophet and make more plausible the account of the Book of Mormon having been taken from plates of gold. Antagonists, on the other hand, have sought to demonstrate that Joseph Smith was a false prophet…
Since coming to public awareness in 1920, this plate has undergone a number of tests. For example, in 1953 it was examined by two engravers who made an affidavit stating that “to the best of our knowledge this Plate was engraved with a pointed instrument and not etched with acid”—a conclusion which contradicted the letters claiming the plates to be a hoax, and which therefore fueled the hopes of those who wanted the plates to be proven genuine.
A much more rigorous study of the Chicago plate was organized in 1969 by Dr. Paul Cheesman of Brigham Young University. He secured permission from the Chicago Historical Society to bring the plate to BYU for exhaustive non-destructive testing—that is, analytical tests not involving actual damage to the plate. The results of these tests were to be compared with previous tests performed in 1960 and 1966. The plate was examined by physicists, engravers, a jeweler, a metalworker, and several photographers, with mixed results. The physicists concluded that the plate was acid-etched and of non-ancient brass; the others could not agree whether it was etched, engraved, or both. Dr. Cheesman concluded: “It appears we need to have a destructive analysis for further confirmation. Much more testing needs to be done.”
There the matter rested until 1980, when I had the good fortune to secure permission from the Chicago Historical Society for the recommended destructive tests. These tests, involving some very sophisticated analytical techniques, were performed by Professor D. Lynn Johnson of the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at Northwestern University…
Charlotte Haven, a somewhat antagonistic non-Mormon who was visiting her sister (a Mormon) in Nauvoo at the time, wrote a letter on May 2 that gives the following account:
“We hear very frequently from our Quincy friends through Mr. Joshua Moore, who passes through that place and this in his monthly zigzag tours through the State, traveling horseback. His last call on us was last Saturday [April 29] and he brought with him half a dozen thin pieces of brass, apparently very old, in the form of a bell about five or six inches long. They had on them scratches that looked like writing, and strange figures like symbolic characters. They were recently found, he said, in a mound a few miles below Quincy. When he showed them to Joseph, the latter said that the figures or writing on them was similar to that in which the Book of Mormon was written, and if Mr. Moore could leave them, he thought that by the help of revelation he would be able to translate them.”
It is possible, then, that Mr. Joshua Moore was the one who obtained the plates by pretense and brought them to Nauvoo. In any event, the plates had apparently arrived in Nauvoo by Saturday, April 29, and had been shown to Joseph Smith.
William Clayton evidently had access to the plates at some point, for in his journal entry of Monday, May 1, he included a tracing of one of the plates. (Whether or not he was present when Joseph Smith saw the plates is unknown.) Two days later, on Wednesday, Brigham Young also drew an outline of one of the Kinderhook plates in a small notebook/diary that he kept. Inside the drawing he wrote: “May 3—1843. I had this at Joseph Smith’s house. Found near Quincy.”
Very soon afterward the plates were removed from Nauvoo, for the Times and Seasons editorial, which was written perhaps on Wednesday or Thursday (May 3 or 4), said: “Mr. Smith has had those plates, what his opinion concerning them is, we have not yet ascertained. The gentleman that owns them has taken them away, or we should have given a fac simile of the plates and characters in this number. We are informed however, that he purposes returning with them for translation; if so, we may be able yet to furnish our readers with it.”
The plates were apparently in Nauvoo, then, from Saturday the 29th through Wednesday the 3rd—a period of five days—and were then taken away. Later, however, they were evidently returned to Nauvoo for a time, for by June 24 the Nauvoo Neighbor press had access to them and was thus able to produce facsimiles for the published broadside. A History of the Church entry for Sunday, May 7, says: “In the forenoon I [Joseph Smith] was visited by several gentlemen, concerning the plates that were dug out near Kinderhook.” Whether or not the plates were actually returned on that day—or indeed, whether Joseph Smith himself ever had the plates again—is uncertain.
