The purpose of this blog is to discuss when the word “Cumorah” was first known to the leaders and people in the Church. Many Historians think the word “Cumorah” was only known after 1831, and Heartlanders believe it was as early as 1823 when Joseph knew the word “Cumorah” and the Church members knew this term as early as 1829.
Why is that important? Many historians say that the hill in New York was not called Cumorah until later in histroy as they claim the hill in NY [not called Cumorah], where Joseph found the gold plates was not the same hill where the last battles of the Nephites was fought. These historians believe the last battles happened somewhere in Mexico in a hill that does not necessarily have the name of Cumorah.
Some critics of the Church seem to continualy point out a disparity between what the prophets have taught about hill Cumorah and the revisionist Church history as a weapon to undermine faith. My feelings are that it would be far better to report the truth in the first place.
Millions of Church members plus future generations, may have no hope of learning the complete truth about the gospel, when the LDS book titled, “Saints”, The Standard of Truth, Volume 1, seems that some historians at times deliberately suppress and change Church history into what they think is an acceptable “narrative history”. I like the true history not someones made up narrative that they seem to like better.
“Saints” presents an opportunity to inform Church members about the truth using a narrative history, not necessarily a factual history. Some Church historians claim they are neutral on the location of Hill Cumorah. That appears to be the reason they may chose to mislead readers by not citing and quoting Lucy’s corrected account about the name of the hill as Cumorah, [as I speak about below], and other narratives they include like leaving the name Cumorah out of the “Saints” text replacing it with “the hill”, and at other times leaving out the word “Lamanites” from the text as well.
More blogs can be found at the end of this article that speak about how the book Saints eliminated the words Cumorah, and Lamanites. Also there are blogs that show how the Wentworth Letter was not fully quoted in a Church manual and why some scholars seem to edit things out of important Church works.
Mesoamerican Quotes
“The archaeology of New York—and specifically the Hill Cumorah—is persuasive evidence that Book of Mormon peoples did not live in that region. By implication, the Cumorah of the golden plates is not the Cumorah of the final battles—Mormon’s hill and Moroni’s hill are not one and the same. These conclusions follow from a few basic points and assumptions that the author explores in this article.” Clark, John E. “Archaeology and Cumorah Questions.” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 13 (2004): 144–51, 174. https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/jbms/vol13/iss1/15.
“We await answers for most questions evoked by this miracle of divinely supervised archaeological toil. What we do know is that Joseph Smith Jr. found the golden plates and other relics in a stone box in a hill near his home, a prominence now known as Cumorah.” Clark, John E. “Archaeology and Cumorah Questions page 146. As you see, Brother Clark says, “now known” not “then known” as Joseph and others have said.
Brother Clark also says, “Most proposals for the location of Mormon’s final stand fall into one of two possibilities: either the Palmyra hill or one in Middle America 2,000 miles to the south. Here I consider reasons for questioning the case for a New York location. I am unaware of any archaeological investigation of the hill itself, but sufficient information is available for the surrounding regions to make a critical assessment. Mormon’s hill and Moroni’s hill are not one and the same.” Clark, John E. “Archaeology and Cumorah Questions page 146 We believe there is only one possibility that Hill Cumorah was in New York.
Many Mesoamericans also don’t believe there was a cave in Cumorah NY, as a separate place from where the stone box was found at Cumorah in NY. They believe that Brigham Young’s quote about Joseph and Oliver going into a large cave at Hill Cumorah was a dream about some place in Mexico. Here is the quote, what do you think?
Cave in Hill Cumorah NY
“Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: “This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.” I tell you this as coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it just as well as we understand coming to this meeting. . . . [Don] Carlos Smith was a young man of as much veracity as any young man we had, and he was a witness to these things. Samuel Smith saw some things, Hyrum saw a good many things, but Joseph was the leader.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 17 June 1877
Not having a seperate place in NY Cumorah is also being purposely avoided my some Mesoamercanists as well as the final battles not fought in NY, but in some place in Mexico.
Parley P. Pratt’s Quote
Here is the quote that Mesoamerican theorists use to say no one knew the hill was called Cumorah until this quote by Parley P Pratt in 1831.
