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There “is” a Cave in Hill Cumorah- Apologetics Differ

One Question, Two Opinions:
Is there a Cave in Hill Cumorah New York, containing all the
Nephite & Jaredite Records?

Absolutely, Yes says FIRM

Absolutely Not, says FAIR

Defining Apologetics

Apologetics cannot prove that the Church is true, but it can show you answers that may help you in knowing the Church is true, especially through personal revelation.

FIRM and FAIR are both similar organizations as both are made up of great spiritual people who love the Lord and the Book of Mormon. Both claim to have answers to many challenging or even difficult gospel questions that may encourage or assist people to better understand the truthfulness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Neither organization speak in behalf of, or for the Church. Doctrine in the Church only comes from the Prophet and Apostles who both organizations support. Some have called these organizations, Apologists for the Church. (Others include, Book of Mormon Central, and The Interpreter). 

The purpose of LDS Apologetics is to provide solid or well reasoned information that makes sense in answering supposed church related difficult questions, so that a conclusive decision of the truth of the Gospel and Church can be determined by study and prayer through the Spirit.

Tickets

Austin Farrer, an English Anglican philosopher, theologian, and biblical scholar wrote, in the mid-19th century, “Though argument does not create conviction, lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish.”

 

Truth and Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned. A personal witness from the Holy Ghost must be the primary evidence for the reality of God, the divinity of Christ and the authority of the scriptures. “No man can say that the Jesus is the Lord,” wrote Paul, (I Corinthians 12:3) “but by the Holy Ghost.” Faithful, reasoned and rational argument, however, can open hearts and minds to the witness of the Spirit. Apologetics cannot prove that the Church is true, but it can show you answers that may help you in knowing the Church is true, especially through personal revelation.

Personal Revelation

Art by Ken Corbett

As our dear Prophet said, “Does God really want to speak to you? Yes! “As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course … as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.

You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.

I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson


Question: Is there a cave in the Hill Cumorah containing the Nephite records?

We quote FAIR here:
“Brigham Young related a story about how the plates were returned to Moroni in a cave in the Hill Cumorah

On June 17, 1877, Brigham Young related the following at a conference:

I believe I will take the liberty to tell you of another circumstance that will be as marvelous as anything can be. This is an incident in the life of Oliver Cowdery, but he did not take the liberty of telling such things in meeting as I take. I tell these things to you, and I have a motive for doing so. I want to carry them to the ears of my brethren and sisters, and to the children also, that they may grow to an understanding of some things that seem to be entirely hidden from the human family. Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: “This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.” [1]

Art by Jon McNaughton

Editors Note by FIRM: Left off of the Brigham Young quote above is the final sentence by Brigham saying, “I tell you this as coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it just as well as we understand coming to this meeting. . . . [Don] Carlos Smith was a young man of as much veracity as any young man we had, and he was a witness to these things. Samuel Smith saw some things, Hyrum saw a good many things, but Joseph was the leader.” This adds additional witnesses to Brigham’s own words.

FAIR Continues, “The geologic unlikelihood of a cave existing within the drumlin in New York called “Hill Cumorah” suggests that the experience related by the various witnesses was most likely a vision.

There are at least ten second hand accounts describing the story of the cave in Cumorah, however, Joseph Smith himself did not record the incident. [2] As mentioned previously, the Hill Cumorah located in New York state is a drumlin: this means it is a pile of gravel scraped together by an ancient glacier. The geologic unlikelihood of a cave existing within the hill such as the one described suggests that the experience related by the various witnesses was most likely a vision, or a divine transportation to another locale (as with Nephi’s experience in 1 Nephi 11:1). John Tvedtnes supports this view:

“The story of the cave full of plates inside the Hill Cumorah in New York is often given as evidence that it is, indeed, the hill where Mormon hid the plates. Yorgason quotes one version of the story from Brigham Young and alludes to six others collected by Paul T. Smith. Unfortunately, none of the accounts is firsthand. The New York Hill Cumorah is a [drumlin] laid down anciently by a glacier in motion. It is comprised of gravel and earth. Geologically, it is impossible for the hill to have a cave, and all those who have gone in search of the cave have come back empty-handed. If, therefore, the story attributed to Oliver Cowdery (by others) is true, then the visits to the cave perhaps represent visions, perhaps of some far distant hill, not physical events.[3]”

Given that the angel Moroni had retrieved the plates from Joseph several times previously, it is not unreasonable to assume that he was capable of transporting them to a different location than the hill in New York. As Tvedtnes asks, “If they could truly be moved about, why not from Mexico, for example?”[3] Written by FAIRMORMON

Notes

  1. Jump up Brigham Young, “TRYING TO BE SAINTS, etc.,” (June 17, 1877) Journal of Discourses 19:38.
  2. Jump up Cameron J. Packer, “Cumorah’s Cave,” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 13/1 (2004): 50–57. off-site wiki
  3. ↑ Jump up to:3.0 3.1 John A. Tvedtnes, “Review of Little Known Evidences of the Book of Mormon by Brenton G. Yorgason,” FARMS Review of Books 2/1 (1990): 258–259. off-site

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Is_there_a_cave_in_the_Hill_Cumorah_containing_the_Nephite_records%3F


 


As you read our answer about the truth as we understand it coming from Brigham Young, in regard to him saying there was a cave at Cumorah, understand the basic differences between our two apologetic opinions below.

FIRM Says:
We believe Brigham Young, Oliver Cowdery, Samuel Smith, Don Carlos Smith, and Hyrum Smith wouldn’t have made these stories up about the cave at Cumorah, and they are true based on information.
FAIR says:
“There are at least ten second hand accounts describing the story of the cave in Cumorah”, so they insinuate you should believe none of them for the only reason that they are second hand.

Art by Val Bagley

FIRM Says:
We don’t believe these stories were simply dreams or visions, but are the witnessed words as best written down by others about a literal cave in New York.
FAIR Says:
“The experience related by the various witnesses was most likely a vision.” Since they have not found such a cave they are dismissing it.
FIRM Says:
How do you know a drumlin could not have a natural or a man made cave in it? (See my blog here, where I have shown an actual picture taken in about 2009 of a man made cave in hill the NY Cumorah by a reputable friend.
FAIR Says:
“Geologic unlikelihood of a cave existing within the drumlin in New York called “Hill Cumorah”
FIRM Says:
Hill Cumorah is in New York where all the records of both Jaredites and Nephites were buried. This is the same hill where both final battles occurred. (Many quotes here)
FAIR Says:
The final battles of Cumorah and Ramah occurred somewhere in a hill in Mexico. There was not room on hill Cumorah in New York for millions of people.”
FIRM Says:
There is no need to have millions of people “on” Hill Cumorah as that speaks against the scripture saying, “we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents “around about” the hill Cumorah; Mormon 6:4. [Not “on” the Hill, around about].

FAIR Says:
The Sword of Laban and Liahona were buried in the hill in New York with the plates, breastplate and spectacles.

FIRM SAYS: Buried in the stone box of hill Cumorah in New York were the following. Gold Plates, Breastplate, Two clear stones fastened to a silver bow like a pair of spectacles. (JSH 1:35) There was no sword or Liahona, as they were in the Cave at Cumorah.

FIRM SAYS FINALLY:
At some point you must trust the combined words of prophets and leaders when they speak themselves, and you must also believe the scriptures, and most of all you should pray about what you find, as Moroni said, “we may know the truth of all things”. This is also why FIRM believes there is only one Hill Cumorah in New York and the Book of Mormon was not translated ever using a stone in a hat. No scripture says that, but here are many scriptures that say Joseph used the Interpreters and Urim and Thummim, (JSH 1:35,52,62,75*; Mosiah 28:13, 20; Ether 3:22-23; 4:5; Alma 37:21, 24-25) As you see in the painting below it is shown as the most likely way the various translations were done. (With Emma and with Oliver)

“Mother I have got the Key” by Anne Marie Oborn- The plates, and spectacles were hidden by the linen and the hat, the breastplate is under Joseph shirt. Joseph was commanded to not show those items unless told. No Curtain was used. (See blog here)
“These Stones, Fastened to a Breastplate” by Anne Marie Oborn- None of the three items are hidden, as we know through scripture that Oliver described the method of translation saying, “Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.'” JSH 1:75*

FIRM believes the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary below.
A most reliable source about the Cave in Cumorah.

1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, a most amazing book that speaks a lot about North American verification of Book of Mormon geography. Three First Presidencies and other General Authorities, share their witnesses!

The First Presidency in 1923 of Heber J Grant, Charles W. Penrose and Anthony W. Ivins and again in 1950 The Publication Committee of  Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee and Marion G. Romney, assigned by Pres George Albert Smith, approved some historical information from Church History that has much to do with Book of Mormon Geography. The last edition of the commentary was also published in 1978 by Deseret Book and approved by Pres Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner and Marion G. Romney. What great strength this gives us about the truth of the existence of this Cave at Cumorah and there being 2 sets of plates as the Doctrine and Covenants says in D&C 10.

Two Discussions- Two Sets of Plates, and a Cave at Cumorah

Summary of what the First Presidency Approved in Commentary of the Doctrine and Covenants.

1- There existed two separate sets of plates that Joseph translated. The original plates found in the Stone Box at Cumorah which included the lost 116 pages and the Small Plates of Nephi that were in the Cave at Cumorah. D&C 10 says, And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands, is engraven upon the plates of Nephi; Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi. And now, because the account which is engraven upon the plates of Nephi is more particular concerning the things which, in my wisdom, I would bring to the knowledge of the people in this account—Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, [2nd set of plates] down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained; And behold, you shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words.” D&C 10:38-42

2- There existed in Hill Cumorah a Cave in a separate place other than the stone box where Joseph found the plates. This cave was in the same Hill Cumorah and contained the Sword of Laban, Liahona, and wagon loads of plates from previous generations. [See quotes below]

3- A messenger named *Nephi, one of the 3 Nephites, took the plates from Joseph Smith in Harmony when he was finished with them. This same messenger refused a ride in David Whitmer’s wagon as Nephi was going to Cumorah, while Whitmer, Cowdery and Smith were going to Fayette.
*
“I have heard my grandmother (Mary Musselman Whitmer) say on several occasions that she was shown the plates of the Book of Mormon by a holy angel, whom she always called Brother Nephi.”  John C. Whitmer’s 1878 account, as recorded by Andrew Jenson [Page 37] (see his Latter-Day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia 1:283, Salt Lake City, Utah: 1901):

4- This same messenger [Nephi] showed the second set of plates to Mary Whitmer, David’s mother in Fayette before Joseph began translating this second set of plates, which would become 1 Nephi to Mosiah in our current Book of Mormon. This replaced the Book of Lehi which was the Lost 116 pages.

5- You will see below that three different First Presidencies approved of the fact there was a Cave at Cumorah and that fact is found in Doctrine and Covenants Commentary 1923.

One quote below (In Green) is from Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, about the Cave at Cumorah existing in upstate NY and wasn’t just a dream or vision somewhere in Mexico as some suggest. It was the place that all of the Nephite and Jaredite records and the Liahona, Sword of Laban and other artifacts were stored.

Here is what Orson Pratt taught about the two depositories in the Hill Cumorah. “These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)

Two Sets of Plates by Jonathan Neville

A second bit of history (In Green Below) from David Whitmer about a messenger appearing to him and Oliver and Joseph on the way to Fayette who was carrying the plates Joseph just finished translating in Harmony. They were in a knapsack on his back. The messenger appeared to them riding in the wagon and was taking this first set of plates to the Cumorah Cave, where the messenger would deposit them. The messenger then retrieves the “Small Plates of Nephi” [D&C 10:38] from the Cave at Cumorah, and later shows this second set of plates to Mary Whitmer and then to Joseph to translate in Fayette. This set of plates replaced the Book of Lehi or the lost 116 pages which was part of the first set of plates.

Editor’s Note: It has also become a problem as some scholars insist the Gold Plates were simply a prop and Joseph Smith never translated from them. There is also a rumor many scholars insist that most of the Book of Mormon was transcribed by Joseph Smith looking into a hat with a seer stone and repeating the words on the stone he saw, to Oliver Cowdery. I hope you as a concerned member to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be aware of these possible misconceptions and stick with what the scriptures say and with what the Prophets teach. Although I believe Joseph had such seer stones, I don’t believe any of the Book of Mormon was translated using a seer stone in a hat, but was translated by the gift and Power of God, using the Urim and Thummim, or Interpreters as called in the Book of Mormon, which consisted of a large breastplate and two clear stones in the rims of a bow like a pair of spectacles. The breastplate was hidden under Joseph’s shirt and this farmers hat was used as a prop to block the sight of the spectacles from Emma Smith. See complete blog here:

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Oliver Cowdery said, “I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by the book, Holy Interpreters. I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was transcribed. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the Holy Interpreters.”

Presidencies Speak of True Geography

Doctrine and Covenants Commentary Revision 1950

Between 1913 and 1916 Hyrum Smith of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles along with Elder Janne M. Sjodahl articulated a commentary of the Doctrine of Covenants which was approved by these two Presidencies as accurate and approved history as contained in the D&C Commentary of 1923 and 1950.

[The Doctrine and the Covenants Commentary] “A doctrinal and exegetical commentary on the book of scripture, known as the “Doctrine and Covenants” (the “D&C”), sacred to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” The Doctrine and the Covenants Commentary by Hyrum M. Smith (Picture left)

Exegetical Definition:

The message finds its sole source in Scripture. The message is extracted from Scripture through careful exegesis. The message preparation correctly interprets Scripture in its normal sense and its context. The message clearly explains the original God-intended meaning of Scripture. The message applies the Scriptural meaning for today.

The Doctrine and Covenants Containing Revelations Given To Joseph Smith, Jr., The Prophet, with an Introduction and Historical and Exegetical Notes By Hyrum M Smith, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles. And Janne M. Sjodahl.

“Commentaries on the Doctrine and Covenants follow the pattern of many biblical commentaries, supplying the historical context, that is, the time, circumstances, and situation of the revelations. In the most recent (1981) edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, headnotes for each section have been added or enlarged, with a brief synopsis of the historical setting. Additional notes and explanations are provided by the various separately published commentaries discussed here. Commentaries written by members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are given special consideration. Others are recommended as helps to the membership of the Church to provide historical insight to their study of the scriptures.

An early (1916) and still useful one-volume commentary was written by Hyrum M. Smith, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and Janne M. Sjodahl. Doctrine and Covenants Commentary contains the text of the Doctrine and Covenants and gives historical background and commentary for each section. It is extensively footnoted with exegetical notes. The volume was later supplemented and expanded under the direction of Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee, and Marion G. Romney of the Quorum of the Twelve in 1950.” Doctrine and Covenants Commentaries Author: Garrett, H. Dean


Preface To the Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary

In the preface to the 1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, we find the following:

“While laboring in the European Missions, Elder Hyrum M. Smith, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, and Elder Janne M. Sjodahl, were impressed very fervently with the desire to prepare a commentary dealing with the revelations given by the Lord to the Prophet Joseph Smith. In their odd moments, when not otherwise engaged, during the years 1913-1916, these brethren carried on a careful research and study and prepared this volume which has met with popular favor.

For a number of years, the commentary has been out of circulation, and because of the increasing demand for it, the First Presidency instructed the Publication Committee to take the matter in hand and revise the volume ready for a re-printing. This the committee has done and after many months of labor has fulfilled the assignment given.

Since the time of the first publication many world-wide events of the greatest importance have occurred many of which have a bearing on the fulfillment of the prophecies found in the Doctrine and Covenants; these have been noted. The Doctrine and Covenants is a sacred volume of Scripture, and in the revision and preparation of the book, the members of the committee have felt their weakness in commenting on these sacred commandments and revelations coming from the Lord.”

THE PUBLICATION COMMITTEE 1950

(Note; Not the First Presidency)
Joseph Fielding Smith
Harold B. Lee
Marion G. Romney

1950 First Presidency

(Who assigned Publication Committee)
George Albert Smith
J. Reuben Clark
David O McKay

Within this Commentary are two sections which contain comments pertinent to Book of Mormon geography.

1. The first has to do with Section 9. This section is a revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania in April, 1829. Oliver had attempted to translate without success. Verse 1-2 are as follows:

“Behold, I say unto you, my son, that because you did not translate according to that which you desired of me, and did commence again to write for my servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., even so I would that ye should continue until you have finished this record, which I have entrusted unto him. And then, behold, other records have I, that I will give unto you power that you may assist to translate. . . .”

In a verse note on the bottom of page 45 we find the following:

Other records] Other Nephite records. Oliver Cowdery, if he had remained faithful, would have had the privilege of assisting in their translation. He, however, was outside the Church, because of transgression, for eleven years, and although he was again received in full fellowship, some of the blessings he had lost could not be recovered.” 1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary page 45-46

Then in a related “General Notes” on a page which follows we find the following:

Other records” are referred to in the 2nd paragraph of page 47 below. On that subject President Brigham Young makes the following statement: [The “Cave Story” is then recited as it appears in the 1877 notation– which is a discourse by Brigham Young delivered at a Special Conference held at Farmington, Utah on June 17,1877.]

Note* That such a story would be included in the 1923 edition is significant; that such a story would be upheld by Apostles in the publication committee of the Revised Edition is also significant.

2. The second has to do with Section 84, a revelation on Priesthood. Verse 42 reads: ” . . . and even I [the Lord] have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.” In a comment on this verse we find the following:

“I have given * ** * charge concerning you] Note that the Lord in conferring the Priesthood upon the Elders present when this Revelation was given, assured them that angels had been appointed to guard them. The first Christians believed in guardian angels. . . .”

The following anecdote, which was told by David Whitmer to Elders Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith in 1878, may be retold here: [The David Whitmer story of meeting an angel “going to Cumorah” –see the 1878 notation– is then recited.]

Note* This story, like the Cave Story, reinforces the New York Hill Cumorah as a repository of the Nephite records. Since the last edition of the book would be published in 1978 by Deseret Book, these stories (reviewed by Apostles) would add authoritative weight to a New York Hill Cumorah viewpoint.

1978 First Presidency

Spencer W, Kimball
N. Eldon Tanner
Marion G. Romney


Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 17 June 1877 below:

“You hear a great deal said about finding money. There is no difficulty at all in finding money, but there are a great many people who do not know what to do with it when they do find it. This is the great defect with the human family. I could relate many very singular circumstances. I lived right in the country where the plates were found from which the Book of Mormon was translated, and I know a great many things pertaining to that country. I believe I will take the liberty to tell you of another circumstance that will be as marvelous as anything can be. This is an incident in the life of Oliver Cowdery, but he did not take the liberty of telling such things in meeting as I take. I tell these things to you, and I have a motive for doing so. I want to carry them to the ears of my brethren and sisters, and to the children also, that they may grow to an understanding of some things that seem to be entirely hidden from the human family. Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants.

General Notes Page 47

“When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: ‘This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.’ I tell you this as coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it just as well as we understand coming to this meeting, enjoying the day, and by and by we separate and go away, forgetting most of what is said, but remembering some things. So is it with other circumstances in life. I relate this to you, and I want you to understand it. I take this liberty of referring to those things so that they will not be forgotten and lost. Carlos Smith was a young man of as much veracity as any young man we had, and he was a witness to these things. Samuel Smith saw some things, Hyrum saw a good many things, but Joseph was the leader.

Now, you may think I am unwise in publicly telling these things, thinking perhaps I should preserve them in my own breast; but such is not my mind. I would like the people called Latter-day Saints to understand some little things with regard to the workings and dealings of the Lord with his people here upon the earth. I could relate to you a great many more, all of which are familiar to many of our brethren and sisters.” Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 1XIX., p. 38).”1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary page 47-48 The crossed out lines above are not seen in the Commentary, I included them so you could see what was left out.

“The following anecdote, which was told by David Whitmer to Elders Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith in 1878, may be retold here:

“When I was returning to Fayette, with Joseph and Oliver, all of us riding in the wagon. Oliver and I on an old- fashioned wooden spring seat and Joseph behind us — while traveling along in a clear open space, a very pleasant, nice-looking old man suddenly appeared by the side of the wagon and saluted us with, ‘Good morning, it is very warm,’ at the same time wiping his face or forehead with his hand. We returned the salutation, and, by a sign from Joseph, I invited him to ride if he was going our way; but he said very pleasantly, ‘No, I am going to Cumorah.’ This name was something new to me; I did not know what Cumorah meant. We all gazed at him and at each other, and as I looked around inquiringly of Joseph, the old man instantly disappeared, so that I did not see him again.” Whitmer described his appearance and added, it was the messenger who had the plates [of the Book of Mormon], who had taken them from Joseph just prior to our starting from Harmony”(Andrew Jensen, Historical Record, p. 209)”. 1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary page 508


Quotes from D&C Commentary 1950

D&C Sec 3:19 Page 22 Commentary

The First Presidency in 1923 of Heber J Grant, Charles W. Penrose and Anthony W. Ivins and again in 1950 The Publication Committee of Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee and Marion G. Romney, assigned by Pres George Albert Smith, approved some historical information from Church History that has much to do with Book of Mormon Geography. The last edition of the commentary was also published in 1978 by Deseret Book and approved by Pres Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner and Marion G. Romney.


Notice what D&C 3:19 says: “And for this very purpose are these plates preserved, which contain these records—that the promises of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to his people;”

Notice what the Commentary from these inspired Prophets says:

19. For this very purpose) The Book of Mormon plates were preserved and translated in order that all these should be brought to a knowledge of the Savior. It may be concluded, then, that among the American Indians and the Polynesians who are mostly the descendants of the Lamanites, is also a sprinkling of the descendants of the Nephites who may have escaped the general destruction. D&C Sec 3 page 22 Doctrine and Covenants Commentary by Sjodahl and Smith


D&C Sec 5 Page 30

31. Except Thou do this] Unless the Prophet followed the instructions here given, the plates and the sacred instrument would be taken from him.

This is a remarkable Revelation. It furnishes an irrefutable proof that the Prophet Joseph actually had the plates. He promised that Martin Harris, on certain conditions, which he could easily comply with, should obtain a view of them. Such a promise, if the records had not been in existence, would have been impossible to redeem. It would have been mere buffoonery. The fraud would have been detected at once. The promise was repeated a few months later (Sec 17) to two more witnesses. Joseph had the plates and the Urim and Thummim, and this Revelation proves the truth of that assertion.


D&C 6 Page 32

According to his own statement at Council Bluffs on October 21st, 1848, Oliver Cowdery wrote the entire Book (save a few pages) as the words fell from the lips of the Prophet, “as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by that Book, ’holy interpreters.’” So that the testimony of Oliver Cowdery was as firm in 1848, two years before his death as it was in 1829, when he first accepted the gospel, although he had been outside the Church for eleven years. When Joseph and Oliver had been engaged on the Book of Mormon a few days, this Revelation was received.


1923 First Presidency

Heber J Grant
Charles W. Penrose
Anthony W. Ivins


Source: MUCH OF THIS BLOG WAS USED FROM:
A Chronology of LDS Thought on Book of Mormon Geography of the New World Statements by Church Authorities 1921 —–> 1980 Copyright 2003 by Alan C. Miner. All rights reserved

https://stepbystep.alancminer.com/node/2256
1923 Hyrum M. Smith Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, Salt Lake City: The

Janne M. Sjodahl Deseret News Press, 1923, 1932. Reprinted in 1950, 1951, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1971, 1978.

In the preface to the Original Edition, we find the following:

Before laying aside the pen, I may be permitted to express my grateful acknowledgment of the services rendered by Elder Orson F. Whitney and Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, of the Council of the Twelve, who, together with Elder Hyrum M. Smith, carefully read the manuscript of this Commentary before it was given to the printer; also to Elder George F. Richards, of the Council of the Twelve and President of the European mission, and to Elders John E. Cottam, George F. Richards, Jr., and Junius F. Wells, fellow-laborers int he British mission, for most valuable assistance.

Liverpool, May 1, 1919. J. M. Sjodahl.


Art by Val Chadwick Bagley showing these two historical narratives in pictures.
Purchase his entire book here:

Proper Translation 26- Page Article Here

America is a Covenant Land–and that Still Matters!

Tim Ballard Live in Salt Lake Oct 22!

Our special guest at the 30th International Book of Mormon Evidence Conference, is our good friend, Tim Ballard. There is no one more patriotic, more in tune with the founding fathers, the abolitionist movement, the Pilgrims and Native Americans, and the founding of America than Tim. He has teamed up with Glenn Beck and with David Barton supporting many fantastic foundations including Nazarene Fund, Operation Underground Railroad, Wall Builders, and Children Need Families.

The Title of Tim’s Live Presentation on Sat Oct 22, 2022 at the Salt Palace is:
The Hidden War: The secret agenda to enslave our children in the name of liberating them.”

What a Timely Topic for Today!

Individual 1-day Ticket for Saturday Oct 22,  just $40

Hear Tim Ballard and the Following: Dean Sessions, Hannah Stoddard, Rod Meldrum, David Doane, Bob Wright, Jonathan Neville, Jen and Sophie Two Red Pills, and Kate Dalley from 9 am to 7 pm Sat Oct 22.

Individual 3-day Ticket for Th, Fr, and Sat, see over 75 speakers, just $60
See Schedule of all Speakers here:


Current Streaming Subscribers can listen to Tim’s previous Firm Foundation Presentations below:

1- The American Covenant: One Nation Under God
2- Patriotic Prophesy: History vs. BofMs Predictions of America’s Foundings
3- Lesson #6 Part 1 Come Follow Me (2 Nephi 1-5) Book of Mormon Evidence 

If you haven’t subscribed to our Streaming service, you can view over 800 presentations by our previous speakers, like Rod Meldrum, Wayne May, Hannah Stoddard and hundreds more. Streaming Membership Here


Pilgrims

“The Declaration of Independence states that one of our unalienable rights is the pursuit of happiness. It is clear from the records of both Virginia and Massachusetts at the time that this phrase meant the right to privately own property. However, what is also clear is that the unalienable right we have is to pursue happiness and not obtain happiness.

Today Americans often mistake the meaning of this phrase and think that their government owes them happiness in all flavors, to be claimed by them at any time.

What Leo Martin has done is to clearly articulate the meaning of this phrase by going to the root of our country, the Pilgrims. No other people at the time of our nation’s initial development portray, as families and a migrating Church, the meaning of pursuing happiness under the Hand of a Sovereign God better than this tiny band!

Though never in a majority and never wealthy; these Pilgrims considered themselves to be rich in spiritual treasure. Though they never sought a shrine to honor themselves, centuries of Americans have honored them as the spark, the root and founders of our God-given liberties… sadly, today the contribution made by these humble and truly great founders has mostly been forgotten.

It is time we returned to what truly made America great. It is time we remembered the true source of the liberty they sparked when they first invoked the Biblical covenant that brought God’s protection and blessings upon the land. They humbly pledged to serve God and manifest that by simple faith, heart-felt devotion and iron-clad character.
While the seeds they planted eventually grew into a tree much larger, more glorious and diverse than they may have ever anticipated, their love of family, their commitment to liberty and justice, and their faith in God stand as a beacon pointing us today in the direction to which our nation must turn to recover from her profound amnesia.

Let this little book, written by the great historian-patriot, Leo Martin, be read and re-read to your children and grandchildren, that the stories of our past may come alive again.”
By Leo Martin of Plymouth, MA

INVOKE THE AMERICAN COVENANT

“Call down the blessings of heaven on this nation by helping us finish Lincoln’s work to liberate all His children from the darkness of human slavery and educate on liberty.” Americancovenant.org

Once on Tim’s website, Scroll down the main page to Videos to watch

AMERICA IS A COVENANT LAND—AND THAT STILL MATTERS!
By Tim Ballard

“I do declare that I thought all London was afloat.”[i] So exclaimed one witness who, in August 1776, stood on the shores of New York harbor awaiting sure destruction. What the witness beheld was the largest naval fleet ever sent from one nation to another nation at that point in history. The British were coming in grand style to quash the American rebellion once and for all. When the British first arrived in with 400 sleek British ships and 32,000 men under the command of General William Howe, he offered a pardon to the rebels, to which Washington answered, “Those who have committed no fault want no pardon.”1 

The Battle of Long Island by Alonzo Chappel

What was America to do? Her cause was all but lost. Certainly General Washington, waiting in relative safety in New York City, would not walk into this British trap. Certainly he would not lead his men—his citizen-soldiers—eastward across the mile-wide East River, to meet the foe in direct combat. Certainly he would not allow his army to become trapped on Long Island with such a lethal and fearsome enemy. The British not only outnumbered the Americans 2 to 1, and not only did the British overwhelm them in terms of skill and resources, but the Red Coats were en route to surround Long Island. Land troops rushed westward toward Washington, while state-of-the-art British war ships made their way up the East River.

Map showing Howe’s attack upon Washington’s forces on Long Island – Library of Congress

And yet, inexplicably, Washington did just that. Virtually all of the Continental soldiers found themselves—at the behest of their leader—caught in the ultimate British trap. The Red Coats proceeded to brutalize the Americans at Long Island in the first major battle of the war. All the Americans could do was flee with all their might westward back toward the river in hopes of escaping back into the city. Caught! The British ships were already positioning themselves in the East River to cut off the evacuation.  

At this point, it might have been said that George Washington was one of the most foolhardy military commanders in history. Or perhaps there was something else. Perhaps George Washington was in possession of a secret—a secret that would be responsible not only for liberating the Americans at Long Island, but for securing American independence and creating the greatest nation ever known to mankind.

Washington directed a few of his soldiers to stoke the campfires and make the British believe the Americans were bedding down for the night. Confidently, the British went to sleep knowing they would fully conquer the rebels—whom they called the “ramble in arms”—in the morning. In the meantime, however, Washington ordered his thousands of troops to evacuate across the river, under the cover of darkness.

At this very moment, while the British fleet was racing up the East River intending to crush any such rebel evacuation attempt, a ferocious wind began pushing the British vessels backwards. A total of five ships carrying over seventy-two guns attempted—but failed—to advance up the river to cut off the Americans.[ii] Washington thus gained a small window of opportunity to evacuate his troops from this would-be British slaughterhouse. Though at first the same wind that disrupted the British was also obstructing the American effort to cross the river, a little after nine, the wind miraculously shifted to a westerly direction, facilitating the exodus with most favorable conditions.[iii]

Washington overseeing the retreat from Long Island

But even with the favorable wind, the night was fading fast. The rising sun would soon expose Washington’s scheme to the full view of the British. Another miracle was needed. Pulitzer Prize-winning historian, David McCullough, explains:

Troops in substantial number had still to be evacuated and at the rate things were going, it appeared day would dawn before everyone was safely removed. But again the “elements” interceded, this time in the form of pea-soup fog. It was called “a peculiar providential occurrence,” “manifestly providential,” “very favorable to the design,” “an unusual fog,” “a friendly fog,” “an American fog.” “So very dense was the atmosphere,” remembers Benjamin Tallmadge, “that I could scarcely discern a man at six yards’ distance.” And as daylight came, the fog held, covering the entire operation no less than had the night…while over on the New York side of the river there was no fog at all.[iv]                     

The Americans had escaped! The Revolution would live on! It was a miracle!

 “That the rebel army had silently vanished in the night right under their very noses,” according to McCullough, “was almost inconceivable.” British Major Stephen Kemble wrote in his diary that “[i]n the morning, to our great astonishment, [we] found they had evacuated…and the whole escaped to…New York.” British General James Grant wrote, “We cannot yet account for their precipitate retreat.”[v]            

THE MIRACLE BEHIND THE MIRACLE

Indeed, Washington knew a secret. It was the secret responsible for the miracle. That secret was his knowledge of God’s covenant upon the land America.

On May 15, 1776, shortly after the Continental Army’s initial arrival at New York, months before the British invasion, Washington prepared his men. Not only did he prepare them physically, but spiritually also. He called them to the covenant. In a General Order, he declared:

Instant to be observed [on Friday the 17th] as a day of fasting, humiliation and prayer, humbly to supplicate the mercy of Almighty God, that it would please him to pardon all our manifold sins and transgressions, and to prosper the Arms of the United Colonies, and finally establish the peace and freedom of America, upon a solid and lasting foundation.[vi]

Then again on July 2, Washington in another General Order would remind his men that “the fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the courage and conduct of this army…Let us therefore rely upon the goodness of the Cause, and the aid of the Supreme Being, in whose hands Victory is.”[vii] Two days later, in Philadelphia, these same sentiments would be immortalized by the Continental Congress in the Declaration of Independence, which concludes, “And for support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”

Washington was so convinced of his utter dependence upon this covenant relationship with God that he would continue to extend reminders and calls to repentance. On July 9, Washington issued another General Order in which he called for chaplains in each regiment to ensure that the soldiers “attend carefully upon religious exercises.” The order concluded with the following: “The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger—the General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a good Christian soldier defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country.”[viii] Just days before battle would commence, Washington issued yet another General Order in which he recommended the keeping of the Sabbath and pleaded with his men to shun the immoral temptations that abounded in the city, exhorting them to “endeavor to check [such behavior] and…reflect, that we can have little hopes of the blessing of Heaven on our Arms, if we insult it by our impiety and folly.”[ix]

Washington Praying Credit: Library of Congress

That Washington was assured the Lord would provide in the upcoming battle is evidenced by the army’s positive response to their commander-in-chief’s spiritual encouragements. One observant New Yorker, unaccustomed to seeing a pious group of soldiers, wrote of his surprise to see how Washington’s men attended prayers “evening and morning regularly.”  “On the Lord’s day,” commented the observer, “they attend public worship twice, and their deportment in the house of God is such as becomes the place.” Washington’s trusted officer, Henry Knox, wrote to his wife that he would daily “rise with or a little before the sun and immediately, with part of the regiment attend prayers, sing a psalm or read a chapter [from the Bible].”[x] They were trying diligently to keep their end of the covenant.

The faith and influence of Washington was extended through other revolutionary leaders who caught his vision and acted upon it. One such leader, Connecticut Governor Jonathon Trumbull, upon learning of Washington’s impending battle, called for nine fresh regiments to march in support of Washington (and this was in addition to the five regiments he had already sent). Trumbull’s call to arms sounded much like something Joshua might have said in the camp of Israel: “Be roused and alarmed to stand forth in our just and glorious cause. Join…march on; this shall be your warrant: play the man for God, and for the cities of our God! May the Lord of Hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, be your leader.”[xi]   

THE NEPHITES KNEW

Captain Moroni raised up his constitution [declaration?], even the Title of Liberty. As the banner unfurled, he had something profound to say to his nation: “Come forth in the strength of the Lord, and enter into a covenant that they [we] will maintain their [our] rights, and their [our] religion, that the Lord God may bless them [us].”[xii] As he raised the banner, Moroni provided proof to the Nephites as to why they were a covenant people living on a covenant land.  “[We must] preserve our liberty as a remnant of Joseph; yea let us remember the words of Jacob, before his death.”[xiii]

CAPTAIN MORONI AND TITLE OF LIBERTY

These words of Jacob included a promise to his son Joseph, that his seed would be “a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well, whose branches run over the wall.” It was a promise of a new land across the sea from the Old World—a land of peace and prosperity. It was a Promised Land protected by “the hands of the mighty God of Jacob” and blessed with blessings “that prevailed…unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills.” In our seminary manuals and Church curriculum, we learn of modern revelation that teaches us that this land promised to the seed of Joseph was in the New World—in the Americas. The marvelous blessing from Jacob to Joseph is found in Genesis 49.[xiv]

So important is this blessing of Joseph’s promised land, that it was first suggested by the Lord to Joseph’s great-grandfather Abraham, at the conception of his great covenant that was to bless the world. Part of that Abrahamic covenant promises that the great patriarch would be the “father of many nations” and many lands, and that “in [his] seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.”[xv]

 Father Lehi understood as well. Before he crossed “over the wall” of water to the Promised Land, he sent his boys back to Jerusalem to acquire the Brass Plates. Why? Was he afraid he would not have material for Sunday School lessons in the New World? No, he was afraid his people would forget who they were, and thus forget the covenant they would need to live by. In explaining to his sons why they needed to return for the plates, he stated:

I am a descendant of Joseph who was carried captive into Egypt. And great were the covenants of the Lord which he made unto Joseph. Wherefore, Joseph truly saw our day. And he obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of his loins the Lord God would raise up a righteous branch unto the house of Israel.[xvi]   

Like Captain Moroni, Lehi knew who he was. He would fulfill the prophecies and promises given to Joseph in Genesis 49. He was to possess a Promised Land. “And if it so be that they shall serve him according to the commandments” declares the Book of Mormon, “…it shall be a land of liberty unto them; wherefore, they shall never be brought down into captivity.”[xvii] The Book of Mormon nations were continually told: “Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper in the land.”[xviii]  

THEREFORE….WHAT?

Why does the Book of Mormon include all this talk of a covenant land? There are at least two reasons. First, the Lord desires to show that it is this covenant upon the land that will protect and preserve the people, thus allowing them to live in liberty. When they are righteous, the blessings flow. When they are not, captivity becomes their reality. This is the constant theme and trend laced throughout the Book of Mormon. And second, the Lord wants to teach us today that America is still a covenant land, and that the rules still apply.

The Nephites knew that without a covenant land and a covenant people in the world, the adversary would have free reign to buy up armies and navies and rule with blood and horror upon this earth. He will crush the agency of man, as was his goal from the beginning. For without full agency, man can hardly access the gospel of salvation. Satan has been successful. But God has not been idle in this fight. He would provide another promised land, as He had for the Nephites, for His latter-day children. He would not let His gospel fall victim to the adversary’s attack on liberty. That promised land was always to be the United States of America!

Consider how even a cursory review of American history reveals a consistent pattern: where goes the adversary, with its political and military tools of oppression and thus spiritual obstruction, there goes America to confront and defeat it; and where goes America to confront and defeat it, there goes the heavenly influence of the constitutional principles of liberty and free agency; and where go these divine principles, there goes man’s opportunity for personal growth and the introduction and advancement of God’s restored gospel. Wherever America has engaged evil in the world (whether through example, diplomacy, or even war), temples have eventually followed.

It should be of little wonder that God Himself declared that He had “established” the American nation for the very purposes outlined above: for the “rights and protection of all flesh…that every man may act…according to the moral agency which I have given  unto him.”[xix]

So important is the United States to God’s plan, that its covenant status is clearly described in the Book of Mormon. The resurrected Christ, while administering to the Nephite nation, pronounced that latter-day America would “be set up as a free people by the power of the Father…that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled.”[xx] Nephi knew that these national covenant blessings would provide the foundation for the Restoration of the gospel in the latter days. He describes that latter-day Restoration in his concluding prophecies recorded in 1 Nephi 13. But shall we forget how Nephi began 1 Nephi 13? He understood that a foundation would first be laid before the Restoration could be launched. That foundation would be the American Covenant.

THE AMERICAN COVENANT RESTORED

Nephi had a vision of latter-day America. That vision culminated in the Restoration of the gospel. But first his eyes were opened to the latter-day national covenant-makers who would make it all possible.  

In his vision, Nephi “beheld a man among the Gentiles.” Nephi declared, “I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land.”[xxi] Some two thousand years later, Christopher Columbus boarded a ship for that promised land and recorded words that might cause us to wonder if somehow he had accessed Nephi’s prophecy even before it had been made available to mankind. For he declared, “Our Lord unlocked my mind, sent me upon the sea, and gave me fire for the deed. Those who heard of my enterprise called it foolish, mocked me, and laughed. But who can doubt but that the Holy Ghost inspired me?”[xxii]

Christopher Columbus

 Astonishingly, Columbus declared that his discovery of the New World “came to pass as Jesus Christ our Savior had predicted and as He had previously announced through the mouths of His holy prophets.”[xxiii] With the discovery completed, Columbus believed, and thus stated, that “the gospel must now be proclaimed to so many lands in such a short time.”[xxiv] More specifically, Columbus taught that his work would lead to what he called “the recovery of God’s Holy City and Mount Zion, and…the evangelization of the isles of the Indies and of all other peoples and nations.”[xxv] No wonder he had been seen in vision by an ancient prophet of God.       

Nephi also beheld the latter-day settlers of the land. He saw that they “had gone forth out of captivity [and] did humble themselves before the Lord.”[xxvi] He saw that they brought the Bible with them to the New World. Nephi declared that the book they had was “a record of the Jews, which contains the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel.”[xxvii] In fulfillment of Nephi’s prophecy, over two thousand years later, the Pilgrims and Puritans did come to the land and they did invoke the covenant. They even referred to themselves as the “New Israel.”[xxviii]

Pilgrims praying on shores of Promised Land

They followed the words of their inspired leader, John Winthrop, who echoed the words of Father Lehi, declaring: “Thus stands the cause between God and us, we are entered into Covenant with him for this work….if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken and so cause Him to withdraw his present help from us, we shall be made a story and a byword through the world.” Winthrop called upon his people to live the commandments that God might make them a “City upon a Hill.”[xxix] 

Nephi’s vision extended into the American Revolution. Declared Nephi, “And I beheld that their mother Gentiles were gathered together upon the waters, and upon the land also, to battle against them. And I beheld that the power of God was with them…[they] were delivered by the power of God.”[xxx] The evidence of this prophetic fulfillment is overwhelming.

We discussed one such miracle at Long Island. But this was not the exception to the Revolution—this was the rule. Similar miracles (even more amazing, in some instances, than Long Island) were witnessed on the battlefields at Boston, Trenton, Princeton, Yorktown, and others. These stories have been intentionally hidden from us by secular historians—but these stories were very real to those who lived them. In the middle of the war, George Washington stood and said, as he did so often, that “Providence has heretofore saved us in remarkable manner and on this we must principally rely.”[xxxi] Covenant words.

THE GREATEST DAY NEVER CELEBRATED

“The smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained.”[xxxii] With independence secured, George Washington stood in Federal Hall, New York City, and declared these covenant words while being inaugurated as the first president of the United States. The date was April 30, 1789—the day the Constitution, even that document which, according to revelation, was based in “holy principles” established to protect “moral agency” for “all flesh,”[xxxiii] came into being. But it was clearly much more than an inauguration. It was the day the covenant was officially invoked over all the land.

Washington taking oath—Allyn Cox

Just before Washington invoked the national covenant through his “Smiles of Heaven” speech, he was sworn in as the first president of the United States. The details of this ceremony were profound. He called for a Bible. He raised his right arm to the square (making the sign of a covenant/oath) while placing his left hand upon the sacred book. After repeating the constitutional oath, he declared, “So help me God,” then bowed down reverently and kissed the Bible.

Few have cared to notice what biblical passage Washington chose to place his hand upon. In fact, historians and commentators, if they choose to note anything about the particular scripture, simply muse at why a deliberate man like Washington, who knew posterity would be watching, did not choose a more important scripture. For the scripture he chose seems irrelevant to most—just some Old Testament babble. In a move almost too astonishing to believe, Washington had placed his hand directly upon Genesis 49—his fingers literally laying upon the words “Joseph is a fruitful bough, whose branches run over the wall…”[xxxiv]

It was the same covenant and prophecy Father Lehi recognized as the purpose of his migration to the Promised Land. It was the same covenant and prophecy Captain Moroni directly referenced as he raised the Title of Liberty, while invoking the national covenant. George Washington did the same thing. Like Moroni, he invoked the covenant using language that was undeniably covenant language, then he hoisted up America’s Title of Liberty (indeed, it marked the day the Constitution came into effect), and then he referenced the exact same ancient prophecy that speaks of America and her covenant.

After the ceremony, Washington descended to the street to be greeted by throngs of Americans. He then led a procession through the streets of New York City. The newly elected congressmen and senators followed close behind. They entered St. Paul’s Chapel. The first joint session of congress commenced. It consisted of a prayer in a church.       

Many secularists believe today that such government-sponsored invocations to God are unconstitutional—that they violate the separation of church and state. But they are wrong. The Founders understood the great difference between “separation of church and state” and “separation of God and state.” The former is a righteous principle that keeps the government out of religious denominations and religious denominations out of the government. The latter, however, leaves us vulnerable and unprotected. It exposes us to the designs of the Evil One.

As Ronald Reagan declared, “Freedom prospers only where the blessings of God are avidly sought and humbly expected.” Quoting William Penn, Reagan continued, “If we will not be governed by God, we must be governed by tyrants.”[xxxv] As evidenced through their words and deeds, the Founding Fathers understood this point clearly.

If secularists are correct, then they would have to admit that the Constitution was violated on April 30, 1789. They would have to make the outrageous claim that on the very day the Constitution was activated, it was simultaneously violated by the very people who brought it to light. Are they willing to say that?

Perhaps we should turn our hearts to the Founders of the nation who understood truth. Or we can ignore them to our own national demise.

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

Today we face serious trouble in this nation. Our economic collapse calls for a new domestic policy. Real threats from hateful terrorist nations and groups call for a new foreign policy. We can debate and discuss policy options all day long (and we should), but it means absolutely nothing if we ignore what the founders left for us—even the key to national salvation. That key is God and covenant. They understood it. They used it to defeat the most powerful military force on the planet, which had landed on their shores (talk about serious trouble!). They used it to create the most powerful and prosperous nation the world has ever known. Against all odds, it worked for them! And, even against all odds, it will work for us today to accomplish our righteous national goals.