In any case, the translation for which hope had been expressed in the Times and Seasons did not appear. In a letter dated April 8, 1878, Wilbur Fugate recalled: “We understood Jo Smith said [the plates] would make a book of 1200 pages but he would not agree to translate them until they were sent to the Antiquarian society at Philadelphia, France, and England.” Furthermore, a review of other entries in Joseph Smith’s history indicate that he was occupied during the following weeks with mayoral duties, Church business, the Nauvoo Legion, and four different trips to neighboring cities; there is no indication of translating activities. Then on June 23, just one day before publication of the broadside that repeated the Saints’ hopeful expectation of an eventual translation, the Prophet was abducted by Missourians who tried to get him to Missouri for prosecution on charges of “treason.” He made it back to Nauvoo on June 30, but the habeas corpus proceedings took up more than two weeks of his time.
Just when the plates were taken from Nauvoo for the second and perhaps final time is uncertain. But we know that by fall of that same year they were back in Robert Wiley’s possession, for on November 15 he wrote a letter to one J. J. Harding suggesting that he was interested in selling the plates to “the National Institute,” and that he was also interested in the “opinions of your different Entiquarian friends.” In reference to having the plates examined by “the Antiquarian society at Philadelphia, France, and England,” Wilbur Fugate went on to say: “They were sent and the answer was that there were no such Hyeroglyphics known, and if there ever had been, they had long since passed away. Then Smith began his translation.” (The reference to Joseph Smith having begun a “translation” of the plates is in error, since they were never returned to Nauvoo. The Prophet died a martyr the following year.)
However, the question of when the plates were taken from Nauvoo is not as important as the fact that they were taken away. In spite of the considerable excitement they generated in Nauvoo after their “discovery” the plates were allowed to leave the Saints, apparently without fanfare. No known record exists which intimates that Joseph Smith or those around him ever purchased or attempted to purchase the plates (as were the mummies associated with the Book of Abraham papyrus), even though their owner, Wiley, was prepared to sell them.
That the plates had aroused interest in Nauvoo is evident from two accounts that were not published until years later. In a letter written to a friend on Sunday, May 7, Parley P. Pratt said: “A large number of Citizens have seen them and compared the characters with those on the Egyptian papyrus which is now in this city.” A few lines previously, he had begun his comment on the plates as follows:
“Six plates having the appearance of Brass have lately been dug out of a mound by a gentleman in Pike Co. Illinois. They are small and filled with engravings in Egyptian language and contain the genealogy of one of the ancient Jaredites back to Ham the son of Noah. His bones were found in the same vase (made of Cement). Part of the bones were 15 ft. underground.”
This calls to mind the statement from the William Clayton journal referred to above:
“I have seen six brass plates which were found in Adams County by some persons who were digging in a mound. They found a skeleton about six feet from the surface of the earth which was nine feet high. … President J. has translated a portion and says they contain the history of the person with whom they were found, and he was a descendant of Ham through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of heaven and earth.”
It seems, then, that there was considerable talk about the plates in Nauvoo—and apparently as much misinformation and hearsay was current among people as there was fact. Pratt heard of a discovery in Pike County; Clayton said Adams County. Clayton said that the find was made six feet underground; Pratt, fifteen. Elder Pratt spoke of a cement vase—an item mentioned in no other account. Clayton mentioned a skeleton nine feet tall—also unmentioned in any other account. Clayton said that the plates gave a history of an Egyptian; Pratt mentioned a Jaredite.
The elements that these two accounts have in common suggest a basic jist to the hearsay stories circulating in Nauvoo and also that Joseph Smith with others saw and wondered about the nature of the material that had been brought to Nauvoo. But there is, obviously, leagues of difference between an actual translation of sacred records and a consideration of artifacts of uncertain origin—the former requiring study, prayer, and revelation; the latter characterized perhaps by an examination for points of similarity, etc., in a setting where various suggestions are likely aired by those present and elaborated on as discussion continued. And the actual presence of William Clayton or Parley P. Pratt in any discussion on the topic with Joseph Smith is simply unknown.
It is hard to imagine that the Prophet Joseph Smith wouldn’t have been intrigued by the plates. When they were first shown to him, he may well have noted certain correspondence between some characters on the plates and “reformed Egyptian” and contemplated the possibility of authenticity and translation, as the Charlotte Haven letter suggests. But how much of the conjecture that was current in Nauvoo at the time might be attributable to him would be a speculation in itself, impossible to verify from the available accounts. The one account that was published in the Times and Seasons, whose editors were equally as intimate with Joseph Smith as William Clayton and Parley P. Pratt, could only report that “Mr. Smith has had those plates, what his opinion concerning them is we have not yet ascertained.”