“This Book, which contained these things, was hid in the earth by Moroni, in a hill called by him, Cumorah, which hill is now in the State of New York, near the village of Palmyra, in Ontario County.” Quote from Parley P. Pratt in Feb 1831. The Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt – Revised and Enhanced Edition – Chapter 8
Knowledge of Cumorah before 1831 as Heartlanders know.
Heartlanders believe that Mormon’s hill and Moroni’s hill are both in Hill Cumorah NY at different locations in that same hill,and Joseph knew the name “Cumorah” as early as 1823 according to His mothers jourrnal as you see below.
1. Lucy Mack Smith’s Journal of 1845, hs a quote from the year 1823. “The record is on a side hill on the Hill of Cumorah 3 miles from this place.” Lucy Mack Smith https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/41
2. Early 1827– Joseph Smith (Quoted by his mother Lucy Mack Smith) “Stop, father, Stop.” said Joseph, “it was the angel of the Lord— as I passed by the hill of Cumorah, where the plates are, the angel of the Lord met me and said, that I had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord” https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/111
3. In 1829 David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Joseph Smith hear a messenger from their wagon while traveling to Fayette say, “No, I am going to Cumorah.’ This name was something new to me, I did not know what Cumorah meant.”David Whitmer http://www.lettervii.com/p/trip-to-fayette-references.html

More details here: https://bookofmormonevidence.org/the-geography-packet/
Below is a blog written by our good friend Jonathan Neville:
“Saints” First reference to Cumorah 1827
https://saintsreview.blogspot.com/2018/09/chapter-4-be-watchful.html
Chapter 4 of Saints, titled “Be Watchful,” covers the events leading up to the time when Joseph obtained the plates. You can read Chapter 4 here:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2018/06/chapter-4-be-watchful?lang=eng
At one point, the chapter relates an account of Joseph being chastised.
Here’s the quotation:

One day, Joseph went to town on an errand. Expecting him back for dinner, his parents were alarmed when he did not return. They waited for hours, unable to sleep. At last Joseph opened the door and threw himself into a chair, exhausted.
“Why are you so late?” his father asked.
“I have had the severest chastisement that I ever had in my life,” Joseph said.
“Who has been taking you to task?” demanded his father.
“It was the angel of the Lord,” Joseph replied. “He says I have been negligent.” The day of his next meeting with Moroni was coming soon. “I must be up and doing,” he said. “I must set myself about the things which God has commanded me to do.”19
Note 19 goes to this link:
http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/59
This is Lucy Mack Smith’s history from 1844-5. If you go to the link, you’ll see that the quoted section is lined out.
We wonder, why would Saints misquote and cite a source that was lined out in the original?
_____

Here is the later, corrected version from 1845:
Presently he smiled, and said in a very calm tone, “I have taken the severest chastisement, that I have ever had in my life”.
My husband, supposing it was from some of the neighbors, was quite angry; and observed, “I would would like to know what business any body has to find fault with you.”
“Stop, father, Stop.” said Joseph, “it was the angel of the Lord— as I passed by the hill of Cumorah, where the plates are, the angel of the Lord met me and said, that I had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord; that the time had come for the record to <be> brought forth; and, that I must be up and doing, and set myself about the things which God had commanded me to do: but, Father,’ continued he, ‘give yourself no uneasiness concerning the reprimand that I have received; for I now know the course that I am to pursue; so all will be well.”
http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/111
This statement about Cumorah completely supports the teachings of the prophets that Cumorah is in New York. Here Lucy explains that Joseph knew the name Cumorah even before he got the plates. He could only have learned this from Moroni.
_____
Saints should have used Lucy’s later version. In fact they cite the later version in note 22!.
Using the later one should be obvious.
So why did Saints use the old version?
I think the editors of Saints avoided the corrected version because they realize it refutes M2C.*
The editors will say that they are neutral on the question of Book of Mormon geography, including the New York Cumorah.
But is that a reason to quote and cite a passage they know Lucy later corrected, especially without telling readers what they’re doing?
_____
The M2C intellectuals always have a rationale for disbelieving early Church history accounts that contradict their theory. They have said we should disbelieve Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Lucy Smith, among others.
In this case, they claim we should disbelieve Lucy because she must have added this comment about Cumorah because she was confused; i.e., by the time she dictated this history in 1845, the New York Cumorah was well established by Letter VII, D&C 128, etc. Therefore, according to the M2C intellectuals, we can’t believe what Lucy wrote here.