So here we are over 200 years later. Next week, we have choices to make that will affect the direction of this nation. It is bigger than one man or one party. This is not about politics—it is about the salvation of this nation and the covenant that built it. The main questions Americans should ask themselves as they enter the polling place are, Which option brings this nation closer to God and covenant? Which potential leaders will more likely turn the nation to righteousness, thus allowing us to merit the covenant blessings from the God of this land? If we can’t get this part right, no policy plans or initiatives will matter anyway.

President Gordon B. Hinckley once issued the following warning to the nation. In light of what American history teaches us, there can be no better national counsel than this:

For a good while there has been going on in this nation a process that I have termed the secularization of America….we as a nation are forsaking the Almighty, and I fear that He will begin to forsake us. We are shutting the door against the God whose sons and daughters we are….Future blessings will come only as we deserve them. Can we expect peace and prosperity, harmony and goodwill, when we turn our backs on the Source of strength? If we are to continue to have the freedoms that evolved within the structure that was the inspiration of the Almighty to our Founding Fathers, we must return to the God who is their true Author….God bless America, for it is His creation. [xxxvi]


[i] David McCullough, 1776, 134, 148.

[ii] McCullough, 1776, 184.

[iii] David McCullough, “What the Fog Wrought,” What If? The World’s Foremost Military Authorities Imagine What Might Have Been, James Cowley, ed., 197.

[iv] McCullough, “What the Fog Wrought,” 198; McCullough, 1776, 191.    

[v] McCullough, 1776, 191-192.

[vi] Bennett, The Spirit of America, 393.

[vii] Novak, Washington’s God, 71.

[viii] Bennett, The Spirit of America, 390.

[ix] Novak, Washington’s God, 89.

[x] McCullough, 1776, 123, 147.

[xi] Jonathon Trumbull, as quoted in Marshall and Manuel, 394.

[xii] Alma 46:20.

[xiii] Alma 46:24.

[xiv] For more information on how this prophecy connects to the New World, see LDS Church Old Testament Student Manuel, Second Edition, Revised (Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1981), 98-99; LDS Church Old Testament Seminary Student Study Guide (Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2002), 40-41.

[xv] See Genesis 17:1-10; 26:1-5, 24; 28:1-4, 10-14; 35:9-13; 48:3-4; Leviticus 26:42; Acts 3:25; Bible Dictionary, “Abraham, Covenant of.” 

[xvi] 2 Ne. 3:4-5; Nephi also stated his knowledge that he was a descendant of Joseph in 2 Ne. 4:1-2.

[xvii] 2 Nephi 1:7.

[xviii] 2 Nephi 1:20; See also 1 Nephi 13:16; 2 Nephi 10:10-12; and Ether 2: 8-12.

[xix] D&C 101:77-80   

[xx] 3 Nephi 21:4.

[xxi] 1 Nephi 13:12

[xxii] Columbus, as quoted in Jacob Wasserman, Columbus, Don Quixote of the Seas, translated by Delno C. West and August Kling (Gainseville, FL: 1991). 

[xxiii] Columbus, as quoted in Christopher Columbus, Libro de las profecias , translated by Delno C. West and August Kling (Gainseville, FL: 1991).  

[xxiv] Christopher Columbus, as quoted in Steven Waldman, Founding Faith: Providence, Politics and the Birth of Religious Freedom in America (New York: Random House, 2008), 4. 

[xxv] Carol Delaney (2006), “Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem.” Comparative Studies in Society and History,48, p. 268.

[xxvi] 1 Nephi 13:16.

[xxvii] 1 Nephi 13:23.

[xxviii] See William J. Bennett, The Spirit of America (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1997), 366.

[xxix] John Winthrop, “A Model of Christian Charity,” Winthrop Papers, 1498-1649, Vol. 2 (Boston: The Massachusetts Historical Society), 282-95; See also H. Sheldon Smith et al, American Christianity, An Historical Interpretation with Representative Documents, Vol.1: 1607-1820 (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1960), 102.

[xxx] See 1 Nephi 13:17-19.

[xxxi] George Washington (January 22, 1777), as quoted in Waldman, Founding Faith, 70.

[xxxii] George Washington’s First Inaugural Address, April 30, 1789, as quoted in Bennett, The Spirit of America, 381-382.

[xxxiii] See Doctrine and Covenants 101:77-80.

[xxxiv] See Bruce Feiler, America’s Prophet (New York: HarperCollins, 2009), 78.

[xxxv] As quoted in Paul Kengor, God and Ronald Reagan, 227.

[xxxvi] Gordon B Hinckley, Standing for Something (New York: Times Books, Random House, Inc., 2000), xviii, xxiii, xxv.

Liberal & Conservative Mormons

What is a Liberal? From Oxford Dictionary, “open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.” Open to new opinions is good isn’t it? Of course it is. But what if the new opinion is to change a proven or traditional law that God has given us? What if we get a majority of opinion that agree with us and disagree with what a so called God says? Does everyone have a right to their own opinion? Of course. This is the tricky part. Not all people have faith in God and don’t even believe in God. Shouldn’t we respect their opinion? Of course, but we don’t have to agree with their opinion do we? No! There is a God! This is 100% for me, by FAITH and study and prayer.

What is a conservative? Oxford says, “holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.” It seems to me that a Conservative is one who treats values coming from God as traditional. I think a conservative has a strong faith in God and chooses to follow Him, and I believe a liberal can have faith in God but tends to believe in man more than God. Both a liberal and a conservative, sin and make mistakes, but conservatives seem to be more forgiving than a liberal. Conservatives seen to judge others more harshly especially if the other one doesn’t seem to love God. I believe Liberals are more inclusive to anyone regardless of race or religion. These things are very simplified but I find them basically true in the world today.

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The point? As you listen to President Lee below, you will see that he believes basically what I do. I’m sure he loves all people as I do, but there is a profound difference between a conservative and a liberal. They both have good qualities, but I believe that having faith in the Son of God is far more important than believing in the arm of flesh. I am not saying a Conservative is better than a Liberal as I will not judge, but I know I am a Conservative and I believe it is the best way for anyone to live. I also believe in a Conservative Government of Freedom in a Capitalist society with high morals. I believe our Creator gave us all Life, Liberty and Happiness and no man can take those things from us. I believe in the 10 Commandments and I believe The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true and the Book of Mormon is the Word of God and Joseph Smith is and was a prophet of God. We have a living Prophet today even President Russell M Nelson.

The self-called liberal [in the Church] is usually one who has broken with the fundamental principles or guiding philosophy of the group to which he belongs.John A. Widstoe

There are those in the Church who speak of themselves as liberals who, as one of our former presidents has said, “read by the lamp of their own conceit.” Joseph F. Smith

Tradition says, “hold the Rod”

Thank you Kevin Price again for sharing a profound article with me.


The Iron Rod

by Harold B. Lee Address delivered at general conference Sunday afternoon, April 4, 1971

I sincerely pray for the spirit of this great conference during the few moments that I shall stand here.

Sometime ago there appeared in the Wall Street Journal a thought-provoking article, written by an eminent theologian at the Columbia University, under the subject heading “An Antidote for Aimlessness,” which you recognize as a condition that is prevalent in the world today. I quote from this article by Rabbi Arthur Herlzterg:

“What people come to religion for, is an ultimate metaphysical hunger, and when that hunger is not satisfied, religion declines … the moment that clerics become more worldly, the world goes to hades the faster.

“… Religion represents the accumulation of man’s insight over thousands of years into such questions as the nature of man, the meaning of life, the individual’s place in the universe. That is, precisely, the question at the root of man’s restlessness.

“Man seeks something to end his state of confusion and emptiness … in the latest parlance, an antidote for aimlessness. We do not know if the truths of religious tradition can be interpreted to satisfy this need, but we are sure that here, not in political activism, is religion’s path to relevance.”

As an answer to those who may be wandering aimlessly, searching for something to satisfy their need and to end their state of confusion and emptiness, I would like to introduce a few thoughts by relating a remarkable vision which came to an ancient prophet by the name of Lehi—600 years before Christ. To the faithful members of the Church this will be an oft-related incident recorded in the Book of Mormon. To those not of our faith this may, if they will ponder seriously, be very significant in the light of many trends in our modern society.

Think of the Rod as God directing you to him.

In this dream, or better called a vision, the prophet Lehi was led by a heavenly messenger through a dark and dreary waste to a tree laden with delicious fruit which proved to be very satisfying to his soul. He beheld a river of water nearby along which was a straight and narrow path leading to the tree laden with delicious fruit. Between the river bank and the path was a rod of iron, presumably to safeguard the travelers from falling off the narrow path into the river.

As he looked, he saw large groups of people crowding forward to gain access to the spacious field where the tree with fruit was located. As they pressed forward along the path, a great mist of darkness arose, so dense that many who started lost their way and wandered off and were drowned in the murky water or were lost from view as they wandered into strange paths. There were others, however, likewise in danger of being lost because of the blinding mist, who caught hold of the iron rod and, by so doing, held their course so that they too could partake of the delicacies which had beckoned them to come, despite the hazardous journey. Across, on the opposite side of the river, were multitudes of people pointing fingers of scorn at those who made the journey safely.

As with many other ancient prophets in biblical history, dreams or visions of this nature were effective means by which the Lord communicated with his people through prophet-leaders. Just so, this dream had great significance, as the Lord revealed to the prophet Lehi. The tree laden with fruit was a representation of the love of God which he sheds forth among all the children of men. The Master himself, later in his earthly ministry, explained to Nicodemus how that great love was manifested. Said he: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”; and then the Master added: “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” (John 3:16–17.)

The rod of iron as seen in the vision interpreted was the word of God, or the gospel of Jesus Christ, which led to the tree of life that the Master explained to the woman at the well in Samaria was as “a well of [living] water springing up into everlasting life.” (John 4:14.)

Those, as seen in the vision, who were across the river pointing fingers of scorn represented the multitudes of the earth which are gathered together to fight against the apostles of the Lamb of God. The scorners, so the Lord revealed, represented the so-called wisdom of the world, and the building itself in which they were gathered was the “pride of the world.” (See 1 Ne. 11–12.)

If there is any one thing most needed in this time of tumult and frustration, when men and women and youth and young adults are desperately seeking for answers to the problems which afflict mankind, it is an “iron rod” as a safe guide along the straight path on the way to eternal life, amidst the strange and devious roadways that would eventually lead to destruction and to the ruin of all that is “virtuous, lovely, or of good report.”

These conditions as they would be found in the earth when these scriptures, now called the Book of Mormon, were to be brought forth were foreseen by the prophets. As I read some of these predictions, I would have you think of conditions with which we are surrounded today:

“And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts; unto … envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities … because of the pride of your hearts.

“… behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.” (Morm. 8:36–37.)

The apostle Paul also spoke of a time of peril when “men [would] be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

“Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those things that are good,

“Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

“Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. …” (2 Tim. 3:2–5.)

There are many who profess to be religious and speak of themselves as Christians, and, according to one such, “as accepting the scriptures only as sources of inspiration and moral truth,” and then ask in their smugness: “Do the revelations of God give us a handrail to the kingdom of God, as the Lord’s messenger told Lehi, or merely a compass?”

Unfortunately, some are among us who claim to be Church members but are somewhat like the scoffers in Lehi’s vision—standing aloof and seemingly inclined to hold in derision the faithful who choose to accept Church authorities as God’s special witnesses of the gospel and his agents in directing the affairs of the Church.

There are those in the Church who speak of themselves as liberals who, as one of our former presidents has said, “read by the lamp of their own conceit.” (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine [Deseret Book Co., 1939], p. 373.) One time I asked one of our Church educational leaders how he would define a liberal in the Church. He answered in one sentence: “A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have a testimony.”

Dr. John A. Widtsoe, former member of the Quorum of the Twelve and an eminent educator, made a statement relative to this word liberal as it applied to those in the Church. This is what he said:

“The self-called liberal [in the Church] is usually one who has broken with the fundamental principles or guiding philosophy of the group to which he belongs. … He claims membership in an organization but does not believe in its basic concepts; and sets out to reform it by changing its foundations. … “It is folly to speak of a liberal religion, if that religion claims that it rests upon unchanging truth.”

And then Dr. Widtsoe concludes his statement with this: “It is well to beware of people who go about proclaiming that they are or their churches are liberal. The probabilities are that the structure of their faith is built on sand and will not withstand the storms of truth.” (“Evidences and Reconciliations,” Improvement Era, vol. 44 [1941], p. 609.)

Here again, to use the figure of speech in Lehi’s vision, they are those who are blinded by the mists of darkness and as yet have not a firm grasp on the “iron rod.”

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if, when there are questions which are unanswered because the Lord hasn’t seen fit to reveal the answers as yet, all such could say, as Abraham Lincoln is alleged to have said, “I accept all I read in the Bible that I can understand, and accept the rest on faith.”

How comforting it would be to those who are the restless in the intellectual world, when such questions arise as to how the earth was formed and how man came to be, if they could answer as did an eminent scientist and devoted Church member. A sister had asked: “Why didn’t the Lord tell us plainly about these things?” The scientist answered: “It is likely we would not understand if he did. It might be like trying to explain the theory of atomic energy to an eight-year-old child.

Wouldn’t it be a great thing if all who are well schooled in secular learning could hold fast to the “iron rod,” or the word of God, which could lead them, through faith, to an understanding, rather than to have them stray away into strange paths of man-made theories and be plunged into the murky waters of disbelief and apostasy?

I heard one of our own eminent scientists say something to the effect that he believed more professors have taken themselves out of the Church by their trying to philosophize or intellectualize the fall of Adam and the subsequent atonement of the Savior. This was because they would rather accept the philosophies of men than what the Lord has revealed until they, and we, are able to understand the “mysteries of godliness” as explained to the prophets of the Lord and more fully revealed in sacred places.

There were evidently similar questions and controversies in the Master’s time. In one terse answer, he gave the essential ingredients to safety amidst the maze of uncertainty:

To settle an apparent controversy among his disciples as to who would be the greatest in the kingdom of God, he said: “… except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of [God].” (Matt. 18:3.)

To become converted, according to the scriptures, meant having a change of heart and the moral character of a person turned from the controlled power of sin into a righteous life. It meant to “wait patiently on the Lord” until one’s prayers can be answered and until his heart, as Cyprian, a defender of the faith in the Apostolic Period, testified, and I quote, “Into my heart, purified of all sin, there entered a light which came from on high, and then suddenly and in a marvelous manner, I saw certainty succeed doubt.”

Conversion must mean more than just being a “card carrying” member of the Church with a tithing receipt, a membership card, a temple recommend, etc. It means to overcome the tendencies to criticize and to strive continually to improve inward weaknesses and not merely the outward appearances.

The Lord issued a warning to those who would seek to destroy the faith of an individual or lead him away from the word of God or cause him to lose his grasp on the “iron rod,” wherein was safety by faith in a Divine Redeemer and his purposes concerning this earth and its peoples.

The Master warned: “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better … that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” (Matt. 18:6.)

The Master was impressing the fact that rather than ruin the soul of a true believer, it were better for a person to suffer an earthly death than to incur the penalty of jeopardizing his own eternal destiny.

The apostle Paul impressed also the danger of false teachings by bad example. Said he: “But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. …

“And through thy knowledge shall the weak … perish, for whom Christ died?

“But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.” (1 Cor. 8:9, 11–12.)

Speaking to the learned and highly sophisticated generation in his time, the prophet Jacob said something which seems to be so often needed to be repeated today: “… When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. …

“But to be learned is good if they hearken to the counsels of God.” (2 Ne. 9:28–29.)

We fervently thank the Lord for the faithfulness and devotion of many in and out of the Church who are in high places in business, in governmental circles, in the legal profession, doctors, trained social workers, nurses, and those in the fields of the sciences and the arts. Particularly are we grateful for those who accept positions of leadership in the Church, who serve as home teachers or class leaders in the priesthood or in the auxiliaries, who make themselves available for volunteer service in helping to care for the unfortunate in all lands and among minorities within and without the Church, and in giving particular attention to the needs of the widows and the orphans.

I say to all such, as did Jesus to Zacchaeus: “This day is salvation come to [their] house.” (Luke 19:9.) These are they who are holding fast to the “iron rod” which can lead us all, in safety, to the tree of life.

I read recently from a column in the Washington Post, by George Moore, who styled himself as the “hermit of Mount Vernon.” (Mount Vernon, of course, was the ancestral home of George Washington.) In this article he said, “I have spent the last twenty years of my life at Mount Vernon reducing my ignorance.” He claimed that a person never learns anything until he realizes how little he knows. In this article he makes this most illuminating observation about George Washington:

Washington never went to school. That’s why he was an educated man, he never quit learning.”

What George Moore said of himself I suppose could be said of many of you and of myself: “I have spent more than three score years of my life reducing my ignorance.”

Therein, it is my conviction, is the challenge to all who achieve distinction in any field. Some quit learning when they graduate from a school; some quit learning about the gospel when they have completed a mission for the Church; some quit learning when they become an executive or have a prominent position in or out of the Church.

Remember, as George Moore said of Washington, “We can become educated persons, regardless of our stations in life, if we never quit learning.”

The late President Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote this: “Any man who does his work well, who is justifiably self-confident and not unduly disturbed by the jeers of the cynics and the shirkers, any man who stays true to decent motives and is considerate of others is, in essence, a leader. Whether or not he is ever singled out for prominence, he is bound to achieve great inner satisfaction in turning out superior work.

“And that, by the way, is what the good Lord put us on this earth for.” (“What Is Leadership?” Reader’s Digest, June 1965, p. 54.)

With the restoration of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the establishment of the Church in the dispensation of the fulness of times, we were given instructions by revelation, the magnitude of which, as the late President Brigham H. Roberts explained, was “not merely as to whether baptism should be by immersion or for the forgiveness of sins, but the rubbish of accumulated ages was swept aside, the rocks made bare, and the foundations of the Kingdom of God were relaid.”

It may seem preposterous to many to declare that within the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may be found a bulwark to safeguard against the pitfalls, the frustrations, and the wickedness in the world. The plan of salvation formed in the heavens points clearly to the straight and narrow path that leads to eternal life, even though there are many who refuse to follow that way.

In a great revelation, the Lord gave instruction by commandment to the leaders of the Church of that early day that they should be seekers after truth in many fields.

First, of course, he commanded that they should “teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom … in all things that pertain [to] the kingdom of God. …” (D&C 88:77–78.)

The Conservative desires to hold the rod, Liberals don’t think they need a rod.

Then he counsels as to the wide sweep of learning about which we should seek. His church was not to be an ignorant ministry in various fields of secular learning.

And then the Lord addressed his revelation to all others who may not have faith: “… seek learning, even by study and also by faith.” (D&C 88:118.)

One might well ask: How does one get “learning by faith”? One prophet explains the process: First, one must arouse his faculties and experiment on the words of the Lord and desire to believe. Let this desire work in you until ye believe in a manner that you can give place even to a portion of the word of the Lord; then, like a planted seed, it must be cultivated and not resist the Spirit of the Lord, which is that which lighteneth everyone born into the world; you can then begin to feel within yourselves that it must be good, for it enlarges your soul and enlightens your understanding and, like the fruit of the tree in Lehi’s vision, it becomes delicious to the taste. (See Alma 32.)

It was an English novelist who was quoted as saying: “He who seeks God has already found him.”

Let no one think that “learning by faith” contemplates an easy or lazy way to gain knowledge and ripen it into wisdom.

From heavenly instructions and added to which are the experiences of almost anyone who has sought diligently for heavenly guidance, one may readily understand that learning by faith requires the bending of the whole soul through worthy living to become attuned to the Holy Spirit of the Lord, the calling up from the depths of one’s own mental searching, and the linking of our own efforts to receive the true witness of the Spirit.

The mission of this church is to bear witness of the truths of the gospel and put to flight the false teachings on every side that are causing the restlessness and the aimlessness that threaten all who have not found the straight path and that which could be an anchor to their souls.

My fervent prayer is that I may hold up that true Light of Christ to all the world. I would that all may know with assurance, as I, from study, prayer, and faith, know for a certainty, as the Master declared to Martha, who was mourning the death of Lazarus, that the Lord and Master is indeed “the resurrection, and the life; [and] he that believeth in [him], though he were dead, yet shall he live:

“And whosoever liveth and believeth in [him] shall never die. …” (John 11:25–26.)

I thank the Lord that I can answer, as did Martha and as did Peter of old: “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matt. 16:16.)

“Yea, Lord: I believe … thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.” (John 11:27.)

To this I do bear my solemn witness, in the sacred name of our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ, even so. Amen.


See my blog here https://www.bofm.blog/revelation-traditionalists-vs-progressives/

 

Nephites & Lamanites Existed in Great Numbers in North America

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Ether – Moroni – D&C 84 Link Confirms North American Location of Cumorah
By Samuel Dunaway –

“I have been blessed by meeting a very spiritual man named Sam Dunaway. We met in Colorado while both working there in 1983. Our friendship led to a time when I could see that Sam was down and somewhat depressed as he was working so hard and not seeing many results. While having some time together alone, I felt a strong presence of the Spirit at this time and I could feel Sam’s anguish. I knew without a doubt, Sam needed what I had, a personal witness that the Lord loves us. I bore a quick testimony to Sam, as I had simply said, “I think you need to find God.” He replied, “Is your church open to new-comers?”, and from there the witness of truth has followed Sam throughout his life. He touched me with his simple, immediate response in humility. He felt the Spirit and is now a special witness of the Savior today, and a very special friend.” Rian Nelson

Sam’s Testimony

I take personal responsibility for the contents of this article, knowing that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints takes no position on any proposed Book of Mormon sites.

The reason I have written this article is to present grounds for agreement among church members. This subject has no bearing on the basis of a personal testimony, which is given by the Holy Ghost. However, it does give credence to the Lord’s admonition “I say unto you, be one” See D&C 38:27, 1 Cor 1:10, Moses 7:18.

For too long there has been confusion on the subject of the hill Cumorah and location of the sacred records while the Nephites possessed them, as well as the location of the Nephite and Lamanite inhabitants. Such confusion is neither warranted nor appreciated especially when the Book of Mormon is clear. I testify that the Book of Mormon contains the word of God, as made known to me by the Holy Ghost. Although locations and evidences being temporal are secondary and will never prove the divinity of the Book of Mormon, they are an important part of our heritage. Were it not so, the Church would not have acquired historic sites.

Far too many have been negatively impacted by our lack of oneness. At the very least, we are required to cease contending amongst ourselves and to stop confusing our converts and our youth. We owe them a basis of strength which is supportive, keeping them from being blown about by every wind of doctrine against us by our enemies.

Reminder… ‘too often, due to the “natural man” and woman in us, you and I are sometimes that enemy.’ (Elder Holland, Be Ye Therefore Perfect—Eventually)

*For the purpose of this article, North American Continent includes the contiguous United States and Canada. Central American Continent would include areas from Mexico to Panama.

Joseph Smith and the Angel Moroni
by Tom Holdman (Stained glass)
Hill Cumorah Visitors Center, Palmyra, New York

1.  Everyone who studies the Book of Mormon must agree that at least one Nephite, Moroni, and numerous Lamanites, who hunted him (Mormon 8:7), existed on the North American continent at the time he hid the few plates that his father Mormon gave him in the earth. See Mormon 6:6, 8:4, 8:14, Moroni 20:2. They remained hidden in a prominent hill in New York until Moroni directed Joseph Smith concerning the plates. See JSH 1:51.

2a. The Nephites were very careful to document who had possession of the records, and where the records were located when not in the personal possession of the record keeper. See Mormon 1:3-4, 2:17, 6:6, Ether 15:33. This careful practice was performed the entire time that the Nephites had the records. There is even detail recorded about the Jaredite plates found by Limhi’s people during their expedition, as well as a record of Coriantumr, the Jaredite, dwelling with the people of Zarahemla. See Mosiah 8:9, Omni 1:21. The Nephites were meticulously serious about accurately preserving the records; to the degree that when Jesus personally reviewed their records, he corrected a single error. See 3 Nephi 23:7-13.

2b. Two separate hills are recorded as repositories where the records were located or hidden. One is named Shim and the other Cumorah. Due to the careful and accurate process the Nephites practiced, only one hill named Cumorah existed. If there were a duplicate named hill, it would have been recorded in the Book of Mormon. No such licensure was given by the Nephites, nor is found in writings expressly authored by Joseph Smith. We know exactly where the sole hill Cumorah is located.

Ether – Moroni – D&C 84 Link (3 and 4a):

3. The prophet Ether references the place of “a New Jerusalem on this land” (Ether 3:3, 3:2-8). We know the place of the New Jerusalem by revelation (D&C 84:2-4), to be in western Missouri. Coriantumr was king over all the land (Ether 12:1) in which Ether lived. Coriantumr was unaware that another people were being established in the land (Ether 13:21) until Ether told him. Therefore Coriantumr’s kingdom could not have spanned beyond the land area of the continent upon which they dwelt. He was simply unable to maintain so large a kingdom, losing it to other peoples. Where then were Coriantumr and Ether? In order for Ether to correctly and emphatically declare “this land” four times in Ether 13, as being the future place of the New Jerusalem, he must needs have been standing on the North American continent. Otherwise standing on Central or South American Continents, he would have had to declare “the land northward“. Therefore, we know that at least two million Jaredites inhabited this land of North America. See Ether 15:2.

4a. The final battles of the Jaredites, also the Nephites and Lamanites, are identified by Moroni as being by the hill Ramah, which was the Jaredite name for the hill Cumorah, where Mormon “did hide up the records”. See Ether 15:11, Mormon 6:6. Therefore the hill Cumorah exists on the same land that Ether declared as the land where the New Jerusalem would be built. Because the final battles of the Nephites and Lamanites were also upon the North American Continent, at least two hundred thirty thousand Nephites (Mormon 6:10-15) and greater numbers of Lamanites, existed upon the same.

4b. It is highly plausible, given the circumstances of record relocation, that the hill Shim exists in close proximity to the hill Cumorah. During the midst of terrible battles and at great peril, Mormon made the decision to move several sets of heavy permanent records on plates of various metals between the hills for security and safe keeping. We know that one of Mormon’s main tasks was to abridge records onto the gold plates which included the plates of Nephi. In addition, the Jaredite plates, which Moroni later abridged, brass plates and sword taken from Laban, as well as the Liahona would have been part of the relocation. I’m not sure of other records that were in his possession. Mormon also had to keep the plates away from extremely corrupt and greedily depraved Nephites. My point is that it was not easy to orchestrate the move in a secure fashion.

5. Since the Nephites and Lamanites existed in such great numbers in North America, as indicated indirectly by Moroni, we must agree that they inhabited the land for a period of at least several decades during which continual battles and wars occurred, beginning in 321 AD. See Mormon 1:8.

I invite any reader to share with me your specific information about this research as well as any changes you feel are necessary.

Samuel Dunaway
Personal background:

●Born in Illinois in 60s.
●Spent much time as a young boy hiking and building forts in the woods.
●Some older boys in the neighborhood searched for arrow heads.
●Moved to Colorado and joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1983.
●Rian Nelson introduced me to the Church. While he shared his testimony with me, he did not mention anything about evidences of the Book of Mormon.
●Gained a testimony of Church gospel and doctrine based on revelation from Holy Ghost, thus desiring baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost.
●Since reading the Book of Mormon for the first time, I believed that Moroni buried plates in the hill Cumorah in New York.
●Heard various versions and theories about where the Nephites and Lamanites may have lived in the intervening years.
●Gave the prevailing theories a lot of thought but never came to any sound conclusions regarding proposed Central or South America locations.
●Confusion regarding the various theories resulted in many questions including the following:
-How did Mormon relocate several records over such a vast distance to the hill Cumorah and in the midst of terrible battles?
‐How did Moroni carry heavy plates with him while wandering northward, evading Lamanite hunters and continuing to write the record?
●In 2016 I began to study evidences relating to Book of Mormon peoples.
●Have found some North America location theories to be extraneous but well documented as a whole.
●In 2018 I was pleasantly surprised to learn of Rian’s involvement in research supporting such evidences.
●My divine testimony of the truth of the Book of Mormon remains separate from any evidences.

Samuel Dunaway
[email protected]

Father Lehi began in North America-Limited Geography

The understanding of who the Lamanites are, and where they lived, has been a topic of interest for many years in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I was taught in the 1970’s what is called  the “Hemispheric Model” about the Book of Mormon. (Map Left)
Meaning, that generally speaking all of the Lamanites lived in South America and all the Nephites lived in North America and the “Narrow Neck of Land” was Central America. That has now become obsolete to most people in the Church, whether they believe in a Mesoamerican, a Heartland, a Baja theory, or any other theory about Book of Mormon Events.
The consensus opinion of both Heartlanders and Mesoamericanists is, the Book of Mormon had to be contained into a smaller geographical area of about 7-900 miles east to west and 4-600 miles north to south. That means either the Nephites lived in the Heartland of North America from about Zarahemla (Montrose, IA) to the Hill Cumorah near Palmyra NY (800 to 850 miles across the Land Zarahemla and Bountiful) and from about Mackinaw City, Michigan in the north to the Cincinnati, OH on the Ohio River (500-550 miles through the Land of Zarahemla and Bountiful)
The reason is, that the distances required to make that old Hemispheric Model a reality has created an almost consensus opinion that it just doesn’t make sense anymore. A “Limited Geography Model” or today what is called (Hinterland Model) is now the consensus.Either the Lehites sailed southwest from Oman and around Africa and they landed in North America near Florida to begin civilization, or they sailed southeast towards the tip of India and through the islands of Malaysia and the Philippines continuing east on the huge Pacific ocean and then landing on the west coast near Chile or Central America. My mariner friend, British Naval Captain Philip Beal from England, estimated this voyage time in a sailing vessel across the Pacific to be 14 to 18 months.

Heartlanders believe after landing near Tallahassee, Florida, the Nephites escaped from Laman and Lemuel north possibly on the Chattahoochee River that goes all the way through Unicoi Gap, GA into Tennessee, then on the Tennessee River north to Missouri, and traveling east across what Joseph Smith called “Plains of the Nephites, (JS Papers) Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio and ended at NY Cumorah. (This is the same pattern as the Ancient Hopewell Culture who historically traveled that same route and direction from 550 BC to 400 AD). Our friend Philip Beale estimates the time to accomplish this route in a sailing ship to be 4 to 6 months. Philip has proven that on two different voyages, one in 2009 and the other in 2020 in a replica Phoenicia sailing ship. (see blog) This is a far better common sense length of time. Philip said,The sailing ship could make the 18 month voyage, from Oman to the west coast of Chile, but is would be empty with no surviving passengers.”

Map left is today’s (2022) Mesoamerican Map called a “Fantasy Map” that the CES and all of BYU uses it as the authentic placement map of the Book of Mormon Cities. Map right is today’s (2022) Heartland Map which shows the correct north directions without having to turn the map. Yes Zarahemla is still south or southwest of Cumorah. The red line is the Ohio/Allegheny Rivers, which was the narrow strip of wilderness that separated the Nephites and the Lamanites. The narrow neck of land (Ether 10:20) was actually a Jaredite landmark and it is the Niagara Peninsula.

Mesoamericanists believe the Nephites traveled from Honduras to Guatemala, to Chiapas, Oaxaca to Mexico City and Cumorah may be west of Tampico. But as you can see by the map above, today’s (2022) Mesoamerican’s have had to turn their 1917 map 90 degrees north so that the proper directions are where “north” actually means “north” because on the 1917 map “north” really meant “west” as you can see below.

M2C means Mesoamerican 2-Cumorah Theory! Map by L.E. Hills 1917


In April 1917, an RLDS scholar of the Book of Mormon (named L.E. Hills) published a map that depicted M2C. (Mesoamerica 2 Cumorah Theory)

Scriptures Explain the Correct Theory

I believe the best evidence of who the Book of Mormon Lamanites are, comes from the Lord in D&C 32:2-3: “And that which I have appointed unto him is that he [Parley P. Pratt] shall go with my servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites. And Ziba Peterson also shall go with them; and I myself will go with them and be in their midst; and I am their advocate with the Father, and nothing shall prevail against them.” These first missionaries to the Lamanites first visited the Cattaraugus Indians in Buffalo NY, then the Wyandot Indians in Sandusky, OH, and finally the Shawnee and Delaware Indians in MO. It seems that we know from the Lord that these Native American Tribes are Lamanites. See Church Article Here! We will discuss this in more detail below.


Many dedicatory prayers by Prophets at Temples in South and Central America have mentioned that the people have, “the blood of Father Lehi”, or Prophets refer to “Lehi’s blood” or “Lehi’s descendants,” or even the “Lamanites,” how should we understand these terms? Who are the Lamanites? To help answer this question let’s first discuss an issue called “the Hinterlands.”


Mormon could not “write the hundredth part” of the events of his people. For this reason we have the record of the Nephites from Mormon’s abridgement, but we don’t have the written record of those who lived in the periphery or “Hinterland.” See Words of Mormon 1:5, Ether 15:33, Isaiah 18:1

You Choose Which Limited Geography Makes Sense


Defining Hinterlands

The Hinterland Hypothesis (DVD) Heartland Core – Mesoamerican Periphery $19.95

“Hinterlands is defined here as meaning the unknown area of North and South America that are not within the scope of the writings of the Book of Mormon. In other words, since we believe main events of the Book of Mormon happened in a limited area of North America around the Great Lakes  in the east,  and Ohio, Indiana, Iowa and Missouri to the west, and south in Tennessee, West Virginia, Georgia, and Florida, all other areas will be discussed as “The Hinterlands”. We propose that Mesoamerica is the Hinterlands along with many other areas of the continent. As Mormon has said, “…I shall take from the plates of Nephi; and I cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people (Words of Mormon 1:5).  There are many people in South and Central America that are Lamanites and part of the Hinterlands.” Jonathan Neville

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In other words, if the Book of Mormon events took place in Mesoamerica, then every other area would be the “Hinterlands” where other Lamanites may have migrated and lived. If however the events of the Book of Mormon took place in the Heartland of the United States (As we believe they did), then every other area outside of this limited Heartland area would contain migrating Lamanites, including the western United States, Canada, Mexico, and South and Central America. Heartland Core – Where the main Nephite and Lamanite events occurred! Mesoamerican Periphery – Where Nephites and Lamanites migrated to outside of this core! (See map to the right)


Confusion about Cumorah, “Lamanites,” and the prophets by 

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“For several months, people have asked how the statements of prophets and apostles regarding Lamanites in Latin America and the Pacific fit with the North American setting. I’ve addressed the question several times, but not as thoroughly as I suppose I should, so here are my thoughts on the topic. A basic criticism of the North American setting (Moroni’s America or the Heartland model) is that in temple dedicatory prayers and other comments, modern prophets and apostles have said Lamanites live throughout the Americas, from at least Cardston, Alberta, to São Paulo, Brazil. Some people think I’ve ignored these statements. I haven’t ignored them; I just don’t think they tell us anything about Book of Mormon geography.

It’s difficult to understand the rationale of this criticism in the first place. It appears to rely on the premise that Lehi’s descendants were isolated and never interacted with other indigenous people in the Western Hemisphere.

For example, when President Hinckley’s 1983 temple dedicatory prayer said the Saints in Mexico “have in their veins the blood of Father Lehi,” the premise would mean that Mexico must be where the Book of Mormon took place. But such a premise contradicts the statements themselves, which, as I noted, identify Lamanites throughout the hemisphere. (Someone could argue that the narrative took place throughout the hemisphere such that Lehi’s descendants were restricted to one hemisphere, but I don’t think anyone makes that argument any longer, at least not from Alberta to southern Brazil).

Whether the Book of Mormon narrative took place in New York, Tennessee, Illinois, Baja, Mexico, Guatemala, Panama or Chile, people from all those areas interacted with one another over the thousands of years they shared the continent.

In other words, generalized statements of the prophets and apostles about the Lamanites tell us nothing about Book of Mormon geography except that it took place in the Western Hemisphere (but one could dispute even that). They certainly don’t contradict the North American setting or establish a justification for a non-New York Hill Cumorah.

I think the entire New World narrative of the Book of Mormon took place in North America, meaning from Florida to Canada and from the Atlantic to the Midwest (as far west as Missouri and Iowa). By the authors’ own admission, the narrative is merely a brief sketch; it covers less than 1% of the history of the Nephites and even less of the history of the Lamanites. Since before Lehi arrived, people throughout the Americas traded and intermarried. Lehi’s little colony grew to a large civilization in part by absorbing indigenous people (as well as the people of Zarahemla). After the Nephites were annihilated around 385 A.D., the Lamanites continued to live on the land, but their history is lost to us. We must resort to anthropology and archaeology, which indicate ongoing interaction throughout the Americas before and after 385 A.D.

With this background, how could “the blood of Father Lehi” not be found throughout the Americas?

There is no problem harmonizing the New York Cumorah with the statements of prophets and apostles regarding Lamanites or descendants of Lehi throughout the Americas (and in the Pacific). (See my addtional blog here: https://www.bofm.blog/the-hinterlands-lamanites-in-the-americas/

That said, there is an ongoing controversy about DNA. Critics ask how “Lamanite blood” can be found in people whose DNA shows they are overwhelmingly Asian in origin. It’s a valid question about definitions.

When prophets refer to “Lehi’s blood” or “Lehi’s descendants,” or even the “Lamanites,” are they referring to people whose DNA contains markers showing Israelite origin? If so, then the indigenous people of Latin America don’t qualify (unless we want to say Asians are Israelites, which broadens the term beyond usefulness). But if the prophets are referring to links in heredity, however tenuous, then the indigenous people of Latin America cannot be disqualified. Such links cannot be disproven because you can be descended from a person even if you don’t possess DNA markers that link you to that person. (The problems with the DNA criticism are discussed in the notes below.*)

To be sure, we would expect to find the highest concentration of relevant DNA markers in the areas where Lehi’s descendants lived in the highest concentrations; i.e., in the northeastern U.S. (and the Midwestern areas where they were forced to move). After all, the Lord designated the tribes in New York, Ohio, and Missouri as Lamanites when he sent Oliver Cowdery and others on a mission to these tribes (D&C 28, 30, 32). Joseph Smith told these tribes the Book of Mormon was their history.

That expectation seems to be borne out when we consider the X haplogroup.** The X haplogroup is the only non-Asian haplogroup found among indigenous Native Americans.

As the map depicts, the highest concentrations of X haplogroup in the world are in the Middle East and in the Northeastern U.S. and Canada. This isn’t “proof” of Lehi’s DNA for the reasons I mention in the notes, but it does correspond to our expectations of a genetic link between indigenous people in these two areas–expectations raised by Joseph Smith and the Lord Himself in the Doctrine and Covenants. Based on those expectations, the X haplogroup works as a proxy for Lehi’s ancestry.

In 1981, the Church added an introduction to the Book of Mormon that reads “After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.” That introduction was changed in 2007 to read “After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians.” This is how the introduction reads today.

As used in these sentences, who are the “American Indians?”

I’ve seen all kinds of semantic gyrations about this term, but a typical dictionary will provide an explanation similar to this one: “Usage Note: In principle, American Indian can apply to all native peoples throughout the Americas except the Eskimo, Aleut, and Inuit, but in practice it is generally restricted to the peoples of the United States and Canada. For native peoples in the rest of the hemisphere, usage generally favors Indian by itself or, less frequently, the contractions Amerindian or Amerind.”

If we look at the map, it is apparent that although the X haplogroup is concentrated in the Northeast, it spreads through much, but not all, of the American Indians in the United States and Canada. Therefore the 2007 change to the Introduction makes sense; i.e., the Lamanites may not be the principal ancestors of the American Indians, but they are among those ancestors–especially for those American Indians living in the Northeast.

But the X haplogroup does not appear among the indigenous people in Latin America.

From the New York Cumorah perspective, the prophets’ identification of Lamanites throughout the hemisphere works not because of DNA, but because of the assumption that over the centuries, trade and intermarriage would have distributed the “blood of Lehi” widely, albeit in concentrations too dilute to detect with DNA. [Here is a great article from National Geographic.]

From the non-New York Cumorah perspective, however, it’s a different problem. Advocates of these theories must assume that the areas where we would expect to find the most evidence of Middle-Eastern DNA (Mesoamerica, Chile, Peru, Baja, etc.) actually have so little it is undetectable. Meanwhile, indigenous people living in the Northeastern U.S.–the area they claim cannot be the setting for the Book of Mormon–have the highest concentration of X haplotype in the world outside of the Middle-East.

IOW, if we support what the prophets have said about the Lamanites, then the North American setting is the best explanation for the various statements about Lamanites throughout the hemisphere.

There is another little-known aspect of this Lamanite question. In the Wentworth letter, Joseph Smith wrote “The principal nation of the second race [the Nephites] fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country.”

Plenty of ink has been spilled parsing this statement. Although Joseph was writing from Nauvoo, Illinois, to Mr. Wentworth of Chicago, Illinois, Mesoamerican advocates have claimed that the term “this country” actually refers to the entire hemisphere. I leave it to the reader to decide whether that’s a plausible interpretation of what Joseph intended or what Mr. Wentworth would understand.

More significant is what Joseph deleted when he wrote those sentences.

The Wentworth letter was largely based on a missionary pamphlet written by Orson Pratt. Joseph (and/or his assistants) edited the pamphlet by changing details in some areas and by deleting large sections in others.

The first sentence of the two I quoted is identical to the one in Orson Pratt’s pamphlet. But Joseph’s second sentence–“The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country”–replaces 2,700 words of Orson Pratt’s speculation about Lehi’s descendants inhabiting all of North and South America. I view this significant editing as a specific repudiation of Pratt’s hemispheric model, but it is only apparent when we look at how Joseph edited Pratt’s pamphlet.

There is a “Mormon Chess” element of this discussion as people position their pieces (quotations) to defend their queens (theories). In many cases, there is a perception of conflict among the authorities (e.g., a New York Cumorah is inconsistent with a Guatemalan City of Nephi). These conflicts lead people to seek a hierarchy of authority; e.g., a Rook is worth more than a Knight which is worth more than a pawn, so the scriptures are worth more than a conference talk which is worth more than a dedicatory prayer.

You can see how such an approach quickly descends into chaos and confusion.

In my view, it is more valuable to harmonize the various statements of the prophets whenever possible and to clarify issues by isolating them for analysis. The Cumorah question is independent of the Lamanite and scope of geography questions, so I’ll look at it next.

Cumorah

Lately I’ve focused on the question of Cumorah because, in my view, it is the keystone of Book of Mormon geography. (In this post, I’m not indulging the dodge of the two-Cumorahs theory. When I say Cumorah, I mean the Cumorah of Mormon 6:6; i.e., the hill where Mormon hid the repository and where the final battles of the Nephites and Jaredites occurred.)

I don’t think there is any conflict among statements by Church authorities about Cumorah. Cumorah is the one unambiguous pin in the map we’ve been given, and I think it’s way past time that all Latter-day Saints agree that Cumorah is in New York, for all the reasons I’ve given in my blogs, books, and presentations.

Others disagree. They claim Cumorah is in southern Mexico, Baja, Panama, Chile, and places in Africa and Asia.

This is why I frame the Cumorah issue as a choice between two positions:

Either Cumorah is in New York, or it is elsewhere.  

The corollary: if it’s not in New York, I don’t think it really matters where it is, because in that case we are talking about a non-literal text; i.e., a parable at best.

I say this because the New York Cumorah has been a constant since before the text was translated through General Conference talks by prophets and apostles at least through the 1970s. Letter VII is explicit and unambiguous, and it has been republished multiple times.

So how, people ask, can anyone think Cumorah is not in New York?

The only reason–the only reason–is because they think the New York Cumorah conflicts with their preferred theories about Book of Mormon geography.

Here is the basic argument. Let’s say you believe the Book of Mormon events took place in Baja, or Chile, or Central America (including Mesoamerica). You find all kinds of correspondences that you think corroborate your interpretation of the text. You develop an abstract map and superimpose it on the actual geography, or the hypothetical ancient geography of your choice. You decide where Cumorah must be, based on your theory and interpretation of the text.

But you conclude that New York doesn’t fit. What then?

You write (or think) something along the lines of the famous quotation by John Sorenson: “There remain Latter-day Saints who insist that the final destruction of the Nephites took place in New York, but any such idea is manifestly absurd.”

[For those new to this topic, Brother Sorenson was a long-time BYU professor whose book, Mormon’s Codex, was widely praised by LDS scholars and educators as his “magnum opus.” The quotation is a direct repudiation of the prophets and apostles who have spoken on this issue, and yet everyone who promotes a non-New York Cumorah embraces the Sorenson position.]

To support the non-New York Cumorah theories, LDS scholars and educators have sought to obscure the issue by conflating it with the question of the “Lamanites.” 

The Lamanites

As noted at the outset, several prophets and apostles have made statements about the Lamanites, including sometimes in temple dedicatory prayers. There are good lists at FairMormon. The 19th Century is here. The 20th Century is here. The 21st Century is here. (Notice, that list includes no statements about Cumorah.)

These statements have been cited to criticize the North American setting, including the New York Cumorah. I’ve already explained why I don’t think that argument works, and why these statements actually are more consistent with a New York Cumorah than any non-New York Cumorah. But it’s useful to take a closer look at the temple dedicatory prayers that are so frequently cited.

Generally, the views expressed in these statements reflect a hemispheric concept of Lamanite people; i.e., the “descendants of Lehi” are identified as residing in the land around Cardston, Alberta, (Heber J. Grant’s dedication of the Cardston temple in 1923) all the way south to Sao Paulo, Brazil (President Kimball’s dedication of the Sao Paulo temple in 1978).