The central issue in the whole question of Joseph Smith’s involvement in the Kinderhook plate episode is that the expected “translation” did not appear. And this fact may well explain the characteristic that has made this hoax most interesting—that it was never carried to completion. That the Kinderhook plates were not authentic artifacts is no longer in doubt; but if the plates were faked, why wasn’t the hoax revealed right away?
It has been suggested that the whole Kinderhook plate incident was, as Wilbur Fugate said in his 1878 and 1879 letters, a heavy-handed, frontier-style “joke.” On the other hand, the conspirators’ objective might have been more pointed—to produce a bogus set of plates and then reveal the hoax in a shower of ridicule after the Prophet made a purported “translation.” In either case, they were frustrated in their scheme because no translation ever appeared. In fact, there is no evidence that Joseph Smith ever concluded the plates were genuine, other than conflicting statements from members who hoped that a translation would come forth—and in fact no evidence that the Prophet manifested real interest in the “discovery” after his initial viewing of the plates. The statement taken from William Clayton’s journal didn’t appear until September 1856 in Salt Lake City’s Deseret News. At that point, time itself had eroded away the opportunity for a hearty joke, if that were the hoaxers’ intent; and the absence of an actual translation in spite of the Clayton entry in the “History of Joseph Smith” could only have added to their frustrations—assuming that the hoaxers even knew of the Deseret News account, which appeared thirteen years later and a thousand miles away.
Another possible explanation for the hoax never having been carried through may lie in Robert Wiley’s desire to sell the plates as genuine artifacts. For him to have exposed the hoax before the attempted sale would, of course, have scuttled any negotiations; and to expose it afterward may have landed the sellers and conspirators in jail for attempted fraud—turning the tables and making them the object of ridicule instead of Joseph Smith.
Significantly, there is no evidence that the Prophet Joseph Smith ever took up the matter with the Lord, as he did when working with the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. And this brings us to the other side of the story, for those of us who believe that Joseph Smith was the Lord’s prophet: Isn’t it natural to expect that he would be guided to understand that these plates were not of value as far as his mission was concerned? That other members may have been less judicious and not guided in the same way cannot be laid at the Prophet’s feet. Many people, now as well as then, have an appetite for hearsay and a hope for “easy evidence” to bolster or even substitute for personal spirituality and hard-won faith that comes from close familiarity with truth and communion with God.
So it is that in the 100-year battle of straw men and straw arguments, Joseph Smith needs no defense—he simply did not fall for the scheme. And with that understood, it is perhaps time that the Kinderhook plates be retired to the limbo of other famous faked antiquities.
Enlargement of the front and back of the Kinderhook plate now owned by the Chicago Historical Society. Actual size of the bell-shaped plate is 2 7/8″ high by 2 1/4″ wide at the bottom, tapering to 1 3/16″ at the top; average thickness is 1/32″. The nickel-size splotch on the backside is likely due to corrosion since its 1843 “discovery.” Photographs courtesy Chicago Historical Society.”
Again I explain that I do not know if the Kinderhook plates are authentic or not. But I do believe Joseph Smiths words more that intellects. If Joseph Smith spoke the words he is said to have said below, I believe Joseph.
As it says Joseph may have translated a portion of the Kinderhook Plates printed again in the Times and Seasons, “I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.”(Then followed a reprint of material from the Times and Seasons article.) Deseret News Sept 3, 1856
If the words above is what Joseph really said, then I believe the Kinderhook Plates are very likely to be authentic. These words explain to me the difference between God giving Hams son the Priesthood of Melchisedek, and simply giving him “his Kingdom” which he had the right for from his father Ham as a Patriarchal Priesthood, through simply being a son, and it was not an ordained Melchizedek Priesthood unto the son of Ham.
There have been many witnesses of the events of the Book of Mormon beginning in the Heartland of the United States, by Prophets, Apostles, and other members of the church. Some were shared at General Conferences, some from church pulpits and some from the ordinary lives of our beloved Pioneers. All statements are important to read and reflect upon and search for the spirit of truth. For myself, knowing the Land of Joseph is indeed the Promised Land of America, is an important part of my testimony of the Book of Mormon. I will share why geography is important to me at the end of this blog.