And, apparently, the editors of Saints agreed with their M2C friends.
But consider this.
Just because the original sources are not “neutral” on Book of Mormon geography, does that give the editors of Saints the right to revise Church history?
I think not.
One of the tragedies of Saints is that it is teaching the world the revisionist Church history, not what the original documents actually say.
_____
Here is one of the practical consequences of this revisionist history.
Had Saints explained what Lucy said–what she directly quoted Joseph Smith as saying–readers would understand that Joseph knew the name of the hill before he even translated the plates.
Readers would realize that Joseph could have learned that only from Moroni.
And readers would realize that all the prophets and apostles who have taught that Cumorah is in New York were correct, while the M2C scholars who have taught that Cumorah cannot be in New York were not correct.
That would go a long way toward building unity in the Church.
Members everywhere would align themselves to what the prophets have taught instead of being misled by the teachings of the M2C intellectuals.
Now you see why the M2C intellectuals and their citation cartel don’t want members of the Church to even know about this.
_____
This may appear to be nit-picking, but I think this is a serious problem.
Even people fairly familiar with Church history would have passed this by unawares.
The millions of Church members around the world, in all languages, plus future generations, have no hope of learning the truth when Saints is deliberately suppressing and changing Church history this way.
_____
BTW, the same M2C intellectuals who cite Lucy’s account for other details–Lucy is the sole source for many important events in early Church history–insist she was wrong about this. She had a poor memory, they say, or she conflated this account with another account.
Those of us who accept Lucy’s account point to two important indicia of credibility and reliability.
First, the earlier draft was lined out and replaced with more detail. Lucy directed the revisions, an indication that when she read the first draft, she realized it was not completely accurate. For example, the first account has the angel telling Joseph he was “negligent,” but the revised account has the angel telling Joseph he “had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord.” Which sounds more like the words of Moroni?
Second, Lucy’s account of Joseph learning the name Cumorah from Moroni has corroboration in other historical accounts. For example, the Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, a source cited in Saints (note 4 to Chapter 4), includes this quotation from Oliver Cowdery’s teachings to the Lamanites in Kansas: “This Book, which contained these things, was hid in the earth by Moroni, in a hill called by him, Cumorah, which hill is now in the State of New York, near the village of Palmyra, in Ontario county.” p. 57.
It’s possible Lucy knew what Oliver was teaching, but she didn’t get it from Pratt’s autobiography because it was not published until many years after this 1845 version of Lucy’s account was written.
_____
To summarize: Saints presented an opportunity to inform Church members about the truth.
The historians claim they are neutral on the New York Cumorah. That appears to be the reason they chose to mislead readers by not citing and quoting Lucy’s corrected account.
What they’re really saying is, the original sources are not neutral. They clearly taught that Cumorah is in New York.
The problem is not limited to Saints. The M2C ideology has been inserted throughout the commentary to the Joseph Smith Papers.
As a result, future generations will have no chance to learn the actual history and what the prophets have taught.
Critics of the Church will continue to point out the disparity between what the prophets have taught and the revisionist Church history as a weapon to undermine faith.
I think it would be far better to report the truth in the first place.
Of course, I also think it would be better to sustain the teachings of the prophets about the New York Cumorah, but the exact opposite is going on at BYU/CES/COB.” Jonathan Neville
More Details below about Historical LDS Book Edits
BLOG “Lamanites” and “Cumorah” not in Saints Book
BLOG Why Ideological Edits by Scholars & Historians?
BLOG “Religious Faith has Little Influence on Mormon Scholars” WHY
BLOG Wentworth Letter- Why was a Church Manual Edited?
“Rods, Staffs & Sticks”
Those who have not the gift of revelation and gift prophecy, and do not understand the “language of the fathers,” in translating scriptures, have a much different understanding and interpretation of the wording reviewed here, than those who do. So these things can only be fully understood by the Spirit, and naturally much of what is stated here is not to be taken as fully valid, but too much of the philosophies of man. Because of my extensive background and experience in translating the Hebrew Old Testament into English, I would give a much different approach. But the conclusion of Oliver’s gift of Aaron and the rod, would be more related to the Lord saying (in another context) that he would smite with the rod of his mouth (D&C 19:15), his word, revelation. In addition, there are too many assumptions made about Oliver having a diving rod, etc., which assumptions have contradictions.