The prototype for temple dedicatory prayers is D&C 109, the dedication of the Kirtland temple. Verses 65-66 refer to the “remnants of Jacob” this way: “65 And cause that the remnants of Jacob, who have been cursed and smitten because of their transgression, be converted from their wild and savage condition to the fulness of the everlasting gospel; 66 That they may lay down their weapons of bloodshed, and cease their rebellions.” In context, this terminology refers to the American Indians in the United States, a discussion we can have if anyone doesn’t see that.

In my database of temple dedicatory prayers, I note that the term Lamanites has not been used since 1978. The most specific identification of Lamanites was in the 1975 Mesa Arizona rededicatory prayer: “Thou didst acknowledge the role of the Lamanite, especially in this temple, and numerous of the sons and daughters of Lehi have found in these sacred precincts peace, knowledge and solace to their souls.

The term Lehi has been used more recently and more frequently, but an interesting trend has developed that coincides with the changes to the Introduction to the Book of Mormon.

First, look at the 1983 Mexico City temple dedication: “Bless Thy saints in this great land and those from other lands who will use this temple. Most have in their veins the blood of Father Lehi. Thou hast kept Thine ancient promise. Many thousands “that walked in darkness have seen a great light.””

The 1986 Lima Peru temple prayer includes this passage: “We are particularly mindful this day of the sons and daughters of Lehi. They have known so much of suffering and sorrow in their many generations. They have walked in darkness and in servitude. Now Thou hast touched them by the light of the everlasting gospel. The shackles of darkness are falling from their eyes as they embrace the truths of Thy great work. Surely father Lehi has wept with sorrow over his posterity. Surely he weeps today with gladness, for in this holy house there will be exercised the fullness of the priesthood to the blessing, not only of those of this and future generations, but also to the blessing of those of previous generations.”

The 2000 Tuxtla Gutierrez Mexico Temple: “We invoke Thy blessings upon this nation of Mexico where so many of the sons and daughters of Father Lehi dwell.

The 2002 Snowflake Arizona temple: “We are grateful that this Thy house will be available to the sons and daughters of Lehi who live nearby. Let the scales of darkness fall from their eyes and bring a fulfillment of the ancient promises made concerning them. May this house become a hallowed sanctuary for many of these, our brothers and sisters.”

After 2002, I can’t find any examples of a dedicatory prayer specifically stating where Lehi’s descendants live. This includes temples throughout Latin America, including the rededications of the Mexico City temple in 2008 and 2015.

Now, notice the timing of the Introduction:

It was added to the text in 1981, when it said the Lamanites “are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.”

It was changed in 2007 to read the Lamanites “are among the ancestors of the American Indians.”

I’m not saying the change in the Introduction drove the changes in the temple dedicatory prayers. It may be an example of coincidence and not causation. But it could also be a shift in understanding that appears in both the Introduction and the temple dedicatory prayers.

That said, I note that dedications of temples in Mexico, Peru, Argentina, Honduras, Brazil, and Guatemala include this sentence: “We thank Thee for the sacred record of Lehi, Nephi and Jacob, Alma and Mosiah, Benjamin and Mormon, and of Moroni.”

The 2011 dedication of the Quetzaltenango Guatemala temple included these sentences: “Thou kind and gracious Father, our hearts are filled with gratitude for Thy remembrance of the sons and daughters of Lehi. Thou hast heard their cries and seen their tears. Thou hast accepted their righteous sacrifices.” The 2013 dedicatory prayer of the Tegucigalpa Honduras Temple included these: “Our hearts are filled with gratitude for Thy blessing of the sons and daughters of Lehi. Thou hast heard their cries and seen their tears. Thou hast accepted their righteous sacrifices.”

These sentences could be interpreted to imply Lamanites live in Guatemala and Honduras, but they could also be of more general application, like the expression of gratitude for the Book of Mormon that immediately follows in both prayers.

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Hinterlands

In 2013, there was a brilliant article and presentation titled “Heartland as Hinterland: The Mesoamerican Core and North American Periphery of Book of Mormon Geography.” It was an attempt to explain Joseph Smith’s statements about the Nephites in North America by attributing them to Nephites who had escaped to the north. In my view, the article introduced a valuable concept, but got the geography and evidence backward; i.e., the core of Book of Mormon geography is in North America, while Mesoamerica is the periphery. I have a chapter about this in the Second Edition of The Lost City of Zarahemla (picture right) so I won’t repeat the discussion here, but if you read the article, I’d like to point out a few key points.

First, the premise relies on the anonymous 1842 articles in the Times and Seasons. I’ve offered considerable evidence that Joseph Smith had nothing to do with these articles, but instead they reflected the views of Benjamin Winchester, William Smith, John E. Page, and others. In fact, the article quotes John E. Page for authority.

Second, notice that the article includes a section on Cumorah that never even mentions Letter VII. It’s as if Letter VII didn’t exist, which is what you’ll see in all the publications by Mesoamerican proponents. Nor does it refer to the repository in the New York hill that Joseph and Oliver visited, even though it quotes Mormon 6:6.

Third, the article contains a claim that the term “plains of the Nephites,” which Joseph used to describe the Midwestern states he crossed during Zion’s Camp, “are never mentioned in the Book of Mormon.” Yet the article acknowledges “there are multiple plains attested to in the text.” The argument is summarized here: “Plains in the text of the Book of Mormon are always attached to a specific city. Those in Joseph’s letter to Emma are not.” Think about that one.

I mention this article here because it is the best one I know of that seeks to justify the Mesoamerican setting in the light of Joseph’s own statements about North America. Because it omits key facts such as Letter VII, it succeeds for Mesoamerican proponents who seek to confirm their biases. But it is also important because it addresses a key point in relation to the statements of the prophets about Lamanites throughout the hemisphere.

The last section of the article has this heading: “Evidence for Mesoamerican/North American Interaction.” It includes this observation:

“In 2003 a study was done that compared the DNA of the Ohio Hopewell with fifty indigenous populations from both North and Central America, and they found Central American and even South American markers. This, of course, demonstrates that the interaction between the two regions involved more than just the trading of goods and ideas. For the genetic markers to be so prevalent it is likely that there was a significant amount of procreation, more than is likely than from the occasional Mesoamerican merchant passing through town.”

There is increasing acceptance of the idea that Mayans migrated northward when much of their core civilization collapsed around 800-900 A.D. A month ago I was in Paducah, Kentucky, where a placard pointed out that the Mississippian culture, “around 700 years ago, exhibit a series of parallel, if not diffused cultural traits originating from Mesoamerica.” Later, these groups returned to their homeland in Central America, taking with them the heredity that the prophets have mentioned.

In conclusion, I think the statements by the prophets and apostles about the Hill Cumorah being in New York, starting with 1835 Letter VII and continuing through General Conference in the 1970s, are conclusive and should be accepted by all LDS. The objections to that position–that the New York hill doesn’t match the text and/or is too far from some other preferred setting–are unpersuasive because they are not supported by facts and they use circular reasoning to confirm the predetermined conclusions about the other preferred settings.

I also think the statements by the prophets and apostles about the identity and location of the Lamanites fall into two camps. Joseph Smith was specific when he identified the Lamanites as the American Indians living in the United States. He never identified any other group as Lamanites. However, some of his contemporaries, and several later prophets and apostles, have identified groups throughout the Western Hemisphere and even in the Pacific islands as Lamanites (or descendants of Lehi).

I don’t think these two camps conflict. Joseph (and the Lord, in the D&C) were specific because they were identifying people who had the highest concentration of Lehi’s blood. Others were more generalized because they were identifying people who have, or may have, more attenuated heredity linked to Lehi, even though it doesn’t show up in their DNA.

The generalized Lamanite statements have no bearing on the New York Cumorah issue one way or the other, because a New York Cumorah can coexist with a wide dispersal of Lehi’s posterity.

However, I think Joseph Smith’s specific statements about the Lamanites fully corroborate his statements on the North American setting generally and the New York Cumorah specifically.

NOTES:
* The first response to criticism based on DNA is that we don’t know what DNA Lehi’s group brought with them. To write the famous Wentworth letter, Joseph Smith edited an earlier pamphlet by Orson Pratt. Orson had written, “The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem, about six-hundred years before Christ, being Israelites, principally the descendants of Joseph.” Joseph Smith changed that to read “The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem, about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites, of the descendants of Joseph.” This is a significant change. Joseph Smith is telling us that Lehi’s group were not all Israelites. And we don’t even know what DNA markers the Israelite portion had.

The second response is that DNA only preserves limited markers; it’s not a complete genealogy.

** There is controversy about the X2 haplotype that is beyond the scope of this post, but if anyone’s interested, we can discuss it in another post. The controversy involves the split between different groups with distinctive X2 haplotype attributes. The prevailing view, based on mutation rates derived from evolutionary theory and the millions of years it has taken to evolve, holds that the X2 in the Americas split off 10,000 years or more before the present time. This would mean Lehi’s group was too recent so the ancient American people must have descended from another unknown group that had the X2 haplotype. The alternative view, based on mutation rates derived from observation, concludes that the X2 haplotype split off from the Middle-Eastern group around 600 B.C.

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

For a FREE download of Rod’s 170 page book titled, “Book of Mormon Remnant through DNA”, visit our website HERE!

Who is the Whore of all the Earth?

We are in a constant battle between good and evil. The purpose of life is not to avoid trials, but to embrace what you are to learn from God with your existing trial. As long as you are repenting and turning to God often, you will overcome evil. His goal is to bring to pass our immortality and a life with Him.

Who is the Whore of all the Earth?

“11 I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people., and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory. There are millions of great people all over the world who love God, and repent and love everyday. We must not forget this. I do not lump all people in the same category, and I don’t say all evil people are of Satan. It depends whether society is trying to be better and not simply getting worse. Each of us have vast swings between right and wrong. I am happy to not be a judge, “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:” John 5:22. He is fair and loves us, He just hates the sin.

15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.

16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel. 1 Nephi 14:11-17

This is the situation we are in Today on September 24, 2022.
The end of Shemita and the beginning of a new Jubilee

The Book of Mormon Current as the Daily News!

“Elder Gordon B. Hinckley, 1st Counselor to President Ezra Taft Benson, proclaimed that the Book of Mormon “is as current as the morning newspaper”, “in its descriptions of the problems of today’s society.” The Power of the Book of Mormon, Ensign June 1988 The American Prophet Moroni testified that “Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.” Mormon 8:35

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Using these two quotations as a guide, author Rod Meldrum explores some of the Book of Mormon prophecies that pertain to our day and compare them directly with news headlines from the mainstream media of the USA. To understand the signs of our day, we must read the Book of Mormon!
 
Trailer Here!  Using the two quotations above as a guide, author Rod Meldrum explores some of the Book of Mormon prophecies that pertain to our day and compare them directly with news headlines from the mainstream media of the USA. WE STILL HAVE TIME!

The Book of Mormon Prophets warned a very specific nation about the consequences of being wicked, upon God’s Promised Land. Rod’s DVD discusses the 4 Sacred Covenants that George Washington invoked at St. Paul’s Cathedral during his inauguration – the same sacred ground the New York Twin Towers collapsed on during 9-11. Take a trip through current news headlines and see why America’s promised blessings are now being revoked, leaving her in grave peril and judgment from God. With this warning will the people living in our nation, foretold by ancient prophets in the Book of Mormon still serve Jesus Christ, the God of this sacred covenant land? Shemita in 2022 on will happen on September 25th. What may we see or what may happen if anything?

The Year of the Jubilee!

“Now the Jubilee Year in Israel, as revealed in the Bible is significant in God’s prophetic calendar. The word “jubilee”—literally, “ram’s horn” in Hebrew—is defined in Leviticus 25:9 as the sabbatical year after seven cycles of seven years (49 years). The fiftieth year was to be a time of celebration and rejoicing for the Israelites. The ram’s horn was blown on the tenth day of the seventh month to start the fiftieth year of universal redemption. The Year of the Jubilee involved a year of release from indebtedness (Leviticus 25:23-38) and all types of bondage (vv. 39-55). All prisoners and captives were set free, all slaves were released, all debts were forgiven, and all property was returned to its original owners. In addition, all labour was to cease for one year, and those bound by labour contracts were released from them. One of the benefits of the Jubilee was that both the land and the people were able to rest. This Jubilee also relates to the work of salvation where, through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Gentiles through repentance and faith in Jesus for salvation, can be set free from slavery to Satan and to sin and delivered from this present evil age.

Who is this Whore over the Whole Earth?

10 Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.

11 And now, my son, all men that are in a state of nature, or I would say, in a carnal state, are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; they are without God in the world, and they have gone contrary to the nature of God; therefore, they are in a state contrary to the nature of happiness.” Alma 41:10-11

The Whore is obviously that which gives us the wrong kind of happiness. Power and money end soon, Life Eternal with God does not. “No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and Mammon.” 3 Nephi 13:24. Whom do we serve? “Choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15

In my opinion there are many names for evil who we may be serving and don’t even realize it. It is easy to be deceived. For many years I have loved sports. As a young boy I loved watching the NBA. Today however they seem to be all about money and power and that has driven the game into much evil. It is hard to watch now. Players are cocky, and arrogant, as it has lost its spirit. In the same way I used to think the CIA was a cool organization and wouldn’t it be nice as a young man to be a secret agent? Not today. The CIA is the center of evil at the higher ends. I am sure there are a few good agents, but like in the NBA there are very few who seek the Lord’s work. Now that is being judgmental, but what is wrong with that? I am not judging them as an individual but as a group or agency, so I an not deceived as them being an organization of light.

The Book of Mormon says, “And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.” 2 Nephi 9:9

Consider each of these names or subjects below and as the Lord says, “search the scriptures” John 5:39.

Who are they? Do they have my best interest at heart? This is where one of my favorite scriptures comes in which says, “it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.” D&C 121:39.

That is the problem with almost all the names below. (Actually it is greater than “almost all, if that is possible)?

Here is evil! The Cabal, Illuminatti, Nazi, Communist, Bolshevik, Khazarian, Zionists, Synagogue of Satan, Cult of Baal, Baphomet, Malta, Templars, Jesuits, CIA, Masons, Ndrahgheta, NATO, Black Nobility, Holy Roman Empire, The Crown, Atonists, Sabbatian Frankists, Saturnist, Pharaohs, Akhenaten, Lilith, Osiris, Black Nobility, Black Pope, Rothchild, Rockefeller, Vatican, Zion of the Alps, World Economic Forum, UN, FBI, CDC, Saudi Royals, Octogone Group, Isis, Dutch East India, 13 Families, Grand Orient, CCP, Mossad, MI6, Antifa, Arab Spring, Jihadist, Black Lives Matter, Main Stream Media, WHO, Pontifical Swiss Guard, Big Pharma, Big Tech, Hollywood, Cults, Occult, Evil Movies and Music, Black cube, Hexagon Group, Pharmacia, Adrenochrome, Sex Trafficking, Bilderberg, Cults of Abraham, Council of 50, League of Nations, Committee of 300, and many more!

Not every aspect of everything I listed is totally evil but they are all either total or very near as of today. For example there are good movies and evil movies, good pharmacists and evil pharmacists, good ball players and evil ball players. There are always two sides. There are people in Hollywood who may be good, but I am afraid the vast majority are very evil in my opinion. Great people work at McDonald’s but many evil people at the top who run it are evil. Not the managers and burger flippers, the large corporate offices and those who make the billions of dollars are part of D&C 121:39. “Almost All.”

The fact is there are two sides in war today. I believe the evil are the creator of both sides of war as the Lord would have no part in it. Unfortunately the US Government today I believe is more evil than good. Yes our Constitution is God-Given but evil people are in control of it. There are over 80% of all Countries that have 15-20% who are evil as their leaders, but there are 60-70% or more that really are wonderful people in all places in the world.

Humility is Good

Why do most of us have to be “compelled” to be humble? We wait until difficulties arrive and then turn to God? We would same time and anguish if we just became “humble because of the word.”

13 And now, because ye are compelled to be humble blessed are ye; for a man sometimes, if he is compelled to be humble, seeketh repentance; and now surely, whosoever repenteth shall find mercy; and he that findeth mercy and endureth to the end the same shall be saved.

14 And now, as I said unto you, that because ye were compelled to be humble ye were blessed, do ye not suppose that they are more blessed who truly humble themselves because of the word?” Alma 32:13-14

Why Are Many Not Chosen?

I am not a conspiracy theorists by saying these things. I know there are only two paths, “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Matt. 7:13-15. I am a truth-Seeker and I see a little bit of truth in most things.

“And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few” 1 Nephi 14:12. Why? Because it is harder and takes more effort. It’s easy to go see a movie, and difficult to sit through Sacrament Meeting, but why? Focus, and Desire, and the humility of our Spirit. 

And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example before them.” 2 Nephi 31:9. Straight gates are always harder to enter. Being politically correct and acting Woke, are easy and there are plenty that act this way.

Good vs Evil and God vs Satan. That’s it. Satan pits Man vs Woman, Black vs White, Abortion vs Life, Gay vs Straight,  Vaxxed vs non-Vaxxed, Democrat vs Republican, Community vs Individual, Left vs Right. Anything Satan does is Divide and Conquer or by Hook or by Crook. (Think what the Pharaohs carried in each hand). All the Lord does is bring us together, both Black and White, Bond and Free, Rich and Poor.

We read in D&C 121, “34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?

35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—

36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.

39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.” D&C 121:34-40

Today, Many are not Chosen Because of the Whore

Who is Today’s Whore Over the whole Earth? The Deep State

“Noun- Plural Deep States: an alleged secret network of especially nonelected government officials and sometimes  private entities (as in the financial services and defense industries) operating extralegally to influence and enact government policy

The power of the deep state comes from experience, knowledge, relationships, insight, craft, special skills, traditions, and shared values. Together, these purported attributes make nameless bureaucrats into a super government that is accountable to no one. That is a scary prospect. David Rothkopf
What the archbishop suspected was a crime stage-managed by Turkey’s “deep state“—an opaque underworld where powerful elements within the state, especially the military and security services, act in conjunction with violent extremist groups … as well as the apolitical criminal underworld, to undertake special, illegal operations in the political interest of the country’s ruling elite. John Eibner”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deep%20state

Where did the The Deep State Theory Originate?

“Although the term ‘deep state’ is thought to have originated in Turkey in the 1990s, belief in the concept of a deep state has been present in the United States since at least the 1950s. A 1955 article in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, quotes Americans sharing their belief in the existence of a “dual state”: a hidden national security hierarchy and shadow government that monitors and controls elected politicians.

In 2014, former Congressional staffer Mike Lofgren alleged that there was a deep state protecting “powerful vested interests” and that a “web of entrenched interests in the US government and beyond … dictate America’s defense decisions, trade policies and priorities with little regard for the actual interests or desires of the American people“.

In 2017, former Democratic U.S. Representative Dennis Kucinich alleged that there were individuals in the intelligence community attempting to sabotage relations between the United States and Russia.

Political scientist George Friedman alleges that such a deep state has existed since 1871, when the president’s power over federal employees was restricted. Historian Alfred W. McCoy argued that the increase in the power of the United States Intelligence Community since the September 11 attacks “has built a fourth branch of the U.S. government” that is “in many ways autonomous from the executive, and increasingly so”. Wikipedia

The “Deep State” Theory, Explained

“Instead of a group comprised exclusively of government entities, Lofgren calls the deep state in the United States “a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process.” The Deep State, wrote Lofgren, is not “a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day. It is not a tight-knit group and has no clear objective. Rather, it is a sprawling network, stretching across the government and into the private sector.”

In some ways, Lofgren’s description of a deep state in the United States echoes parts of President Dwight Eisenhower’s 1961 farewell address, in which he warned future presidents to “guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.” https://www.thoughtco.com/deep-state-definition-4142030

An Answer to the Deep State Today?

The Book of Mormon of course, was written for our day. We hear this and we understand the importance of that statement, and today I would like to share a message in a way we can understand the time we live in today. We can understand evil and war and at the same time rejoice in Christ and thank Him for the revelations in the Book of Mormon.

I realize the Nephite record mentions much about war and bloodshed, much about evil and abominations. I don’t think wars and evil are included in the record to scare us or to glorify sin, but to perhaps to make us think, as Amulek said, “We shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.” Alma 11:42 We should look inward at ourselves, not outward about evil and war and what tragedy may come upon us. Look to God and live as the scriptures say.

“Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your filthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell.” Mormon 9:4. It’s hard to even imagine living with God and being filthy.

Can Miracles Cease?

There is only one reason miracles could cease among us. “And the reason why he ceaseth to do miracles among the children of men is because that they dwindle in unbelief, and depart from the right way, and know not the God in whom they should trust.” Mormon 9:20

We live in a day today as Mormon describes below. Think of the deceptions of our government, the evil of Gadianton’s, the killing of children, and the committing of murder today. Today is even as Sodom and Gomorrah and  is probably worse.

Jesus Christ hath Shown you unto Me.

“Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be murders, and robbing, and lying, and deceiving’s, and whoredoms, and all manner of abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it mattereth not, for the Lord will uphold such at the last day.” Mormon 8:31

35 Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing. Mormon 8: 35

“Declare their sin to be even as Sodom, and they cannot hide it. Wo unto their souls, for they have rewarded evil unto themselves! 2 Nephi 13:9

“The Lord will discover their secret parts. 2 Nephi 13:17

Sodom and Gomorrah

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.” Jude 1:6-7

Gainsaying of Core

In every generation there are those who creep into the church and engage in the gainsaying of Core: coming against the Word of God. Core, a close relative to Moses, was unwilling to face Moses directly. Instead he spread his disgruntlement to others, convincing men of renown to outnumber and rise up against the man of God https://rumble.com/vp5dx5-jude-111-the-gainsaying-of-core-jude-series-16.html

Great Pit vs Stumbling Blocks

1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—

2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.

3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.

4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him. 1 Nephi 14: 1-4

Secret Combinations Then and Now

John F. Kennedy said, “This deadly challenge imposes upon our society two requirements of direct concern both to the press and to the President–two requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national peril.

I refer, first, to the need for a far greater public information; and, second, to the need for far greater official secrecy. The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.

Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment…

It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions–by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influenceon infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match…

Every newspaper now asks itself, with respect to every story: “Is it news?” All I suggest is that you add the question: “Is it in the interest of the national security?” And I hope that every group in America–unions and businessmen and public officials at every level– will ask the same question of their endeavors, and subject their actions to the same exacting tests… Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed–and no republic can survive.

That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by the First Amendment– the only business in America specifically protected by the Constitution- -not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to simply “give the public what it wants”–but to inform, to arouse, to reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our crises and our choices, to lead, mold, educate and sometimes even anger public opinion.”

THE PRESIDENT AND THE PRESS: ADDRESS BEFORE THE AMERICAN NEWSPAPER PUBLISHERS ASSOCIATION, APRIL 27, 1961 President John F. Kennedy Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City April 27, 1961 JFK Library


It is time to wake up

That doesn’t mean we have to study nor even dwell on anything evil or wrong. That does mean we need to write congress, tell our neighbor, be on the look out of abused and trafficked children, talk to our school boards, reject these pride parades and evil in our neighborhoods. And stay close to the Lord.

Also, come and enjoy our 30th Book of Mormon Evidence Conference. Our speakers will give you hundreds of ways to help and make this world better.

Hear Kate Dalley- Presentation Title: Underestimating Satan
Tickets – Speakers Schedule

What Causes Societies Destruction?

Easy answer. Secret societies and secret combinations. Moroni wouldn’t[t even detail the evil associated with these evils spoken of in Ether. What caused the destruction of the Jaredites and Nephites is the same that will destroy us. We must know who they are and what they do to avoid the evil of these Deep State entities.

The Book of Ether Chapter 8 says, “And Akish did administer unto them the oaths which were given by them of old who also sought power, which had been handed down even from Cain, who was a murderer from the beginning. And they were kept up by the power of the devil to administer these oaths unto the people, to keep them in darkness, to help such as sought power to gain power, and to murder, and to plunder, and to lie, and to commit all manner of wickedness and whoredoms.” Ether 8:15-16

18 And it came to pass that they formed a secret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;

19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.

20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.

21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.” Ether 8:18-21

The Lord Controls the Waters, not Satan

Destroyer upon the Waters

In the scriptures in Section 61 there is a warning concerning the waters that seems to me that focus specifically on the Missouri River (“these waters”). Many of the water routes to Zion and even more generally all water routes may be more challenging than traveling by land. It is not clear from Section 61 if these verses curse all waters, including lakes and ponds or even in that matter a bathtub or a swimming pool. There is much “Mormon lore” out there.

In section 61 it seems to me more of a general warning, as the saints were not treating each other very good at all while in that canoe, and so I am sure the spirit of contention being near made it easy for William Phelps and Joseph to see the destroyer on the waters as that is where their contention was happening.

The connection between missionary policy and the reference to the “destroyer” riding the face of the waters in D&C 61 is a persistent Mormon urban legend. One must consider that LDS missionaries frequently travel by water to reach remote islands. Before the advent of modern air travel, all overseas missionaries were required to travel by ship to Europe, Asia, and other foreign lands. Missionaries, of course, bathe and perform baptisms in water.

The Church has a general policy prohibiting full-time missionaries from swimming. This is simply a safety precaution to prevent drowning or other water related accidents. There are a number of other mission rules that vary depending upon the mission. For example, some missions prohibit missionaries from playing basketball. Rock climbing is usually a prohibited activity. Mission rules are designed to keep missionaries safe by preventing them from participating in high-risk physical activities.” Source


The Lord Has Blessed the Land and Cursed the Waters

“Section 61, The Lord Has Blessed the Land and Cursed the Waters,” Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (2002), 131–32

Historical Background

This revelation was received by the Prophet Joseph Smith on the bank of the Missouri River, McIlwaine’s Bend, on 12 August 1831. The Prophet wrote:

“On the 9th, in company with ten Elders, I left Independence landing for Kirtland. We started down the river in canoes, and went the first day as far as Fort Osage, where we had an excellent wild turkey for supper. Nothing very important occurred till the third day, when many of the dangers so common upon the western waters, manifested themselves; and after we had encamped upon the bank of the river, at McIlwaine’s Bend, Brother Phelps, in open vision by daylight, saw the destroyer in his most horrible power, ride upon the face of the waters; others heard the noise, but saw not the vision. “The next morning after prayer, I received the following: [D&C 61].” (History of the Church, 1:202–3.)

D&C 61:1–4, 6, 19.

The Brethren Were to Bear Record

The Lord commanded the elders to bear record of Satan and his power upon the waters (see D&C 61:4, 19), and of the power of God for the benefit of the faithful (see vv. 1, 6). To fulfill this responsibility, it would be necessary for them to come in contact with people, hence, the Lord’s reminder that while traveling by canoe they were not able to meet people who needed to hear the gospel message (see vv. 3–5, 20–22, 30–32).


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 D&C 61:5–19. How Is the Water “Cursed”?

President Joseph Fielding Smith pointed out how “in the beginning the Lord blessed the waters and cursed the land, but in these last days this was reversed, the land was to be blessed and the waters to be cursed. A little reflection will bear witness to the truth of this declaration.

In the early millenniums of this earth’s history, men did not understand the composition of the soils, and how they needed building up when crops were taken from them. The facilities at the command of the people were primitive and limited, acreage under cultivation was limited, famines were prevalent and the luxuries which we have today were not obtainable.

Someone may rise up and say that the soil in those days was just as productive as now, and this may be the case. It is not a matter of dispute, but the manner of cultivation did not lend itself to the abundant production which we are receiving today. It matters not what the causes were, in those early days of world history there could not be the production, nor the varieties of fruits coming from the earth, and the Lord can very properly speak of this as a curse, or the lack of blessing, upon the land. In those early periods we have every reason to believe that the torrents, floods, and the dangers upon the waters were not as great as they are today, and by no means as great as what the Lord has promised us.

The early mariners among the ancients traversed the seas as they knew them in that day in comparative safety. … Today this manner of travel in such boats would be of the most dangerous and risky nature. Moreover, we have seen the dangers upon the waters increase until the hearts of men failed them and only the brave, and those who were compelled to travel the seas, ventured out upon them.

In regard to the Missouri-Mississippi waters, we have seen year by year great destruction upon them, and coming from them. Millions upon millions of dollars, almost annually are lost by this great stream overflowing its banks. Many have lost their lives in these floods as they sweep over the land, and even upon this apparently tranquil or sluggish stream there can arise storms that bring destruction. Verily the word of the Lord has been, and is being, fulfilled in relation to those waters. While the Lord has spoken of the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds, and the waves roaring, yet we must include the great destruction upon the waters by means of war, and especially by submarine warfare as we have learned of it in recent years.” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 1:224; see also Genesis 3:17–19Ether 7:23–259:16, 28Revelation 16:1–6Alma 45:16D&C 59:316–19.)

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-61-the-lord-has-blessed-the-land-and-cursed-the-waters?lang=eng

The Lord Controls the Waters, not Satan

“The interpretation history of section 61 is a good example of what happens when scripture is not read in context and when it is too quickly applied universally instead of limited to the situation it was originally about. It does not say that Satan controls the water.

The Missouri River was well known to be dangerous, “ever-varying,” and full of submerged trees that could capsize or sink a steamboat, not to mention a canoe.1 Joseph and the elders launched their canoes at the Missouri River landing just north of Independence, Missouri, and headed home to Ohio. They camped at Fort Osage and “had an excellent wild turkey for supper.” The good food did little to keep the men satisfied under the stressful conditions.

During their second day on the river, “a spirit of animosity and discord” infected the group. “The conduct of the Elders became very displeasing to Oliver Cowdery.” He prophesied, “As the Lord God liveth, if you do not behave better, some accident will befall you.” 2 At some point William Phelps “saw the Destroyer, in his most horrible power, ride upon the face of the waters, ”though what that means is uncertain and ought not to be interpreted to mean that Satan controls the waters without more revelation.3

Contention continued the next day. Joseph got frustrated. Some of the elders refused to paddle, and at least one of the canoes hit a submerged tree and nearly capsized. Joseph urged the frightened group to get off the river. Some of the men called him a coward. They landed on the north side of the river at McIlwaine’s Bend (now Miami), set up camp as best they could, and convened a council to address the contention. Some of the elders were critical of Oliver’s rebuke. Some criticized Joseph for being “quite dictatorial.” Joseph got defensive and the council went on for some hours until, early in the morning, everyone reconciled.4

Speaking of section 61, Joseph’s history says, “The next morning after prayer, I received the following.” 5. John Whitmer described the revelation as a “commandment given Aug 12th 1831 on the Bank of the River Destruction (or Missorie) unfolding some mysteries.”6

In section 61, the omnipotent Lord commands the elders gathered on the banks of the Missouri River to hear and obey him. He forgives their sins. He mercifully forgives the sins of all who humbly confess them. He says they don’t all need to travel quickly down the river while settlers on either side need to be taught the gospel. The Lord explains that he let the elders experience the river’s terrors so they could testify of the danger to others.

The Lord has angrily decreed that water will be a destructive element, especially the Missouri River. But he holds mankind in his hands and will preserve the faithful among this group of elders from drowning. The Lord has kept the group together this long so they can be corrected and purified from their sins, become unified, and thus escape the punishment for their wickedness. Now it’s time to split up, and the Lord gives specific assignments and instructs Sidney Gilbert, the bishop’s assistant, to give them enough money to fulfill their assignments.

Close reading of section 61 shows that the Lord controls the waters, not Satan. That is true for dry land as well. God blessed the waters during the creation process. He later cursed them (see Revelation 8:8–11). The day will come when only the honest-hearted will be able to safely travel to Zion by water. The Lord explains that after the Fall he cursed the land for Adam’s sake, but in the latter days he blessed it to be fertile for the Saints’ sake. The Lord commands the elders to warn the other Saints not to travel on the dangerous Missouri River without faith.

William Phelps carried out the commandment in this revelation to tell all the Saints about the dangers of traveling to Zion in Missouri on the Missouri River. He published the revelation in the Church’s newspaper, The Evening and the Morning Star, along with an editorial listing the most notable “risks and dangers.” First, there were frequent disasters on the river. Second, he warned, there was cholera, a devastating water borne illness “which the Lord has sent into the world, and which may, without repentance, ravage the large towns near the waters, many years, or, at least, till other judgments come.”7

Phelps also wrote a short history of his stay in Missouri, in which he told how section 61 influenced his return to Ohio: I, in company with Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and others started by water for Ohio, but being cautioned in a Revelation given at, McElwain’s bend, that Missouri River was cursed, all the company save myself and brother Gilbert left the river and proceeded by land. I was assured by revelation, to be safe by land or water. 8″ Harper, Steven C.. “Section 61.” In Doctrine and Covenants Contexts, 140-142. Springville, UT: Book of Mormon Central, 2021.


Notes:

1 See “Historical Introduction” to “Revelation, 12 August 1831 [D&C 61],”p. 101, The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed September5, 2020.

2 Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed(Painesville, Ohio, 1834), 204.

3 “History, 1838–1856, volume A-1 [23 December 1805–30 August 1834],” p. 142, The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed September 5, 2020; Richard Lyman Bushman, Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling (New York: Knopf, 2005), 164.

4 Ezra Booth to Edward Partridge, September 20, 1831, in the Ohio Star, November 24, 1831.

5 “ History, 1838 – 1856, volume A-
1 [23 December 1805–30 August 1834],” p. 142, The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed September 5, 2020.
6 “Revelation, 12 August 1831 [D&C 61],” p. 101, The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed September 5, 2020

7 William Phelps, “The Way of Journeying for the Saints of the Church of Christ,” The Evening and the Morning Star (December 1832): 1:52–53.

8 Short History of WW Phelps’ Stay in Missouri, Church History Library, Salt Lake City

Church Historian Opinions vs Scriptures

Truth comes from Personal and Doctrinal Revelation from Christ, and Scriptures translated correctly from Christ, not opinion. Information that comes from You or Myself, or from Church Historians, or BYU Intellects, is all the same. We read, we study, we pray, and we stick to our biases. If we don’t have revelation, the second best choice is Canonized Scripture.

A quote by Book of Mormon Central, from the article titled “The Spectacles, the Stone, the
Hat, and the Book: A Twenty-first Century Believer’s View of the Book of Mormon Translation”, by Roger Nicolson says
, “These accounts come from both believing and nonbelieving sources, and some skepticism ought to be employed in choosing to accept some of the interpretations offered by some of these sources as fact.”

This quote above, is why we should learn from the scriptures about the true instruments used to translate the Book of Mormon.


Actual Instruments Used in Translation

Because there is no official Church Doctrine on the translation method, Scriptures can prove Joseph’s Translation Tools and Method. No one can accurately define exactly what the “gift and power of God” means, but we know Joseph used what was found in the stone box. Plates, breastplate, spectacles. That’s it! How they worked or what the Spirit did to assist Joseph we know not, but those three instruments WERE used.

Because Joseph was commanded to not show anyone these 3 items unless commanded, I show two paintings by Ann Marie Oborn that will show you what the scriptures suggest in my opinion.

Oliver Testifies He sees all Three Instruments

When Cowdery returned to Church membership in 1848 he spoke to an Iowa conference. His words there were recorded by Reuben Miller: “I wrote with my own pen the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet as he translated it by the gift and power of God by means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by that book, holy interpreters. I beheld with my eyes and handled with my hands the gold plates from which it was translated. I also beheld the Interpreters. That book is true. … I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet.”

The Miller journal can be tested by comparing it with official records of the Cowdery speeches, and it is clearly accurate. Thus the above words are likely to be Cowdery verbatim. This judgment is essential because in the report Oliver Cowdery says, “I … handled with my hands the gold plates.” Yet another Witness, David Whitmer, insisted that he had never handled the plates; he only watched as the angel in the vision displayed the plates and other sacred objects. Since Whitmer and Cowdery were together at this impressive vision, one must infer that Cowdery did not handle the plates at that time. Thus a distinction emerges between the key secretary and his witness brother-in-law: at some time during the translation process Oliver Cowdery evidently handled the plates. “By the Gift and Power of God” By Richard Lloyd Anderson


Debate Should End with Scriptures Message

Many of today’s Church Historians get it wrong about several important issues. I am not smarter than they, nor do I  have a higher degree of learning than they do, and I also know some of these Historians and I know many have the same strong testimony about the Book of Mormon that I do. I just have done some research by reading and pondering the following scriptures, that answer a big question for me. What instrument(s) did Joseph Smith use to translate the gold plates? Answer: “These Stones, Fastened to a Breastplate…” JSH 1:35. No where in the scriptures does it say a stone in a hat was used to translate. It should end there, to those who believe in the scriptures.

JSH 1:35,52,62,75*; Mosiah 28:13, 20; Ether 3:22-23; 4:5; Alma 37:21, 24-25

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Joseph and Oliver were the Only Two Eye-Witnesses

Proper method of translation on the left. Art by Anne Marie Oborn
“In Joseph Smith’s day, some individuals claimed that they had a gift to “see,” or receive divine or supernatural messages, through seer stones. These beliefs came from the Bible and from European cultural traditions brought to early America by immigrants.” Church History Topics-Seer Stones.


Many so-called seer stones or peep-stones were found all over New York. Joseph Smith is known to have a brown and a white stone that were not used for translation.

Are we Entitled to our own Seer Stone?

This map below shows the approximate location of the retrieval sites and the dig sites of many so-called seer stones in New York. David Whitmer and family, and Hiram Page found stones near Ithaca, NY. Joseph’s brown stone was found near the south shore of Lake Erie near Chautauqua Lake and Joseph’s white stone was found just west of Palmyra on the Chase farm. There was also a Nauvoo stone found. Each stone represented is similar to its actual looks. The Jack Belcher stone here  is a picture of the actual stone found near Harmony that was sold recently for $75,000. I have also added the location of Book of Mormon cities and sites as the Heartland theory believes. Notice the Oswego River where the Native American Traditions say Mormon was buried by them after a large battle?

“Joseph Smith, Jr. said, every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness.” – Prophet Brigham Young, “History of Brigham Young,” Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star, v. 26, February 20, 1864

“The power of seership is one of the greatest gifts ever given to man; and the time is not far distant when every man who bears the Priesthood will be a seer. But it can only be when men have proved themselves able to withstand all of the false deceptions of the devil. Today the powers of crystal ball gazers, astrologers, ouija boards, etc., are abounding because men have forsaken or rejected the true seers of God. Thousands of people seek unto ‘wizards who peep and mutter’ etc., but they will not seek unto the living God. I can say to all the inhabitants of the earth that before what is called spiritualism was ever known in America, I told the people that if they would not believe the revelations that God had given, He would suffer the devil to give revelations that they–priests and people would follow after. .  . I told the people that as true as God lived, if they would not have the truth they would have error sent to them, and they would believe it.”  (Brigham Young, Des. News, June 18, 1871, p. 308) (See Revelation 2:17 and D&C 130:11)

What is Doctrine and what is simply Opinion? We can know through our Prophets and Personal Revelation.

The Church information about, “Book of Mormon Translation” is an essay that says many things that I believe are opinion and suggestion based to help us in our research and study. Just like with Geography, I don’t believe it’s necessary that the Brethren will tell us things that don’t relate to our Salvation. I also believe that many intellects and historians suggest to the Brethren ideas and suggestions and when our Prophets and Apostles feel it is doctrine they will tell us.

Historians after much study will give the Brethren their best information they have researched, about geography, history, and translation, and that becomes the information the Church uses to help us. I just believe as Moroni said, “we may know the truth of all things.” Neither I nor these Historians know what doctrine for the Church is, that is up to our Prophet and apostles, so it is up to each of us individually to research and pray on our own for personal revelation that may benefit us in a personal way.

That is why I feel strongly that the translation was done using the “Interpreters” [two stones fastened to a breastplate] and the geography of the Book of Mormon began in North America. It’s a personal feeling or revelation to me. If the Brethren ever said otherwise, I will listen to and pray about what they say and receive, and follow doctrine based on faith and our Prophets leadership.

Pres. Nelson said, “You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.

I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson

In the Translation Essay mentioned above, Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf said, “The other instrument, which Joseph Smith discovered in the ground years before he retrieved the gold plates, was a small oval stone, or “seer stone.” As a young man during the 1820s, Joseph Smith, like others in his day, used a seer stone to look for lost objects and buried treasure. As Joseph grew to understand his prophetic calling, he learned that he could use this stone for the higher purpose of translating scripture.”

In red above is possible information from Church Historians who explain history and other things to the Brethren who ask, or ask to be informed. It could also be true, but I don’t believe it is doctrine. No where in scripture will you find the information in red above.

I believe Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim and by the power of the Lord translated the Book of Mormon. Even though I believe Joseph had a seer stone or two, I don’t believe he necessarily used that stone to translate the plates.

I love Elder Uchtdorf’s comparison with seer stones and cell phones, as that makes sense we can understand in today’s world. I know the Lord can use any object He desires to share revelation with Prophets. I believe what Elder Uchtdorf’s words are very important to study about the translation, that will have a great deal to do with my learning as I pray to know more. This comparison is good, as the righteous have been promised a seer stone eventually.

See D&C 130:10-11 here: “Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known; And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.”

Like I have said many times, if the Prophets and Apostles tell me it is doctrine that the main Book of Mormon events happened in Mesoamerica, or if they tell me that at one time Adam was an ape, or that only a seer stone was used to translate the Book of Mormon, or that Joseph Smith never looked at the plates but he just read the words off of a rock, or that Noah’s flood was not real, I would have a hard time believing it as it doesn’t make sense, but with much prayer and study I would follow the living Prophet Russell M. Nelson and the apostles who speak the truth to us. They also expect us to make good decisions and not have to be told all things.

See my blogs here: https://www.bofm.blog/7-first-hand-witnesses-of-the-interpreters/

Interpreters or Urim & Thummim = Spectacles fastened to a Breastplate

Spectacles fastened to a Breastplate

From the scriptures we learn that Joseph used the spectacles attached to the breastplate called Interpreters for the proper translation. “Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.” JSH1:75*

“Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” JSH 1:35

About SITH. (Stone in the Hat Theory) by Jonathan Neville

“Have you ever thought about how silly the seer stone in a hat really is? The idea that whole sentences appeared on the 3x4x5cm oval shaped opaque stone is totally wrong for many reasons.

The Book of Mormon didn’t have punctuation. It was added by the typesetter. Some say the average sentence length is about 25 words. That many words wouldn’t fit on a small object unless it was a size 1 font and that would be unreadable. It would also be very hard to read at the ends of the oval where it curves from the flatter part of the stone with the best chance for some kind of focal distance.

No special lighting was required to use the Urim and Thummim or Liahona (words would appear on spindle from time to time) or a modern-day teleprompter? Why would God provide an underpowered seer stone that couldn’t be read in normal lighting conditions?

The seer stone in a hat story is simply an attempt to discredit the truth and destroy Joseph Smith. Sadly, Intellectuals and scholars are trying to hijack church history.

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is breastplat22-1024x361.png
Art Left by Anne Marie Oborn

Joseph’s history in the PGP uses the term Urim and Thummim 6 times–never the seer stone. With your head buried in a hat, the focal distance would be too close, out of focus, and unreadable! It would also be hard for the scribe to hear your muffled voice buried in a hat.

I’m sick of Sunday School teachers saying the seer stone in a hat is like your cell phone screen. You can’t read it very well in broad daylight. That is because your phone is designed for long battery life. If your phone had enough power you could read the screen on a sunny day. Also, Joseph was inside a house with small windows and low lighting conditions. Why would he bury his face in a hat with even less light?

Can you imagine how uncomfortable that would be to be bent over a hat with your voice muffled? It would be hard for the scribe to hear and for Joseph to breath.

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is ut49-1024x898.png
Art by Anthony Sweat

Do you remember how Joseph described Moroni’s visit in the log home in 1823? He said the light around Moroni seemed brighter than farther away. Why would God give Joseph an underpowered teleprompter? Why put limits on God?

Why didn’t the Lord give the Brother of Jared a hat along with the 2 seer stones? Don’t be swayed by the foolish revisionist history and their bogus artwork depicting the FALSE seer stone in a hat translation method! Eber D. Howe tried to sell that false notion in Mormonism Unvailed [sic] in 1834. David Whitmer tried to perpetuate the lie it in his 1887 tirade, AN ADDRESS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST. David was a faithful witness for the Book of Mormon. However, he opposed Joseph on the Restoration of the Priesthood, Doctrine and Covenants, etc. and he started his own church. He is definitely not a creditable source for the translation method.

D&C 17:1 says the 3 Witness would be able to view the plates, breastplate, Urim and Thummim, Sword of Laban and the Liahona. No seer stone is mentioned.

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is breastp8.png
Hiram Page Seer Stone

Also remember that Hiram Page tried to lead the church astray with a seer stone in 1830 (D&C 28). Satan loves a counterfeit!