Truman G. Madsen
“If you live into the next century you will see evidence for the Book of Mormon come forth in droves.” Truman G. Madsen, speaking of what the Prophet Joseph Smith said to a colleague, in the opening statement of the 2005 video, “Journey of Faith.”
F. Michael Watson
“The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.” F. Michael Watson, Secretary to the First Presidency, in a letter dated October 16, 1990
Anthony W. Ivins
“The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon and the more extended discussion of this subject by Elder B. H. Roberts which was published in The Deseret News of March 3 definitely established the following facts: That the hill Cumorah, and the hill Ramah are identical. That it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites fought their great last battles. That it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his son, Moroni. We know positivelythat it was in this hill that Moroni deposited the abridgment made by his father, and his own abridgment of the record of the Jaredites, and that it was from this hill that Joseph Smith obtained possession of them.
Ivins continued. “According to the Book of Mormon, many hundreds of thousands of people fell in battle around this hill and in the immediate vicinity. It was here that two once-powerful nations were exterminated so far as their national existence was concerned. It was here that these nations gathered together for their last great struggles.
All of these incidents to which I have referred, my brethren and sisters, are very closely associated with this particular spot in the state of New York. Therefore I feel, as I said in the beginning of my remarks, that the acquisition of that spot of ground is more than an incident in the history of the Church; it is an epoch—an epoch which in my opinion is fraught with that which may become of greater interest to the Latter-day Saints than that which has already occurred. We know that all of these records, all the sacred records of the Nephite people, were deposited by Mormon in that hill. That incident alone is sufficient to make it the sacred and hallowed spot that it is to us. I thank God that, in a way which seems to have been providential, it has come into the possession of the Church” The Hill Cumorah by President Anthony W. Ivins, Improvement Era, 1928, Vol. Xxxi. June, 1928 No. 8
Russell M. Nelson
Gerald Lund said, “In the fall of 2007, my assignment as a General Authority Seventy was in Salt Lake City, working in the Church Office Building. One day I went down to a small cafeteria in the basement of the Church Administration Building that is reserved for General Authorities. After getting my food, I saw that four of my colleagues in the Seventy were seated at a table for six, just starting to eat. They invited me to join them. We spoke briefly about our various assignments, but soon the talk turned to the current financial crisis. It didn’t take long for our conversation to become quite bleak in tone. One of the brethren had a grandchild who had recently graduated with an MBA but was having no luck in finding employment. Another reported that a grandchild was unsure about wanting to get married and bring children into the world.
About that time, as this cloud of gloom settled over our lunch table, Russell M. Nelson, then Elder Nelson of the Twelve, came into the lunchroom with a tray of food. Seeing that we had a vacant spot at our table, he joined us. He ate quietly for a time as our conversation went right on in that same sense of discouragement. Finally, one of the brethren said, “They’re talking about the possibility of the whole government of the United States failing. Then what shall we do?”
Elder Nelson, who hadn’t said much since sitting down, laid down his fork and looked at us directly. His expression was very sober as he spoke quietly, saying something like this: “Brethren, the Lord chose the United States of America as the place for the Restoration of the gospel in our dispensation. He did that so we would have a base of religious freedom that would sustain the work of the Restoration. Also, the financial affluence and the political stability of the United States makes it possible for our Church to take the gospel to the world. That is a task that is not yet finished. Brethren, the Lord is at the helm. He will not let this work fail.”
That was more than ten years ago, but I still vividly remember two things. First, how sheepish we felt for letting ourselves become so negative. And the second was the lesson taught: God is in control. Why then do we fear? It was a profound teaching moment, and I have reminded myself of that day often when I have found myself growing discouraged and pessimistic”. God is at the helm! by Elder Gerald N. Lund, adapted from “The Second Coming of the Lord” | Oct. 07, 2020See dozens of additional quotes here:
In the Midst of the Lamanites
“No,” said the old Patriarch [Joseph Smith Sr.], his whole being seeming to be alive with animation. “The Lord has told Joseph that when we leave here we will go into the Rocky Mountains, right into the midst of the Lamanites.”