How many revelations were given in the Doctrine and Covenants via a seer stone? Zero. How many revelations were given via the Urim and Thummim? At least 8 sections (Sections 3, 6, 7, 11, 14, 15, 16, and 17).Why would God preserve the Urim and Thummim and records for about 4,000 years if a seer stone was used? Mormon and Moroni spent many years abridging all the records. That would be a huge waste if the plates were not even used as many scholars now claim. The seer stone in a hat doesn’t pass the common sense test! Follow the prophets, not the intellectuals and scholars.” Bruce Lloyd as told by “About Central America Jonathan Neville | 6/5/20 URL: https://wp.me/p741A5-Tm

I share a few comments about two books, “From Darkness Unto Light by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat and “Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones” by Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick. My comments will be in RED and the Historian Richard Bushman’s comments will remain in BLACK

Foreword by Richard Bushman about “From Darkness Unto Light” by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat

My comments in Red and Richard Bushman’s in Black

“This volume is the first of what could be many potential histories coming out of the Joseph Smith Papers Project. Michael Hubbard MacKay and Gerrit Dirkmaat have been editors of the Documents series, which is just beginning to appear. The results of this research can be partially found in the introductions, headnotes, and footnotes of The Joseph Smith Papers volumes, but the findings will be properly valued only when integrated into the narrative of early Church history. [I personally don’t think the idea of a stone in a hat adds value into Church history. It only moves the Church backwards in an old sectarian notion that began in the book “Mormonism Unvailed” in 1834, that said the stone in the hat was ever used for translation.] Only then will readers grasp what the new discoveries mean. [The old discoveries, not new discoveries, are the same old dogma that my mother used to tell me about saying, that Joseph never used an occultic seer stone to translate]. The two authors have done just that for Joseph Smith’s early years from the recovery of the plates in September 1827 through the publication of the Book of Mormon in March 1830. 

Books like this one will bring Latter-day Saint readers up to date on the results of the latest historical research. [These historians say the latest historical research are quotes from Martin Harris, David Whitmer, William McClelland, and Emma Smith, that say very late in the Church history, that a stone in a hat was used. I believe the first hand witnesses, Joseph Smith and Oliver, and the 8 passages of scripture that say the “Interpreters” (spectacles and breastplate attached) were the only instruments used]. While, like all histories, From Darkness unto Light is necessarily an interpretation, the authors base their story firmly on the original sources. [Yes, original sources from Martin and David and Emma who all never saw the spectacles and breastplate]. They get down to what historians consider to be the bedrock of historical construction. [Wow!] Working from original materials, the authors introduce readers to aspects of early Church history that are well known to historians but that are not necessarily common knowledge in the Church. [That’s precisely the point. Historians dig up things from the past and revisit them to bring up new ideas for which they can become peer reviewed and develop a pet theory that makes them look smart]. MacKay and Dirkmaat also reveal brand new findings in this work. They speak at length, for example, about Joseph Smith’s use of two seer stones in translation. In translating, Joseph probably first used the stones set in spectacles that came with the plates, and then, for most of the translation period, substituted one of the stones he had found. [Bushman says probably first used the spectacles and then substituted one of the stones he found. Based on what? I say the spectacles and breatplate together were used for the entire translation]. Joseph put the seer stone in a hat to exclude the light [Why did the Lord not make powerful enough seer stone light for Joseph?], and read off the translated text by looking in the stone. All the while, the plates lay wrapped in a cloth on the table. Apparently Joseph did not look at the plates through most of the translation. [Then explain to me why Nephi, Mormon and others were so diligent it writing on and securing the plates, if Joseph would later just ignore them totally? Silly]!

This description will startle Latter-day Saints who are familiar with artistic depictions showing Joseph Smith translating with a finger on the plates while he writes down the words as they come to him. [Picture left: I am familiar with pictures of Joseph’s finger on the plates following the words, but that is also incorrect. I ask a question here, where was the breastplate this entire time, and why would the Lord put a breastplate with the spectacles in the stone box with the plates, if they were never intended to be used later? I’ll show you how the breastplate was used in my article at the bottom, titled, Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation]. The image of Joseph with his face in the hat as he translates is not so well known and is much less decorous, [decorous meaning: Suitable to a character, or to the time, place, and occasion; marked with decorum; becoming; proper; seemly; befitting], which may shock some readers. [Yes the picture on the right shocks me, doesn’t it you?] But it is essential that the Church at large become aware of what historians have discovered in the sources. Failure to acknowledge these factual accounts, almost all of them in friendly sources, can devastate Latter-day Saints who run across them. Feeling that the Church has covered up the truth, they become disillusioned and even angry. This book is an attempt to repair the misconceptions so that the next generation of Latter-day Saints will be better informed. [As a non-historian and slightly educated man, I don’t believe the Church has ever covered up truth. I believe many revisionist historians in the Church have covered the truth to spread their theory of importance so their buddies will think the are smart as they are peer reviewed. Sad! I am not disillusioned as believe I have come up with the Lord’s help a possible scenario that explains your Historic covering up, titled, Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation]

For years Mormon scholars simply disregarded critical sources, such as the affidavits concerning the Smith family in E. D. Howe’s Mormonism Unvailed. [So E.D. Howe an anti-Mormon’s affidavits are now credible]? They felt the critical writings were too biased to be of any use. But in recent years, automatic exclusion of negative reports is no longer the practice. Everything has to be examined and evaluated. MacKay and Dirkmaat work on the principle that bias must be taken into account in analyzing any historical source. The art of the historian is to extract useful information from original sources whether negative or positive. [Who determines if it is negative or positive sources? Oh, the Historians, I see!] The notes of From Darkness unto Light show the authors ranging through sources all across the spectrum. The result is a much enriched and compelling narrative, [I call it non-compelling and made up history trying to tear down traditional sources of Joseph and Oliver] one that will hold up under critical scrutiny.” Richard Bushman Forward to From Darkness Unto Light by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat

Introduction From Darkness Unto Light by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat

Again my comments in RED and McKay & Dirkmaat in black

The actual process by which the Book of Mormon was translated, according to the witnesses of the event and the earliest sources, is generally unknown to members of the Church. [No it isn’t. Read JSH 1:34-35, 42, 62, and 75, Mosiah 28:13, 20 (History of the Church, 4:537). Ether 3:22-23, 4:5, Lucy Mack Smith and more]. Because Joseph Smith only explained [?Only?] that “through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God,” little emphasis has been placed upon the actual process of translation. Although the well-known “History of Joseph Smith” recounts Joseph Smith’s explanation of the device found with the plates as being composed of two stones, [Yes that is what Lucy Mack Smith says] most artists’ renderings depicting these events generally excluded images of the stones entirely, and no attempts were made to show the stones being used in the way witnesses described. [Why did they do this since the spectacles were found in the stone box and not a single peep stone]. These artists’ paintings powerfully conveyed an image to modern Latter-day Saints of Joseph Smith sitting at a table with the plates in front of him, his finger running over the top of the characters, with Oliver Cowdery dutifully seated across from him taking the dictation down. Thus generations of Mormons have come to imagine the translation process in much the same way reflected in these portrayals, a process by which the miracle of translation occurred by Joseph Smith looking at the plates and speaking a translation to Cowdery without the use of any external tools or the seer stones themselves, despite the testimonies of witnesses that the process occurred very differently. Those witnesses make the use of the stones the central aspect of the translation. They give an account of Joseph Smith placing various seer stones into a hat in order to block out the external light. Then God caused words to appear on the shining stones that translated the reformed Egyptian text into English. [Witnesses you speak of are David, Martin and Emma who never saw the spectacles nor the breastplate, but they all saw Joseph’s brown stone as he had it with him a lot. Don’t you think these so called witnesses just assumed that Joseph used that rock they so often saw him with? I do].

By Anthony Sweat

Those who are antagonistic toward the Church and Joseph Smith have used this discrepancy between witnesses of the translation and average members of the Church as a cudgel to beat upon the faith of believers. The very use of these witness statements by antagonistic or disrespectful authors or television programs to create a deprecating image of Joseph Smith has further alienated members from a proper understanding of the translation process. These detractors highlight the apparent ridiculousness of a scene that involves Joseph translating with his head buried in a “magic” hat, knowing that such imagery would offend the sensibilities of twenty-first-century Mormons. [Then why do you use that magic hat imagery if it is silly, and hard to believe? Why not believe what Oliver said, “Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’ Also the Interpreters are: “the spectacles and the breastplate attached” as Joseph said, “With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called ‘Urim and Thummim,’ which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God.” Times and Seasons, 1 March 1842,” p. 707, The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed February 13, 2021, https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/times-and-seasons-1-march-1842/5

Although the witnesses’ explanations of the translation process differ from what is generally understood by Church members, the testimonies of these witnesses affirm that the use of the seer stones—placed as they were in a hat to block out the light so the words of God could be read—was the greatest evidence to them of the miraculous nature of the translation. Detractors make light of the translation process. However, they do so without informing their readers that their very sources for such apparently disdainful evidence stated that because of the use of a seer stone in the translation process, they had a greater testimony of the seership of Joseph Smith. [Detractors make light of the translation, because of the use of a single seer stone. Readers think the Church is crazy because they know the spectacles and breastplate were in the stone box and so why not use them? You cannot find anywhere in the Scriptures where it says Joseph used a “seer stone”, “seers stone”, “stone”, or “peep stone”, NOT ONE!]

Minerva Teichert

One way we attempt to deal with the problem of the inaccurate portrayal of the translation process is by adding depictions of the translation to this book. These images [the ones below marked with the name Anthony Sweat] were created by Anthony Sweat, assistant professor of Church history and doctrine at Brigham Young University. In addition to skillfully crafted artwork of the events surrounding the translation that more closely align with the testimonies of scribes and witnesses, Sweat has performed detailed and informative research on how images of the translation have been used over time. The appendix of this book contains his exclusive essay, “By the Gift and Power of Art,” which will help readers understand where the more well-known images of the translation originated and how their less accurate depictions have come to dominate the LDS imagination when considering the translation of the gold plates. [There are currently only two pictures (shown above right and left) in all the work of art found in the Church that even comes close to the proper translation and in both pictures they show a breastplate. Why did Anthony Sweat leave out pictures of the breastplate being used?]

Our book attempts to capture the first-person [You mean the first-person Joseph Smith or Oliver Cowdery, or the first person you think is accurate?] point of view of Joseph Smith and those who witnessed the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon. Though we have taken into account the perspectives of detractors and nonbelievers in our analysis, [But have you taken the perspective of Rod Meldrum, Hannah Stoddard, and Rian Nelson, who are not detractors?] the purpose of our book is to understand the coming forth of the Book of Mormon as a miracle, which can best be understood through the accounts of those closest to the process and by those who believed. To Joseph Smith and his friends and family, the miraculous translation process was a reality. In other words, our approach asks the question “How would Joseph and his family explain to others the translation process?” [Joseph would explain the translation process by saying how he used the spectacles and breastplate that cam in the stone box and how he was also able to keep them hidden as he promised. See my article below titled, Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation]

Each of the chapters presented in our book offers new material, [What is new? The old idea of Joseph using a peep stone in a hat? That is revisionist, not new material]. both in sources and in interpretation. In a mostly narrative format, we examine the primary events in the coming forth of the Book of Mormon from September 1827 to September 1830—only occasionally pausing to note significant changes in the story. This book is intended to bring the reader closer to the most important events in this chronology of events through the eyes of those who experienced them. [So you quote the scripture by Oliver and Joseph, or do you use the second hand information from Emma, David and Martin?] Its scope does not include larger topics such as the influence of broader religious cultures, nor does it generally attempt to place the coming forth of the Book of Mormon within the context of national trends, politics, or Protestantism, except in those times when it is clear that those broader influences were cognizant to Joseph Smith and his colleagues. This does not mean that we do not contextualize and historicize each account to understand it better, but we do attempt to let those closest to Joseph Smith be heard in their own words, while acknowledging that they had their own biases reflected in their accounts and interpretations. [Yes Emma’s testimony was given very near her death and she did not have time to edit the comments that were used. David Whitmer’s comments were all after he had left the church and called Joseph a fallen Prophet. Not great references. What about when Oliver said, “I wrote with my own pen the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet as he translated it by the gift and power of God by means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by that book, holy interpreters. I beheld with my eyes and handled with my hands the gold plates from which it was translated. I also beheld the Interpreters. That book is true. … I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet.” When Cowdery returned to Church membership in 1848 he spoke to an Iowa conference. His words above were recorded by Reuben Miller]

In many ways, our book is an attempt to recapture the religious value of the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon in the minds of believing members. We are not making claims or an argument about the reality of the plates, nor are we making arguments about the historicity of the plates, which can be found in other publications. Instead, this book tries to get at the heart of what Joseph Smith and those closest to him believed about the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon[We are very happy to know you are not trying to say the plates never existed, only that Joseph never looked at them to translate. What exactly is the difference]?

Nevertheless, no work of history nor any examination of sources that speak of heavenly manifestations and the visitations of angels can demonstrate the reality of these miraculous events. Miracles are by definition events that cannot be replicated by mortal beings absent of the intervention of God. [I agree we all know the Book of Mormon is true by the Spirit and not by the translation method]. In this sense, logic and historical method cannot fully prove or disprove the miraculous claims made by Joseph Smith or the scribes who worked with him on the translation. Just as one cannot prove with historical sources or scientific inquiry alone the reality of Jesus Christ’s Resurrection or of the efficacy of his Atonement to save men and women from sin and death, faith and belief are the necessary ingredients for one to come to know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that he performed the work of a seer in bringing forth the words of the Book of Mormon from darkness unto light. [We do however have the word on an Apostle, Jeffrey R. Holland who said, “Truly rock-ribbed faith and uncompromised conviction comes with its most complete power when it engages our head as well as our heart… Two manifestations, two witnesses if you will—the force of fact as well as the force of feeling.” Jeffery R. Holland 2017. This shows me that Moroni’s promise that, I “may know the truth of all things”, is true. My head and heart, my spiritual witness and the physical witness of things both work together, just as the attached spectacles with the breastplate represent Joseph’s head and heart together to have the amazing ability to translate “by the gift and power of God”] What historians can demonstrate, however, is how the witnesses to these events explained them, how they understood them, and how they came to believe, as Wilford Woodruff did, that Joseph Smith had been called by God to translate gold plates and publish that translation as the Book of Mormon.” From Darkness Unto Light by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat (Items in red above are from Rian Nelson)

Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones / Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick.

Below are some note worthy quotes from Hubbard and Frederick. If you didn’t already know, most of these historians lean towards a a Mesoamerican theory of geography. The four paragraphs below however, let you see some of their thoughts about the Native Americans in North America and how influential these North American Indians were to the restoration and to Joseph Smith.

“Coupled with Christian interests, scholars like Samuel L. Mitchill of Columbia College examined Indian ruins in New York, claiming that Native American races had once met there in battle, resulting in the extermination of one race by another. Mitchill was well known enough to have reached public conscientiousness in Palmyra, having been mentioned in the Palmyra Freeman, and Martin Harris eventually visited him in February of 1828 to see if he could translate some of the characters on the gold plates.” Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones / Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick. BYU Religious Studies Center, 2016.

Despite Joseph’s own later reticence to ascribe supernatural forces to his treasure seeking, he did maintain a connection with the sacred nature of the land. The very land where Joseph found his seer stones held divine providence in the minds of Americans, and Joseph’s claim that the stones came from Native Americans harmonized with a greater public perception of an underlying sacred Native American mythos surrounding the lands in which they now lived.

Joseph bound together the ideas of sacred land, ancient Native American artifacts, and digging for money with seer stones. He believed that he plucked his seer stones from a blessed landscape where they had been buried by ancient inhabitants and under the direction of God. The idea of America as a sacred place was not foreign to Americans, who believed “manifest destiny” was exhibited through the ancient inhabitants, who were considered by many to be Israelites. To Joseph, these ideas were inseparable.

Even as the idea of peoples from ancient Israel currently living in America was challenged, ancient artifacts were being regularly uncovered, and scholars at the American Philosophical Society eagerly compared Native American writing to European, Egyptian, and even Hebrew.Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones/ Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick. BYU Religious Studies Center, 2016.

SEER STONES: ANCIENT ROOTS AND RELIGIOUS SIGNIFICANCE

MacKay and Frederick in BLACK, my words in RED

This connection between Native Americans and Joseph Smith’s religious endeavors extended to his brown and white seer stones. William Stafford claimed that someone might find a stone in brass kettles or certain kinds of pots buried in the mounds, insisting that seer stones were being recovered that had a Native American origin. These artifacts were very clearly man-made items, and if a seer stone was found within a kettle, then it must have had some value or purpose as evidenced by the belief that the hands of those who made the kettle must have placed the stone inside. Brigham Young likely had these Native American kettles in mind when he stated that “[Joseph] got [the seer stone] in an Iron kettle 15 feet under ground. “Apparently, the idea of Joseph Smith’s seer stones being anciently deposited by Native Americans became a natural assumption for some and suggested a similar origin for the Nephite interpreters. According to Joseph’s narrative, the Nephite interpreters originated with the ancient American inhabitants, [Brother of Jared See Ether chapters 3 and 4 below] as the ancient prophet Moroni supposedly placed them in the ground for Joseph to find. At least one of the other two seer stones also shows signs of being prepared anciently.

[It should have been obvious to these authors to add to this dialogue the FACT that Ether 3:24 speaks about this very thing. Why did the authors say, “as the ancient prophet Moroni supposedly placed them in the ground for Joseph to find. At least one of the other two seer stones also shows signs of being prepared anciently?” MacKay & Frederick]

[These authors MacKay and Frederick should have said for sure the place these two stones originated, if they would have accurately quoted Ether 3:23 below in orange. Then they would not have to say supposedly.]

“And behold, when ye shall come unto me, ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read.

And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write.

For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.

And when the Lord had said these words, he showed unto the brother of Jared all the inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be; and he withheld them not from his sight, even unto the ends of the earth.” Ether 3:22-25

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“Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.” Ether 4:5

Tying these strings together, Joseph Smith was highly influenced by the Second Great Awakening, marked by revivals and itinerant preachers, but he was also naturally affected by the Christian conceptualization of America. The patriotic sense of success was bound with the divine providence of the United States, an idea given weight by the belief that Native Americans were heirs of the biblical Israelites. Pulling ancient artifacts from the soil seemed only to support his religious longings and sense of calling, even if they were driven by local searches for buried treasure. Before the Book of Mormon provided the narrative, Joseph Smith’s brown and white stones were artifacts of an ancient past and an expression of his religious devotion in the nineteenth century. Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones/ Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick. BYU Religious Studies Center, 2016. [Probably true, but these brown and white stones had nothing to do with the translation.]

Witnesses Movie by The Interpreter uses Martin’s supposed story

Some of the earliest witnesses remembered his seer stones as Native American artifacts. Martin Harris, an associate of the Smiths prior to Joseph’s recovery of the gold plates in 1827, apparently experienced Joseph using a single seer stone to help him find a toothpick he had lost. [This story was used in the Witnesses movie just released by Daniel Peterson and The Interpreter Foundation. We are not sure if this second have information is correct]. He remembered, “Joseph had had this stone for some time [before 1827]. There was a company there in that neighborhood, who were digging for money supposed to have been hidden by the ancients.” Having known about his earlier seer stone retrieval, he was initially skeptical of Joseph when he first heard about his retrieval of the gold plates. Harris immediately thought “the money-diggers had probably dug up an old brass kettle, or something of the kind.” William Stafford also claimed that Smith searched for brass kettles filled with treasure, and Harris may have been referencing Smith’s retrieval of a kettle that could have had Joseph Smith’s seer stone inside. Even the retrieval of the gold plates suggested that items were being prepared for the restoration of the gospel by Native Americans. See MacKay and Dirkmaat, From Darkness unto Light, chs. 2–3; “Mormonism—No. II,” Tiffany’s Monthly 5 (August 1859): 167.

“Seer Stone v Urim & Thummim Book of Mormon Translation on Trial” Magic & Treasure Digging by James and Hannah Stoddard

Richard L. Bushman, progressive historian and author of Rough Stone Rolling, would later echo this argument, adding that Joseph was “involved in magic,” had “treasure-seeking greed,” and that magic was a “preparatory gospel” in training the young man as a prophet of God. However, Bushman argued that “all sorts of treasure seekers were also serious Christians,” so to him, it just wasn’t a big deal:

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It was no more scandalous than say gambling, playing poker today. A little bit discredited and slightly morally disreputable but not really evil. And when it was found that all sorts of treasure seekers were also serious Christians, why not the Smiths too? So, instead of being a puzzle or a contradiction, it was just one aspect of Smith family culture and not really anything to be worried about.

Contrary to Bushman’s claims, when Mormonism Unvailed was published in 1834, accusing the Smith family of involvement in magic, treasure digging, etc. the public was incensed! The First Presidency reported that Hurlbut’s claims “fired the minds of the people with much indignation” against Joseph Smith and the Church. No good Christian in Joseph Smith’s day heard Hurlbut and thought, “Those Smiths are kind of weird but no big deal.”

The accusations of magic and treasure digging Hurlbut & Howe conjured up carried grave implications for early 19th century Americans, and they published them with the specific intent of destroying Joseph Smith’s character. Just as his enemies had hoped, the publication resulted in increased and intense persecution. When “serious Christians” in Joseph Smith’s day—and this is true as well for serious Christians in our day—heard that Joseph Smith was “expert in the arts of necromancy” and that he had spent his boyhood “digging into the hills and mountains” searching for gold, the slanders destroyed his credibility and impeded interest in the ongoing work of the Restoration of the Gospel. Viewed as “blots” on the character of the young Prophet, most of the persecution leveled against the Church in 1834 was rooted firmly in these scandalous tales.”

Read my full blog about seer stones, who had them and where they found them on my website here: https://www.worksofjoseph.com/seer-stones/


Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation
[A short version of “Mother I have got the Key” a 26-page PDF in 2-pages], by Rian Nelson

The Prophet Joseph Smith stated, “On the west side of this hill not far from the top, under a stone of considerable size, lay the plates, deposited in a stone box.” “Having removed the earth, I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate…” Joseph Smith-History 1:51-52

1- The Key

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Plain lens spectacles

On the night of Sept 22, 1837, after Joseph returned from the Hill Cumorah (End of 4th year of Moroni’s instructions), Lucy Mack Smith said, “I trembled so much with fear lest all might be lost again by some small failure in keeping the commandments, that I was under the necessity of leaving the room to conceal my feelings. Joseph saw this and followed me. “Mother,” said he. “Do not be uneasy. All is right. See here,” said he, “I have got the key.”

I knew not what he meant, but took the article in my hands and, examining it with no covering but a silk handkerchief, found that it consisted of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows connected with each other in much the same way that old-fashioned spectacles are made. (See picture upper right). He took them again and left me but did not tell me anything of the record….

Diamond’s set in glass
as Lucy describes the spectacles

That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed nothing more nor less than a Urim and Thummim by which the angel manifested those things to him that were shown him in vision; by which also he could at any time ascertain the approach of danger, either to himself or the record, and for this cause he kept these things constantly about his person.” History of Joseph Smith, by Lucy Mack Smith

Joseph loved this “Key”, as through it he could see all things as prophets of old have as well. “After breakfast [on the day he received the plates and the Urim and Thummim] Joseph [Smith] called me into the other room and he set his foot on the bed and leaned his head on his hand and says… “it is ten times better than I expected.” Then he went on to tell the length and width and thickness of the plates, and said he, “they appear to be gold.” But he seemed to think more of the glasses or the Urim and Thummim than he did of the plates, for, says he, “I can see anything; they are marvelous.” Joseph Knight’s Recollection of Early Mormon History, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 1; spelling modernized

2- Breastplate
“After bringing home the plates, Joseph now commenced work with his father on the farm in order to be as near as possible the treasure that was committed to his care.

Front of Breastplate
Back of Breastplate with Pocket

Soon after this, he came in from work one afternoon, and after remaining a short time, he put on his greatcoat and left the house. I was engaged at the time in an upper room in preparing some oilcloths for painting. When he returned, he requested me to come downstairs. I told him that I could not leave my work just then, yet upon his urgent request, I finally concluded to go down and see what he wanted, upon which he handed me the breastplate spoken of in his history. It was wrapped in a thin muslin handkerchief, so thin that I could see the glistening metal and ascertain its proportions without any difficulty.

William Smith’s Description

With these quotes below, I am assuming William Smith saw the Urim and Thummim and maybe even the translation process. He gives an amazing description of the entire process. Of course we don’t know about the authenticity, but I am intrigued by William being quoted as saying, “[Joseph] always used it in connection with the breastplate when receiving official communications, and usually so when translating as it permitted him to have both hands free to hold the plates.”

The spectacles fit in a pocket on the back side of the breastplate next to the chest of Joseph Smith.

William Smith’s description: “A silver bow ran over one stone, under the other, around [sic] over that one and under the first in the shape of a horizontal figure 8[T]hey were much too large for Joseph and he could only see through one at a time using sometimes one and sometimes the other.” These stones, he continued, “were attached to the breastplate by a rod which was fastened at the outer shoulde[r] edge of the breastplate and to the edge of the silver bow.” (Tyrell Givens, By the Hand of Mormon, p.22)

Another account from William Smith: “Among other things we inquired minutely about the Urim and Thummim and the breastplate. We asked him what was meant by the expression “two rims of a bow,” which held the former. He said a double silver bow was twisted into the shape of the figure eight, and the two stones were placed literally between the two rims of a bow. At one end was attached a rod which was connected with the outer edge of the right shoulder of the breast-plate. By pressing the head a little forward, the rod held the Urim and Thummim before the eyes much like a pair of spectacles. A pocket was prepared in the breastplate on the left side, immediately over the heart. When not in use the Urim and Thummim was placed in this pocket, the rod being of just the right length to allow it to be so deposited. This instrument could, however, be detached from the breastplate and his brother said Joseph often wore it detached when away from home, but always used it in connection with the breastplate when receiving official communications, and usually so when translating as it permitted him to have both hands free to hold the plates.” (J. W. Peterson in The Rod of Iron I:3 (February 1924)

Article titled “Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation” continues, It was concave on one side and convex on the other and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders, and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips. They were just the width of two of my fingers (for I measured them), and they had holes in the end of them to be convenient in fastening. The whole plate was worth at least five hundred dollars. After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummim (Picture left).”  History of Joseph Smith, by Lucy Mack Smith

Alvin’s Box

3- Gold Plates
“I have myself seen and handled the golden plates;
they are about eight inches long, and six wide; some of them are sealed together and are not to be opened, and some of them are loose. They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate and are covered with letters beautifully engraved. I have seen and felt also the Urim and Thummim. They resemble two large bright diamonds set in a bow like a pair of spectacles. My son puts these over his eyes when he reads unknown languages, and they enable him to interpret them in English. I have likewise carried in my hands the sacred breastplate. It is composed of pure gold and is made to fit the breast very exactly.” Lucy Mack Smith (in Henry Caswall, The City of the Mormons; or, Three Days at Nauvoo, in 1842, 2nd ed. revised and enlarged, London: J. G. F. & J. Rivington, 1843

Interpreters (Breastplate + Spectacles)
Joseph’s “Key” is certainly not a seer stone. It is the spectacles acting as a key to unlock the breastplate for a connected view of revealing “by the Gift and Power of God.”

“And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write” Ether 3:23. We will call the Key with the Breastplate, “Interpreters” as Moroni first said, “I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord” Ether 4:5.

As you read the Book of Mormon there is only one word that describes what to call the breastplate with the two stones in the rims of a bow.” INTERPRETERS. Nowhere in the entire Book of Mormon will you hear the term Urim and Thummim or seer stone or single stone. It also mentions Interpreters once in the PGP in JSH 1:75* That means whenever we say the word “Interpreters” we mean the breastplate with the spectacles as one unit.

There are thousands of Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that believe the Interpreters are the instrument that Joseph Smith found with the gold plates buried in the hill of Cumorah. These Interpreters began their journey near hill Ramah in upstate New York as the Lord touched these two stones and asked the Brother of Jared to seal these stones up with the interpreters to come forth at a later date to be translated and as we know Joseph Smith was that person.

“Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed.”(Joseph Smith History 1:35,42)

The breastplate would have been worn under Joseph’s shirt and Joseph’s eyes would be looking through the glasses and seeing the gold plates on the table. The Large farmers hat would be placed as a shield or prop between Joseph and Emma with the hat blocking the eyes of Emma so she could not see the plates or the glasses. Joseph would hold the hat brim with one hand and have his other hand on top of the plates with his finger pointing at the text on the plates or to use his hand in turning the pages.

The spectacles or “key” would have been attached to the breastplate on the right side of Joseph with a downward slant so when Joseph bends over the spectacles, they would be directly over the gold plates. On the back of the breastplate is a pocket to store the glasses on Josephs left and over his heart. So, whenever we say the word “Interpreters” we mean the breastplate with the spectacles as one unit.

Prepared from the Beginning
“And now he translated them by the means of those two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow. Now these things were prepared from the beginning, and were handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages; And they have been kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord, that he should discover to every creature who should possess the land the iniquities and abominations of his people; And whosoever has these things is called seer, after the manner of old times.” Mosiah 28: 13-16

Conclusion

If an individual seer stone was used it would contradict all the scriptures, which we find that are the “true word of the Lord”, and that is what I rely upon when understanding the proper method of translation. This is the scripture that sums up the “Proper Translation” in my opinion. “He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants; Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” JSH 1:34-35.” Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation by Rian Nelson

As the quote from JSH 1:34-35 says, “and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim.” No stone in a hat is mentioned, and how could a single seer stone be called a Urim & Thummim? After reading this scripture it says the two stones in silver bows were fastened to a breastplate and called Urim & Thummim. I believe Joseph’s scriptural words.

1- Read a PDF of the 2-page article “Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation” here
2- Read over 16 scriptures and historical quotes here:
3- Read my 26-Page Free PDF here.

4- Purchase New 2022 Book “These Stones, Fastened to a Breastplate” by Rian Nelson Here

Two different paintings by Anne Marie Oborn

Anne Marie Oborn at her home in Bountiful Utah, just after painting this beautiful art called “Mother I have got the Key”

Read my full blog about seer stones, who had them and where they found them on my website here: https://www.worksofjoseph.com/seer-stones/

 
Contents of the Box (No Liahona nor Sword of Laban. They were in another part of the hill called the Cave at Cumorah
1-Gold Plates
2- Spectacles
3- Breastplate
Notice two Stones Crossways as Joseph said.

 

Archaeological Proof- Cumorah Battles in NY

Many Archaeologists and Historians in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are constantly saying, “There is no evidence on Hill Cumorah of swords, or bones or arrowheads found on the hill. We have to have proof”, they say.  Well, I will share with you here an abundance of evidence on and near the Hill Cumorah that will show there was a huge battle near Hill Cumorah. It is as well known in the Church as it is with non member archaeologists.

Mesoamericanists say the hill of Cumorah was “clean” meaning there is no proof of cooper and steel and arrowheads located there. That is just flat out wrong if you follow just a few of the evidences I have searched for and found. Ask the CES and BYU Professors where all those same tools and artifacts are located on some hill in Mexico that they have not even identified. These intelligent people are great believers in the spirit of the Book of Mormon just like I am, but they are “looking in the wrong place.”

The Church has purchased the ancient hill Cumorah in 1923, they haven’t purchase any Mesoamerican hill have they? Why do intellectual people ignore the information right in front of them?  Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said, 

“…This modernistic theory of necessity, in order to be consistent, must place the waters of Ripliancum and the Hill Cumorah some place within the restricted territory of Central America, notwithstanding the teachings of the Church to the contrary for upwards of 100 years. Because of this theory some members of the Church have become confused and greatly disturbed in their faith in the Book of Mormon. It is for this reason that evidence is here presented to show that it is not only possible that these places could be located as the Church has held during the past century, but that in very deed such is the case… It is known that the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites were destroyed is the hill where the Jaredites were also destroyed. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Ramah. It was approximately near to the waters of Ripliancum, which the Book of Ether says, “by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all…

It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains.”.” Doctrines of Salvation Joseph Fielding Smith Chapter 12

The Narrow neck of Land the Mesoamericanists mention above can’t be located in Mexico because the quote in Ether 10:20 says, the Narrow neck of Land will be “where the seas divides the land”, not where the land divides the sea, as it clearly shows with the land of Central America’s land dividing the seas. We believe the “real” Narrow Neck of Land is the Niagara Peninsula which is land that has been divided by the seas of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. IT JUST MAKES SEENSE. See map below:

Mesoamerican Neck

As you view the map below, you will see archaeological evidence of many forts, artifacts, bones, skeleton’s and weapons from the ancient NY area according to the NY Archaeological Society, and other historical books I share below.

See the line of red dots along the yellow dotted lines above? This is plausibly the Narrow Passage spoken of in the book of Mormon in Helaman 4:7 “And there they did fortify against the Lamanites, from the west sea, even unto the east; it being a day’s journey for a Nephite, on the line which they had fortified and stationed their armies to defend their north country.”

And the line of red dots just north of and parallel with the Narrow Passage is the line Bountiful and the land Desolation where is says in Alma 22:32. “And now, it was only the distance of a day and a half’s journey for a Nephite, on the line Bountiful and the land Desolation, from the east to the west sea; and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward.”

This is exactly what Governor Clinton DeWitt described in the quote below.

ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF LAKE ERIE, THERE IS A SERIES OF OLD FORTIFICATIONS, RUNNING FROM THE CATTARAUGUS CREEK TO THE PENNSYLVANIA LINE, A DISTANCE OF FIFTY MILES; some are two, three, and four miles apart, and some within half a mile. Some contain five acres… Still further south, there is said to be another chain of forts running parallel with the former, and about the same distance from them as those are from the lake… Whether the nations, which possessed our western country before the Iroquois, had erected those fortifications to protect them against their invaders, or whether they were made by anterior inhabitants, are mysteries which cannot be penetrated by human sagacity; nor can I pretend to decide whether the Eries or their predecessors raised the works of defense in their territory; but I am persuaded that enough has been said to demonstrate the existence of a vast population, settled in towns, defended by forts, cultivating agriculture, and more advanced in civilization than the nations which have inhabited the same countries since the European discovery.”  Clinton, De Witt. A Memoir On The Antiquities Of The Western Parts Of The State Of New-York

Here is a closer up map of that exact area in my map below.

Bone Heaps on the Genesee River

“My flats were cleared before I saw them; and it was the opinion of the oldest Indians that were at Genishau, at the time that I first went there, that all the flats on the Genesee river were improved before any of the Indian tribes ever saw them. I well remember that soon after I went to Little Beard’s Town, the banks of Fall-Brook were washed off, which left a large number of human bones uncovered. The Indians then said that those were not the bones of Indians, because they had never heard of any of their dead being buried there; but that they were the bones of a race of men who a great many moons before, cleared that land and lived on the flats” (Nephites, Jaredites).  A Narrative of the Life of Mrs. Mary Jemison Author: James E. Seaver 1823 Chapter VII page 61

“In the position of the skeletons, there was none of the signs of ordinary Indian burial; but evidences that the bodies were thrown in promiscuously, and at the same time. The conjecture might well be indulged that it had been the theatre of a sanguinary battle, terminating in favor of the assailants, and a general massacre, A thigh bone of unusual length, was preserved for a considerable period by a physician of Lockport, and excited much curiosity.” (Turner, p. 27) [Sanguinary means: Eager for bloody violence; bloodthirsty].

One Half Mile from Mormon Hill

“In 1922 “on the Rose farm, one half mile from Mormon Hill” a number of large skeletons, stone implements, copper ornaments, a copper axe of unusual type, and other articles were found. At this historic spot were found “many of unusual physique, talllong-limbed, finely formed skulls, teeth finely shaped.” (Fred Haughton, Seneca Nation, p. 48)

Previous Superior Native Cultures

“The battles are described as often having culminated in the destruction of previous, superior Native cultures which had taken final refuge in forts at the tops of hills, including the general region of the hill known to Mormons as Cumorah. In the town of Camillus, in the same county of Onondaga . . . there are two ancient forts . . . One is on a very high hill, and its area covers about three acres. . . . The ditch was deep and the eastern wall ten feet high. In the centre was a large lime stone of an irregular shape.” A Memoir on the Antiquities of the Western Parts of the State of New-York, Addressed to the Honourable Samuel L. Mitchill, a Vice-President of the Literary and Philosophical Society of New York . . . by Dewitt Clinton . . . Read Before the Society November 13th, 1817 De Witt Clinton (1769-1828)

War with a Light Skinned People

“Chief of Seminole Tribe: “We had a war long ago with a light skinned people around the Great Lakes. We conquered them but we had so much respect for their warrior chief that we buried him at the mouth of the Oswego River that is in New York State. We don’t discuss this very much because it is an embarrassment to us. President Rawson then asked why this is an embarrassment, and the Chief replied, “ Our history is written on metal plates and buried in a hill in New York, but we don’t know which hill!” (Talk given to missionaries in training at the MTC, Provo, Utah 1979, by President Murray J. Rawson).

Archaeological Evidence for the Ancient Hopewell and Adena Culture

The purpose of the information below is to share with you significant archaeological evidence for the ancient Hopewell and Adena Culture nearby the Hill Cumorah. There is evidence of fortifications, pottery, copper, weapons, palisades, forts, mass burials, mounds, tools and other artifacts all around this area. I believe the Hopewell culture matches up with the Nephite culture extraordinarily well. (See Map Above) The Hopewell originated in 600 BC at the panhandle of Florida from Crystal River to Pensacola, Florida. History documents this. The Hopewell then traveled north into Georgia and Tennessee. There is evidence of a huge society of the Hopewell from Missouri to Illinois to Indiana and then to Ohio which was the dominant historical area of this people. History shows the end of the Hopewell civilization around the year 400 AD. Historians say the Hopewell just disappeared and historians have no idea what happened. I feel I have a good idea. The final battle at Cumorah was 385 AD. This is some of the best evidence of a possible link to the Hopewell and the Nephites.


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Avocational Archaeologist

My friend who is a very loving Christian Preacher and an Avocational Archaeologist, who has lived in Ohio his entire life, jokes with me and says, “I know the people of Ohio as Hebrews and you know them as Nephites. We have found the same people.” Doesn’t it really make sense that there has to be traces of Hebrew where Lehi and Nephi lived? Search for yourself. Many signs show Hebrew influence in North America and especially in Ohio. It’s sad that many professionals say all the artifacts are a hoax. They have to say that for over 20 various items that have been discovered. See my blog here and here:

After reading the material from only these two sources, you will come away with amazing enthusiasm that ancient people lived in North America during the same time period as the Nephites and the Jaredites. Those that lived from about 1,500 BC to 200 BC were historically called the Adena culture. See my blog here.

To access my two main sources of this blog, visit the links below:

THE ARCHEOLOGICAL HISTORY OF NEW YORK BY ARTHUR C. PARKER, ARCHEOLOGIST

THE ARCHAEOLOGY OF NEW YORK BY WILLIAM RITCHIE


RESOURCE #1

THE ARCHEOLOGICAL HISTORY OF NEW YORK BY ARTHUR C. PARKER, ARCHEOLOGIST

New York State Museum JOHN M. CLARKE, Director

List of Sites Page 654 Ontario County, NY (Time Period 100 BC to 1700 AD)

1- Village and palisaded hilltop stronghold on Boughton hill 1 1/ 4 miles south of the village of Victor. This famous site is on the farms of M. E. McMahon, W. B. Moore and W. J. Greene. It occupies the top of Boughton hill and lies along the 800 feet contour line, which is 250 feet above the village of Victor. The hill points northward and is bounded on the eastern, western and northern sides by precipitous slopes that drop to the valleys of two brooks, both of which flow into the Mud creek. The westmost brook is known as White brook and takes its beginning in a spring on the side of a hill. This site is that of the Gandagora which was destroyed by DeNonville in 1687. It was visited by Greenhalgh in 1677 who said it resembled Onondaga. Before its destruction the Jesuits had established in this village, a mission which they called St Jacques, so that there are fairly adequate contemporaneous accounts of the village and its occupants. The site was excavated by Frederick Houghton for the Buffalo Society of Natural Sciences. His excavations are described in volume 10, number 2, of the bulletin of the society.

2- Fort and stronghold site known as Fort hill 11/2 miles west of Boughton hill in an air line. This corresponds with DeNonville’s account of the ” picket fort at the top of a little mountain, scarped on all sides.” Some fifty years ago traces of the earthwork or palisaded bases were to be seen, but this wall has now been destroyed by cultivation.

Fig. 84 Pottery vessel found in a grave on the site of Gandougarae, East Bloomfiel

3 Burial place I mile from Boughton hill on the John Bunce farm ‘his is directly south and on the east side of the Bloomfield road near the county line. This site was excavated by Frederick Houghton who found more than fifty pits containing human remains and many objects of European manufacture intermixed with articles of native lake.

4 Village site on the farms of Jesse and George Marsh, and a burial site on Ira DeLong and David Thompson’s farms. This site is near the northeast corner of East Bloomfield and on lot 13. It is about one-fourth of a mile east of Mud creek and on the eastern slope of brook running into it. Without doubt it is the site of the Jesuit mission of St Michel, which was occupied mostly by the captive Neuter and Huron converts after the destruction of their nations, in historical accounts the site is known as Gandougarae.

5 Burial place near this village on the farm of Ira DeLong, excavated by Frederick Houghton.

6 Burial place also connected with the Gandougarae site on le farm of George Marsh, which has been excavated by Heman Coates, Fred Hamlin, William L. Bryant and Frederick Houghton.  Mr. Houghton has described the site on page 42 of his monograph in the ” Seneca nation, from 1655 to 1687.”

7 Village and burial site on lot 35, East Bloomfield, on the Henry Fox farm. It is on the bank of Mud creek and most of the graves are found in the heavy red clay.

8 Village site on the Appleton farm on the eastern bank of Fish creek, at the forks of the road 2 miles northeast of Holcomb station. The village tract covers a considerable area of land and European objects have been found.

9 Village and burial site on the Beale farm, lot 7, East Bloomfield. This is on the south side of Cherry street one-half of a mile west of the road from Victor to Holcomb and just south of the Victor Township line. It is 1 1/ 2 miles south of Boughton hill and occupies an irregular knoll surrounded on three sides by small streams. Mr Houghton estimates the area as 15 acres. The usual material found on sites of the early historic period are present. Burials were located by Houghton on a knoll on the western edge of the village. They were- deep in the clay and sand and sometimes as many as six bodies were found in the burial pits. Houghton records thirty-four graves and describes the site on page 239 of the ” Seneca Bulletin.”

Sketch map of the Marsh site, East Bloomfield (after Follett) (Site 4} The Factory Hollow Site

10 Extensive village site on the Augusta Warren farm, lot 75, West Bloomfield, near the railroad station. The site occupies the rolling land along the eastern site of Honeoye creek. Between the site which lies on the hill some 50 feet above the creek and the stream itself are wide flats some 200 to 300 feet from the base of the hill. The site seems to have been occupied for an extended period and has two cemeteries. More than twenty entire pottery vessels were found in the burials, together with many articles of shell, bone, stone and wood.

11 Village and burial site at Factory Hollow on lot 64, West Bloomfield. The site occupies the abrupt terrace above the Honeoye outlet and above the eastern slope. The hill is very steep ; a village i burial site lay upon its top 100 feet above the valley. The burials were found along the western edge of the hill a little distance from the main village site. Here more than one hundred graves have been opened but very few objects of European occupation have been found except brass kettles. The village site proper occupied the wider portion of the hill at the southern end and all along the edge of the numerous refuse deposits that contained many bone implements, notched and serrated potsherds, and other discarded and broken material. Locally the place is known as the ” Shattock site ” and the hill as ” Fort hill.” The period is the beginning of European contact.

12 On his map of the Seneca country, Gen. J. S. Clark placed an Indian village almost in the center of the town of East Bloomfield. Mr Hildburgh reported a cemetery there.

13 Village site reported by Fred H. Hamlin on lot 16, East Bloomfield, on the Nead farm.

14 Village site on the Andrews farm at the north angle of the road northwest of Bristol.

15 Just southeast of this in the upper portion of the valley of Mud creek is a river site on the Sears farm.

16 Site on the Jackson farm in the northeast corner of Bristol township, just south of the Richmond Mills road and southwest of Bristol hill.

17 Village and hilltop stronghold on the George Reed farm near the western boundary of Richmond township and on the southeast side of the Hemlock lake outlet. This site is on a sand hill that lies between two small streams running into the outlet; on the north side is a high slate bank running down into the brook. A pathway down the upper slope of this bank leads to a fine spring which probably supplied water for the village. The opposite ravine is less deep but separates the tract of land from the gradual sloping hillside beyond. Throughout the site, especially the lower portion facing the valley, many pits have been found from which excavators have taken numerous objects of flint and bone. The hillside refuse deposit are especially rich, but no object of European origin has yet been discovered. The site seems in every way a precolonial Seneca village; the type of the potsherds discovered are similar to those found on the sites of the colonial period throughout the region. The State Museum has a collection of some one thousand specimens taken from the site by Alva H. Reed. For detailed description

18 Burial site on lot 25 on the John C. Briggs farm west of the site of Honeoye, in the town of Richmond. About twenty skeletons have been found in a gravel pit. A small village site is just to the northeast.

19 Burial site on lot 23 in Richmond, on the Blackner farm, reported by Albert Van Buren.

20 Honeoye, at the foot of Honeoye lake one-half of a mile east of the outlet and south of Mill creek, was burned in 1779 (Sullivan, p. 130). There were recent articles on Phelp’s flat near the old Indian castle at the foot of the lake (Turner, P. & G., p. 199, 203). Clark placed the village on his map west of the outlet, but there are two older sites there, one village and one cemetery.