This information filled our hearts with unspeakable joy, for we knew that the Book of Mormon and this gospel had been brought to light more for the remnants of Jacob upon this continent than for the Gentiles.
Father Smith again enjoined upon us profound secrecy in this matter, and I don’t think it was ever uttered by one of Father Huntington’s family.
The history of Nauvoo shows that we located in Nauvoo in 1839 and left it in 1846.
See Sources here: The Young Woman’s Journal, II, (December, 1890), pp. 124-125; (February, 1891), pp. 225-226; (April, 1891), pp. 314-315; (May, 1891), p. 366; (July, 1891), pp. 466-468; IV (March, 1893), pp. 274-275; (April, 1893) pp. 320-321; (June, 1893), pp. 424-425; Hyrum L. Andrus and Helen Mae Andrus, comps., They Knew the Prophet [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1974], 63
A Veritable Swamp
“When President Young visited the proposed sites, he requested that his teamster conduct the party to the lowest place in the valley, a veritable swamp infested with marsh-grass and cattails. Pointing out the marsh to the brethren, he explained that the [St. George] Temple must be built at that place, because the Nephites had previously dedicated that very site for the erection of a Temple, but had been unable to bring their hopes to a full fruition.” McGavin, E. Cecil, 1935, Mormonism and Masonry, Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret News Press, p. 156
This Spot was Dedicated by the Nephites
Another account by David Henry Cannon Jr., a witness to the event, says:
By Al Round
To the South, they finally stopped. ‘But, Brother Young,’ protested the men, ‘this land is boggy . . . There is no place to build a foundation. We will make a foundation, said President Young. Later on while plowing and scraping where the foundation was to be, my horse’s leg broke through the ground into a spring of water. The brethren then wanted to move the foundation line twelve feet to the south, so that the spring of water would be on the outside of the Temple. Not so,’ replied President Young, ‘We will wall it up and leave it here for some future use. But we cannot move the foundation. This spot was dedicated by the Nephites. They could not build it (the Temple), but we can and will build it for them.’ To this day the water from that very spring is running through a drain properly built for it.” Heinerman, Joseph, 1986, Temple Manifestations, Salt Lake City Utah: Joseph Lyon and Associates, Inc. dba Magazine Printing and Publishing, pp. 60-
Prophet Moroni Stood and Dedicated this Piece of Land
Once, Brigham Young, accompanied by Warren S. Snow, went to where they would build the Manti Temple. Warren S. Snow said:
Native American – Minerva Teichert and the Manti Temple
“We two were alone: President Young took me to the spot where the Temple was to stand; we went to the southeast corner, and President Young said: ‘Here is the spot where the Prophet Moroni stood and dedicated this piece of land for a Temple site, and that is the reason why the location is made here, and we can’t move it from this spot; and if you and I are the only good persons that come here at high noon today, we will dedicate this ground.’ A Source Book, Provo, UT: FARMS; Whitney, Orson F., 1974, Life of Heber C. Kimball, Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, p. 477; Cheesman, Paul R., 1978, The World of the Book of Mormon, Horizon Publishers, Bountiful, Utah, p. 25; Heinerman, Joseph, 1986, Temple Manifestations, Salt Lake City, Utah: Joseph Lyon and Associates, Inc. dba Magazine Printing and Publishing, p. 101
Gadianton Robbers
Upon one occasion President Brigham Young was in the Tabernacle at St. George and was speaking on the spirit world. He stated that it was not far from us and if the veil could be taken from our eyes there wouldn’t be either a man, woman or child who would dare go out of “this tabernacle as the spirits of the Gadianton robbers were so thick out there. This is where they lived in these mountains,” said he.” Crowther, Duane S., 1967, Life Everlasting, Bookcraft, SLC, UT, p. 165, as quoted from N. B. Lundwall, Temples of the Most High, p. 89.
“Of course, the significance of this statement makes sense only in light of the land of Zarahemla being in the United States [D&C 125]. The Nephites wouldn’t have gone all the way from Mexico into the United States to hunt the Gadianton Robbers, nor would the Gadiantons have gone into the United States to hide from Nephites in Mexico. It is clear that since the Gadianton Robbers were hiding out in Utah in the St. George region, the Land of Zarahemla must have been in the United States as well. The “mountains” mentioned in the following scriptures, therefore, are the Rocky Mountains of the United States.” Some references used from Joseph Smith Foundation Website
A Nephite or a Jaredite?
EXPERIENCE OF ZEKE JOHNSON, son of Joel Hills Johnson, born in 1869. (Recorded in the JOHNSON BULLEITN, September 1973)
Zeke Johnson son of Joel Hills Johnson (Picture from J Gregory Barron)
“I have been requested to relate an experience I had in 1908-9 in San Juan Co. I was just making a home in Blanding and the whole country there was covered with trees and sagebrush. I was working hard to clear the ground to plant a few acres of corn. We had five acres cleared and stared to plant corn. My little boy, Roy, about 7 or 8 years old was there to help me plant the corn. I’d plow around the place, then he would plant the furrow with corn, then I’d cover it and plow again. While I was plowing on that piece of ground, I discovered there were ancient houses there, that is the remains of them.
As I was plowing around I noticed that my plow had turned out the skeleton of a small child, the skull and backbone, but most of the bones of course were decayed and gone. Part of the skeleton was there, so I stopped immediately as my plow had passes it a little. I turned and looked back against the bar of the plow between the needles. As I was looking at that little skeleton that I had plowed out and wondering, all of a sudden, to my surprise, I saw the bones begin to wiggle and they began to change position and to take different color and within a minute there lay a beautiful little skeleton. It was a perfect little skeleton.
Then I saw the inner parts of the natural body coming in the entrails, etc. I saw the flesh coming on, and I saw the skin come on the body when the inner parts of the body were complete. A beautiful head of hair adorned the top of the head, and in about a half minute after the hair was on the head, it had a beautiful crystal decoration in the hair. It was combed beautifully and parted on one side. In about half a minute after the hair was on the head, the child raised up on her feet. She was lying a little on her left side with her back toward me. Because of this I wasn’t able to discern the sex of the child, but as she raised, a beautiful robe came down over her left shoulder and I saw it must be a girl.
She looked at me and I looked at her, and for a quarter of a minute we just looked at each other smiling. Then in my ambition to get hold of her, I said, ‘Oh you beautiful child.’ I reached out as if I would embrace her and she disappeared. That was all I saw, and I just stood there and wondered and thought for a few minutes… Now, I couldn’t tell that story to anyone, because it was so mysterious to me and such. Why should I have such a miraculous experience? I couldn’t feature a human being in such a condition as to accidentally plow that little body out and see it come alive. A body of a child about 5 to 7 years old, I’d say. I just couldn’t tell that story to anyone until finally, one day I met a dear friend of mine, Stake Patriarch, Wayne II. Redd of Blanding. He stopped me on the street, and said, ‘Zeke, you have had an experience on this mesa you won’t tell, and I want you to tell me.’ Well, I told it to him. Then he had me tell it to other friends and since then I’ve told it in 4 temples in the United States, and many meeting houses, many socials, Fast meetings, and at Conference time.
I wondered and worried about it for years as to why I was allowed to see it, a common man like me – uneducated as I was. Why was I, just a common man, allowed to see such a marvelous manifestation of God’s powers? One day as I was walking along with my hoe on my shoulder, going to hoe some corn, something said, ‘Stop under the shade of the tree for a few minutes and rest.’ This just came to me and I thought I would, so I stopped there and this was given to me:
Jaredites Land. Brooke Malia Mann
It was an answer to my prayers. I prayed incessantly for an answer as to why I was privileged to see that resurrection. Then I was told why. When the child was buried there, it was either in time of war with the different tribes, or it was wintertime when the ground was frozen, and they had no tools to dig deep graves. If it were during time of war they couldn’t possibly take time to dig a deep grave. They just planted the little body as they could under the circumstances. Then it was done, the sorrowing Mother knew that it was such a little shallow grave that in her sorrow she cried out to the little group present, ‘That little shallow grave, the first beast that comes along will smell her body, and will dig her up and scatter her to the four winds. Her bones will be scattered all over these flats.’