21 A small cemetery was 3 miles south of Canandaigua, west of the lake.


22 Randall reported a small cemetery 3 miles west of Canandaigua on a flattened ridge.

23 A mile east of Canandaigua was an oval work on a hillside overlooking the lake, with one gateway and half the wall remaining. The turnpike road from Canandaigua to Geneva passed through it. An early cemetery also (Squier, p. 55, pi. 6, no. 2). This appears in figure 66. Schoolcraft placed it on Fort Hill a mile north of Canandaigua and 1000 feet around (Schoolcraft, Report, p. 109).

24 Mr Hildburgh located a village and cemetery on Arsenal hill one-half of a mile west of Canandaigua, lot 32.

25 Village or camp at the north end of the lake near the outlet and camps along that stream.

26 There was an early site on the east side of the lake a little south of this.

27 On the west shore, just south of Canandaigua, was another early site with caches. A small burial site (21) is nearby (Clark).

28 Graves have been found near the courthouse and a cemetery just west of the village.

29 Ossuary containing eighteen skeletons was found in the park at the outlet. Mrs F. F. Thompson has erected a marker to these ” unknown graves.”

30 Relics have been reported from Squaw island, at the foot of Canandaigua lake.

31 A grave of burned clay was opened on the east side of Canandaigua lake in July 1893. It was 4 miles south of Canandaigua and one-half of a mile east of Gage’s landing. ” Many early relics were found in the vicinity.”

32 Village site on Darwin McClure’s farm, lot 20, Hopewell, 3 miles southeast of Canandaigua, one-half of a mile north of the turnpike. A recent cemetery is not far away, and modern relics have been found. The site is probably that of one of the Onaghee villages.

33 Burial site on the Albert Rose farm I mile north of Machester. Several graves have been opened and relics believed by Mr Follett to be of ” mound-builder origin ” have been found. Mr Follett describes a native copper axe from this site and says it is of an unusual type.

34 A small village was west of Manchester Center, on the south bank of Canandaigua outlet, nearly 21/2 miles northwest of the village west of Clifton. Earthenware and articles of stone occur. It was probably a fishing camp.

35 A large fortified town was in the town of Phelps, on the south side of the bluff facing Canandaigua outlet. A wall has been described there. No recent articles have been found; all are of stone or clay. The .site is northwest of the village of Phelps.

36 Five miles northwest of Geneva, in Phelps, was a stockade on Fort hill. This was not far from a hill on which was an earthwork. It was a long parallelogram through which the road ran, on one side of which the post holes remained. There were caches and early relics (Squier, p. 87, 88, pi. 13, no. 2).

37 Large village site just northeast of Naples, and lying between Naples and Old creek. The occupation is Algonkian. No bone articles are found. D. D. Luther has collected a large number of implements from this and adjacent sites.

38 Burial site in Naples village. Iroquoian. Pipes have been found.

39 Small village site with burials on the west side of Honeoye lake on the California ranch. Four skeletons were exhumed here during highway excavations.

40 Earthwork 3 1/2 miles northwest of Geneva, east of the Castle road. It was 800 feet long and an early site on high ground (Squier, p. 55, pi. 7, no. 1). There are graves in the southern part.

41 Among the pine barrens on Mr Swift’s farm 3 miles north of Geneva is a small site, with early relics, reported by Dr W. G. Hinsdale.,

42 In Geneva, on the old DeZeng place, west of Main street, were many early relics and also camps near the south end of Main street on the south side of Glass Factory bay.

43 Kashong, on Kashong creek, 7 miles south of Geneva, was burned in 1779, but the recent site is hardly well defined. A recent cemetery was opened near the lake in 1889.

44 Village and burial site on Wilson creek, lot 32, Seneca.

45 A small cemetery was opened near Melvin hill in 1896. The heads of skeletons were to the west.

46 There is a scattered site with early relics on the farm of John Laws on the county line north of the Waterloo road.

47 George S. Conover reported a group of recent sites on Burrell creek, which are here placed under one number. The creek is very crooked and the lots are not in regular order.

48 There was an orchard and a small cemetery on lot 36, Seneca, east of the creek on the Rupert farm. Fireplaces have been found.

49 A mile east of this and south of the creek was a recent village and cemetery on the old Wheadon farm, on lot 12.

50 A recent cemetery without relics and with longitudinal burial was on the Rippey farm, lot 9, south of the creek.

51 A trail from the southeast came to the center of the old Brother farm on which there was a village. It followed the highway north- westerly.

52 Site west of Flint on Flint creek. Stone age material. Reported by H. C. Follett.

53 Canaenda was removed to lot 32 on Burrell creek where there, was a large cemetery mostly on N. A. Read’s farm about 25 rods southwest of the creek. On that farm and east of the creek was one of the principal sites of the town.

54 On lot 31, west of the creek, was another recent cemetery.

55 Lodge sites and a cemetery were on the Hazlet farm, lot west of Burrell creek.

56 Burial mound, recent, at Clifton Springs ; explored by J. Sanborn.

57 Early village site just south of Clifton Springs, nearly a mil south of the Canandaigua outlet. It occupied a little over 2 acres. Explorations by J. W. Sanborn in 1889 revealed fireplaces very numerous and close together. It seems to have been long inhabited and was of early date. There are fragments of decorated pottery fine celts and arrowheads. Articles of bone have been found, none of shell. Reported by Irving W. Coates.

58 Early village, reported by Mr Coates, is 1 l / 2 miles west of one at Clifton Springs. The relics are similar to those found the site above mentioned excepting that no bone articles have been found. It was a small village, but the few fireplaces are large and deep. The site is a mile south of the Canandaigua outlet one-fourth of a mile west of Fall brook.

59 Skeletons have been exhumed and relics found at Littleville, a hamlet on the creek south of Shortsville. Some of the latter indicate early visitors, and several trails converged at the ford there.

60 Three-fourths of a mile south of Chapinville, near the creek, was a workshop. Flint chips, unfinished weapons and fine stone articles were once frequent there. Some other reputed Indian sites which he had not personally examined, Mr Coates did not describe.

61 Small village site reported by J. H. V. Clarke.

62 Village of Kanadesaga, situated just west of the city of Geneva. This was one of the important Seneca towns burned by General Sullivan in the punitive raid of 1779. Squier, who visited the site in 1840, said that the palisade traces were distinct, due to the fact that the Indians in ceding the lands stipulated that this, their famous town site, should not be used for cultivated ground. Their plea was, ” Here sleep our fathers, and they can not rest well if they hear the plow of the white man above them.” When Sullivan destroyed the village it consisted of fifty houses with adjacent fields of corn and large orchards. The raiders destroyed the corn, hay and other stored food and cut down the orchards. In robbing the houses they found many trinkets, pelts and other things of value. Near the village was a mound in which the body of a giant Seneca was reputed by tradition to be buried. In the center of the village was a stockade built by Sir William Johnson. Morgan and Squier have written in an interesting manner concerning Ga-nunda-sa-ga and the records of Sullivan’s expedition give a contemporary description of it. The Rev. Samuel Kirkland spent some time here and had an interesting adventure. It was here that the great
Gaiyengwahtoh or Disappearing Smoke lived.

63 Village site and stockade site 2 miles southwest of Geneva.

64 Small village site a mile east of Littleville, and southwest of Manchester, on the southern portion of lot 25. Here have been found many beautiful specimens of chalcedony points. Mr Follett says that here in a lump of hard clay found 3 feet below the surface were found five ancient looking and crude chert points.

65 Camp site, evidently an extensive and permanent one, is situated just one-fourth of a mile north of

64. There is a fine spring here known as ” The Indian spring.” Relics of many sorts are found in the adjacent fields, but mostly on the Follett farm. There are places where the arrow and spear points are crude and primitive; other places where there is plain evidence of European contact, as Mr Follett points out in the instance of the finding of a copper spoon with a bullet hole through the bowl.

66 Village and camp sites at the head of Honeoye lake on the farm of Delevan Alger. Bolo stones or grooved weights have been found here, according to Mr Follett, who also reports several perforated disks of sandstone. Mr Dewey has two specimens of these from this site.

67 Village and camp sites on the east side of Honeoye lake, where hammer stones and notched points have been found.

This is the end of information about Ontario County, in THE ARCHEOLOGICAL HISTORY OF NEW YORK BY ARTHUR C. PARKER. There are hundreds of other pages of additional counties in New York as well. It’s amazing information.


RESOURCE #2

THE ARCHAEOLOGY OF NEW YORK STATE BY WILLIAM A. RITCHIE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 


Above: THE MOUND-BUILDERS BY HENRY CLYDE SHETRONE Director and Archeologist, The Ohio State Archaeological and Historical Society. COPYRIGHT; 1930, BY  D. APPLETON AND COMPANY 
https://archive.org/details/moundbuildersrec00shet/page/240

Ancient Burial Sites of New York

The following article is from JosephKnew.com

E-G-Squire Antiquities of New York
In earlier articles we have discussed the skillful and precise construction of great cities, large temple mounds and military defenses. The information in these articles has come from a variety of sources, including personal visits to the sites. Some of the best information on the ancient civilizations of North America has been provided by Ephraim George Squier (1821 – 1888). Along with his research and publishing partner Edwin Hamilton Davis (1811 – 1888), he unknowingly provided us with great insight into the lives, religions, cities and social networks of the people of the Book of Mormon.

In his book, Antiquities of the State of New York, Squier chronicles something much different than is found in his previous publications, Ancient Monuments of the Mississippi Valley and Aboriginal Monuments of the State of New York. Instead of descriptions of beautifully aligned cities, or carefully laid out military forts, he reports of works “constructed in haste for temporary purposes”. He details evidence of “indiscriminate massacres” and “bone-pits”.

Connections to the Book of Mormon
Joseph Knew Mormon Media Network Final Battle near Buffalo NYIn the Book of Mormon, in the 6th chapter of Mormon, the Nephites gather to the land Cumorah for the final battles with the Lamanites. If, as we have proposed in a previous article, the land Cumorah was in upstate New York near the Hill Cumorah, Rochester, and Buffalo, then the following passage from Squier’s chapter Ancient Work near Buffalo takes on significant meaning.

“Tradition fixes upon this spot as the scene of the final and most bloody conflict between the Iroquois and the ‘Gah-kwas’ or Erie — a tradition which has been supposed to derive some sanction from the number of fragments of decayed human bones which are scattered over the area.” (Antiquities of the State of New York, E. G. Squire, M. A., 1851, page 74)

Tens of Thousands Killed
“And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.” (Mormon 6:14)

The number of people slaughtered at Cumorah seems incomprehensible. Many non-believers cite these passages as evidence of Joseph Smith’s great imagination. Surely there would be evidence today of such large numbers of dead people. While excavating along the banks of the Erie Canal the following was recorded:

“In excavating the canal through the bank bordering the flats, perhaps thirty rods south of the fort, another burial-place was disclosed, evidently more ancient, for the bones crumbled to pieces almost immediately upon exposure to the air, and the deposits were far more numerous than in that near the river. The number of skeletons are represented to have been countless, and the dead had been buried in a sitting posture.” (Antiquities of the State of New York, E. G. Squier, M. A., 1851, page 144)

“One of these pits discovered some years ago, in the town of Cambria, Niagara County, was estimated to contain the bones of several thousand individuals.” (Ibid, page 99)

Squier uncovered evidence of savage warfare, which left “bone-heaps” and “bone-pits” throughout the Finger Lakes region of New York (Cumorahland).

“Besides the various earth-works, there are a number of other interesting objects of antiquarian interest in this county. Among them may be mentioned the ‘bone-pits’ or deposits of human bones. One is found near the village of Brownsville, on Black River. It is described as a pit, ten or twelve feet square, by perhaps four feet deep, in which are promiscuously heaped together a large number of human skeletons.” (Ibid, page 29 – italics in the original)

“Near the town of Fulton, on the west side of Oswego River, is an eminence called ‘Bone Hill’ in which have been found great numbers of human bones promiscuously heaped together. They are much decayed. Intermixed with them were discovered a number of flint arrow-heads.” (Ibid, page 31 – italics in the original)

In Genesee County the ruins of a large enclosure were discovered.

“It was called the ‘Bone Fort’ from the circumstance that the early settlers found within it a mound, six feet in height by thirty at the base, which was entirely made up of human bones slightly covered with earth. A few fragments of these bones, scattered over the surface, alone mark the site of the aboriginal sepulcher. The popular opinion concerning this accumulation is, that it contained the bones of the slain, thus heaped together after some severe battle.”

“There have also been discovered some heaps of small stones; which have been supposed to be the missiles of the ancient occupants of the hill, thus got together to be used in case of attack.” (Ibid, pages 66 and 69)

Joseph-Knew-Mormon-Media-Network-Ancient-burial-sites-in-

VIctor-New-York
The “bone-pits” found in New York differ in one important way from burial grounds in the Mississippi Valley. Unlike those in Mississippi, the Cumorahland pits and mounds appear to be created in great haste. A mound near Greene Township, NY, near the Chenango River was discovered and excavated.

“Great numbers of human bones were found ; and beneath them, at a greater depth, others were found which had evidently been burned. No conjecture could be formed of the number of bodies deposited here. The skeletons were found lying without order, and so much decayed as to crumble on exposure. At one point in the mound a large number, perhaps two hundred, arrowheads were discovered, collected in a heap. They were of the usual form, and of yellow or black flint.” (ibid, pages 47 and 48)

The End of Two Great Nations
The Book of Mormon tells of two great battles of genocide that took place in Cumorahland, the Jaredites and centuries later the Nephites. Could the two layers of burials described above be evidence of the end of these great civilizations?

In a previous article, we discussed the bones, arrowheads, and weapons that continue to be found in the Finger Lakes region of New York. There are many contemporary firsthand accounts of massive graves throughout the area known as Cumorahland. Students of the Book of Mormon looking for evidence of the great battles of the Jaredites and the Nephites can look in the Land of Many Waters in Upstate New York.

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We thank our friends at JosephKnew.com

Where are the bones and steel?
“In short, a bone is a living, self-maintaining, self-repairing organ—not an inert, cement-like substance that would tend to passively disintegrate with the passage of time. Bone is quite resistant to degradation but will eventually be broken down by physical breaking, decalcification, and dissolution. The rate at which bone is degraded, however, is highly dependent on its surrounding environment. When soil is present, its destruction is influenced by both abiotic (water, temperature, soil type, and pH) and biotic (fauna and flora) agents.” Ken Saladin, Textbook author, human anatomy and physiology.

How long for a sword to decompose: “It mostly depends on where it’s been stored. Wood, leather and iron materials don’t do well with moisture. If left in the rain or in a moist humid place, after a few months The sword will be completely worthless. Is long as it’s kept in a dry relatively clean location away from scavengers, years. Most iron swords are found under the dirt or mud where they fell during battle, and are completely useless by the time they are found. The metal would survive intact the longest, and if the location is wet it’s best for to be either underground or underwater completely. Trust is a byproduct of oxidation, and water speeds up the process. Underwater the oxygen available is limited to whatever is suspended in water, so counterintuitively it’s better to be at the bottom of the lake then laying in a puddle.” Greg Pavelka, Biomedical Technician


Bone Heaps on the Genesee River

“My flats were cleared before I saw them; and it was the opinion of the oldest Indians that were at Genishau, at the time that I first went there, that all the flats on the Genesee river were improved before any of the Indian tribes ever saw them. I well remember that soon after I went to Little Beard’s Town, the banks of Fall-Brook were washed off, which left a large number of human bones uncovered. The Indians then said that those were not the bones of Indians, because they had never heard of any of their dead being buried there; but that they were the bones of a race of men who a great many moons before, cleared that land and lived on the flats”.  A Narrative of the Life of Mrs. Mary Jemison Author: James E. Seaver 1823 Chapter VII page 61

“About three hundred acres of my land, when I first saw it, was open flats, lying on the Genesee River, which it is supposed was cleared by a race of inhabitants who preceded the first Indian settlements in this part of the country. The Indians are confident that many parts of this country were settled and for a number of years occupied by people of whom their fathers never had any tradition, as they never had seen them. Whence those people originated, and whither they went, I have never heard one of our oldest and wisest Indians pretend to guess. When I first came to Genishau, the bank of Fall Brook had just slid off and exposed a large number of human bones, which the Indians said were buried there long before their fathers ever saw the place; and that they did not know what kind of people they were. It however was and is believed by our people, that they were not Indians.” A Narrative of the Life of Mrs. Mary Jemison Author: James E. Seaver 1823 Chapter IX 

See Mary Jameson (Gardeau) on the Genesee River below.

More Information Here

To satisfy the critic who believes the archaeological record of Western New York is complete, with no anomalies, we offer the fact that large bones, i.e. GIANTS were discovered there, which leaves a gapping hole in the status quo:

Some skeletons, almost entire have been exhumed, many of giant size, not less than seven to eight feet in length. (O. Turner, Pioneer History of the Holland Purchase of Western New York, p. 35)

Human bones of gigantic proportions were discovered in such a state of preservation as to be accurately described and measured. The cavities of the skulls were large enough in their dimensions to receive the entire head of a man of modern times, and could be put on one’s head with as much ease as a hat or cap. (Harvery Rice, Pioneers of the Western Reserve, p. 303)

Erie County has yielded a vast store of ancient monuments, including many giant skeletons, spear points, war hatchets, and other weapons that seem too large for an average sized man to wield. Bones of giant size” have been uncovered. (C. H. Johnson, History of Erie County, p. 124)

In 1922 “on the Rose farm, one half mile from Mormon Hill” a number of large skeletons, stone implements, copper ornaments, a copper axe of unusual type, and other articles were found. At this historic spot were found “many of unusual physique, talllong-limbed, finely formed skulls, teeth finely shaped.” (Fred Haughton, Seneca Nation, p. 48)

Brine lists large skulls” among the skeletons he examined. (Lindsay Brine, American Indians, – Their Ancient Earthworks, p. 97)

In the position of the skeletons, there was none of the signs of ordinary Indian burial; but evidences that the bodies were thrown in promiscuously, and at the same time. The conjecture might well be indulged that it had been the theatre of a sanguinary battle, terminating in favor of the assailants, and a general massacre, A thigh bone of unusual length, was preserved for a considerable period by a physician of Lockport, and excited much curiosity. (Turner, p. 27)

Were there giants in the Book of Mormon, if so, where?

Jaredites in the Land Northward:

And the brother of Jared being a LARGE and mighty man…(Ether 1:34)

And they were LARGE and mighty men as to the strength of men. (Ether 15:26)

Zarahemlaites in the Land Southward:

And they came down again that they might pitch battle against the Nephites. And they were led by a man whose name was Coriantumr; and he was a descendant of Zarahemla; and he was a dissenter from among the Nephites; and he was a LARGE and a mighty man. (Helaman 1:15)

 

GOOD- Drag Shows Cancelled! EVIL- Our Children are not Safe!

Last month I did a blog here about the ridiculous “Family Friendly” drag show, that was held next door to BYU’s campus. One of our supporters at Firm Foundation named Defending Utah, was instrumental in spreading the word about this vulgar and “Non Family Friendly” event.

Good news happens when we as Christians and concerned citizens reach out and say “no” to these evils. Defending Utah today just announced the great article below to show these drag events have been cancelled in Utah, Idaho, Texas and many other places, as sponsors now understand how wrong they were. “A win for the good guys.”


The Scriptures are not Silent

“Homosexual behavior and other sexual perversions are an abomination—The land expels those nations that practice sexual abominations.” Leviticus 18 Title Statement LDS KJV Bible

And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, [Sacrificing children to the idol of Baal] neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.” Lev 18:12-23,29

There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.” Deut 23:17-18

“But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:” Deut 22:25-26

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affectiontrucebreakersfalse accusersincontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitorsheadyhighminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;” 2 Timothy 3: 3-5

‘Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?” Alma 39:5

Come to the Expo to see presentations about saving our Constitution and our children!

Speakers   Tickets


May We Save Our Children

May we all stop having a blind eye to pernicious, evil and pedophilia types of behavior. May we also be aware that there is more out there we should be aware of, in order to keep our children safe.

It is happening at our front door and many don’t know it. It took me just 10 minutes to find five or 6 six articles about sex abuse and evil and child sacrifice and witches right here in my home state. Glance through them. You don’t need to read them to be appalled, just be aware that evil is everywhere. I will then end on a good note. One where our friends at Defending Utah were instrumental in stopping these Gay Parties here in Utah and many mother states.

Please wake-up and do something. Write your Congressman or Senator, teach your children, volunteer at schools, get involved in the political discussion, don’t let our evil government win. Satan has control of them I believe. Biden is not a good man, neither is Mitt Romney. I judge people by their actions and words.

I just wrote Mitt Romney the following letter:

I have written you a few times before and you did respond to me which I appreciate. I’m just not sure you personally saw my emails.

I voted for you to be a support to our “Conservative Values” here in Utah. In my opinion you have not lived up to those values. Most times we hear about you Nationally, (which is more than locally) you are frequently against the Republican Majority.

You were quoted today by The Republic Brief who said, Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah), who voted last year to impeach Trump on the charge of inciting an insurrection on Jan. 6, said pardoning people who invaded the Capitol to stop Biden’s election would be wrong.” Republic Brief

Those citizens should not even be held. Can you name the crime they have committed? I want to speak to your heart. These many illegal prisoners have not even been charged with a crime on Jan 6th and they sit in prison over a year and a half? That is wrong and evil. Where are your values Brother Romney?

You act like you have been manipulated someway. It would be better for you to repent, than ignore any serious wrong you have committed. Don’t you see the errors of your staying silent to our citizens in prison? You certainly don’t represent our great State of Utah. I am embarrassed as our State feels so disappointed in you.

Thanks for listening, Rian Nelson

His response on Sept 13, 2022 at 1 pm was  the following:

Dear Mr. Nelson,

Thank you for contacting me to share your views and concerns, and thank you for your patience waiting for my response. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on issues affecting our nation and our state.

Serving and advocating for the people of Utah is my highest priority. I rely deeply on your perspective and experiences to help guide my approach as the United States Senate considers policy issues that affect all of us. As your senator, my commitment is to do what I believe is in the best interests of Utah and our country.

Thank you again for contacting me. Please reach out anytime about this or any other matter of concern. You may also be interested in visiting my website for news and legislative updates, or signing up to receive weekly e-newsletters and other important information.”

Sincerely, Mitt Romney United States Senator

My response just a few minutes later on Sept 13, 2022 is the following.

Dear Mr. Romney:

I just received your email response to me that took less than one day to reach me.

You said in that email, “thank you for your patience waiting for my response.” It took no patience on my part which is a key indicator to me you personally, Mr. Romney did not read my email. I know your busy, but some things can’t be faked. Whatever assistant you had write this response did not even respond to my concerns.

Your email also said, “I appreciate hearing your thoughts on issues affecting our nation and our state.” I know you appreciate me contacting you, but I don’t believe you really care, as my question was very direct and your people just ignored it.

Your email said, “Serving and advocating for the people of Utah is my highest priority. I rely deeply on your perspective and experiences” No sir Mr. Romney I don’t think you rely on my opinion at all. Your interns return mail like they don’t care either. Couldn’t you at least train your interns to try and address my issue, which is this:  Why do you allow citizens with no crimes charged against them for over a year now, sit in jail in Washington DC because of a political issue of Jan 6th? You are not a truthful person in not answering my question, and I am very tired of your typical democratic spin. Please send me a heartfelt response if you can.

Rian Nelson

Today is Sep 19, 2022 and i haven’t received a response yet. I hope Romney addresses this most serious issue. I had friends at the Jan 6th support rally in Washington DC and they weren’t there to riot, but to support our Republic. Now they are still in prison and being tortured. What happened to our Constitution? Biden and the leadership hate our Country that is all I could think at this point.

Here are the quickly found articles about evils in Utah.


Utah Ritualized Sexual Abuse Investigation: David Leavitt Under Investigation For Suspicion Of Human Trafficking

“As County Attorney David Leavitt loses his race, new reports implicate him in an ongoing federal investigation into human trafficking. What does this mean for the Utah County Sheriff’s inquiry into “ritualized sexual abuse”?

Thirty days after announcing an investigation into “ritualized child sexual abuse”, the Utah County Sheriff’s Office continues to receive tips concerning organized sex rings and allegations of ritualistic rape and murder.” Source

FIND COVENS, GROUPS & ORGANIZATIONS

A Networking Resource for Finding Covens, Pagans, Spiritual Groups or Like-Minded Individuals in Utah

ARE YOU A SEEKER LOOKING FOR A COVEN, GROUP, MEET UP? WITCHES AND PAGANS DO NOT PROSELYTIZE SO IT’S UP TO THE SEEKER TO SEARCH, CONTACT AND FIND TEACHERS. THIS IS JUST A RESOURCE FOR YOU TO REACH OUT.

We are happy to present this page for covens, groups and organizations in the locations listed below. This information on these pages is presented as submitted, we do not know many of the groups that are represented here and only remove groups if serious verifiable allegations are brought to our attention. We encourage you to please use your discretion when meeting strangers, and due diligence in researching the tradition and reputation of the leaders. We suggest you read this BLOG post prior to meeting possible teachers, as well as the DISCLAIMER page. Source

21 arrested in Utah sex trafficking operation. It’s ‘not even the tip of the iceberg,’ police say

“A recent operation headed up by the Utah County Sheriff’s Office to combat human sex trafficking resulted in 21 arrests and three women being rescued, according to the sheriff’s office.

But Sheriff’s Lt. Jason Randall, head of the investigations unit, said despite the success of the operation, it represented just a small fraction of the overall problem of sex trafficking in Utah and throughout the nation.” Source

Utah Ritualized Child Sexual Abuse Investigation: Is There A History Of Ritual Abuse In Utah?

by Derrick Broze
The Last American Vagabond

“In the nearly 4 weeks since the Utah County Sheriff’s Office announced an investigation into allegations of “ritualized child sexual abuse” in three Utah counties, they have received more than 120 tips in the form of phone calls, texts, and emails. UCSO Public Information Officer Sgt. Spencer Cannon told the Salt Lake Tribune that the office has “pulled in” sergeants with experience in sex assault cases to help review the information.” Source

Former Utah mayor, LDS bishop arrested after child sex abuse allegations

“Police say the man held a “position of trust” over the three alleged victims.

Rick Egan | The Salt Lake Tribune) The Davis County Justice Center and jail pictured on Monday, Jan. 3, 2022. Carl Johnson, a former mayor and LDS bishop, was arrested and booked into the Davis County jail on suspicion of seven counts of aggravated abuse of a child on Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2022.

Rick Egan | The Salt Lake Tribune)

“The Davis County Justice Center and jail pictured on Monday, Jan. 3, 2022. Carl Johnson, a former mayor and LDS bishop, was arrested and booked into the Davis County jail on suspicion of seven counts of aggravated abuse of a child on Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2022.

“A one-time Utah mayor and former bishop for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was arrested Wednesday after police say he sexually abused at least three children.

Carl Johnson, 77, was arrested in Orem and booked into the Davis County jail on suspicion of seven counts of aggravated abuse of a child.” Source

CLAIM: Ongoing Underground Military Operations, D.U.M.B.S. and Adrenochrome Facilities Dismantled

“Update: Unfortunately the links and videos used as source material here have been removed. The ideas contained therein are recorded below as text. While we can’t review the source material we can still contemplate the ideas herein presented and use them as tools to expand our understanding. If you have the original material please send me a link so I can post it here.

(Stillness in the Storm Editor) Rumors continue to circulate that alliance forces are taking down deep state child sex abuse facilities and tunnels.

The following post is a synopsis of these claims, which are unsupported and unverified by evidence. That doesn’t mean they’re untrue. It just means, at present we lack the information we need to confirm or deny them.” Source


Here is some Good News

“Family-Friendly” Drag Shows – CANCELLED!

To all of the parents, patriots, and protectors of children who showed up to protest “family-friendly” drag shows, well done! Particularly those who showed up in Provo, UT at the beginning of this month. Immediately after the videos and images of cross dressers showing too much skin and lewd dancing in front of children went viral, two shows in Idaho were cancelled.

Keep sharing the petition!
www.CleanUpBYU.org

It seems likely that Utah, with a predominantly Christian/LDS population, made enough noise to make Idaho, a similarly predominant Christian/LDS state, listen up.

The Boise Pride Festival has canceled its controversial “Drag Kids” performance, and at least five sponsors have withdrawn from the event, while other sponsors have publicly condemned the performance.

The festival organizers released a statement on Thursday announcing the “difficult decision” to “postpone” the performance involving minors “due to increased safety concerns.”

The Daily Wire previously reported that Zions Bank publicly withdrew its participation from the event on Wednesday, citing concerns over the drag performance involving children as young as 11. Since then, five additional sponsors have dropped out for the same reason, including Idaho Power, the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare (DHW), agribusiness company Simplot, Idaho Central Credit Union (ICCU), and CapEd Credit Union. Based on the sponsors’ levels and the pricing brochure, Zions Bank committed to an $18,000 sponsorship, Simplot pledged $6,000, Idaho Power committed $3,000, and CapEd Credit Union and ICCU both pledged $1,500. DHW had more than one Orange Level sponsorship and committed at least $18,000.

Soon after, the Southeastern-Idaho Pride drag show in Pocatello, Idaho was also cancelled. According to the marketing material, “The free event aims to bring the fun and inviting spirit of drag to those who aren’t typically able to attend shows in their traditional setting (bars, clubs, etc.).”

Their official statement says that they have cancelled their show due to “misinterpretation of marketing material”… If you’re also confused by this reason, a popular social media page that has been tracking “family-friendly” drag shows created a nice illustration of the point here.

Once again, GREAT JOB!

We have a responsibility to protect the innocent from exposure to lewd, sexual things like drag shows. Fortunately, this counter-movement has swept across the country as more LGBT groups try to push “all age” “family-friendly” “child drag” shows. Here are some examples:

Families fought back in Denton, Texas against an “all ages” drag show.

Jasper, Indiana calls off their “family-friendly performance” drag show.

A high school in Tuscon, Arizona was set to host a drag show earlier this year.  THMS employees behind the event were Zobella Vinik and Sunday Hamilton, both THMS counselors that also lead the LGBTQ+ student club, “Q Space,” in which students learn about LGBTQ+ history and are encouraged to explore their identities. Before the event could happen, however, the school counselor helping to organize the event was arrested for having a sexual relationship with a 15-year old student. Thankfully, the show never happened.

Keep up the good work. Keep protecting children. Keep holding twisted individuals accountable. Keep sharing the petition! www.CleanUpBYU.org

“Family-Friendly” Drag Shows – CANCELLED!

Hopewell/Nephite-Identical Nations

The Nephite Culture of the Book of Mormon from 600 BC to 400 AD, has so many amazing similarities to the Hopewell Culture in the United States during the same time period. Many archaeologists, scientists and historians who aren’t members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, know and believe the history of the Hopewell Culture and verify the dating which parallels the Book of Mormon. Below you will a fantastic article of a discussion between Archaeologist of Ohio William Mills in 1917 with James E. Talmadge.

I have shared information about these similarities you can watch on video here if you are a subscribing member. Currently we have over 800 fantastic videos you can choose from.

If you would like to subscribe to view videos online, you will receive a complimentary pass to our Oct 20-22 Expo in Salt lake this year. Visit HERE or click on the picture below.

The Hopewell & Nephites- Parallel Histories

“The Hopewell culture describes the common aspects of a segment of Native American culture that flourished along rivers in the northeastern and Midwestern United States from approximately 400 B.C. to 500 A.D., a time period that nearly matches the span of the developed Nephite societies. The Hopewell peoples were not a single culture or society, but a widely dispersed set of related populations as shown on the map on the left. They were connected by a common network of trade routes, in what is known as the “Hopewell exchange system.” The name ‘Hopewell’ was chosen by Warren K. Moorehead, known as the ‘Dean of American archaeology,’ after his explorations in 1891 and 1892 of a group of mounds in Ross County, Ohio.

He named the mounds after Mordecai Hopewell, the owner of the land. Subsequently all mounds that have similar identifications are named as the Hopewell Mound Builders within an interaction sphere.

Currently, the Hopewell interaction sphere has come to encompass regions from the Southeastern United States as far south as the Crystal River Indian Mounds in Florida up to the southeastern Canadian shores of Lake Ontario in the north. Within this geographic area, inter societal exchanges were common along major waterways. The Hopewell exchange system received materials from all over what is now the heartland of the United States. Many objects created by the Hopewell cultures have been excavated and show a remarkable degree of commonality to items described within the text from the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations. In 1848, Ephraim George Squier, A.M., and Edwin Hamilton Davis, M.D., published the book, Ancient Monuments of the Mississippi Valley: Comprising the Results of Extensive Original Surveys and Explorations.

The work was a landmark in American scientific research and was the genesis of archaeology as a scientific discipline. More importantly, the book was the first volume of the Smithsonian Institution’s Contributions to Knowledge series and the Institution’s first publication. Among Squier and Davis’ most important achievements was their systematic approach to analyzing and documenting the sites they surveyed, including Seip Mound, southwest of Chillicothe, Ohio (survey Plate XXI, No. 2 shown below on the left), which they discovered in 1846, and the mapping of the Mound City Group, also in Chillicothe, Ohio, which has been restored using their data and is now part of Hopewell Culture National Historical Park.

Squier and Davis collection of ancient Mound objects can now be seen at the British Museum in London, England. A few of their maps will be used in this edition as most of those mounds they identified have been destroyed by population growth that demanded land as the United States expanded westward. Their drawings are left to us to study of what was a highly educated, cultured and civilized society with roads, highways and cities rivaling the sizes of those in Europe.

Click to Enlarge

The Annotated Edition of the Book of Mormon highlights various excavated artifacts throughout the text that come from the “Mound Builder’s” earth or “dust” (Isaiah 29:4), like those found at Zelph’s Mound, providing physical or “circumstantial evidences” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Five [1842-43], 267) showing those mound builders shared common associations with the Nephite cultures.

Lehi’s party arrived in the Promised Land in roughly 590 B.C. as a small group. Within a few years, those who followed Nephi separated themselves from those who followed Laman and Lemuel. By 570 B.C. the two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites, were then living in separate geographical regions with different lifestyles. The Nephites settled in a small region maintaining their flocks, herds and crops while the followers of Laman lived as wanderers feeding off of wild animals, “becoming wicked and wild and ferocious, yea, even becoming Lamanites” (Helaman 3:16).

By 500 B.C., one hundred years after leaving Jerusalem, the populations were now well into the second and third generations and growing rapidly. In 279 B.C., king Mosiah leaves the land of their first inheritance, the land of Nephi, and finds the people of Zarahemla, who are more numerous than his group (Omni 1:17), and joins with them. After learning their language, he discovers that their history parallels their arriving in the land at about the same time period when both founding groups fled Jerusalem.

The geography of the City of Lehi to Cumorah makes sense in the North America map. The map on the right is a pretend area of the world that Mesoamericanists try and force to fit the geography in Central America. It just doesn’t make sense.

It is quite reasonable then, that by 200 to 100 B.C., the best dating of the beginning of the Hopewell societies, that the population within the Hopewell interaction spheres parallels the history and culture within the pages of the Book of Mormon (see Appendix, pp. 538-539, for a list of 50 correlations).

Moroni, the last Nephite prophet and historian to write on his metal plates, describes the destruction of his people in about 421 A.D. Remarkably, the culture of the Mound Builders suddenly collapses between 400-500 A.D. Those groups of “Mound Builders,” who exhibited similar characteristics of the Nephites, in the working in metals, in making fine jewelry and cloth, in implementing battle armaments such as head-plates, arm-shields, breastplates, etc., and engaging in similar military tactics of digging ditches around high banks of earth such as this recorded event: “Now behold, the Lamanites could not get into their forts of security by any other way save by the entrance because of the highness of the bank, which had been thrown up and the depth of the ditch, which had been dug round about, save it were by the entrance” (Alma 49:18), have all disappeared from history.

The early European settlers of North America observed Native American Indians as just savages, yet in a revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith to Parley P. Pratt, Oliver Cowdery and Ziba Peterson, in Manchester, NY, early October 1830 the Lord declared: “And now concerning My servant Parley P. Pratt, behold, I say unto him that as I live I will that he shall declare My gospel and learn of Me, and be meek and lowly of heart. And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall go with My servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites. And Ziba Peterson also shall go with them; and I Myself will go with them and be in their midst; and I am their advocate with the Father, and nothing shall prevail against them” (Doctrine and Covenants Section 32:1-3: emphasis added).

The Lord has declared where some of the surviving Lamanites were and are—and He will be a personal guide to the help His servants in teaching them their House of Israel heritage.” Annotated Book of Mormon by David Hocking and Rod Meldrum pages 536-537. Charts below are from page 538 and 539 of the same book. Purchase Here

Parallels of the Hopewell Culture as described by William C. Mills, Chief Archaeologist of Ohio, with the Book of Mormon [May 20, 1917; Sunday] by James E Talmage

“Attended Sunday School and afternoon service in Hawthorne Hall, and was a speaker at each assembly. Evening meetings here, as also in Brooklyn, have been discontinued for the summer. The attendance both at Sunday School and afternoon meeting was surprisingly large in view of the fact that many of the Utah college students have left for the vacation period. This evening at the hotel I had a long and profitable consultation with Professor Wm. C. Mills, State Archaeologist of Ohio. He is continuing his splendid work of exploration in the Ohio mounds, and I went over with him again the remarkable agreement between his deductions and the Book of Mormon story. He has reached the following (10) conclusions: The area now included within the political boundaries defining the State of Ohio was once inhabited by two distinct peoples, representing two cultures, a higher and a lower.

These two classes were contemporaries; in other words, the higher and the lower culture represented distinct phases of development existing at one time and in contiguous sections, and furnish in no sense an instance of evolution by which the lower culture was developed into the higher.

These two cultural types or distinct peoples were generally in a state of hostility one toward the other, the lower culture being more commonly the aggressor and the higher the defender.

During limited periods, however, the two types, classes, or cultures, lived in a state of neutrality, amounting in fact to friendly intercourse.

The numerous exhumations of human bones demonstrate that the people of the lower type, if not indeed both cultures, were very generally affected by syphilis, indicating a prevalent condition of lasciviousness.

Their (are) two peoples or cultures…the lower culture was most commonly the assailing party, while the people of the higher type defended as best they could but in general fled.

As a further consequence of this belligerent status they buried their dead, with or without previous cremation, in such condition as to admit of expeditious covering up of the cemeteries by the heaping of earth over the sepulchers [sic], in which hurried work the least skilled laborers and even children could be employed.

From a careful collating of data it is demonstrated that the general course of migration through the area now defined as the State of Ohio was inward from the west and outward toward the east.

Professor Mills states that no definite data as to the age of these peoples have as yet been found, but that the mounds may date back a few hundred years or even fifteen hundred or more.

Several years ago I placed a Book of Mormon in the hands of Professor Mills and, while he is reticent as to the parallelism of his discoveries and the Book of Mormon account, he is impressed by the agreement.”

James E. Talmage 20 May 1917 See copies below from William Mills 1914 publication called Archaeological Atlas of Ohio

William Mills 1914 publication called Archaeological Atlas of Ohio

Chart above courtesy of Wayne May Ancient American Magazine here William Mills 1914 publication called Archaeological Atlas of Ohio. Entire book here:


DOES THE GEOGRAPHY OF THE BOOK OF MORMON MATTER?

When Christ appeared to the Nephites as the resurrected Savior, He blessed them, He taught them He prayed with them and for them. He also quoted to them the words of Isaiah. He reminded them that they had been given THIS LAND for their inheritance and were warned that they would not be allowed to remain on THIS LAND if they did not remain faithful. This emphasis shows the significance of THIS LAND to the Book of Mormon people, and the people who would be brought by the hand of God to THIS LAND and now occupy THIS LAND.
  
With over 1400 references to “this land” in the Book of Mormon,
I’m not sure how the Book of Mormon prophets could have made it clearer. THIS LAND matters. Geography matters. Those of us on THIS LAND the “promised land,” the Land of Liberty, the Land of the New Jerusalem need to know who we are. America is THIS LAND. America is a covenant land. I live on THIS LAND. Even the chapter heading of 3 Nephi also confirms this truth. The geography of the Book of Mormon matters to me.” Rod Meldrum FIRM Foundation President

Hopewell and Nephites-Same Travel Pattern
Why Lehi Landed in Florida. (Apalachicola, FL Lehi’s City)
Laman and Lemuel Chased the Nephites North to Unicoi Gap, GA (Nephi’s Valley)
Mosiah Left the Land of Nephi by way of the Tennessee River To Zarahemla at
Montrose Iowa.
Mosiah meets the Mulekites in the Land Zarahemla bway of Mosiah’s River (Tennessee runs North)
The first mission to the Lamanites was in NY, OH, and MO, October 1830 (D&C 28,30, and 32). The first missionaries of the LDS Church in Mexico came in 1874. The first missionaries arrived in Guatemala in 1947. The Lord said, ” I myself will go with them and be in their midst.” D&C32;3

Find More Information

You can discover more information about the connection between the Hopewell, Nephites, and Jews in Ohio in the my book, Moroni’s America-Land Bountiful Edition seen below. This 60 Map Bountiful Edition is available in a great package below.

Heartland Map Package:
Moroni’s America-Maps Edition 150 Pages, AND Moroni’s America-Land Bountiful Edition 60 Maps. 210 Total Maps, PLUS receive the All-New 20″ x 30″ Folding Travel Map. Buy ALL THREE and Save 18% here.

Below is some information from the Bountiful Edition map book.

“There was a wall at the Great Circle at the Hopeton site. For those of you interested in dry archeological research, here is more about an interesting and recent discovery at the Hopeton Great Circle (adjacent to the Cedar Bank site near Chillicothe OH and also adjacent to the Chillicothe Ward building). Typically, I try to remain abreast with the research happening each year in Ohio and nearby. I spoke with an archaeologist last summer [2017] at the site, and learned of his confirmation of anomalies indicated by a an extensive magnetometry survey.

The other day in conversation, we discussed more details regarding the findings. It appears the Great Circle has evidences of a wooden fence, where the at least 6 ft height 1050 ft diameter earthen wall (enclosing 20 acres) was located. Indications are a pattern of very large posts spaced every 6 meters. This excavation last season revealed a post mold to be 96cm (about 38 inches) in diameter and 1.13 meters deep. One can estimate the height from that data. Indications are that smaller posts existed between the larger ones. The Hopeton site is significant in its location in relation to Cedar Bank, Sugarloaf, Mound City, and Dunlap Works and likely others. The current Chillicothe Ward building aligns with the Cedar Bank site (specifically the platform mound) and is within sight of Sugarloaf and in association with other major earthworks, including Hopeton.

I am pretty sure Church engineering had not considered the earthworks when the building was designed.” Anthony George Lifelong Resident of Chillicothe, Ohio and Archaeological Researcher as quoted in Moroni’s America Land Bountiful Edition by Rian Nelson and Jonathan Neville

Hebrew & Hopewell DNA
“A lady by the name of Lisa Mills did her doctoral thesis on the Hopewell. She sampled 49 Hopewell burials from Mound City in Chillicothe, Ohio. They were originally excavated by Shetrone in the mid-20th century. Of the 49 she extracted Mt/DNA from 64% of them. What is significant is she found Haplogroup X in several remains. Haplogroup X is a marker that originated in Galilee. This in my opinion strongly suggests contact by the Hebrews with Hopewell.  Richard D. Moats, Avocational Archaeologist, Archaeoastronomer

Click picture to purchase reports

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Joseph KNOWS- BofM in North America

Joseph knew and he knows that the Book of Mormon events began in the United States of America, in my strong opinion. The First Indian Mission, Joseph sent missionaries. Parley P. Pratt said, “Thus ended our first Indian Mission, in which we had preached the gospel in its fullness, and distributed the record of their forefathers among three tribes, viz: the Cattaraugus Indians, near Buffalo, N. Y., the Wyandots of Ohio, and the Delawares west of Missouri.” (Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City [1874], 41-44, posthumous.) (See D&C 28, 30, 32)

First Mission to the Lamanites D&C 28, 30, 32

 

Prophets Know and Knew

In my opinion those who believe the Book of Mormon began somewhere else, are only guessing and have developed “group think”, which means they have too much vested in research, opinion, and money, to ever deny what Elder Perry said, “The United States is the promised land foretold in the Book of Mormon—a place where divine guidance directed inspired men to create the conditions necessary for the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.” Elder L. Tom Perry Ensign Dec. 2012

I also believe what our Prophet President Monson said, “The Lord gave a divine promise to the ancient inhabitants of this favored country (the United States): ‘Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ. (Ether 2:12).

Our Heavenly Father inspired the leaders of…the United States of America, that they might together, under His direction, having been raised up by God for the purpose, establish the Constitution of this country and…Bill of Rights, that by the year of our Lord 1805 [there would be] a climate where our Heavenly Father could send into this period of mortality a choice spirit who would be known as Joseph Smith, Jr.” Teachings of Thomas S. Monson by Thomas S. Monson 2011 (Ordained an Apostle, 1963; ordained President of the Church, 2008)

Joseph Smith’s Historically Verifiable Written Statements

Native Americans with a proper greeting

“Nearly all those familiar with the early statements by the Prophet touching on potential Book of Mormon lands know that he clearly indicated them to be in North America. This is evident in the historically verified accounts wherein he declared revelation such as in the Wentworth Letter, the American Revivalist Account, the Zelph Accounts and Joseph’s handwritten letter to Emma while on Zion’s camp. In addition, the prophet revealed a Nephite altar at Adam-ondi-Ahman, mentioned the land of Manti was near Huntsville, Missouri, and revealed that this land was “the borders of the Lamanites” (see D&C 54:8). Furthermore he received revelation from the Lord for the location of Zarahemla (see D&C 125:3) and New Jerusalem (see D&C 84:1-6) which Christ Himself declared to be on Book of Mormon lands (3 Nephi 20:22), both of which are absolutely located in North America. These accounts and their indications are not speculation based, but historically documented.” By Rod Meldrum


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Faithful Question

Let me ask you a question. If you have a great great… grandfather (Let’s call him Bill), who lived during the time of Joseph Smith, and Bill personally knew and loved Joseph as a true prophet of God, wouldn’t that be exciting to explore the relationship of Bill and Joseph? Maybe some of you already have that relative. As you research and find out about the close relationship that Bill has with Joseph and the other Apostles, and Bill’s testimony of these men, wouldn’t you be so pleased to find out all you could know about their relationship? (I know a few of your relatives may have not liked Joseph, but we are not talking about those relatives).