There just happened to be a man present holding the Priesthood. (A Nephite or a Jaredite, I don’t know which, because they both had been in this country.) This man said, ‘Sister, calm your sorrows. Whenever that little body is disturbed or uncovered, the Lord will call her up and she will live.’ Since that time I have taken great comfort, great cheer, consolation, and satisfaction with praise in my heart and soul, until I haven’t the words to express it, that it was I that uncovered that little body.
Thank you for listening to me. I just can’t tell this without crying.” Zeke Johnson, son of Joel Hills Johnson
Why Geography Matters by Rian Nelson
“If we in the church cannot even decide among ourselves where the Book of Mormon happened, how confusing is that to our youth and adults? Many anti-Mormons love the idea that we don’t even know where our sacred scriptures happened. There are over 100 theories of where the Book of Mormon happened, including, Baja, Chile, Malaysia, Honduras, Peru, etc. My feelings on all geographical theories about the Book of Mormon must include the following -The Hill Cumorah in NY is the hill where Joseph Smith received the plates from Moroni, and it is also the place of the last battles of the Nephites (Cumorah) and of the Jaredites (Ramah). I also believe the letter of Joseph Smith to his wife Emma in 1834 Illinois where he said “The whole of our journey, in the midst of so large a company of social honest men and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting [p. 57] occasionaly the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity” Joseph Smith Papers Letter to Emma Smith, 4 June 1834 Page 56-7 (spelling not corrected), is a true statement. Any other specific locations of the Book of Mormon cities and places are not fully known.
Large Map
Any other geography that doesn’t include these preceding important details isn’t a viable interpretation in my opinion. No scholar, computer or archaeology tells me this, I just feel it is true by personal revelation.
I also believe the Promised Land spoken of in the Book of Mormon is indeed the United States of America and its Constitution was written under the Savior Jesus Christ’s direction. D&C 101:80. Also knowing that Adam lived in Missouri and the New Jerusalem will be in Missouri, tells me the importance of “this Land” of the United States as the cradle of civilization and is critical as the headquarters of the Church, the land where the Gospel goes forth from, the place where the “Marvelous Work and Wonder” takes place, and the “Land of Joseph” of Egypt spoken of by prophets, is indeed the United States of America. I also believe there is a great possibility that D&C 125:3 is the Lord designating the area west of Nauvoo, Illinois as the ancient place of Zarahemla. I also feel the Prophet Joseph Smith had a vision about the warrior Zelph who was killed during one of the many last and great battles between the Nephites and Lamanites, near Valley City, Illinois. This information makes me conclude that indeed the Book of Mormon events happened in the heartland of the United States of America.
I believe there are great Lamanites all over North, South and Central America today and in other countries, but they are not necessarily the ones spoken of in the Book of Mormon time frame. The Book of Mormon only contains a fraction of the history of the Promised Land Lehites. But I believe that small fraction of Book of Mormon history speaks about Lehi, and Nephi, and Alma, and Mormon as they lived and fought in these United States.
I spent over 40 years looking and studying the Mesoamerican theory and other many theories, and found them very lacking. Like I mentioned, I will have an open mind if and until the church acknowledges the specific location. I will follow the 15 chosen Prophets and Seers.
I know the Brethren of the Church take a neutral position on the geography of the Book of Mormon. For you and me to take a neutral stand is not required. The Lord told us to read and study, and in the promise to Moroni, He said we may know the truth of ALL things, and I feel that would include knowing the location of the Book of Mormon events. I believe knowledge of the Spirit and of the head, are both important in learning truth. As Elder Holland in 2017 said, “truth borne by the Holy Spirit comes with, in effect, two manifestations, two witnesses if you will—the force of fact as well as the force of feeling.”
Previously posted by Rian Nelson on Facebook Sept 22, 2019
Slide Presentation by Rian Nelson April 18, 2024 From Firm Foundation Conference.
Titled: Jaredites-Two Sets of Barges-Pacific Landing, Ether 2 Explained
See complete 61 page PDF below:
[pdf-embedder url=”https://bookofmormonevidence.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Jaredites-Slides-from-April-2024-Presentation.pdf” title=”Jaredites Slides from April 2024 Presentation”]
We know after the flood, Noah had three sons, Ham, Shem, and Japeth who began civilization near Mount Ararat in Turkey. After Noah landed at just north of Baghdad, Ham Shem and Japeth with family’s spread all over. They went northwest into Turkey, Greece, Poland and Europe. They spread northeast into Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Russia and Mongolia. They also spread far into Egypt, Libya, Sudan and Ethiopia. It seems likely to me that they least traveled to the area of Burma, Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore as ship travel probably made it not as feasible to travel there. The people getting on a ship to go anywhere far away for just travel, seems unrealistic with all the land and water close by. Sea travel of course was great for trade around the Mediterranean Sea and Persian Gulf, as the Phoenicians have proven. It says in Ether 2:6, they traveled in the wilderness, built barges, and crossed many waters. In my opinion it is most likely they traveled on foot towards the best water source to complete their long few voyages ahead. I don’t think they traveled towards the Mediterranean, as that is an area that many people were already located and not as the Lord said, “that quarter where there never had man been” Also travel to the north or east would require traveling over high mountainous terrain. See Map Below
As you can see above the majority of migration was to the North, and West of Babylon. Some travel went northeast and southwest. I am proposing “that quarter where there never had man been” is most likely towards the south east and the Persian Gulf.
ANCIENT NEPHITE-LAMANITE BATTLEGROUNDS
See Painting Below:
“This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph… I must not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillars were not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstances you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.” Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835
“A good many people, and those professing Christians, will sneer at the idea of present revelation. Whoever heard of true religion without communication with God? To me the thing is the most absurd thing that the human mind could conceive of. I do not wonder, 
“Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
Now, 
The Lord told Joseph Smith in about 1831 that some people are blessed to know that Jesus is the Christ, while others are simply blessed “to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful” (
“The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “
Below is a quote from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint’s website, that the historians who likely wrote this article, believe the plates are not authentic. We do however know that Joseph Smith and other Saints visited the Kinderhook mound as it does exist as is recorded in Church History along with the Enon Mound and the Zelph Mound. Many historians don’t believe the Zelph Mound story either, so it is up to you to decide.
I quote “The Mormons and the Mounds by Jonathan Neville MHA Presentation June 2017 St. Louis, Missouri where Jonathan Neville said, “Three specific mounds figure prominently in LDS history: Zelph’s mound in Illinois, the 
Neville then says, “Several authors have written and presented on the topic of the 
Although this account appears to be the writing of Joseph Smith, it is actually an excerpt from a journal of William Clayton. It has been well known that the serialized “History of Joseph Smith” consists largely of items from other persons’ personal journals and other sources, collected during Joseph Smith’s lifetime and continued after the Saints were in Utah, then edited and pieced together to form a history of the Prophet’s life “in his own words.” It was not uncommon in the nineteenth century for biographers to put the narrative in the first person when compiling a biographical work, even though the subject of the biography did not actually say or write all the words attributed to him; thus the narrative would represent a faithful report of what others felt would be helpful to print. The Clayton journal excerpt was one item used in this way. For example, the words “I have translated a portion” originally read “President J. has translated a portion. …”
The other item was a letter written in 1879 by Wilbur Fugate (another of those present at the excavation of the plates) to an anti-Mormon in Salt Lake City. Fugate declared that the alleged discovery of the Kinderhook plates was “a HUMBUG, gotten up by Robert Wiley, Bridge Whitton and myself. … None of the nine persons who signed the certificate [a document included in the Times and Seasons article] knew the secret, except Wiley and I.
Significantly, there is no evidence that the Prophet Joseph Smith ever took up the matter with the Lord, as he did when working with the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. And this brings us to the other side of the story, for those of us who believe that Joseph Smith was the Lord’s prophet: Isn’t it natural to expect that he would be guided to understand that these plates were not of value as far as his mission was concerned? That other members may have been less judicious and not guided in the same way cannot be laid at the Prophet’s feet. Many people, now as well as then, have an appetite for hearsay and a hope for “easy evidence” to bolster or even substitute for personal spirituality and hard-won faith that comes from close familiarity with truth and communion with God.
Ivins continued. “According to the Book of Mormon, 
This information filled our hearts with unspeakable joy, for we knew that the Book of Mormon and this gospel had been brought to light more for the remnants of Jacob upon this continent than for the Gentiles.