What if you found out Bill was present with Wilford Woodruff in Nauvoo when he told Bill, as Wilford pointed out a spot to on the opposite side of the Mississippi River about a mile and a half above Montrose, IA, and said “there would be a city and a temple built there and the place would be called Zarahemla.” Would you believe Bill? Of course you would, as you had studied and found out Bill was a good active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and had prayed about it. What if it was Bill’s witness after Joseph had passed away, that he saw the countenance of Brigham Young as “it appeared that Joseph had returned and was speaking to the people?” Bill said, As Brigham Young commences speaking, hundreds in the audience believein every possible degree it is Joseph’s voice, and his person, in look, attitude, dress and appearance it is Joseph himself, personified.Oliver Huntington.

You want to and probably would believe Bill after prayer correct? Let’s say you prayed earnestly about that fact, and you received a personal witness that you indeed know that Bill believed Wilford Woodruff and Bill were present at the talk by Brigham Young and Bill knew that Brigham was to be the next Prophet. Is that even possible? Of course it is. I can hear the non-believers say, “I don’t believe Bill”, or “he was lying”, or “Joseph didn’t mean it was a Book of Mormon city”, or “I still believe Zarahemla was somewhere in Mesoamerica.” What is the difference between you believing Bill and others not believing him? Is it because you are related to Bill and you are biased. Or is it because you have prayed about it and studied it out and you thought it was very important to know, and you believed what Moroni told you and that you could “know the truth of all things?”

Why do many people in the Church today not want to believe Bill, or Edward Phillips, or D&C 125? Why is their heart so hard? Why is it that you believe so strongly in Bill and Joseph, and others in the church don’t? It’s probably because you want to believe, and you pray in faith to believe and others may only think of their bias that Zarahemla was in Mexico or some other place. You see, to believe it takes faith, study, and prayer. This is what I believe, that the Zarahemla of the Book of Mormon was indeed across the river near Montrose, Iowa. It is a part of my testimony and I don’t have a relative named Bill, but through faith I really believe this.

Now you know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has not spoken on whether the Zarahemla of D&C 125 means it was a city in the Book of Mormon, but some of the General Authorities and many members believe personally that Iowa is the place of the ancient Zarahemla. In other words knowing this is not church doctrine but it is true all the same. Is it that important you know the answer? Maybe. To me it is very important as I look for additional evidences of the Book of Mormon not just my witness of the spirit, but as Elder Holland said, “Truth borne by the Holy Spirit comes with, in effect, two manifestations, two witnesses if you will—the force of fact as well as the force of feeling. In the same talk Elder Holland said, “but not to seek for and not to acknowledge intellectual, documentable support for our belief when it is available is to needlessly limit an otherwise incomparably strong theological position and deny us a unique, persuasive vocabulary in the latter-day arena of religious investigation and sectarian debate.The Greatness of the Evidence By Elder Jeffrey R. Holland August 16, 2017

I believe the Book of Mormon Zarahemla is near Montrose, Iowa, just as I believe there is only one Hill Cumorah in upstate New York.

City Opposite of Nauvoo

Below is a revelation, not a statement, not an idea, not conjecture, a revelation. If the Lord planned the name Zarahemla as just another name and not one in the Book of Mormon, the Lord may have called it in D&C 125 the New Zarahemla, signifying a different location as in the city of the New Jerusalem.

Zelph of Zarahemla

D&C 125:3-4

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, March 1841, concerning the Saints in the territory of Iowa.” (Heading of D&C 125)

“Let them build up a city unto my name upon the land opposite the city of Nauvoo, and let the name of Zarahemla be named upon it.

And let all those who come from the east, and the west, and the north, and the south, that have desires to dwell therein, take up their inheritance in the same, as well as in the city of Nashville, or in the city of Nauvoo, and in all the stakes which I have appointed, saith the Lord.” D&C 125:3-4

Zarahemla According to Neville

“When Joseph Smith purchased the land for Nauvoo, he actually purchased far more land across the river in Iowa, as this map (left) from the Joseph Smith papers shows. If this area–designated in the 1800s as the “half-breed tract”–was the location of the ancient city of Zarahemla, the location could explain why the people were wealthy and why they had problems with pride, etc. (Of course, every human society has problems of pride, envy, etc.

However, Alma focuses particularly on this when he’s in the city of Zarahemla.) People ask if there is archaeological evidence for a city in this area. There is archaeological evidence of settlements along the river, north and south of this site, that date to Book of Mormon times, but nothing that can be identified as the city of Zarahemla, per se. The city of Zarahemla and its inhabitants were burned (3 Nephi 8:8). Later, the city was built again (4 Nephi 1:8) but the city is not mentioned afterward. It could have been destroyed again, of course. The river could have flooded the city, deposited sand over it, or any number of other possibilities.”

[The Heartland Research Group headed by Wayne May, John Lefgren PhD, and Kevin Price PhD, has been doing research near Nauvoo and Montrose, Iowa for several years now looking for evidence of Zarahemla. They have found evidence for ancient fires pits in the area and a possible location of a temple mound. See their website here: https://zarahemla.site/]

Neville continues, “For now, I note that it’s a location that seems to fit the text nicely. Another consideration is that D&C 125 hints at this site as the location of ancient Zarahemla. Another interesting aspect of Alma 5 is the mention of sheep, shepherds, and wolves. There must have been sheep in the city of Zarahemla. We’ve already stipulated that, because the Nephites “strictly” observed the Law of Moses, but Alma emphasizes the point is repeated here.

v. 37: ye that have professed to have known the ways of righteousness nevertheless have gone astray, as sheep having no shepherd, 
v. 38: ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd.
v. 39: And now if ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd, of what fold are ye?
v. 59: For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock? 
v. 60: if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed.

These metaphors would be ineffective if the people living in Zarahemla did not have sheep. In verse 59, Alma abandons the metaphorical use and speaks directly to actual shepherds. Some species of sheep that are indigenous to North America have survived to the present day, including the Bighorn and Dall. Anciently, their populations were in the millions. Although confined mainly to the western US, Canada, and northern Mexico. Wolves are indigenous to North America and were ubiquitous throughout North America before the Europeans arrived. They were part of Native American Indian legends and mythology. Their devastating impact on domesticated animals led to federal government programs to eradicate wolves from grazing areas. See this article.

Because Alma discussed wolves in this sense, I think it’s possible that whatever domesticated sheep the Nephites had–whether related to the other indigenous North American species or species Lehi brought with him–were killed off after the destruction of the Nephite society. The situation could be similar to that of horses, where recent research has shown the traditional explanation for horses–that the Spanish brought them all–is not consistent with the actual records. See excellent article on horses: https://byustudies.byu.edu/system/files/pdfs/54_3JohnsonHard.pdf.”

Source: 2016 Gospel Doctrine Resource by Jonathan Neville

Law of Moses

No Sheep, Goats, Bullocks, Rams, Doves, Wheat, or Barley in Mesoamerica during the time of the Nephites. They couldn’t practice the Law of Moses unless they lived in North America.

“If my insistent harping on central Asia annoys you, let me remind you again that the book of Ether gives us no choice. It never lets us forget that what the Jaredite kings did was a conscious imitation and unbroken continuation of the ways of “the ancients,” of “them of old” on the other side of the water. This, incidentally, is another indication that we are not to regard the Jaredite migration as taking place immediately after the flood, for the fall of the tower saw the destruction of an ancient and established order. The Jaredites left their homeland driving great herds of cattle before them in the immemorial Asiatic manner, and even if they had never been nomads before, they certainly lived the life of the steppes during those many years before they set sail (Ether 3:3), and when they embarked, they crammed all they could of their beasts into their small boats, “flocks and herds” and other beasts (Ether 6:4), and upon reaching the New World continued to cultivate “all manner of cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of sheep” just as their ancestors had in the old country (Ether 9:18). Now you know, how the Nephites could have had sheep in North America brought to this land by the Jaredites. The Nephites could continue practicing the Law of Moses in the land of The New Jerusalem.” (2 Nephi 25:24 Mosiah 2:3) Hugh Nibley from Lehi in the Desert; The Great Open Spaces

3 Essential Truths about Nephite Observance of the Law of Moses

By Kendra Burton

First Truth: Not only did the Nephites “strictly” keep the law of Moses (as indicated in 37 verses in the Book of Mormon (see Alma 30:3, Mosiah 13:29-30, Jarom 1:5), but they did so with delight as it was seen by them as both a collection of types of Christ and a means of coming unto Him. Occasionally even the Lamanites were known to “strictly” observe the law (Hel. 13:1).  Second: In “observing to keep the commandments of the Lord in all things, according to the Law of Moses” (2 Ne. 5:10), the Nephites would have necessarily observed all the feasts or “holy days” given to Moses by Jehovah. These are recorded in Exodus and Leviticus and are known as “holy convocations” or “rehearsals” and they typify the life and mission of Jesus Christ in profoundly beautiful ways. Third: It was absolutely essential for these Jewish Lehites to be brought to a land that would provide an abundance of all the plants and animals required to keep the Law of Moses, with its concomitant Holy Days or festivals. Based on the latest archeological findings, it can now be irrefutably shown that the Heartland of North America is the only location in the Western Hemisphere where all ten of the essential items were found anciently including; lambs, oxen, goats, doves, barley, wheat, grapes, and altars made of stacked, unhewn stones. These aforementioned items have not been found in the archaeological record of the pre-Columbian peoples of Mesoamerica.” Amberli Nelson MBA Hebrew/Jewish Symbology Expert

Edward Phillips- Saint and Witness of Zarahemla

“I was one of the forty-six preachers that Brother Woodruff speaks of in his “Leaves of My Journal.” The forty-six were baptized except one, that was Phillip Holdt. Brother Woodruff baptized me at Hill Farm where he baptized six hundred. He told me not long ago, that less had apostatized out of that lot than any other of the same number in the church.” Edward Phillips

“I was standing by the temple talking to Brother Woodruff and he pointed out a spot to me on the opposit[e] side of the river about a mile and a half above Montrose, and said there would be a city and a temple built there and the place would be called Zarahemla.Edward Phillips. More from his autobiography below.

Mesoamerican Theories of Zarahemla

Mesoamerica “Book of Mormon Lands” tour promoter Dr. John L. Lund, released a historically incorrect and misleading article in a newsletter and paid advertisement eblast (http://ldsliving.com/e/2012/db02_29_2012.html ) published Feb. 29, 2012. Lund’s piece, Joseph Smith Identified Zarahemla as Being in Guatemala, proclaims that an article appearing in the Times and Seasons on October 1, 1842 in Nauvoo, Illinois was emphatically “written by Joseph Smith.” Read more here:

In March 1841, a revelation known as Section 125, gave a name and location of a city. While the Lord had previously named Adam – ondi – Ahman and the New Jerusalem as being in the state of Missouri, perhaps this revelation has named yet another city in ancient America. The Lord said to Joseph: “Let them build up a city unto my name upon the land opposite the city of Nauvoo, and let the name of Zarahemla be named upon it”. We first learned of the name Zarahemla in the Book of Mormon. However, very early in Church History documents, the name Zarahemla was disassociated with the revelation. Writers of the history of this period began to attribute the naming of Zarahemla to other persons who were contemporary with the Prophet Joseph or even to the Prophet himself rather than to the Lord and they made it appear that the word Zarahemla was used pre-1841 when the Lord actually gave the revelation to Joseph. We have learned from historic and current Church History publications the following clarifications about the naming of Zarahemla:

1. Joseph Smith DID NOT use the word Zarahemla in 1839. (Joseph Smith Papers, Journals, vol. 1, p. 336)

Read more 5 more example here under the title “The Naming of Zarahemla”

Thus, we have learned, that any use of the name Zarahemla prior to March 1841 is not correct and was inserted in historical accounts after 1841. Surely, further investigation is warranted as to why the Lord used such a name in the revelation.

Again do you remember Bill? Read study and pray and you will know the truth.

Autobiography of Edward Phillips (1813-1896)

This sketch was written by Sylvia Phillips, then a fourteen year old granddaughter of Edward Phillips, as he dictated it to her in the year 1889. Italicized portions are apparently Phillips’ corrections/additions. Typescript in hands of family.

Edward Phillips, son of William and Mary Phillips, born in Oxenhall Parrish [Parish], Glouscestershire [Gloucestershire], England, April 2, 1813. He was christened April 3, 1813.

Edward Phillips

When [I was] six months old my father moved to Leigh, Worcestershire, Upper Sandlin, and there rented a farm of one hundred acres for three years. From there moved to Black House, Creadley, Herefordshire, and rented a farm of seventy-five acres for four years then returning to Upper Sandlin and rented that farm again for three years. From there he moved to Creadley and rented another farm. While working there he was taken sick and died at Longley Groen [Green], Suckley, Worcestershire, November 29, 1825, at the age of sixty-two. He married Mary Ann Pressdee in Worcestershire, being about ten years her senior. She was the mother of eleven children. From that time I employed myself farming and learning blacksmithing. I joined the society called the “United Brethern” whose president and leader was Thomas Kington. Everything worked well with us until within a year of the time Brother Wilford Woodruff arrived in our neighborhood. It seemed to me that we had come to a precipice and could not go any farther until Brother Wilford Woodruff placed a bridge over that precipice and we went on with glad hearts rejoicing. I went to hear him preach at Ridgeway Crossing on or about March 15, 1840. A day or two following I went to Hill’s Farm to hear him speak. When I started my good old mother said, “Edward, I should think you will not come back without being baptized.” I obeyed this council. I was the only male member of my father’s family who received the gospel. My sister Susan followed suite. I was one of the forty-six preachers that Brother Woodruff speaks of in his “Leaves of My Journal.” The forty-six were baptized except one, that was Phillip Holdt. Brother Woodruff baptized me at Hill Farm where he baptized six hundred. He told me not long ago, that less had apostatized out of that lot than any other of the same number in the church.

I[n] a few days after I was baptized, I was ordained a priest and put in charge of two branches, Ashfield and Crocutt, with George Brooks as my addistant [assistant]. This was near Sherrage, Leigh, Worcestershire. In the fall of that year, I was ordained an elder at the conference, under the hands of Brother Woodruff, and was sent to preach the gospel with Elder John Gaily to the Forest of Deane and Glouscestershire [Gloucestershire]. There I had the privilege of visiting my father’s family. We traveled and preached nearly a year and many were brout [brought] into the church under our administration. My mother embraced the gospel about this time under the hands of Brother Woodruff at a place called Moorings Cross, Maythen Parrish [Parish], Herfordshire [Herefordshire], 1841.

I left my home to emigrate to America. I went to Gloucester and in company with one hundred saints went to Bristol and boarded the “Carolina” for America. We set sail for Quebec, August 8th, 1841. We had a tedious voyage of eight weeks and three days, but landed safely. Thomas Richardson was our President. We set sail for Quebec, from Quebec we went to Montreal by steamer, and from Montreal through the lock to Kinston and then we sailed along Lake Ontario to Lewiston. We had a fine view of the city of Toronto. From Lewiston we boarded the train (which was drawn by mules) from Niagara Falls.

The next day we boarded the train for Buffalo and arrived at that place after dark. We put up at the Farmer’s Exchange for a week because of sickness. We then boarded the Chespeake [Chesapeake] for where now stands the great city of Chicago. We hired a man there to take us to Nauvoo with a team which contract he filled. We arrives [arrived] at Nauvoo in the latter part of October, 1841, on Saturday. On Sunday, I was anxious to see the Prophet. I attended meeting there and saw him for the first time. I did not need an introduction for I knew him the moment I saw him. He preached the gospel of salvation to us that morning which caused my heart to rejoice. Next day, Monday, I went to work in quarrying rock for the temple, (that was my first days work in America) near the upper Stone House on the Mississippi River. I continued to work on the temple and the Nauvoo House, most of the winter. I boarded with an old friend by the name of Jenkins, a shoemaker. There I fell in love with my present wife, who had preceeded [preceded] me a few weeks to America.

Zelph in Vision by Ken Corbett

On the 2nd of August of the next year, being one year from the time I left home, we were married by Heber C. Kimball near Camp Creek in Hancock County. She bore me fifteen children, nine of whom are still living, three of whom were born in Illinois, and the two first, a boy and a girl, died there. We were driven from their graves at the point of a bayonet, which was very grievous to us. I had some land and made me a nice home near where they were buried. I was working in the field near the house when the news came that the Prophet and his brother were killed at Carthage Jail. This made me shed bitter tears for I felt they were two good friends and I knew Joseph was a true prophet of God. He had said that he would go and die for the people. I was under arms in Nauvoo when he gave himself up to die for the people. He discharged us and told us to go home and he would go and die for us. We would gladly have gone and stood between him and death, but he would not let us. I was ready and willing to go. We were quartered at the tithing yard and slept in the Nauvoo Exposition Building. We went one day for foliage for our horses, and met Gen. Joseph Smith with his staff in the street. He cheered us and said, “Well done, boys.” We had been out inspecting the ground where we expected to meet our enemies. Word came to our Captain one night that the pickett guard was driven in and we were ordered out in the dead of night to go and meet the mob. I was determined to go and assist, so I borrowed a horse from a boy who did not like to go himself. Nevertheless this proved to be a false alarm and I went back disappointed. The prophet said he would go and die for us. He did and was butchered in cold blood. I was not there when he was killed, but I went later and took my wife with me to show her the well, curb, and the window where he jumped out when he was shot.

I have a Patriarchal blessing hanging in a frame in my room, which was pronounced upon my head by the prophet and patriarch, Hyrum Smith, in the fall of 1844[1843?], which is worth more than gold to me – Gold is no name for it. The predictions are being literally fulfilled every day. I know if I prove faithful it will all come to pass. I knew then and also know now that Joseph was a true prophet of God, and that the mantle of Joseph fell on Brigham Young who was his legal successor.

We all thought Joseph had come back to us!

I was present at the meeting when this took place (Read about that meeting below with the *) and heard with my own ears and saw with my own eyes. We all thought Joseph had come back to us although we knew he was in his grave. I was standing by the temple talking to Brother Woodruff and he pointed out a spot to me on the opposit[e] side of the river about a mile and a half above Montrose, and said there would be a city and a temple built there and the place would be called Zarahemla. I was at Nauvoo when the temple was finished and dedicated. I went up into the tower and wrote my name there. As I understand, the wicked have burned that temple to the ground and it is all destroyed like the Jerusalem temple. But I expect to see that temple re-erected and the one built on the opposite side of the river to match.” Edward Phillips Source Here and Here


Were there Facing Temples on the Mississippi?

Art By Val Chadwick Bagley

Great & Insatiable Heartlander

At our 30th Book of Mormon Evidence conference we have an outstanding lineup. This blog, I want you to get to know an amazing man. He has been a huge “Rod fan” since 2011 when he was in Deseret Book and found some very negative notes in Rod’s books trying to sabotage our friend Rod. Ridge took care of the problem as you will read below, and Rod and Ridge have been best of friends since. I don’t know of any single person who has given away more copies of Rod’s books than Ridge.

Seriously, counting books and brochures and testimonies etc he has touched the lives of well over 3,000 individuals praising the Heartland to all he meets all over the world. You have to hear him speak, Thur Oct 20 from 6 to 7 pm

Caution:
If you get into a conversation about the Heartland with Ridge, he talks “almost” as much as Rod. If you have a less active friend or family member, get Ridge on them quickly, and they will become converted after hearing Ridge. He is amazing!

Ridge HartleyEntrepreneur, Heartland Missionary, Patriot

Thurs Oct 20, 2022 6 Pm to 7 Pm Presentation:
“I Absolutely Love the Heartland”

Ridge grew up in Kaysville, Utah and graduated from Davis High in 1986. He is grateful to his amazing parents, Jerry and Patty Hartley, who helped him gain a powerful testimony of the Book of Mormon, the Prophet Joseph Smith, and the restoration of the Gospel.

The greatest Prophet, Joseph Smith has been a hero to him since he was a young boy. Mr. Hartley served a full-time mission to Raleigh North Carolina from 1987 to 1989. He graduated from Weber State in 1992. Mr. Hartley has enjoyed doing missionary work ever since his full-time mission.

Mr. Hartley has been in the financial planning and venture capital business for many years. He and his partner Pat enjoy raising capital for amazing companies.

He has three fabulous children who he enjoys spending quality time with. He was recently remarried in the Bountiful Temple to Niki, who is a great blessing in his life. His hobbies include, playing and watching sports, fishing, and hunting.

Mr. Hartley was very blessed to meet Rod Meldrum about 10 years ago. Ridge was at Desert Book and excited when he saw Rod’s book titled “Exploring the Book of Mormon in America’s Heartland.” He noticed an insert in the book that was telling people to not read this book and was a dishonest book, and that really upset Ridge. He called the phone number in the book and spoke to Rod to tell him what was happening. They eventually found the Salt Lake Attorney responsible, but Rod didn’t try and get back at him.

And Ridge, has thanked that attorney ever since, as his careless act has truly motivated Ridge to share Rod’s book with the world. Ridge is on fire with spreading the Heartland message and has given away at least 500 books or more since this time. Ridge also supports others who promote the Book of Mormon in the Heartland including Wayne May, Jonathan Neville, Val Bagley, Steve Smoot, and Rian Nelson. Mr. Hartley says sharing this additional information makes doing missionary work, more fun than he has ever had.

(L to R) Ridge Hartley, Elder Dale G. Renlund, Cynthia Tsai, Pat Hanley

Mr. Hartley was instrumental in working with a business acquaintance named Cynthia Tsai and with longtime friend of many of our current Apostles, Mr. Hal Jensen, who made it possible for the Prophet Russell M. Nelson to be invited to the 2018, 4th International Vatican Conference “Unite to Cure”. President Nelson was unable to attend since just becoming the Prophet, so he had Elder Dale G. Renlund attend and speak in his place. Elder Renlund had the opportunity to share his Gospel and medical message to millions of people all over the world. What a blessing. Ridge will speak more about that in his presentation at the FIRM Foundation.

(L to R) Hal Jensen, Monsignor Tomasz Trafny, Dr. Robin L. Smith, President Russell M. Nelson, Cynthia Ekberg Tsai, Pat Hanley, Ridge Hartley

In the picture to the right is Hal Jensen, Monsignor Tomasz Trafny who serves as head of the Science and Faith Department of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Culture, Robin L. Smith MD MBA, Pres Russell M. Nelson, Cynthia Ekberg Tsai, the CEO of Healthquest, a company known as a prominent global biotechnology and medical technologies advisory firm, and is adept in providing insights and seed funding to rising entrepreneurs, Pat Hanley, Ridges’ business partner, and Ridge Hartley. Information here: https://vaticanconference2018.com/

Ridge appreciates the Heartland group for bringing forth the correct information of what Joseph Smith and other prophets have taught about the United States being the Covenant Nation, where God brought the Jaredites, Nephites and Mulekites for their inheritance.

His deep belief is, that as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we can and should do so much more in sharing the Gospel message to the world. When we teach and share what the Prophet Joseph taught about the true Book of Mormon Geography, and proper method of translation called “Interpreters”, which included the breastplate and two stones in a silver bow, we can all better understand the spirit of truth received from reading that wonderful book.


You will love Ridge as we all do! Listen to this video he did with Rod


Lamanite Forefathers came from Jerusalem

Lamanite, A North American Indian

“I think it’s important to realize that the title page of the Book of Mormon says, “written to the Lamanites. That’s one of the very first things it says. I think Latter-day Saints today think well, the Book of Mormon is written for us. Well it was, written for the entire world, but of course Mormon, Moroni in their understanding of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, they fully realized that this book, this record, would eventually come forth to their descendants to the descendants of Lehi, and his family. And, this is clear to Joseph Smith. There’s no question in my mind that Joseph Smith knows from the very beginning this record needs to be received and given to and accepted by Lamanite descendants. And in 1830, to Joseph Smith and the Church members, a Lamanite meant to them, a North American Indian. There’s just no question.” Alexander L. Baugh BYU Church History Department; transcribed from the documentary “History of the Saints” Mission to the Lamanites Part 1.

“I would say to the Lamanites, if I could speak to them understandingly, that you are also a branch of the house of Israel, and chiefly of the house of Joseph, and your forefathers have fallen through the same examples of unbelief and sins, as have the Jews, and you, as their posterity, have wandered in sin and darkness for many generations; and you, like the Jews, have been driven and trampled under the foot of the Gentiles.” Wilford Woodruff History of His Life and Labors AS RECORDED IN HIS DAILY JOURNALS  PREPARED FOR PUBLICATION BY MATTHIAS F. COWLEY Salt Lake City, Utah 1909

“The Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western tribes of Indians; having been found through the ministration of an holy angel, and translated into our own language by the gift and power of God, after having been hid up in the earth for the last fourteen hundred years, containing the word of God which was delivered unto them. By it we learn that our western tribes of Indians are descendants from that Joseph who was sold into Egypt, and that the land of America is a promised land unto them, and unto it all the tribes of Israel will come, with as many of the Gentiles as shall comply with the requisitions of the new covenant.” TEACHINGS OF THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH Page 17:

“The Forefathers of these American Indians came from the
City of Jerusalem” Heber J Grant

“I rejoice in the work that is being accomplished both at home and abroad. I rejoice in the manifestations of the Spirit of God, that come to each and every one of our elders who faithfully perform the duties devolving upon them. I rejoice in the fact that God opens the way and prepares the hearts of the honest in every land and clime, wherever this Gospel of Jesus Christ has gone. It is also a source of joy and satisfaction to me that, in all my journeys at home and abroad, wherever I go, wherever I mingle with people, I am constantly receiving additional evidence and testimony regarding the divinity of this work in which we are engaged, As I journeyed away from home, and as I mingled with people, I would feel sorrowful if I had constantly been finding objections to the plan of life and salvation, that required exertion on my part to explain away. It would be a source of regret if I were constantly finding obstacles in the path, regarding the divinity of the work of God, which we have espoused. But, I have never found any such obstacles: I have never found anything that needed to be explained away: everything points to the divinity of the work.

“While listening to the remarks of Brother Ivins, referring to a book that was written by one of our enemies, in which the statement is made that there is not a particle of evidence to show that there is any trace of the Hebrew among the people who anciently inhabited this country, and that there is no evidence that would go to prove that the Book of Mormon is true. I was reminded of a little item of evidence that came under my observation while I was in the City of London. A gentleman there, to whom a very dear friend of mine, Col. Alex. G. Hawes, had given me a letter, kindly invited a number of newspaper men to his home to meet me. I am very sorry that the newspaper men declined the honor; but I had the privilege of meeting with this man and his family, and a few friends, and conversing with them. One of his friends had been a member of the British legation at Constantinople and had spent a considerable portion of his life there. He had traveled all over the holy land and was familiar with the people and their customs. Among other things, he said: “Mr. Grant, I was astonished beyond measure, when I visited Canada, to find there oriental patterns woven in beads, by the American Indians. They were the same patterns that were woven in rugs, in the oriental countries. I have traveled extensively, and I had never seen those oriental patterns in any part of the world except in the holy land, until I found them among the North American Indians. Those patterns have been handed down for hundreds of years, from generation to generation ; they are kept in families, and can be found nowhere else; and how under the heavens those Indians, who have no connection with the people of the holy land, should have the same patterns is a mystery to me.” “Well, mv friend,” I said, “if I were to inform you that the forefathers of these American Indians came from the city of Jerusalem, that would explain it, wouldn’t it?” He replied, “Well, of course, it would.” I asked him if he had ever read the Book of Mormon. He said, “No.” “Well, it will be my pleasure to send you a copy, and from it you will learn that the forefathers of the American Indians came from Jerusalem.” “Well,” he said, “that explains the mystery; I am much obliged for the book.” Now, the one thing for us to do, as Latter-day Saints, is to be loyal, to be true, to be patriotic, to be honest with God; then we need have no fear of what the world may say about us. We have the truth, and we know it, thank God; we know it, though the world may not know it. Let us follow the admonition of the Savior, and let our light so shine that other men seeing our good deeds shall glorify God.” ELDER HEBER J. GRANT 79th Annual Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints April 4th, 5th, and 6th, 1909, page 111-113


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THE AMERICAN INDIAN (UH-NISH-IK-NA-BA) by ELIJAH M. HAINES

From this book, THE AMERICAN INDIAN (UH-NISH-IK-NA-BA) by ELIJAH M. HAINES we will show the similarity in some of the Indian languages, to the Hebrew, and that the former must have been derived from the latter. I have edited just one chapter of over 833 pages which focuses on Chapter IV, Affinity with the Jews. This may be a lengthy blog, but it is amazing how much information you will receive about the similarities of our Book of Mormon Lamanites with the Tribe of Judah from Israel. You will also enjoy some of the old pictures which come from this amazing book.

You will also enjoy the online links to other wonderful books written long ago about the Native Americans of the United States. I know they are the honored brothers of Manasseh and it is our duty as Ephraim to bring us together again with the Book of Mormon. To Purchase the Annotated Book of Mormon Click Here!


THE AMERICAN INDIAN (UH-NISH-IK-NA-BA).
The Whole Subject Complete in One Volume Illustrated with Numerous Appropriate Engravings. By ELIJAH M. HAINES. CHICAGO: THE MAS-SIN-NA’-GAX COMPANY, 1888. Page 99-114

The subject of the American Indian has ever been one of peculiar interest to the ethnologist and student of history; but at no time since the discovery of America has it attracted so much attention as is being given to it at the present day. Volumes upon volumes have been written concerning it in its varied relations, but still it is not exhausted; and indeed the changing circumstances of the American race present at this day a phase of this subject, calling for its renewed presentation in more complete and comprehensive form.

Amidst the vast number of books published concerning this mysterious people since the discovery of America, there seems to be none now in print presenting their history in a succinct classified form, at the same time reaching out and taking in every phase of the Indian subject, to the satisfaction of the general reader.

This book has therefore been prepared with reference to this long felt want, and is such a work as the public mind and student of history now seem to demand. As the title indicates, it comprises ‘the whole Indian subject in complete and comprehensive form. In other words, it is a sort of cyclopaedia on the subject of the’ American Indian in all its phases and bearings as shown by the table of contents following; grouping together in condensed form, and within such limited space as the subject will admit of, the varied information comprised in that vast field of research in American history, not to be found in any single work of this kind heretofore published, containing many special features, which are highly interesting and valuable to the general reader.https://archive.org/stream/americanindianu01haingoog/americanindianu01haingoog_djvu.txt

Elijah M. Haines

Photograph (Left) of Elijah M. Haines, Illinois politician from Lake County and former Speaker of the Illinois House.

CHAPTER IV. AFFINITY WITH THE JEWS.

Opinion of James Adair-The Indians Descended from the People of Israel-He Assigns Twenty-three Arguments for this Opinion— Similarity Between the Languages — Comparison of Words and Sentences— Opinion of Be v. Jedidiah Morse— Similarity of Religious Customs— Dr. Boudinot Favors this Theory— Rev. Ethan Smith— Evidence in Favor of this Theory— The Indians Acknowledge but One Great Spirit like the Jews— Father Charlevoix Presents Evidence in Support of this Theory— Indians Were Never Known to Worship Images— Evidence of William Penn — Features of the Face like the Hebrews — And so with Dress t Trinkets and Ornaments— Their Fasts and Feasts, like the Jews— They Reckon by Moons and Count Time like the Hebrews— Have their Prophets— Abstain from Unclean Things — Salute the Dawn of Morning by Devotional Ceremony — In their Lodge Tales and Traditions Twelve Brothers are Spoken of— Custom in Mourning for the Dead, like the Jews— Have a Custom of Burnt Offerings— Had a Custom like the Jews of Anointing the Head— The Indian Medicine Lodge Corresponded to the Jewish Synagogue — Had a Secret Order Resembling that of the Jews— Their Medicine Man Corresponded to the “Wise Men,” Matthew II, 1 — The Bow and Arrow was Common to the Jews— The Indian Tent was like that of the Jews — Lived in Tribes like the Jews.

Many writers have given special attention to an inquiry into the subject of the American aborigines, with reference to discovering an affinity of this people with the Jews, or people of Israel.

Among the class of writers aforesaid is Mr.James Adair, who resided forty years among the American tribes, and who wrote a book (here) on the subject, which was published about the year 1775, in which he, without hesitation, declares that the American aborigines are descendants from the Israelites, and so complete is his conviction on this head, that he declares he finds a perfect and undisputable similitude in each. He says: “From the most accurate observations I could make, in the long time I traded among the Indians of America, I was forced to believe them lineally descended from the tribes of Israel.”

AFFINITY WITH THE JEWS. Page 99

Among the early authorities cited, to show that the American Indians are descendants from the Israelites, Mr. Adair seems to be the principal one, and since his time, all writers who have favored his views, refer with unreserved confidence to the evidence furnished by him to this end.

One of the earnest writers in support of this theory in later times, is Rev. Ethan Smith, of Poultney, Vt , as shown in his book entitled “ View of the Hebrew, or the Tribes of Israel in America,” published in 1825, wherein he undertakes to prove, citing Mr. Adair and others, that the American Indians are descendants from the Lost Tribes of Israel.

Mr. Smith sums up the arguments of Mr. Adair that the natives of this continent are of the ten tribes of Israel, to the following effect: 1. Their division into tribes. 2. Their worship of Jehovah. 3. Their notions of a theocracy. 4. Their belief in the administration of angels. 5. Their language and dialects. 6. Their manner of counting time. 7. Their prophets and high priests. 8. Their festivals, fasts and religious rites. 9. Their daily sacrifice. 10. Their ablutions and anointings. 11. Their laws of uncleanliness. 12. Their abstinence from unclean things. 13. Their marriage, divorces and punishments of adultery. 14. Their several punishments. 15. Their cities of refuge. 16. Their purifications and preparatory ceremonies. 17. Their ornaments. 18. Their manner of curing the sick. 19. Their burial of the dead. 20. Their mourning for the dead. 21. Their raising seed to a deceased brother. 22. Their change of names adapted to their circumstances and times. 23. Their own traditions; the account of English writers ; and the testimonies given by Spaniards and other writers of the primitive inhabitants of Mexico and Peru.

Many of those who contend for Jewish origin of the American Indian insist that evidence of this fact is found in the languages of the Indians, which appear clearly to have been derived from the Hebrew. This is the opinion expressed by Mr. Adair, in which Dr. Edwards having a good knowledge of some of the Indian languages, concurs and gives his reasons for believing this people to have been originally Hebrew.

The languages of the Indians and of the Hebrews, he remarks, are both found without prepositions, and are formed with prefixes and suffixes, a thing not common to other languages; and he says that not only the words, but the construction of phrases in both are essentially the same. The Indian pronoun, as well as other nouns, he remarks, are manifestly from the Hebrews. The Indian laconic, bold, and commanding figures of speech, Mr. Adair notes as exactly agreeing with the genius of the Hebrew language.

THE AMERICAN INDIAN

Relative to the Hebraism of their figure, Mr. Adair gives the following instance from an address of a captain to his warriors, on going to battle: “I know that your guns are burning in your hands; your tomahawks are thirsting to drink the blood of your enemies ; your trusty arrows are impatient to be upon the wing ; and lest delay should burn your hearts any longer, I give you the cool refreshing words: Join the holy ark; and away to cut off the devoted enemy”

A table of words and phrases is furnished by Dr. Boudinot, Adair and others, to show the similarity, in some of the Indian languages, to the Hebrew, and that the former must have been derived from the latter. The following is an example afforded from the sources quoted:

Photocopy from THE AMERICAN INDIAN (UH-NISH-IK-NA-BA). By ELIJAH M. HAINES.

Rev. Jedidiah Morse, in big tour among the Western Indians, says of the Indians language: “It is highly metaphorical; and in this and other respects they resemble the Hebrew.” ” This resemblance in their language” he adds, “and the similarity of many of their religious customs to those of the Hebrews, certainly give plausibility to the ingenious theory of Dr. Boudinot, exhibited in his interesting work, the Star in the West”

Dr. Boudinot speaks of some Indians at a place called Cohocks, who called the high mountain at the west Ararat He says that the Penobscot Indians called a high mountain by the same name ; that he himself attended an Indian religious dance, concerning which he remarks:

“They dance one round; and then a second, singing hal-hal-hal, till they finished the round. They then gave us a third round, striking up the words le-le-le. On the next round it was the words, lu-lu-lu, dancing with all their might During the fifth round was yah-yah-yah. Then all joined in a lively and joyful chorus, and sung halleluyah ; dwelling on each syllable with a very long breath, in a most pleasing manner.” And he says, “there could be no deception in all this. Their pronunciation was very gutteral and sonorous, but distinct and clear.”

Rev. Ethan Smith, in his book before mentioned, remarking on this circumstance, says: “How could it be possible that the wild native Americans, in different parts of the continent, should be found singing this phrase of praise to the Great First Cause, or to Jah —exclusively Hebrew, without having brought it down by tradition from ancient Israel ? The positive testimonies of such men as Boudinot and Adair are not to be dispensed with nor doubted. They testify what they have seen and heard. And I can conceive of no rational way to account for this Indian song, but that they brought it down from ancient Israel, their ancestors.”

Dr. Boudinot further says of the Indians: ” Their languages in their roots, idioms and particular construction, appear to have the whole genius of the Hebrew; and what is very remarkable have most of the peculiarities of that language, especially those in which it differs from most other languages.”

It is also insisted by many, as further evidence showing the Jewish origin of the American Indian, that they have had their imitation of the ark of the covenant in ancient Israel. Rev. Ethan Smith says, that different travelers, and from different regions, unite in this, and refers to the fact that Mr. Adair is full in his account of it. He describes it as a small square box, made convenient to carry on the back; that the Indians never set it on the ground, but on rocks in low ground where stones were not to be had, and on stones where they are to be found. Mr. Adair, in reference to this matter, says:

It is worthy of notice that they never place the ark on the ground, nor set it on the bare earth when they are carrying it against an enemy. On hilly ground, where stones are plenty, they place it on them. But in level land, upon short logs, always resting themselves (i. e. the carriers of the ark) on the same materials. They have also as strong a faith of the power and holiness of their ark as ever the Israelites retained of theirs. The Indian ark is deemed so sacred and dangerous to touch, either by their own sanctified warriors, or the spoiling enemy, that neither of them dare meddle with it on any account. It is not to be handled by any except the chieftain and his waiter, under penalty of incurring great evil; nor would the most inveterate enemy dare to touch it. The leader virtually acts the part of a priest of war, pro tempore, in imitation of the Israelites fighting under the divine military banner.”

It is said that among all the aboriginal tribes and nations of both North and South America, whatever may have been said by the Spaniards to the contrary, they acknowledged one, and only one God, and this again is taken by the advocates of the Jewish origin of the American Indians as further proof that this people are descendants of the Jews. Dr. Boudinot says of the Indians, that they were never known, whatever mercenary Spaniards may have written to the contrary, to pay the least adoration to images or dead persons, to celestial luminaries, to evil spirits, or to any created beings whatever ; in which Mr. Adair concurs, adding that none of the numerous tribes and nations, from Hudson Bay to them Mississippi, have ever been known to attempt the formation of any image of God. On this subject Rev. Ethan Smith says:

“Du Pratz was very intimate with the chief of those Indians called ‘ The Guardians of the Temple,’ near the Mississippi (Book Here). (He inquired of them the nature of their worship. The chief informed him that they worshipped the great and most perfect Spirit, and said: * He is so great and powerful, that in comparison with him all others are as nothing. He made all things that we see, and all things that we cannot see.’ The chief went on to speak of God as having made little spirits, called free servants, who always stand before the Great Spirit, ready to do his will. That ‘ the air is filled with spirits, some good, some bad, and that the bad have a chief who is more wicked than the rest.’ Here, it seems, is their traditional notion of good and bad angels, and of Beelzebub, the chief of the latter. This chief, being asked how God made man, replied that ‘ God kneaded some clay, made it into a little man, and, finding it was well formed, he blew on his work, and the man had life and grew up.’ Being asked of the creation of the woman, he said that ‘ their ancient speech made no mention of any difference, only that the man was made first Moses 9 account of the formation of the woman, it seems, had been lost 1 “

Charlevoix, speaking of the Indian traits and religious customs, and in reference to their resembling the Jews, says: ” The greatest Part of their Feasts, their Songs and their Dances, appear to me to have had their Rise from Religion, and still to preserve some Traces of it; but one must have good eyes, or rather a very lively imagination, to perceive in them all that some travelers have pretended to discover. I have met with some who could not help thinking that our savages were descended from the Jews, and found in everything some affinity between these barbarians and the people of God. There is, indeed, a resemblance in some things, as not to use knives in certain meals, and not to break the bones of the beast they ate at those times, and the separation of the women during the time of their usual infirmities. Some persons, they say, have heard them, or thought they heard them, pronounce the word Hallelujah in their songs. But who can believe that when they pierce their ears and noses they do it in pursuance of the law of circumcision ? On the other hand, don’t we know that the custom of circumcision is more ancient than the law that was given to Abraham and his posterity. The feast they made at the return of the hunters, and of which they must leave nothing, has also been taken for a kind of burnt offering, or for a remain of the passover of the Israelites ; and rather, they say, because when any one cannot compass his portion, he may get the assistance of his neighbors, as was practiced by the people of God, when a family was not sufficient to eat the whole Paschal Lamb.”

Rev. Ethan Smith, in his book before mentioned, refers to a letter from Mr. Calvin Cushman, missionary among the Choctaws, to a friend in Plainfield, Mass., in 1824, in which he says:

” By information received from Father Hoyt respecting the former traditions, rites and ceremonies of the Indians of this region, I think there is much reason to believe they are descendants of Abraham. They have had cities of refuge, feasts of first fruits, sacrifices of the firstlings of the flock, which had to be perfect, without blemish or deformity, a bone of which must not be broken. They were never known to worship images, nor to offer sacrifices to any God made with hands. They all have some idea and belief of the Great Spirit Their feasts, holy days, etc., were regulated by sevens, as to time, i. e., seven sleeps, seven moons, seven years, etc They had a kind of box containing some kind of substance which was considered sacred, and kept an entire secret from the common people. Said box was borne by a number of men who were considered pure or holy (if I mistake not, such a box was kept by the Cherokees). And whenever they went to war with another tribe they carried this box; and such was its purity in their view that nothing would justify its being rested on the ground. A clean rock or scaffold of timber only was considered sufficiently pure for a resting place for this sacred coffer. And such was the veneration of all of the tribes for it, that whenever the party retaining it was defeated and obliged to leave it on the field of battle, the conquerors would by no means touch it. “ The celebrated William Penn, who saw the Indians of the eastern shore of the continent before they had been affected by the ill-treatment of the white people, in a letter to a friend in England concerning this people, says:

I found them with like countenances with the Hebrew race; and their children of so lively a resemblance to them that a man would think himself in Duke’s place, or Barry street, in London, when he  sees them.” Here, without the least previous idea of those natives being Israelites, that shrewd man was struck with their perfect resemblance of them, and with other things which will be noted. He speaks of their dress and trinkets as notable like those of ancient Israel ; their earrings, nose jewels, bracelets on their arms and legs (such as they were), on their fingers, necklaces made of polished shells found in their rivers and on their coasts, bands, shells and feathers ornamenting the heads of females, and various strings of beads adorning several parts of the body.

Mr. Penn further adds that the worship of this people consists in two parts, sacrifices and cantos (songs). The first is with their first fruits, and the first buck they kill goes to the fire; and that all who go to this feast must take a piece of money, which is made of the bone of a fish. (” None shall appear before me empty.”) He speaks of the agreement of their rites with those of the Jews, and adds:

They reckon by moons; they offer their first ripe fruits; they have a kind of feast of tabernacles; they are said to lay their altars with twelve stones; they mourn a year; they have their separation of women; with many other things that do not now occur.” Here is a most artless testimony given by that notable man, drawn from his own observations and accounts given by him, while the thought of this people’s being actually Hebrew was probably most distant from his mind. William Penn visits the Indians

Mr. Adair says that the southern Indians have a tradition that their ancestors once had a sanctified rod, which budded in one night’s time, which is held by some to be a tradition of Aaron’s rod. Some tribes of Indians, it is said, had, among their numerous feasts, one which they called the hunter’s feast,answering, it is claimed by some, to the Pentecost in ancient Israel, and which is described as follows:

“They choose twelve men, who provide twelve deer. Each of the twelve men cuts a sapling ; with these they form a tent, covered with blankets. They then choose twelve stones for an altar of sacrifice. Some tribes, he observes, choose but ten men, ten poles, and ten stones. Here seems an evident allusion to the twelve tribes, and also to some idea of the ten separate tribes of Israel. Upon the stones of their altar they suffered no tool to pass. No tool might pass upon a certain altar in Israel.”

In their feasts of first ripe fruits, or green corn, the custom of the Indians is to eat none of their corn or first fruit till a part is given to God. In the Indian feasts they had their sacred songs and dances, singing Hallelujah, Tohewa, in syllables which compose the words, and it is asked what other nation besides the Hebrews and Indians ever attempted the worship of Jehovah.

Mr. Adair, in further support of his theory, says: “As the nation had its particular symbol, so each tribe has the badge from which it is denominated The sachem of each tribe is a necessary party in con- veyances and treaties, to which he affixes the mark of his tribe. If we go from nation to nation among them we shall not find one who doth not lineally distinguish himself by his respective family. The genealogical names which they assume are derived either from the names of those animals whereof the cherubim are said in revelation to be compounded, or from such creatures as are most familiar to them. They call some of their tribes by the names of cherubimical figures that were carried on four principal standards of Israel.”

The Indians count time after the manner of the Hebrews. They divide the year into spring, summer, autumn and winter. They number their years from any of those four periods, for they have no name for a year, and they subdivide these and count the year by lunar months, like the Israelites who counted by moons. They begin a year at the first appearance of the first new moon of the vernal equinox, according to the ecclesiastical year of Moses. Till the so-called captivity the Israelites had only numeral names for the solar and lunar months except Abib and Ethamin ; the former signifying a green ear of corn, and the latter robust or valiant, and by the first of these the Indians (as an explicative) term their Passover, which the trading people call the green corn dance.

In conformity to, or after the manner of the Jews, the Indians of America have their prophets, high priests and others of a religious order. As the Jews had a sanctum sanctorum (holy of holies), so in general have all the Indian nations. There they deposit their consecrated vessels, none of the laity daring to approach that sacred place. Indian tradition says that their fathers were possessed of an extraordinary divine spirit, by which they foretold future things and controlled the common course of nature ; and this power they transmitted to their offspring, provided they obeyed the sacred laws annexed pertaining thereto.

Mr. Adair, it must be remembered, in referring to words in the Indian languages, has reference to those tribes which at that day were living in the southern colonies, classed by ethnologists as the Appalachians, and who were the Choctaws, Chickasaws, Cherokees, Seminoles and Muscogees. In speaking with reference to these Indians he says, Ishtoallo is the name of their priestly order, and their pontifical office descends by inheritance to the eldest. There are some traces of agreement, though chiefly lost, in their pontifical dress. Before the Indian Archimagus officiates in making the supposed holy fire for the yearly atonement for sin, the Sagan (waiter of the high priest) clothed him with a white ephod, which is a waistcoat without sleeves. In resemblance of the Urim and Thummim, the American Archimagus wears a breast plate made of a white conch shell with two holes bored in the middle of it, through which he puts the ends of an otter skin strap and fastens a buck-horn white button to the outside of each, as if in imitation of fche precious stones of the Urim.


[More about Ishtoallo here:  SIMILARITY OF CUSTOMS OF THE ISRAELITES AND NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS. To the Editors of the Jewish Expositor. The Jewish Expositor, and Friend of Israel]

7. In conformity to or after the manner of the Jews, the Indian Americans have their prophets, high priests, and others of a religious order. As the Jews had a sanctum sanctorum, [Holy of Holies) so have all the Indian nations. There they deposit their consecrated vessels; none of the laity daring to approach that sacred place. The Indian tradition says, that their forefathers were possessed of an extraordinary divine spirit, by which they foretold things future, and controlled the common course of nature: and this they transmitted to their offspring, provided they obeyed the sacred laws annexed to it. Ishtoallo is the name of all their priestly order; and their pontifical office descends by inheritance to the eldest. T here are some traces of agreement, though chiefly lost, in their pontifical dress. Before the Indian Archimagus officiates in making the supposed holy fire for the yearly atonement of sin, the Sagan clothes him with a white ephod, which is a waistcoat without sleeves. In resemblance of the Urim and Thummim, the American Archimagus wears a breast-plate made of a white conch-shell, with two holes bored in the middle of it, through which he puts the ends of an otter-skin strap, and fastens a buck horn white button to the outside of each, as if in imitation of the precious stones of the Urim.”— Upon this statement (says Mr. Faber,) I may observe, that Ishtoallo may perhaps be a corruption of Ish-di-Eloah, a man of God, (see 2nd Kings iv. 21, 22, 25. 27. 40. et alibi,; and that Sagan is the very name by which the Hebrews called the deputy of the high priest, who supplied his office, and who performed the functions of it in the absence of the high priest, or when any accident had disabled him from officiating in person. (See Calmet’s Diet. vox Sagan.)

“It is generally thought that Elohim is derived from eloah, the latter being an expanded form of the Northwest Semitic noun ’il.[5] The related nouns eloah (אלוה) and el (אֵל) are used as proper names or as generics, in which case they are interchangeable with elohim.)” Wikipedia Quote Here K. van der Toorn, Bob Becking, Pieter Willem van der Horst (eds), Dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible (revised 2nd edition, Brill, 1999)


In this statement, Rev. Ethan Smith thinks Mr. Adair exhibits evidence of which he himself seems unconscious, saying that the general name of all their priestly order is Ishtoallo, and the name of the high priest waiter is Sagan. It is thought by some that the former word is a corruption of Ish-da-elvah, a man of God ; see 2 Kings, iv, 21, 22, 25, 27, 40, and other places. That the latter word Sagan is the very name by which the Hebrews called the deputy of the high priest, who supplied his office, and performed the functions of it in the absence of the high priest.

The ceremonies of the Indians, in their religious worship, says Mr. Adair, were more after the Mosaic institutions than of Pagan imitation; which could not be if a majority of the old nations were of heathenish descent They were utter strangers to all the gestures practiced by the Pagans in their religious rites.

Mr. Adair further speaks of the sacred adjuration of the Indians by the great and awful name of God; the question being asked, and the answer given, Yah, with a profound reverence in a bowing posture of body immediately before the invocation of To-he-wah; this he considers to be Hebrew, adjuring their witnesses to give true evidence.

Jle says it seems exactly to coincide with the conduct of the Hebrew witnesses even now on like occasions.

Mr. Adair, in likening the Indians to the Jews on account of their abstinence from unclean things, says that eagles of every kind are esteemed an unclean food, likewise ravens, crows, bats, buzzards, swallows and every species of owl. This he considers as precisely Hebrew, as also their purifications of their priests, and purification for having touched a dead body or any other unclean thing. He further says that before going to war, the Indians have many preparatory ceremonies of purification and fasting, like what is recorded of the Israelites.

Bev. Mr. Chapman, missionary of the United States Foreign Missionary Society, at the Union Mission, in a letter of March 24th, 1823, gives an account of some of the manners and customs of the Osage Indians, which would seem to have some bearing on the question under consideration. He went with a large company of these Indians, whose object was to form a treaty of peace with the Cherokees, to Fort Smith. The evening before they arrived on a hill, the chiefs announced that in the morning they must make their customary peace medicine (a religious ceremony previous to a treaty) for the purpose of cleansing their hearts and securing their sincerity of thinking and acting. Ten of the principal warriors, including the priest of the Atmosphere, (a name of one of their clans) were selected and sent beneath a ledge, to dream or learn whether any error had been committed thus far, or (as they express it) to “watch the back track.” In proceeding to describe their ceremonies, prayers, sacred painting, anointings, etc, Mr. Chapman says: “About two feet in advance, and in a line with our path, were three bunches of grass, which had been cut and piled about three feet apart, as an emblem of him whom they worshipped.

“Here the priest stood with his attendants, and prayed at great length. Having finished his prayer, he again ordered the march on foot. The Indians from the right and left entered the path with great regularity, and, on wheeling forward, every individual was compelled to step upon each bunch of the grass. The company proceeded about forty rods, then halted and formed as before. The priest now ordered his senior attendant to form a circle of grass about four feet in diameter, -and to fix a handsome pile in the centre. By this he made another long prayer. Then stepping on the circle, and followed in this by his attendants, they passed on.”

Mr. Chapman further says: “It is a universal practice of these Indians to salute the dawn every morning with their devotion.” This custom, it may be remarked, seems to be universal among all the American tribes. In regard to the ceremonies which Mr. Chapman describes, he adds: “Perhaps the curious may imagine that some faint allusion to the lost ten tribes of Israel may be discovered in the select number of dreamers (they being ten), to the Trinity in Unity in the bunches (and the circle) of grass, to the Jewish anointings and purifications in their repeated paintings, to the sacred rite of the sanctuary in their secret consultations, and to the prophetic office in the office of their dreamers.”

A religious custom is related by Maj. Long, which some think goes to prove that the Omaha Indians are of Israel. He relates that from the age of between five or ten years their little sons are obliged to ascend a hill fasting once or twice a week, during the months of March and April, to pray aloud to Wahconda. When this season of the year arrives, the mother informs the little son that the u ice is breaking up in the river, the ducks and geese are migrating, and it is time for you to prepare to go in clay.” The little worshipper then rubs himself over with whitish clay, and at sunrise sets off for the top of a hill, instructed by the mother what to say to the Master of Life.

From his elevated position he cried aloud to Wahconda, humming a melancholy tune, and calling on him to have pity on him and make him a great hunter, warrior, etc.

This, it is urged by some, has more the appearance of descending from Hebrew tradition than from any other nation in the earthy teaching their children to fast in clay as “in dust and ashes,” and to cry to Jah for pity and protection.

In part second of Mr. Schoolcraft’s general work on the Indian tribes of the United States, p. 135, is an article written by Mr. Wm. W. Warren, on the oral traditions respecting the history of the Ojibway nation. Mr. Warren, as Mr. Schoolcraft remarks, was a descendant, on his mother’s side, of one of the most respectable Indian families- at the ancient capital of this nation.

In this communication, Mr. Warren is inclined to the opinion, from the information derived from the manners and customs of the Ojibways, that the red race of America are descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, and he asserts that this is the belief of some eminent men and writers, and mentions this belief to say that he has noted much in the course of his inquiries that would induce him to fall into the same belief, besides the general reasons that are adduced to prove the fact Referring to the Ojibways, he says:

“I have noticed that in all their principal and oldest traditions and lodge tales, twelve brothers are spoken of that are the sons of Getube, a name nearly similar to Jacob. The oldest of these brothers

is called Mudjekeewis, and the youngest Wa-jeeg-e-wa-kon-ay, the name for his coat of fishers 9 skins, with which he resisted the machinations of evil spirits. He was the beloved of his father and the Great Spirit; the wisest and most powerful of his twelve brothers.”

The tradition in which also originated Ke-na-big-wusk, or snake-root, which forms one of the four main branches of the Me-da-win, is similar in character to the brazen serpent of Moses that saved the lives of the afflicted Israelites. In the Indian tradition, the serpent is made to show to man a root which saved the lives of the people of a great town, which was being depopulated by pestilence. Not only in these instances is the similitude of the Ojibway oral traditions and the written history of the Hebrews evident and most striking, but in part first of Mr. Schoolcraft’s work aforesaid, page 259, is some information by Mr. Thomas Fitzpatrick, a government agent of the higher Platte and Arkansas. In this, reference is made to the fact of a resemblance in the manners, customs and habits of the Indians with that of the Jews or Israelites, in which he says: “In regard to the manners, customs, habits, etc., of the wild tribes of the western territory, a true and more correct type than any I have ever seen may be found in the ancient history of the Jews or Israelites after their liberation from Egyptian bondage. The medicine lodge of the Indian may be compared to the place of worship or tabernacle of the Jews, and the sacrifices, offerings, purifications and anointings may be all found amongst and practiced by those people.”

It is to be noted, however, that Mr. Fitzpatrick is not inclined to adopt these evidences as proof that the Indians are descended from the Jews, but considers them as mere coincidences, liable to occur among the natives of any portion of the globe.

In an interview which the writer had several years ago with Rev. John Johnston, a native educated Ottawa Indian, and a minister of the gospel of the Episcopal Church among the Ojibways at White Earth Agency, Minn., he expressed his belief quite firmly that the aborigines were descendants from the Jews, and cited instances of their manners, customs and habits in support of this opinion.

There is a marked similarity between the customs of the Indians and the Jews in their mourning for the dead. Like the Jews, the Indians had a time or season for mourning for the dead. A custom among the Jews of loud lamentation over the dead was also a peculiar custom of the American tribes. In Gen. xxxii, 34, it is said that *’ Jacob rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his loins, and mourned for his son many days.” This is suggestive of a like custom among the American Indians. Among the Indians the friends of the deceased visited the graves of their departed relatives and there resumed their custom of weeping and shrieking. This was also a prominent custom among the Jews, as noticed in John xi, 31 : ” She goeth out to the grave to weep there.” The custom of engaging women to mourn over the bodies of the dead, which prevailed among the American tribes, was also a custom among the Jews, as mentioned in Jer. ix, 17 : ** Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, consider ye, and call for the mourning women that they may come.”

Among the Indians it was a custom for the bridegroom to make presents to the father or parents of the bride as a consideration in the transaction. This custom also prevailed among the . Jews; Jacob gave a term of service as a consideration for Eachel. Gen. xxix, 20.

Among the Jews, parents negotiated marriage between sons and daughters. Hagar chose a wife for Ishmael. Gen. xxi, 21. Judah selected a wife for Er. Gen. xxxviii, 6. The like custom prevailed among the American Indians.

The marriage ceremony among the American tribes was much the same as with the Jews. In Gen. xxiv, 67, it is said ” Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent, and took Eebekah, and she became his wife.” Rev. James Freeman, in his book entitled ” Manners and Customs,” says there is no evidence of any special religious forms in these primitive marriages. The marriage ceremony consisted of the removal of the bride from the father’s house to that of the bridegroom, or that of his father. The marriage ceremony among the American tribes was of like simplicity, and very much the same.

The Indians, like the Jews, had a custom of burnt offerings, as that of the burning of tobacco, as an offering to the Great Spirit They had also a custom like that of the meat offering of the Jews. See Lev. vi, 14. They also, like the Jews, had a sacrifice of animals. Num. xix, 2. Instead of the red heifer without a spot, as with the Jews, it was a white dog without a spot or blemish.

Like the Jews, they had their feasts for various occasions. Amongst others was a feast of first fruits, such as the strawberry feast of the Iroquois. The harvest feast was universal with all tribes who raised the Indian corn or zea maize. This corresponded to the like custom among the Jews. Ex. xxiii, 16.

Dancing on various occasions was a custom practiced among the American Indians as with the Jews, although not precisely in the same form. Dancing was performed at first among the Jews on sacred occasions only. Among the Hebrews it was joined with sacred songs and was usually participated in by the women only. When the men danced it was in company separate from the women. When Jeptha returned from his conquest over the Ammonites, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances. When the men of Benjamin surprised the daughters of Shiloh, the latter were dancing at a feast of the Lord. Judges, xxi, 19-21. A corresponding custom of dances among the Hebrews, as given in scripture, is found among all the American tribes, the occasion for many of which is precisely the same.

The Israelites used the mortar for beating their manna. Num. xi, 8. It was by this means that the Indians of America from time immemorial beat their corn and thus prepared it for use.

The custom prevailing among the Jews of anointing the head, and in using oils on other parts of the body, also prevailed among the American tribes.

Sign language, so common among the American tribes, is also marked as a mode of communication among the Jews. In Proverbs, vi, 13, it is said “He speaketh with his feet; he teacheth with his fingers.”

The Indians, at the close of their speeches in council, used a word of like signification as the word Amen, common among the Jews as stated in 1 Chronicles, xvi, 36. U A11 the people said Amen, and praised the Lord.” Amen literally means firm, from Aman, to prop, to support Its figurative meaning is faithful ; its use is designated as affirmatory response, and the custom is very ancient among the Jews. See Num. v, 22, Deui xxvii, 15-16. The Iroquois, in closing their speeches, used the word Hiro, of the like import of the Jewish word Amen. The Pottawattamies, a tribe of the Algonquin group, used the word Hoa.

The Indian medicine lodge or council-house corresponds much to the ancient Jewish synagogues, which were originally places of instruction rather than of worship, and wherein, it is said, the Jews read and expounded the law. We find Christ publicly speaking in the synagogues, and so also the Apostles in their missionary travels addressing the people in the synagogues.

The secret order of medicine men and prophets of the Indians had a corresponding institution among the Jews called “sons of the prophets,” forming a peculiar order, whose mission seems to have been to assist the prophets in their duties, and in time to succeed them. 2 Kings, ii, 3-12; vi, 1.

A personage corresponding to the Indian medicine man is found in the ”wise men” or Magi of the Jews, spoken of in Mathew, ji, 1. We find in the Old Testament several references to the Magi. In Jer. xxxix, 3, 13, Nergal-sharezer is said to have been the Rab-mag, that is, the chief of the Magi. In Daniel’s time the Magi were very prominent in Babylon. In Dan. ii, 2, “magicians,” “astrologers,” “sorcerers,” and “Chaldeans” are mentioned, while in the twenty-seventh verse of the chapter “soothsayers” are named.

Some tribes of Indians had a custom of making images or a kind of idols, not as an object of worship, but to imitate or personate some particular spirit or god, to whom they paid some kind of adoration. A like custom seems to have prevailed among the Jews, mentioned in 1 Samuel, vi, 5.

A custom prevailed among western Indian tribes, who lived in villages of dirt houses, of assembling on the tops of their dwellings on festive or public occasions; this was likewise a custom among the Jews. See Judges, xvi, 27, wherein it is said, “there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women, that beheld while Samson made sport”

The Indians felt that menial service was degrading. Service of this kind among them was performed by the women. The same idea prevailed among the Jews, who considered it a degradation to be hewers of wood and drawers of water. Josh, ix, 21.

The bow and arrow, the common and efficient weapon with the primitive American Indian, was also in common use among the ancient Jews. See 2 Kings, xiii, 15.

The ancient Israelites lived in tents in the style of the most of the American tribes.

In notions of dress there was a striking similarity between the American Indians and the Jews, especially in regard to the outer garment thrown over the shoulders or wrapped around the body. The Indian medicine man or prominent chief possessed a peculiar vanity in regard to their dress, which was frequently gaudy and fantastic, and so with the high priests among the Jews where display in dress was a peculiar feature in Jewish custom among those high in authority. It was a custom among the Jews to sleep in their garments, Deut. xxiv, 12-13, and so with the American Indians.

The name Dorcas, Acts, ix, 36, it is said, means antelope or gazelle. According to some writers the Jews had a custom of giving to their daughters poetic names, or names significant of beauty or beautiful objects. This was a marked custom with the American Indians.

According to Mr. Freeman, it was an ancient custom among the Jews to give names to families from animals. This found a corresponding custom among the Indians, in adopting their totems to mark their families, as the bear, the deer, the elk, and the like. The custom is continued among the Israelites down to the present time, as found in the name of Wolf, Bear, Lion and other names from animals.

It was a custom among the Jews to give names to persons that have some special signification, as Reuben, ” See a Son.” This custom likewise prevailed among other eastern nations. This was a universal custom among the American Indians, as Sheeshebanee (Ojibway), “little duck.”

The change of names of persons in after life on particular occasions was a custom of the Jews. 2 Chron. xxxvi, 4; Gen. xxxii, 28 ; xxxv, 10. It was also a custom among the American Indians.

By an ancient mode of declaring war, practiced amongst the Jews, a herald came to the confines of the enemy’s territory, and, after observing certain solemnities, cried with a loud voice, ” I wage war against you,” at the same time giving reasons therefor. He then shot an arrow or threw a spear into the enemy’s country, which was significant of warlike intentions. The custom among the Indians, in declaring war, was to send a bundle of arrows to some representative chief of the enemy.

The Indian practice of lying in ambush to surprise an enemy, it seems, was also a practice to some extent among the Jews. In Judges, v, 11, is the following: “They that are delivered from the noise of archers in the places of drawing water, there shall they rehearse the righteous acts of the Lord.” This, it is said, refers to the practice of lying in ambush near wells and springs for the purpose of seizing flocks and herds when brought thither for water.

When a war party of Indians returned to their villages after the victory, it was customary for the women and children, with the old men remaining behind, to assemble and express their great joy by singing, shouting and other demonstrations. This was likewise a custom among the Jews, as appears 1st Sam. xviii, 6: “It came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music.” See also Ex. xv, 20. Judges, xi, 34.

The war club and other weapons of the Indians were like those of the Jews. Jer. li, 20. With the Jews, the same as with the Indians, these weapons were buried with the dead. Ezek. xxxii, 27.

The custom of wearing buffalo horns by distinguished warriors, attached to their head dress, seems to have existed also among the Jews. In 1st Kings, xxii, 11, it is said ” the false prophet Zedekiah made him horns of iron,” and in Ps. lxxv, 5: ” Lift not your horns on high; speak not with a stiff neck.”

Rev. Peter Jones, an educated Ojibway Indian, in the appendix to his book, entitled “History of the Ojibway Indians,” quotes approvingly the following from a recent publication which he considers good authority, and wherein is summed up in general terms the most striking analogies between the American tribes and the ancient Israelites:

“They (the Indians) are living in tribes, with heads of tribes; they all have a family likeness, though covering thousands of leagues of land, and have a tradition prevailing universally that they connect that country at the northwest corner. They are a very religious people, and yet have entirely escaped the idolatry of the Old World. They acknowledge one God, the Great Spirit, who created all things seen and unseen. The name by which this being is known to them is Ale, the old Hebrew name of God; he is also called Tehowah, sometimes Yah, and also Abba; for this great being they possess a high reverence, calling him the head of their community, and themselves his favorite people. They believe that he was more favorable to them in old times than he is now; that their fathers were in covenant with him, that he talked with them, and favored them. They are distinctly heard to sing, with their. religious dances, Hallelujah and praise to Yah; other remarkable sounds go out of their mouth as shilu yo, shilu he ale yo he-wah, yohewah, but they profess not to know the meaning of these words, only that they learned to use them on sacred occasions. They acknowledge the government of a Providence overruling all things, and express a willing submission to whatever takes place. They keep annual feasts, which resemble those of the Mosaic ritual ; a feast of first fruits, which they do not permit themselves to taste until they have made an offering of them to God; also an evening festival, in which no bone of the animal that is eaten may be broken ; and if one family be not large enough to consume the whole of it, a neighboring family is called in to assist; the whole of it is consumed, and the relics of it are burned before the rising of the next day’s sun. There is one part of the animal which they never eat, the hollow of the thigh. They eat bitter vegetables, and observe severe feasts, for the purpose of cleansing themselves from sin ; they also have a feast of harvest, when their fruits are gathering in ; a daily sacrifice and a feast of love. Their forefathers practiced the rites of circumcision, but not knowing why so strange a practice wag continued, and not approving of it, they gave it up. There is a sort of jubilee kept by some of them. They have cities of refuge, to which a guilty man, and even a murderer, may fly and be safe.”

Rev. Jabez B. Hyde, a minister of the gospel, of prominence in Western New York, and of considerable experience among the Seneca Indians, writing in 1825 concerning his information derived from the aforesaid people on the subject of their manners and customs, says that of the meaning of words they used in their dances and divine songs, they were wholly ignorant They used the words T-O-He- Wah and Hal-le-lu-yak as represented of other Indians. Speaking further in regard to their apparent affinity with the Jews, he says: “In all their rites which I have learned from them, there is certainly a most striking similitude to the Mosaic rituals; their feast of first fruits; feasts of ingathering; day of atonement; peace offerings; sacrifices. They build an altar of stones before a tent covered with blankets ; within the tent they burn tobacco for incense, with fire taken from the altar of burnt offering.” Mr. Hyde further remarks that these Indians had formerly places like cities of refuge existing among them, and that an old chief had shown him the boundaries of one of them.


Art by George Catlin 1796 – 1872

 


On this subject the testimony of Mr. George Catlin may be considered as important, he having spent eight years amongst the wildest and most remarkable tribes then existing in North America, commencing in the year 1832, as an artist and student of Indian history and manners and customs. He describes at length and in detail the manners and customs of these tribes, in concluding which, he says:

“Amongst the list of their customs, however, we meet a number which had their origin, it would seem, in the Jewish ceremonial code, and which are so very peculiar in their forms, that it would seem quite improbable, and almost impossible, that two different people should ever have hit upon them alike, without some knowledge of each other. These I consider go farther than anything else as evidence and carry in mind conclusive proof that these people are tinctured with Jewish blood.”

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Native Americans are Remnants of the Jews

 “And again, I command thee that thou shalt not covet thine own property, but impart it freely to the printing of the Book of Mormon, which contains the truth and the word of God—Which is my word to the Gentile, that soon it may go to the Jew, of whom the Lamanites are a remnant, that they may believe the gospel, and look not for a Messiah to come who has already come.” D&C 29:26-27

“A great nation (the United States of America) shall be set up… by the power of God, so that the gospel may be restored, the Book of Mormon come forth, its message go to the American remnant of Jews, that the eternal covenants of the Lord with his people might be fulfilled.” “The remnant of Jacob, including the Lamanites in the Americas”, will assist in the gathering of Israel to the promised land  New Jerusalem.” McConkie, Bruce R., Mortal Messiah, Book 4, 1981, pp. 348-349, 358

“I hope that when you read the Book of Mormon you will read carefully the last chapter of first Nephi, which refers to the day in which we are living. In this chapter Nephi talked about this land and the gentiles who in latter days would be brought here. Then he said:

And it meaneth that the time cometh that after all the house of Israel have been scattered and confounded [the scattering of the ten tribes and the Jews to all parts of the world], that the Lord God will raise up a mighty nation among the Gentiles, yea, even upon the face of this land [the United States]; and by them shall our seed be scattered. [Through the Indian wars the Indians were scattered by the early Americans.]” The Great Prologue by Mark E. Petersen.

Brother Nephi, One of the Three Nephites Carry’s Gold Plates

You can read all the quotes yourself below. It makes sense the answer to me is, the man who appears at the wagon carrying the knapsack on his back, was one of the Three Nephites, probably named Nephi. David and his mother Mary gave very similar descriptions at different times which is very conclusive to me. 

John C. Whitmer’s 1878 account

As recorded by Andrew Jenson (see his Latter-Day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia 1:283, Salt Lake City, Utah: 1901):

“I have heard my grandmother (Mary Musselman Whitmer) say on several occasions that she was shown the plates of the Book of Mormon by a holy angel, whom she always called Brother Nephi.

Edward Stevenson Accounts

“And an aged man about 5 feet 10, heavy set, and on his back an old fashioned army knapsack strapped over his shoulders and something square in it, and he walked alongside of the wagon and wiped the sweat off his face, smiling very pleasantly. David asked him to ride and he replied, ‘I am going across to the Hill Cumorah.’ Edward Stevenson, Journal, Dec. 23, 1877 quoted in Richard L. Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book, 1989), 30.

Tickets Now

“I wish to mention an Item of conversation with David Whitmer in regard to Seeing one of the Nephites, Zina Young, Desired me to ask about it. David Said, Oliver, & The Prophet, & I were riding in a wagon, & an aged man about 5 feet 10, heavy Set & on his back, an old fashioned Armey knapsack Strapped over his Shoulders & Something Square in it.” “Edward Stevenson Interview (1) 22-23 December 1877, Richmond, Missouri Diary of Edward Stevenson,” LDS Church Archives, Lyndon W. Cook, ed., David Whitmer Interviews, 1993, p. 13; also Dan Vogel, ed., Early Mormon Documents, 2003, vol. v, p. 30

Anita Murdock Account

The reason she was interested in the Three Nephites, is because the same one stopped by their family home in Watertown, Jefferson, NY and taught them the gospel of Jesus Christ… 

The family was having what we might call a family home evening one night, discussing scriptures and playing music, when they had a knock at their door, and when opened, they found a man dressed in old fashioned clothes, who said that he usually takes sequestered paths…

Joseph confirmed it was one of the three Nephites sent to prepare them to receive the gospel. Since Zina had spent an entire evening with one of the three Nephites, not a moment, but an entire night learning from him, you can imagine why she was so interested in this story. -Anita Murdock

David Whitmer Account

“It was the messenger who had the plates [of the Book of Mormon], who had taken them from Joseph just prior to our starting from Harmony” David Whitmer to Elders Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith in 1878 and in Andrew Jensen, Historical Record, p. 209), and in 1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary page 508

Jonathan Neville’s Account

“The simplest, historically justified explanation is that David told Zina and her family the story when he contacted them as a missionary. Zina remembered it and told Stevenson to ask David about it in 1877. Stevenson recorded it and wrote about it.” Jonathan Neville

Who is the messenger spoken of? One of the Three Nephites!

I have studied this part of Church History very thoroughly and I know Rod and Jonathan have as well. The story about the “messenger” who appeared at the Whitmer wagon with Joseph and Oliver riding, on their way to Fayette, and the story about the “Cave at Cumorah” that Joseph Smith entered many times. Both stories scream out truth which validates that Book of Mormon events happened in North America in my opinion.

Editors Account

These two stories make the events of the Book of Mormon happening in Mesoamerica as not likely. Showing two repositories of records at Hill Cumorah is significant. One depository is the Stone Box where the original gold plates were found by Joseph Smith, and a second depository in a different location in Hill Cumorah where wagons full of records were found. In this large cave was also the Sword of Laban and the Liahona which were not found with the gold plates and the Urim and Thummim. Both of these accounts have been published in Church History since 1923 in the Doctrine and the Covenants Commentary shown below.

If the Cave at Cumorah really existed (which it did, see page 47 Doctrine and the Covenants Commentary), there would be no reason for Moroni to walk all the way from Mesoamerica to NY to deposit the plates. In fact think about it. If there was a cave at Cumorah with wagon loads of plates (all Nephite and Jaredite records) and the sword of Laban and the Liahona, how would Moroni bring all of this back to the hill Cumorah in New York? Would he have made 5 or 6 trips of over 3,000 miles each way? My friend Val Chadwick Bagley illustrates that idea below that I asked him to draw. Before he drew the picture he believed the Meso story, but was soon converted after realizing the absurdity of these many trips to Mesoamerica and back to NY.


Art by Val Chadwick Bagley

Historical Information from Church History

The First Presidency in 1923 of Heber J Grant, Charles W. Penrose and Anthony W. Ivins and again in 1950 The Publication Committee of  Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee and Marion G. Romney, assigned by Pres George Albert Smith, approved some historical information from Church History (page 508 below) that has much to do with Book of Mormon Geography. The last edition of the commentary was also published in 1978 by Deseret Book and approved by Pres Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner and Marion G. Romney.

Within this Commentary speaking about section 84, contains comments pertinent to Book of Mormon geography by telling the historical account by David Whitmer saying, “the messenger who had the plates [of the Book of Mormon], who had taken them from Joseph just prior to our starting from Harmony.” Again I ask, who is the messenger spoken of? We report, you decide!

On page 508 of the The Doctrine and the Covenants Commentary (picture above) it says,

Approved commentary from 3 Presidencies

 


“The following anecdote, which was told by David Whitmer to Elders Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith in 1878, may be retold here: When I was returning to Fayette, with Joseph and Oliver, all of us riding in the wagon. Oliver and I on an old- fashioned wooden spring seat and Joseph behind us — while traveling along in a clear open space, a very pleasant, nice-looking old man suddenly appeared by the side of the wagon and saluted us with, ‘Good morning, it is very warm,’ at the same time wiping his face or forehead with his hand. We returned the salutation, and, by a sign from Joseph, I invited him to ride if he was going our way; but he said very pleasantly, ‘No, I am going to Cumorah.’ This name was something new to me; I did not know what Cumorah meant. We all gazed at him and at each other, and as I looked around inquiringly of Joseph, the old man instantly disappeared, so that I did not see him again. “Whitmer described his appearance and added, it was the messenger who had the plates [of the Book of Mormon], who had taken them from Joseph just prior to our starting from Harmony”(Andrew Jensen, Historical Record, p. 209) 1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary page 508 More Details at this blog

David Whitmer and the Messenger by Jonathan Neville

“Some people still dismiss David Whitmer’s account of the messenger taking the plates from Harmony to Cumorah before arriving in Fayette with the plates of Nephi.

I discussed this in 2016, but there are a lot of new readers who probably missed those posts so I’m posting updated versions of them here.

Note on Cumorah, David Whitmer and Zina Young

I realize the topic of Cumorah has been discussed a lot lately, but there are still people who claim the founding prophets and their successors were wrong when they taught that the Hill Cumorah of Mormon 6:6 is in western New York. I’ve covered this topic in detail here. This post covers a new bit of information that’s always been available but a lot of people don’t know much about it.

If you’re new to this topic, it has to do with two of the Three Witnesses. Those who advocate the Mesoamerican/two Cumorah geography (M2C) reject Oliver Cowdery’s description of Cumorah in Letter VII. They also reject David Whitmer’s explanation of the first time he heard the word Cumorah (which he said was in June 1829, before he’d ever read the text, and he heard it from a heavenly messenger).

The rationale for rejecting David Whitmer’s testimony is that he supposedly never talked about it until 50 years after the fact, in interviews he gave to Edward Stevenson in 1877 and to Joseph F. Smith and Orson Pratt in 1878.

Here’s how one scholar articulated the argument:

Edward Stevensen

“The earliest possible connection between the New York hill and the Book of Mormon Cumorah comes from an 1878 interview with David Whitmer by Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith,… This report [the Whitmer interview] would be much more conclusive had it not been recorded nearly fifty years later. The passage of time and the accepted designation of “Cumorah” as the name of the New York hill by the time of the recollection argue against the second-hand report from Whitmer as being a definitive statement.”

There are all kinds of logical errors in that statement, but I’ve addressed those before. Today, I want to point out something in the Stevenson statement, taken from his contemporaneous journal.

I obtained a copy of Stevenson’s journal recently and here’s what his entry says:

Page from Stevenson journal

“I wish to mention an Item of conversation with David Whitmer in regard to Seeing one of the Nephites, Zina Young, Desired me to ask about it. David Said, Oliver, & The Prophet, & I were riding in a wagon, & an aged man about 5 feet 10, heavy Set & on his back, an old fashioned Armey knapsack Straped over his Shoulders & Something Square in it, & he walked alongside of the Wagon & Wiped the Sweat off his face, Smileing very Pleasant David asked him to ride and he replied I am going across to the hill Cumorah. Soon after they Passed they felt Strangeley and Stoped, but could see nothing of him all around was clean and they asked the Lord about it. He Said that the Prophet Looked as White as a Sheet & Said that it was one of the Nephites & that he had the plates.”*

Art by Brooke Mahlia Mann

Edward Stevenson was a general authority (one of the seven presidents of the Seventy). He was a well-known missionary (one of the MTC buildings is named after him). There’s no reason to doubt the credibility of his interview with David Whitmer.

What I find fascinating is that Zina Young asked Stevenson to ask David Whitmer about seeing one of the Nephites. That was the focus of the interview, not the Cumorah question.

Zina Young

This means that Zina had heard this story earlier. 

Why Zina Young? 
And when could she have heard it? 
And from whom?

It could not have been from the interview with Joseph F. Smith, which occurred a year later.

Instead, the evidence indicates she heard it from David Whitmer directly!

Zina was born in 1821. Her family lived in Watertown, New York. In 1835, when she was 14 years old, two missionaries came to town: Hyrum Smith and David Whitmer. Hyrum baptized her on August 1, 1835. The family moved to Kirtland, and eventually to Far West, and then to Nauvoo along with most of the rest of the Saints. Zina married, had two children, and then also married Joseph Smith. After his death, she married Brigham Young. (That’s a topic for another day.)

David Whitmer left the Church in 1837-1838 and lived in Missouri for the rest of his life. Zina would have had no contact with him after about 1837, at the latest. If that’s the case, then she could only have heard the story from him between 1835 and 1837–just a few years after 1829, when David said the event happened.

Of course, modern Mesoamerican scholars will dispute this somehow, but the argument that David’s testimony is unreliable because it was 50 years late contradicts the Stevenson account.

Interestingly, Zina was also the one who inherited Joseph’s seer stone after Brigham Young died.

The simplest, historically justified explanation is that David told Zina and her family the story when he contacted them as a missionary. Zina remembered it and told Stevenson to ask David about it in 1877. Stevenson recorded it and wrote about it. 

Then Joseph F. Smith asked David about it, and he reiterated his account of the event.

It’s not a 50-year-old story related from a feeble and tainted memory. It’s a retelling of an account related by a missionary to his investigators just a few years after the event. Other than to defend the M2C ideology, there’s no reason to cast doubt on the testimony of the Three Witnesses.
________________

David Whitmer

The bottom line is this: 
To accept M2C, you have to disbelieve two of the three main witnesses to the Book of Mormon: Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer. The M2C advocates seek to persuade you these two men were not reliable witnesses when it comes to the issue of Cumorah being in New York.

By contrast, to accept the North American setting (Moroni’s America or the Heartland), you fully embrace what these two men said.

References: http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/BYUIBooks/id/3527

*You can find this account in these references, although apparently not transcribed exactly: “Edward Stevenson Interview (1) 22-23 December 1877, Richmond, Missouri Diary of Edward Stevenson,” LDS Church Archives, Lyndon W. Cook, ed., David Whitmer Interviews, 1993, p. 13; also Dan Vogel, ed., Early Mormon Documents, 2003, vol. v, p. 30._____

More on David Whitmer, Zina Young, and Cumorah

avid Whitmer, circa 1855
(photo links to JSP)

This post offers more detail on David Whitmer and Zina Young.

I’ve had some feedback on the previous post that there is no evidence Zina had heard about David Whitmer’s Cumorah experience from David himself. It’s true we don’t have written evidence of when she heard the story or from whom, but Stevenson’s journal shows Zina had heard it from somewhere before Stevenson visited Whitmer. That’s why she told Stevenson to ask Whitmer about it. I imagine the conversation being something such as this:

Zina: “You’re going to visit David Whitmer?”
Stevenson: “I plan to. I hope he’ll see me.”
Zina: “Ask him about the Nephite he met.”
Stevenson: “He met a Nephite?”
Zina (nodding): “And he was carrying the plates to the hill Cumorah because Joseph didn’t want the responsibility. David, Joseph and Oliver Cowdery were riding in a wagon from Harmony to the Whitmer farm. He’ll tell you all about it.”
Stevenson: “Sounds interesting.”
Zina: “You should publish it when you get back.”

The M2C advocates who reject David’s testimony rely on the “late” retelling to Stevenson and Joseph F. Smith. Their objection is based on the premise that David’s experience hearing the term “Cumorah” for the first time occurred in 1829, but he did not tell the story before 1877. Certainly, 50 years after the fact could be considered late; each person has to assess that “lateness” in light of the detail of Whitmer’s account, the surprising and unusual circumstances (most people probably remember their first encounter with divine messengers), and the presence of Joseph and Oliver when the event occurred.

The Stevenson account undermines the “lateness” objection, however. Whether Zina heard the story directly from Whitmer in 1835, or heard it from someone else, the point is that she did hear it before Stevenson asked Whitmer about it. From his journal, we have to infer that Stevenson had not heard the story before.

There is no record of anyone knowing this story before Stevenson’s interview with David, except for Zina. So all the evidence we have suggests that before the interview, the only two people who knew the story were Zina and David (and Oliver and Joseph, if David’s testimony is to be believed, but Joseph and Oliver were dead by then).

And the only evidence we have of David and Zina interacting was when David and Hyrum Smith were missionary companions in 1835 in Watertown, NY, where Hyrum baptized her. [This is no minor point. David Whitmer didn’t go on a lot of missionary journeys. When you read Zina’s account, notice how she emphasizes how hard David worked to persuade her to get baptized. It seems reasonable to infer he tried everything he could, including his viewing of the golden plates as one of the Three Witnesses. In this context, his claim he saw one of the Nephites carrying the plates to Cumorah would naturally be another thing to bring up.

Later, Joseph F. Smith and Orson Pratt visited David Whitmer and elicited the same story from him. This suggests they first heard it when Stevenson published it (or told them about it).

Zina published an article, probably taken from parts of her journal we don’t otherwise have now, in the April 1893 issue of The Young Woman’s Journal. Titled “How I Gained my Testimony of the Truth,” the article gives details on how she joined the Church in 1835. It is available online here. In the next section, I show the relevant aspects of Zina’s article.

In the following summer Hyrum Smith and David Whitmer came to our house and stayed several days. Father and mother had been baptized in the April of that same year, but neither myself nor my sister were baptized.

David Whitmer persuaded me to be baptized while they were at our home, but some way I did not accept his offer. I had told my sister-in-law, Fanny Huntingdon, that when she was baptized I would go with her.

The morning for the departure of these men from our house arrived, and I had not as yet become a member of the Church. That morning, a short time before they were to start, Hyrum Smith’s cousin rode up with a message that they could not leave that day, as my brother Dimick and his wife Fanny, my dear sister-in-law, were desirous of being baptized.

That morning at prayers I had presented to me a heavenly vision of a man going down into the water and baptizing someone. So when this message came I felt it was a testimony that the time had come for me to receive baptism. Brother Hyrum Smith was mouth in prayer, and in my secret soul I had a wish that he should baptize me. I had refused the coaxing of Brother Whitmer, as I told myself, because mother and father were going away from home, and I had all the home cares on me, and I feared I would be tempted to speak crossly or say something I ought not to after so sacred an ordinance as that; but this strong testimony that the proper time had arrived I did not dare treat lightly.

As soon as I consented to go with my brother and sister-in-law David Whitmer began talking about performing the office for us. Happily for me, however, Brother Hyrum was chosen by the others to be the proper one and I added my preference to their words. Accordingly, we all went down to the water and were baptized by Hyrum Smith, and confirmed under the hands of Hyrum Smith and David Whitmer. [This was on August 1, 1835.]

Article by Jonathan Neville here

Why does Book of Mormon Central say a “messenger” is Moroni?

Edward Stevenson’s journal said, “And an aged man about 5 feet 10, heavy set, and on his back an old fashioned army knapsack strapped over his shoulders and something square in it, and he walked alongside of the wagon and wiped the sweat off his face, smiling very pleasantly. David asked him to ride and he replied, ‘I am going across to the Hill Cumorah.’ Soon after they passed, they felt strange and stopped but could see nothing of him-all around was clear. And they asked the Lord about it. He said that the Prophet looked as white as a sheet and said that it was one of the Nephites, and that he had the plates.See Edward Stevenson, Journal, Dec. 23, 1877

See the title assigned to the painting by Book of Mormon Central as, “Mary Whitmer and Moroni” by Robert T. Pack (See picture below)

In the actual article below, Book of Mormon Central never mention the messenger as “Moroni”, just as “a messenger“. Why would they call this messenger Moroni? Take a look at the description of Edward Stevenson below. He says that David Whitmer identified the messenger as 5’10” and heavy set. Does that describe the Moroni we all know as described by Joseph Smith? NO!
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/what-does-mary-whitmer-teach-us-about-enduring-trials

Original source (Joseph F. Smith, 1918):

“In the middle of this prairie, all of a sudden, there appeared a man walking along the road, and David said he raised his hat and rubbed his brow, as if it were a little warm, and said good morning to them, and they said good morning. Oliver and David looked at each other and began to marvel and wonder: Where did he come from, what does it mean? David described him saying he had on something like an old-fashioned knapsack, but of course a little differently formed, right across his shoulders, and on his back he was carrying something of considerable weight.

“They looked round to Joseph inquiringly: What does it mean? And Joseph said, “Ask him to ride.” So David, who was teamster, asked him if he would get in and ride with them. He said, “No, I am just going over to Cumorah.” David said, “Cumorah? Cumorah? What does that mean?” He had never heard of Cumorah, and he said, I thought I knew this country all around here, but I never heard of Cumorah” and he inquired about it. While he was looking around and trying to ascertain what the mystery was the man was gone, and when he looked back he did not seem him any more. Then he demanded, “What does it mean?”

“Joseph informed him that the man was Moroni, and that the bundle on his back contained plates which Joseph had delivered to him before they departed from Harmony, Susquehanna County, and that he was taking them for safety, and would return them when he (Joseph) reached father Whitmer’s home. There was a long talk about this.”

To be sure, there is a discrepancy in the accounts about whether this messenger was Moroni or one of the Three Nephites, a topic I’ve discussed elsewhere, but there is complete consistency among all the accounts that the messenger was going to Cumorah.” Jonathan Neville

John C. Whitmer’s 1878 account
As recorded by Andrew Jenson (see his Latter-Day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia 1:283, Salt Lake City, Utah: 1901):


5’10” Heavy Set Old Man Brother Nephi,
one of the Three Nephites?

“I have heard my grandmother (Mary Musselman Whitmer) say on several occasions that she was shown the plates of the Book of Mormon by a holy angel, whom she always called Brother Nephi. (She undoubtedly refers to Moroni, the angel who had the plates in charge.)”

Why would John C. Whitmer change his grandmother’s name for the messenger from Brother Nephi, to Moroni?

Over 6 foot medium build Moroni?

We think the messenger appearing at Joseph and David’s wagon, (picture left) and the same messenger that appeared to Mary Whitmer at her farm and the same messenger who knocked at the door of Zina to teach her about Christ, could very well be one of the Three Nephites named Brother Nephi, AND IT WASN”T MORONI!

You Choose!


More Information from Zina Huntington by Ryan and Anita Murdock below:

I read your blog this morning and have a bit more to add. Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young is my husbands 3rd great grandmother and was the wife of two prophets, sealed twice to Joseph Smith (once by her brother Dimmock, best friend of the prophet, and then again by Brigham Young, after he returned from England.) She later married Brigham for time only.  The reason she was interested in the Three Nephites, is because the same one stopped by their family home in Watertown, Jefferson, NY and taught them the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is mentioned in the book 4 Zina’s about her mother Zina, herself, her daughter Zina and granddaughter Zina. The family was having what we might call a family home evening one night, discussing scriptures and playing music, when they had a knock at their door, and when opened, they found a man dressed in old fashioned clothes, who said that he usually takes sequestered paths. the mother of the family, Zina Baker Huntington, had said she wished she could hear the gospel from someone who KNEW CHRIST. The man told them all about Jesus Christ in a manner that they had never heard before, as if he did know Christ, and stayed the night with them. Later after they were gathered with the Saints, William Huntington related the story to Joseph, who asked them the describe the man, which he did. Joseph confirmed it was one of the three Nephites sent to prepare them to receive the gospel. Since Zina had spent an entire evening with one of the three Nephites, not a moment, but an entire night learning from him, you can imagine why she was so interested in this story. -Anita Murdock

Blog about Two Depositories in Hill Cumorah
Blog about Two Sets of Plates Translated by Joseph
Blog about Church History and Two Sets of Plates

Intellectuals Determined to Convince the Prophet Joseph, was a Just a Man

Many intellectuals seem determined to convince everyone that the prophet was simply a man. Elder Packer said, We knew that already.” He was and is now, simply an incredible Prophet of God.

“Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.” D&C 135:3

Joseph Knew the Book of Mormon Geography

I feel it is significant to show some of the deeply held biases of some of our intellectual members of the church. When it comes to geography of the Book of Mormon I believe Joseph Smith knew all along that events began in North America.

Joseph said in the Wentworth letter,I was also informed concerning the aboriginal inhabitants of this country [America] and shown who they were, and from whence they came; a brief sketch of their origin, progress, civilization, laws, governments, of their righteousness and iniquity, and the blessings of God being finally withdrawn from them as a people, was [also] made known unto me; I was also told where were deposited some plates on which were engraven an abridgment of the records of the ancient prophets that had existed on this continent…”

Joseph continued in the Wentworth letter to say, “With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called “Urim and Thummim,” which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rims of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God.

First Lamanite Mission in the United States of America D&C 28, 30, 32

In this important and interesting book the history of ancient America is unfolded, from its first settlement by a colony that came from the Tower of Babel at the confusion of languages to the beginning of the fifth century of the Christian era. We are informed by these records that America in ancient times has been inhabited by two distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites and came directly from the Tower of Babel. The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites of the descendants of Joseph. The Jaredites were destroyed about the time that the Israelites came from Jerusalem, who succeeded them in the inheritance of the country. The principal nation of the second race fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country. This book also tells us that our Savior made His appearance upon this continent after His Resurrection;” Wentworth Letter (Red Text added which shows to me that Joseph was speaking from the area of New York in the USA and his references were about America, not Mesoamerica. It’s logical and makes sense).

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We should all be open minded to listen to differences in our opinions about the geography of the Book of Mormon. I believe there is only one Hill Cumorah and others are welcomed to share why they feel there are two Cumorah’s. I believe events of the Book of Mormon happened in the USA and others who contribute to some of our Church publications such s “Saints”, believe events happened in Central America. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is officially neutral about where the events took place. Since the Church is neutral, why do many intellectuals who correlate and edit Church History, promote a specific geography in Central America? It’s a subject worth learning more about. I believe Joseph Smith taught a North American setting for the Book of Mormon and never hinted at a Central American setting. You can decide what you believe.

Intellectuals Concerned about an Occultic Joseph?

Pres Benson said, “For those concerned how this occultic “Joseph Smith” could make its way into Church publications, President Ezra Taft Benson offered this advice, “Sometimes from behind the pulpit, in our classrooms, in our Council meetings and in our church publications we hear, read or witness things that do not square with the truth. . . . Now do not let this serve as an excuse for your own wrong-doing. The Lord is letting the wheat and the tares mature before he fully purges the Church. He is also testing you to see if you will be misled. The devil is trying to deceive the very elect.” Ezra Taft Benson, “Our Immediate Responsibility” (BYU Devotional, Provo, October 25, 1996), https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/ezra-taft-benson_immediateresponsibility.

I have noticed some peculiar beliefs behind some very intellectual men and women that are good active members. They believe in Christ and the Gospel. They believe in the Doctrine of the Church. They generally believe the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve. They believe in past Prophets and Apostles mostly. (Most likely disagreeing slightly with Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, Ezra Taft Benson, and David O. McKay. They believe members of the Quorum of the Seventy mostly but have a few different opinions on many issues. They believe their peers, and scholars in a group think setting. They believe the Prophet Joseph Smith, but often try and put him down, or make him more human.

I realize I am generalizing, but I am trying to make a point. In my opinion it seems many historians, professors and intellectuals try and bring Joseph Smith down just a notch more often than anyone else.

Elder Packer said, Some historians write and speak as though the only ones to read or listen are mature, experienced historians. They write and speak to a very narrow audience. Unfortunately, many of the things they tell one another are not uplifting, go far beyond the audience they may have intended, and destroy faith. What that historian did with the reputation of the President of the Church was not worth doing. He seemed determined to convince everyone that the prophet was a man. We knew that already. All of the prophets and all of the Apostles have been men. It would have been much more worthwhile for him to have convinced us that the man was a prophet, a fact quite as true as the fact that he was a man.” The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect Elder Boyd K. Packer

Quotes about Intellectual Opinions

“Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a Prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead people, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false” .Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1 (Bookcraft, 1960), 188

I have come to believe that it is the tendency for many members of the Church who spend a great deal of time in academic research to begin to judge the Church, its doctrine, organization, and leadership, present and past, by the principles of their own profession. Ofttimes this is done unwittingly, and some of it, perhaps, is not harmful. The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect Elder Boyd K. Packer

This problem has affected some of those who have taught and have written about the history of the Church. These professors say of themselves that religious faith has little influence on Mormon scholars. They say this because, obviously, they are not simply Latter-day Saints but are also intellectuals trained, for the most part, in secular institutions. They would that some historians who are Latter-day Saints write history as they were taught in graduate school, rather than as Mormons. The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect Elder Boyd K. Packer

President Brigham Young admonished Karl G. Maeser not to teach even the times table without the Spirit of the Lord. How much more essential is that Spirit in the research, the writing, and the teaching of Church history. The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect Elder Boyd K. Packer

I don’t believe these quotes above were said too long ago for us to believe them today. Why do we at times become complacent with older quotes of Prophets and look for new and out of the box thinking? I love the quotes above and know many intellectuals at BYU and in may Stakes, try too much to come up with new and seemingly progressive ideas. Say no the revisionists and stick with traditional values which are still important today. It’s been a few years since the amazing “Faith Crisis” books of the Stoddard’s have come to light, but they are more relevant today than ever. I challenge you to read them and have your children who may have a faith crisis read them. All will learn that it’s ok to be traditional.

FAITH CRISIS: Did the LDS Church Lie? (Part 1 ) We Were NOT Betrayed! By James and Hannah Stoddard

“A Reconstructed Narrative” 

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“Many remain unaware of the growing movement among disaffected members and disgruntled academic scholars within the Church to change our history. While the effort to progressively alter the traditional history is not a new phenomenon, the last few years have produced a sharp increase in the number of prominent Latter-day Saint historians and intellectual scholars who are calling for a ‘reconstructed narrative.’ 

The Bushman Challenge

One of those leading that charge [reconstructed narrative] is Richard L. Bushman, a prominent, progressive, New Mormon Historian whom some consider the “world’s foremost scholar on Joseph Smith and early Mormonism.” During a July 12, 2016 fireside, Bushman responded to a participant’s question regarding whether the traditional understanding of Church history is accurate: 

Question: In your view do you see room in Mormonism for several narratives of a religious experience or do you think that in order for the Church to remain strong they would have to hold to that dominant narrative? 

Click to read how this book has been debunked!

Richard Bushman: I think that for the Church to remain strong it has to reconstruct its narrative. The dominant narrative is not true; it can’t be sustained. The Church has to absorb all this new information or it will be on very shaky grounds and that’s what it is trying to do and it will be a strain for a lot of people, older people especially. But I think it has to change.    The following month, Bushman elaborated on his meaning in connection with a new reconstructed narrative by making the following statement:  “I consider Rough Stone Rolling a reconstructed narrative.  It was shocking to some people.  They could not bear to have the old story disrupted in any way.  What I was getting at in the quoted passage is that we must be willing to modify the account according to newly authenticated facts.  If we don’t we will weaken our position.  Unfortunately, not everyone can adjust to this new material. 

Many think they were deceived and the church was lying.  That is not a fair judgment in my opinion.  The whole church, from top to bottom, has had to adjust to the findings of our historians.  We are all having to reconstruct.” Richard Bushman Bushman is not alone in calling for a new Joseph Smith, and a new Church history with an accompanying newly-crafted Mormon culture. Throughout this and later chapters we will hear from historians who are encouraging a “new era,” and who hope to shift the general consciousness of the Church toward one of ‘intellectual enlightenment.’ One professor even went so far as to call for the “foundation” to be torn down and completely rebuilt. 

According to Bushman, from the most-recently baptized member, to multi-generational Latter-day Saints born and raised in the Church—all the way to the hierarchy—large numbers many are turning to the historians who are eagerly altering the foundational fundamental restoration story, based on their new ‘enlightened’ own interpretation. In the progressive mind their minds, Latter-day Saints have been fed a fictitious fallacious account of their  Mormon origins, but all now need to adapt their antiquate down understanding ideas to match the positions of these broad-minded progressive historians. For Bushman and his eager proselytes, the old story was inaccurate, and—at best—a feel-good myth; or—at worst it was a deliberate deceit, at its worst. Apparently, everyone was fooled except a few the New Mormon Historians, who have now solved the puzzle. 

Who is this new ‘Joseph Smith,’ and what constitutes a “reconstructed narrative”?  For those who are unaware, Bushman’s book, Rough Stone Rolling, presents a Joseph Smith who differs dramatically from the Joseph Smith advocated spoken of by past leaders, teachers and scholars in Presidents of the Church. 

In contrast According to Rough Stone Rolling:  

  • Joseph Smith was “involved in magic” (p 53). 
  • Joseph Smith’s involvement in “magic . . . was a preparatory gospel” (p 53) and “[r]emnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end” (p 51). 
  • Joseph Smith gave “angry responses,” and “lashed back.” (pp 295-296). 
  • Joseph Smith had “easily bruised pride.“ He was “unable to bear criticism” and “rebuked anyone who challenged him” (p 296).
  • Joseph Smith suffered from “treasure-seeking greed” (p 51).
  • The Smith family has been “diagnosed as a dysfunctional family that produced a psychologically crippled son” (p 55).
  • The Smith family was drawn to “treasure-seeking folklore,” and saw astrology and magical “formulas and rituals” as connected to their spiritual well-being (pp 50-51).
  • “Magic and religion melded in Smith family culture” (p 51). 
  • Consecration “never worked properly. . . . The system’s two-year existence was about average for the various communal experiments being undertaken in the period” (p 183). 
  • Joseph Smith Sr. was an “oft-defeated, unmoored father” (pp 26-27) who “partially abdicated family leadership” (p 42).   
  • Joseph Smith Sr.’s “life [was] blighted by shame” (p 42). 
  • “Was Joseph Smith an adulterer? . . . Had Joseph been involved in an illicit affair?” (p 323) 
  • Joseph Smith’s “boasting” made his personal secretary “a little uncomfortable” (p 484). Joseph would “cut loose with extravagant comments about his mastery” (p 484). 
  • Joseph Smith had “outrageous confidence” for attempting the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the Bible (p 132). 
  • “Treasure seeking taught Joseph to look for the unseen in a stone” (p 131).  
  • Joseph “from time to time drank too much” (p 43). 
  • Joseph “probably exaggerated” the persecution after relating his First Vision. (p 43) 
  • Joseph Smith had “[n]o flashes of intelligence, ambition, or faith distinguish him” (p 143).  
  • Joseph Smith “was not the luminous figure he is sometimes made out to be. . . . His own person was effaced” (p 112). 

Bushman admitted that the proposed ‘reconstructed narrative’ of Latter-day Saint Church History, as well as the life and character of the Prophet Joseph Smith  clearly departed from the traditional or “dominant narrative” given to us by previous past Church historians, including Willard Richards, who was present at the Carthage martyrdom, George A. Smith, first cousin to the Prophet Joseph Smith, and Presidents Wilford Woodruff and Joseph Fielding Smith.   

Is The Dominant Narrative True?

Is the dominant narrative true? To answer this question, we must first define what it is that represents the dominant narrative. For nearly two centuries, the Church maintained a consistent message about its foundational events; that God directed Joseph Smith as His Prophet to restore His truth, and to organize the Church according to the pattern of His primitive Church. Furthermore, that account characterizes the Prophet Joseph Smith as a righteous man who built the Church based on literal revelations received directly from God; that actual angels appeared, and the members witnessed the manifestation of authentic miracles.

Additionally, God restored His priesthood through Joseph Smith, the restorer and Head of this dispensation, who stands next to the Son of God in righteousness and holiness as a pure and holy vessel.  Subsequent to the sealing of the Prophet Joseph Smith’s testimony with his blood—at the Martyrdom where he fell with his noble brother, Hyrum—Brigham Young, who called himself “Joseph’s apostle,” continued to promote the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and to orchestrate his vision. Succeeding leaders and faithful members earnestly strive to carry on the Prophet Joseph’s work, testifying of and echoing his teachings in their lives, and to the world.  Traditionalists believe the points of the foregoing represent the essence—the dominant narrative—of the Restoration event, and that true history and credible sources corroborate the particulars of this account. The evidence, and the historical witnesses, stand in full support of the Church’s and Joseph Smith’s accounts.

Progressives disagree adamantly, arguing that the dominant narrative of the Church is “not true,” and believing that an immense cover-up has occurred—that when acknowledged, will allow a full-scale reconstruction of the story. The Angel Moroni told Joseph Smith that his name would be “had for good and evil,” so it is perhaps fitting that the struggle continues, both on the world’s stage and in the homes of the members of the Church. Time will vindicate the truthfulness of the record; that there was no cover-up, and that the true greatness of Joseph Smith is not less—but rather far greater—than what we might have imagined.   Nevertheless, the Church is a temporal organization of imperfect human beings who strive, with varying degrees of success, to follow God’s will. Along the way, there have been some issues and historical complexities in which Presidents of the Church and other General Authorities acted in less-than-straight-forward ways. There have been times when the Lord required Presidents to act on His direction, and there may have been other times when Presidents acted according to the best light and knowledge they had, and were doing their best. 

Examples of where the Church leaders were perhaps less than one hundred percent straight-forward might include Joseph Smith’s carefully-worded denials of plural marriage in Nauvoo. This can be understood in considering that the Lord had commanded the practice of plural marriage in opposition to the laws of the land, necessitating that its practice be out of the public eye. Another example might be the continuance of post-1890 Manifesto polygamy. The Church publicly discontinued the practice of plural marriage with the issuance of the Manifesto (Official Declaration 1), but plural marriages were afterwards performed with the sanction of the President of the Church for some years. We do hold that the Presidents of the Church did not commit any dishonourable actions or decisions contrary to the will of God.

This becomes clear once one understands the true history. However, the history and further exploration into these subjects exceeds the purpose of this work; they must fall under the pen of a future volume.   In addition to these highly-poised issues, Presidents of the Church—especially during the administrations of David O. McKay and Spencer W. Kimball—and even more so during recent times, have paid careful attention to the message available to the media; and so far as is possible, have portrayed the Church in its best-possible light according to public opinion and perception. All businesses and organizations are acutely aware of this necessity today. Is every decision made by leaders altogether inspired? Such answers are far too difficult for us to know individually, but the responsibility stands rightfully between the Lord and the leaders of the Church. We believe, at least generally, that these decisions have been made in righteousness.  

However, historical nuances and the analogue of human imperfection are not the focus of this book; nor, we would suggest, are they the source of the ‘trust gap,’ the sense of lost moorings, felt by so many of today’s Latter-day Saints. At the end of the day, one question nagging thousands of Latter-day Saints can be summarized thus: “Is the dominant, traditional narrative true?” One might further ask, “Did the founding of the Church originate as presented by Joseph Smith and his companions who affirmed his narrative, or are there skeletons in the closet?” Progressives claim the Church covered up its history for nearly 200 years, but the student of truth must ask, is the current faith crisis the result of unmasked history . . . or of new interpretations

The authors believe that the dominant narrative is not only true, but in many respects has been understated. The Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the work of Joseph Smith and those loyal to his mission, is greater than we as a people might understand. It is the sincere belief of the authors that the nobility and greatness of Joseph Smith surpasses the glory that even his most ardent supporters concede.   

Unbeknownst to the general Church membership, the 20th century would witness an organized effort to rewrite Latter-day Saint history from within its own ranks. In a head-to-head, behind-the-scenes-battle, traditional leaders resisted intellectual progressives working in the Church History Department and at BYU, who claimed some forty years ago that it would take a generation to re-educate the Church membership. Where are we in this attempted re-education? What is the New Mormon History, and how does it personally affect you and your family?  

Purchase Part II Here

Join us as we explore newly-available diaries, review old books, and bring untold history into the light!  

Leonard Arrington told the Church History Division staff in 1976 that it would “take a generation to educate the Church to historical trends.’”

Leonard J. Arrington Diaries, September 23, 1976; Leonard J. Arrington and Gary James Bergera, Confessions of a Mormon Historian: The Diaries of Leonard J. Arrington, 1971-1997, vol. 2 (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2018), 243, footnote 46.  Biblical Criticism has led many scholars to determine that the Creation, the story of Adam and Eve, Noah’s worldwide Flood, the account of Jonah and the whale, Moses’ Exodus, and other miraculous events, are merely fictional stories with an allegorical purpose. Where did they come from? Some advocates of Biblical Criticism maintain that many were borrowed from Babylonian and Canaanite pagan myths.” Faith Crisis Part 1, James and Hannah Stoddard 

BYU linked, Dragshow, Exposing Children, Enough!

Shock: BYU linked, Dragshow, Exposing Children, Enough! Take Action

This article is disturbing. Defending Utah has been a great vendor and speaker at our Firm Foundation events and does a lot of great work. This evil at the doorsteps of BYU needs to be known. I feel I need to let people know what’s happening. I have a moral obligation. This event by the “RaYnbow Collective” as they call themselves, is beyond disturbing, it is evil smut and even though they are not doing this on BYU campus, its right next door.

I fully understand they have a right to express and have a freedom to the first amendment, but I also know by the report from Defending Utah there were little children present and that is illegal. The police just sit around it seems and allow this evil to be displayed around children. I can’t imagine what parent or pervert would want a child to see this behavior. We are truly living is Satan’s world.

Our wonderful Church is doing what it can to address the problems, but we must remeber that people have their free agency. We can’t stop people, nor should we from expressing free speech. We just need to figure out how to combat and attack evil when we see it. I am sad that the people who promote radical sex and abhorrent behavior, will need to explain at the bar of God.

Elder McConkie said, “I do not know all of the providences of the Lord, but I do know that he permits false doctrine to be taught in and out of the Church and that such teaching is part of the sifting process of mortality.” Bruce R. McConkie, McConkie’s 1981 letter to BYU

Here’s what a good friend told me after seeing this article:

“BYU needs to be exposed and the administration fired for even having a club on campus that contradicts the values of the church. They have crossed so many lines preaching evolution, and gender neutrality and all the crap that’s of the adversary. They accept students that desecrate the church’s values and spit upon the founders of the church and Brigham Young. They should NEVER be allowed to attend our supposed religious institution.

It’s not a religious institution anymore and the church needs to take back control or stop financially supporting it! And to call this family friendly is total evil! Yes, PLEASE share my concerns. I’m so sick of the people who attend BYU looking down their noses at those who choose not to go there as if they are holier than thou. And this is what they are learning there now. Its got to STOP!! My kids growing up in BYUs shadows learned early on they did NOT want to go there with all the self righteous people they were once friends with. It destroys people with the double standard and the hypocritical manner and doctrine they learn both in the classroom and on campus! Ok there’s my soap box!” Anonymous

“It is now time that we each implement extraordinary measures — perhaps measures we have never taken before — to strengthen our personal spiritual foundations. Unprecedented times call for unprecedented measures.” Oct 3, 2021 President Nelson

Defending Utah

September 6, 2022 by Defending Utah

“Did you see this teaser below on social media?  Then you’ve come to the right place.

On Sep 3rd, 2022 – We covered a drag show event targeting children in the name of BYU through various BYU affiliated groups. The public event happened at Kiwanis park in Provo, just barely off campus.

Too many wouldn’t believe it if someone didn’t document it.  So here’s the full story with tons of details. Sign and share the petition to BYU at the bottom of this article.

Defending Utah, exercising our first amendment right to freedom of the press, assigned three journalists to the crowd working together at this public event.  The group putting on the drag show, the “RaYnbow Collective” (The Y is to claim their representation of BYU homosexuals) claimed this would be a “family friendly” drag show.  That’s difficult to do, since the nature of cross-dressing itself is not family friendly (the reason why the LDS church hasn’t even allowed it for employees at Halloween parties). Sexual fetishes have never been considered family friendly anywhere and as one protestor from Utah County put it, “Drag is a sexual fetish”.

But still, our intent was to give the benefit of the doubt and neutrally observe as journalists and report facts.  If the show was truly benign, we would report it as such.  But instead, the evidence shows the “family friend” intention is a complete lie. Instead, the evidence points strongly to suggest it’s intended to expose children to sexual content at inappropriate age levels.

New Section: BYU Connections

UPDATE: We’ve added this section for clarity based on feedback. This article already explains the various connections to BYU, but this summary paragraph is to put it into one place, because some people need to see it in one place, not everyone reads the whole article.

1. The drag queens themselves were both BYU students and BYU alumni doing the child grooming on stage, according to students and alumni that Defending Utah interviewed.
2. The Official Sponsoring Group was the “RaYnbow Collective” (it’s their screenshot above).
3. The group was raising money at the event, which they labeled for six different purposes. Some of those purposes are activities known to happen as part of the BYU experience.
4. The group uses the BYU “Y” logo, transformed into a rainbow. BYU does
not stop these unofficial groups from using their branding and implying
some level of endorsement from the university.
5. They’re supposedly an “unofficial” BYU group, as if that’s an excuse to distance this behavior from the university, however this is not a real excuse:
a. The same group is reported to hold other events on campus, even if this one was slightly outside campus. Students see them as a part of the university and the university culture.
b. Faculty do attend the meetings for this group, so they have faculty organizational help in their activities.
6. BYU professors have openly declared their opposition to the proclamation on the family, and they teach this to students. Read that article here.
7. BYU has a dozen or more groups that fall into the gender dysphoria category, some are official and some are not (listed below, and on the petition), and the same circles of students, alumni and staff may rotate between the groups. BYU provides money and resources to some, but not others. So picking and choosing which groups do the controversial things is only a dishonest way to hide that the university is supportive of the agenda as a whole.
8. Color the Campus – A related group is one of the most famous for “coloring” the BYU campus, they do events on campus, as their name even suggests.  The only difference is there is no child grooming on campus (yet).
9. See the video linked below of a walk through of BYU’s sociology department, to see how widespread this is at parts of the school.
10. Some other examples we’ve exposed about BYU professors engaging in anti-family behavior:
– BYU: Princess Culture Helps Boys Overcome Toxic Masculinity
– BYU Professor Pushing Removal of Family Proclamation
– BYU Professor Attacks Teachings of the Church”
by Defending Utah Complete Article Here


100 protesters yelled slurs in Provo as LGBTQ students at BYU celebrated coming back to school

by Salt Lake Tribune

“Clubs for queer students who attend BYU are not allowed to meet on campus; the school operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints forbids it, as well as any same-sex romantic partnerships or displays of affection among LGBTQ students.

So the RaYnbow Collective, a nonprofit that supports the BYU queer community, holds an annual gathering at a park at the start of every school year. This year, they went bigger than ever before, planning what they billed as a family-friendly drag show — which included current and former BYU students as performers.”


Elder Holland asks BYU faculty to defend the university’s unique mission; offer love, hope to LGBTQ while upholding God’s commandments

“PROVO, Utah — After loving Brigham Young University for nearly three-fourths of a century, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland pleaded with BYU faculty and staff on Monday, Aug. 23, to do their part to ensure the university “stands unquestionably committed to its unique academic mission and to the Church that sponsors it.”

“From one who owes so much to this school and has loved her so deeply for so long, keep her not only standing but standing for what she uniquely and prophetically was meant to be,” he said…

Elder Holland also shared a few lines from another memo. “ ‘You should know,’ the writer says, ‘that some people in the extended community are feeling abandoned and betrayed by BYU. It seems that some professors (at least the vocal ones in the media) are supporting ideas that many of us feel are contradictory to gospel principles, making it appear to be about like any other university our sons and daughters could have attended. Several parents have said they no longer want to send their children here or donate to the school…

LGBTQ and BYU

“Elder Holland said Church leaders “are not deaf or blind to the feelings that swirl around marriage and the whole same-sex topic on campus.”

“I and many of my Brethren have spent more time and shed more tears on this subject than we could ever adequately convey to you this morning, or any morning. We have spent hours discussing what the doctrine of the Church can and cannot provide the individuals and families struggling over this difficult issue. So, it is with scar tissue of our own that we are trying to avoid — and hope all will try to avoid — language, symbols and situations that are more divisive than unifying at the very time we want to show love for all of God’s children.” Read Entire Article Here


Tickets Here       Speaker Complete Schedule Here

 Listen to Greg Matsen, one of Firm Foundation Conference Speakers

The Great and Abominable Church- The Devil is the Founder

Once again I thank our friend David W. Allan for posting this brief and vital information from Chauncy Riddle. Two brilliant and special men who know about truth. I pray we listen to them. And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.” 1 Nephi 13:6
Today this Great and Abominable Church is alive in Politics, Sports, Religion, Hollywood Music, Big Pharma, Big Corporations, Big Tech, and Deep State Governments all over the World. We are inundated with Satan in 90% of those things in this world that focus and promote money and power, including evil Churches. Let’s heed the Prophets council who said, “It is now time that we each implement extraordinary measures — perhaps measures we have never taken before — to strengthen our personal spiritual foundations. Unprecedented times call for unprecedented measures.” Oct 3, 2021 President Nelson


The Great and Abominable Church

Chauncey C. Riddle
Chauncey C Riddle

Guest Post:  Chauncy C. Riddle and I have been very good friends for a long time.  His understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and his political awareness is unmatched.   Chauncey C Riddle is a Professor Emeritus of Philosophy from Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah. He is a religious leader in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He has written many articles for the Ensign, Sunstone Magazine, and BYU Studies. He has also written countless articles and has published the milestone  book entitled, “Think Independently,” that everyone should read.

Some Things to Know About “The Great and Abominable Church”

  1. It is found among every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, and covers the whole earth.
  2. It is operated under the direct control of Satan.
  3. It has its own temples, ordinances, and priestly vestments.
  4. It has its own gospel, which is taught everywhere and is believed by most of the educated and by many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  5. It tries to either capture or drive out every other church and is very close to doing so.
  6. It fosters abortion, artificial birth control, and euthanasia.
  7. It tries to destroy the Ten Commandments and Christian standards.
  8. It pretends to be like a democracy but it is actually totalitarian.
  9. It is the most influential force in the world.
  10. It is in your face every day of the world.

But almost no one talks about it. Most people do not realize it exists. But it is doing the task God has assigned it to do and makes the blessings of the New and Everlasting Covenant possible to be received and enjoyed for everyone who deliberately rejects it in favor of Faith in Jesus Christ.

C.C.Riddle The Great and Abominable Church


Join us at the 30th Book of Mormon Evidence Conference.
Over 75 inspirational speakers.

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Satan’s Tool- Evolution

“Although through the majority of the 1900s controversy existed in the Church and at BYU dealing with the subject of evolution, the Church has officially stated its neutral stance on evolution, and the BYU administration today has been supportive of the teaching of evolution.” Daily Universe by Rachel Keeler July 2019 Source

In 2016, the Church’s youth magazine published articles on the pursuit of scientific truth. These articles reiterated that “the Church has no official position on the theory of evolution” and characterized it as a “matter for scientific study.” Echoing countless statements of Church leaders, the articles once again affirmed God’s role in creation and our relationship to our Heavenly Father as His children.” Gospel Topic Essay’s

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Neutrality in my Opinion

I think there is importance in the Brethren being neutral on geography, evolution and other difficult issues. They want us to gain our own witness to secondary information. They have given us sound doctrine and that is what we should focus on. I know through the Spirit that the Book of Mormon is true. However, I love to seek for other truth and as Moroni has said “I may know the truth of all things.”

False Doctrine

“I do not know all of the providences of the Lord, but I do know that he permits false doctrine to be taught in and out of the Church and that such teaching is part of the sifting process of mortality.” Bruce R. McConkie, McConkie’s 1981 letter to BYU

To me this is a very important part of understanding our purpose in life. In order to reach our fullest potential, we must hear other sides of issues. It is a way the Lord prepares us for Godhood. I am just saddened if some of our sweet naïve 18 year old’s become indoctrinated before they have the confidence to push back and pray about whether they are being taught truth or lies.

Darwinian Deceptions – Defending Truth for Today’s Latter-day Saints

Ever since Charles Darwin published his theory on the Origin of Species in 1859, evolution’s influence has steadily grown. Many people no longer even question it’s validity; however, most Christians (including Latter-day Saints) who hold to a biblical view of the Creation and man’s origins have struggled with the Darwinian assertion that all life evolved from a common ancestor over millions of years, and that humans evolved from simpler life forms.

I Don’t Believe in the Darwinian Opinion of Evolution

I have personally followed our Prophets words below. I don believe man came from an ape and I don’t believe something can be created out of nothing. I have personal revelation on a few of these these things.

Art by Ken Corbett

“Does God really want to speak to you? Yes! “As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course … as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.”

You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.

I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson


Creation and Evolution; A Witness of Prophets

The following are quotes from Joseph Fielding Smith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints involving the concepts of organic evolution. I love Joseph Fielding Smith and that is more than likely the reason many liberals and progressives don’t love him. I am a conservative Latter-day Saint and follow neither political party but I follow the Lord and the inspired Constitution.

It is hoped that this information will help give insight and perspective on the teaching of evolution being done at nearly every university, college, and public high school across our nation to our most precious treasure, our children. For more detailed information presented in a historical context that provides tremendous understanding of the origins and growth of the theory of evolution and what it’s being taught means to us today and the terrible results it has already produced in this nation and around the world, read Joseph Fielding Smith.

Joseph Fielding Smith
Prophet January 23, 1970 – July 2, 1972

Organic evolution is Satan’s chief weapon in this dispensation in his attempt to destroy the divine mission of Jesus Christ. It is a contemptible plot against faith in God and to destroy the effective belief in the divine atonement of our Redeemer through which men may be saved from their sins and find place in the Kingdom of God. There is not and cannot be any compromise between the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the theories of evolution. Were evolution true, there could be no remission of sin. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Man, His Origin and Destiny, 184-185)

  • Note: President Joseph Fielding Smith was opposed to organic evolution and vocalized such opposition more than any other prophet of this dispensation. In fact, President Smith wrote an entire book that teaches against the theory, and he was asked to do so by members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Obviously, the entire book is too long to include here. This book, entitled Man, His Origin and Destiny, was highly recommended by President Ezra Taft Benson.

    President Joseph Fielding Smith has been condemned and criticized for the publishing of his book and for his other writings and sermons in which he denounces the false theory of organic evolution. Some critics insinuate that President Smith went against the First Presidency in publishing his views and that he became silent when he became the president of the Church. This is demonstrably false given that he himself became the Lord‘s mouthpiece. The Lord does not call men who have a habit of disregarding counsel to preside over His Church. This also runs counter to the testimony of President David O.
    McKay, who was the President of the Church at this time. His [Joseph Fielding Smith‘s] loyalty to the leadership of the Church has been uncompromising. He has supported his brethren in every endeavor. No man has ever been more loyal to the President of the Church. (Improvement Era, July 1966, p.613)

  • Note that Man, His Origin and Destiny was published in 1954. President Heber J. Grant also added his feelings about Joseph Fielding Smith‘s qualifications to speak on doctrinal matters. In a letter to Elder Smith he noted.

I don’t want to flatter you, Joseph, but I want you to know that I consider you the best posted man on the scriptures of the General Authorities of the Church that we have. I want you to prolong your life, I want you to make a business of trying to take care of yourself. Your affectionate relative,
HEBER J. GRANT (Advice from a Prophet: Take Time Out, BYU Studies copyright 1976, Richard O. Cowan)

These insinuations made by President Smith‘s detractors are also proven to be false by the inspired testimony of President Smith himself in the October 1970 general conference of the Church. At that time, when he spoke as the Lord‘s mouthpiece and as president of the Church, he said:

―For more than sixty years I have preached the gospel in the stakes and missions of the Church—pleading with the Saints to keep the commandments, inviting our Father’s other children to accept the truth of salvation which has come to us by revelation in this present dispensation. All my days I have studied the scriptures and have sought the guidance of the Spirit of the Lord in coming to an understanding of their true meaning. The Lord has been good to me, and I rejoice in the knowledge he has given me and in the privilege that has been and is mine to teach his saving principles. As I ponder the principles of the gospel, I am struck forcibly by the uniform manner in which I…have taught them over the years. The truths of the gospel are everlastingly the same. Like God himself, they are the same yesterday, today, and forever. What I have taught and written in the past I would teach and write again under the same circumstances.(President Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1970, 5.)

The following are only a few of President Smith‘s many teachings that denounce the false theory of organic evolution.

GOD: FIRST OF THE HUMAN FAMILY.
Let me comment first upon the expression that God is the “first of the human family.” This same doctrine was taught by Joseph Smith. It is a fundamental doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. According to the teachings of Joseph Smith, he beheld the Father and the Son in his glorious vision, and he taught that each had a body of flesh and bones. He also taught that, literally, God is our Father; that men are of the same race—the race called humans; and that God, the Progenitor, or Creator, is the Father of the human race. “In the image of his own body, male and female, created he them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created and became living souls in the land upon the footstool of God. It is a doctrine common to the Latter-day Saints, that God, the Great Elohim, is the First, or Creator, of the human family.‖ (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, volume 1, p. 102.)

NO DEATH ON EARTH BEFORE FALL

The Lord pronounced the earth good when it was finished. Everything upon its face was called good. There was no death in the earth before the fall of Adam. I do not care what the scientists say in regard to dinosaurs and other creatures upon the earth millions of years ago, that lived and died and fought and struggled for existence. When the earth was created and was declared good, peace was upon its face among all its creatures. Strife and wickedness were not found here, neither was there any corruption.
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1, p. 108.)

―If death was always here, then Adam did not bring it, and he could not be punished for it. If Adam did not fall, there was no Christ, because the atonement of Jesus Christ is based on the fall of Adam. And so we face these problems. If there is anybody here that believes that death has always been going on, and that sin was always here, he will have a difficult time to explain Adam and the fall, or the atonement. You see from these writings what a dreadful state these men get in when they do not believe in the fall and the introduction of sin into the world. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:119-120.)

THEORY OF EVOLUTION DENIES CHRIST.
Then Adam, and by that I mean the first man, was not capable of sin. He could not transgress, and by doing so bring death into the world; for, according to this theory, death had always been in the world. If, therefore, there was no fall, there was no need of an atonement, hence the coming into the world of the Son of God as the Savior of the world is a contradiction, a thing impossible. Are you prepared to believe such a thing as that? Do you believe that the first man was a savage? That he lacked
in the power of intelligence? That he has been on the constant road of progression? These are the teachings of such theorists. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:142.)

―CANNOT BELIEVE BOTH GOSPEL AND EVOLUTION
.
I say most emphatically, you cannot believe in this theory of the origin of man, and at the same time accept the plan of salvation as set forth by the Lord our God. You must choose the one and reject the other, for they are in direct conflict and there is a gulf separating them which is so great that it cannot be bridged, no matter how much one may try to do so. If you believe in the doctrine of the evolutionist, then you must accept the view that man has evolved through countless ages from the very lowest forms of life up through various stages of animal life, finally into the human form. The first man, according to this hypothesis known as the “cave man,” was a creature absolutely ignorant and devoid of any marked intelligence over the beasts of the field. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:141.)

―These theories [of organic evolution] taught in our schools should be taught only as theories for they can be nothing more. Unfortunately as previously said, they are presented by many instructors [Including many at Church schools] as though they were well established facts, with a positive assurance that belongs only to established truth. Between belief in God and the fact that he has directed and does direct his servants by revelation, vision, and personal visitation, and the theories based on organic evolution, there is a gulf that can never be bridged.

These theories are man-made deductions but the testimony of the prophets are actual facts, attested by sufficient witnesses, according to the decree of the Almighty, and thus it becomes incumbent upon every soul unto whom these testimonies come to carefully weigh them in the spirit of humility and prayer by which the knowledge of the truth may be received, and then accepted. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Man, His Origin and Destiny, 5.)

IF EVOLUTION IS TRUE, THE CHURCH IS FALSE.
If life began on the earth, as advocated by Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel (who has been caught openhanded perpetrating a fraud), and others of this school, whether by chance or by some designing hand, then the doctrines of the Church are false. Then there was no Garden of Eden, no Adam and Eve, and no fall. If there was no fall; if death did not come into the world as the scriptures declared that it did—and to be consistent, if you are an evolutionist, this view you must assume—then there was no need for a redemption, and Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, and he did not die for the transgression of Adam, nor for the sins of the world. Then there has been no resurrection from the dead! Consistently, logically, there is no other view, no alternative that can be taken. Now, my brethren and sisters, are you prepared to take this view? (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:143.)
EVOLUTIONISTS REJECT FATHERHOOD OF GOD.
The modern world is fulfilling the scriptures which say that in the last days men would be “ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” Today the world has discarded the great truth concerning the Fatherhood of God and has turned to fables. It has adopted and is promulgating in textbooks and schools the debasing doctrine that man is not the offspring of God, but a natural development through countless ages from the lowest forms of physical life to his present form and intelligence. Such a doctrine is an insult to our Father in whose Image we were created, and yet in this teaching vast multitudes seem to glory. Paul saw our day and by prophetic vision declared that such conditions would prevail in this dispensation and the Lord should ‘send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness‘. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:143.)

―These modernists, who are instructing and leading astray the people of this and other lands, reject the doctrine of the atonement of Christ; they reject the resurrection of the Son of God and consequently the resurrection of all mankind. They have discarded entirely the miracles of the scriptures and make light of the saving ordinances of the gospel which the Lord declared to be so essential to our salvation; and in the stead thereof they have accepted the theories and notions advanced by modern scientists which are evidently false, and have taken to their hearts and hugged to their bosoms the falsehoods set forth in the theories of evolution and of higher criticism of the scriptures. And why have they done this thing? Because the simple truth, which is understood by the Spirit of God and not understood and comprehended by the spirit of man, does not appeal to their reason. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:289-290.)

Darwin…lost his religion when he lost confidence in [William] Paley’s evidences. He says: “The old argument from design in Nature, as given by Paley, which formerly seemed to me so conclusive, fails now that the law of natural selection has been discovered. We can no longer argue that, for instance, the beautiful hinge of a bivalve shell must have been made by an intelligent being, like the hinge of a door by man.” “At the present day,” he continues, “the most usual argument for the existence of an intelligent God is drawn from the deep inward conviction and feeling which are experienced by most persons.” Formerly he was led by feelings such as those just referred to, to the firm conviction of the existence of God and of the immortality of the soul.

The grandeur of the Brazilian forest, he says, used to inspire him with religious awe. “But now the grandest scenes would not cause any such convictions and feelings to arise in my mind. It may be truly said that I am like a man who has become color-blind.” In another passage he mentions the fact that his love for poetry has gradually disappeared—a proof of the withering effect which continual scientific investigation may exert upon the soul! His state was, however, evidently preconditioned by the original intellectualistic bent of his religious convictions, formed by his early instruction. He has a feeling of having been cheated by false theories and proofs, and therefore looks with distrust upon the entire church. This is an every-day occurrence. Consequently it is a vital question for the church to assume a proper attitude towards science. The mutual distrust existing between science and the church is fatal to her. (Introduction to Philosophy, by Dr. Friedrich Paulsen, pp. 159-160.)

The quotations in relation to the loss of faith of Charles Darwin is taken from the book, Charles Darwin’s Life, by his son, Francis Darwin, page 63. One who follows the theories of Darwin, will eventually, like Darwin, lose all faith in God the Eternal Creator. A person cannot believe that bivalve shells come by chance and hinges of a door have to come by the act of an intelligent being, and be sound in his thinking. Verily, those who insistently follow the evolutionary theories, cannot at the same time accept and worship an intelligent anthropomorphic God!

Portrait of President Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., 192

“Question asked of Joseph Fielding Smith: “Since reading your book, Man: His Origin, and Destiny, I have been troubled by your difference in view of organic evolution and the age of man and the teachings of some of our most outstanding scientists who maintain that scientific evidence prove the earth and man to be much older than you claim. Your statements are contrary to what I have been taught and believe.”

President Smith’s Answer: If what I have written is in criticism of the present theories in relation to organic evolution and the age of man upon the earth, in which you believe, then I can readily see why you disagree with what I have taught. I will state frankly and positively that I am opposed to the present biological theories and the doctrine that man has been on the earth for millions of years. I am opposed to the present teachings in relation to the age of the earth which declare that the earth is millions of years old. Some modern scientists even claim that it is a billion years old. Naturally, since I believe in modern revelation, I cannot
accept these so-called scientific teachings, for I believe them to be in conflict with the simple and direct word of the Lord that has come to us by divine revelation. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5: 112.)

―EVOLUTIONARY THEORY FALSE.
This idea that everything commenced from a small beginning, from the scum upon the surface of the sea, and has gradually developed until all
forms of life, the beasts of the field, the fowls of the air, the fishes of the sea, and the plants upon the face of the earth, have all sprung from that one source, is a falsehood absolutely. There is no truth in it, for God has given us his word by which we may know, and all who are led by the Spirit of God can understand through that Holy Spirit, the truth of these things.

Organic evolution is Satan’s chief weapon in this dispensation in his attempt to destroy the divine mission of Jesus Christ. It is a contemptible plot against faith in God and to destroy the effective belief in the divine atonement of our Redeemer through which men may be saved from their sins and find place in the Kingdom of God. There is not an cannot be any compromise between the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the theories of evolution. Were evolution true, there could be no remission of sin.

Again, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, President Joseph Fielding Smith said:
―What I have taught and written in the past I would teach and write again under the same circumstances. (President Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1970, 5.)


Evolution Believers

Book of Mormon Central who are adamant believers in the Mesoamerican Geography of the Book of Mormon also share many of the theories of Organic Evolution. See the Abstract below from B.H. Roberts:

Abstract: Less than ten years before his death in 1933, B. H. Roberts, one of the most influential Mormon writers of the twentieth century, began work on “the most important book that I have yet contributed to the [LDS] Church.” A prolific and respected Mormon apologist, Roberts wanted to consolidate his theological thought into a unified whole and to reconcile science with scripture. His final manuscript, “The Truth, the Way, the Life,” synthesized doctrine into three sections: the truth about the world and revelation, the way of salvation, and Jesus’ life in shaping Christian character. He submitted his completed work to the LDS First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, which, after a series of heated meetings, rejected it. Roberts’s views on evolution, the age of the earth, the pre-earth existence, and the eternal progression of God were deemed too controversial, so his “masterwork” went unpublished. With the support of the Roberts family, editor Stan Larson has corrected this sixty-year omission from the corpus of Mormon theology. According to Leonard J. Arrington, former LDS Church Historian, “B. H. Roberts considered ‘The Truth, The Way, The Life’ to be the most important work he had written. While people may differ with him on that judgement, this ambitious treatise . . . shows a great mind grappling with great issues.”

Editor’s note

As I search the Book of Mormon Central Website for “evolution” Here is what I come up with. I want you to see both sides and then judge on your own. I believe an ape cannot become a man and a cat cannot become a dog. To me evolution means changes within a species.


Joseph Smith Foundation– James and Hannah Stoddard

I support the Joseph Smith Foundation and feel their research on Evolution to be very accurate.

“Many LDS scientists and other LDS church members who are proponents of evolutionary theory have mistakenly believed that Joseph Fielding Smith is one of the few Church leaders who was out spoken against evolution.  Because of this there has been an effort by some of these proponents of evolution to disregard President Joseph Fielding Smith’s words and pass them off as having been stated when he was “speaking as a man” and not “as a prophet.” In particular, President Smith’s work, “Man: His Origin and Destiny,” has come under “fire”.  The presiding church leaders, however, are unified on doctrinal issues and Joseph Fielding Smith did not stand alone in his quest against evolutionary theories.  After becoming Prophet and President of the Church, he said the following in General Conference, October 1970 (italics and underlining are added):”

As I ponder the principles of the gospel, I am struck forcibly by the uniform manner in which I and all the Brethren have taught them over the years.  The truths of the gospel are everlastingly the same. Like God himself, they are the same yesterday, today and forever.  What I have taught and written in the past I would teach and write again under the same circumstances. And what I say of myself should be true for all the Brethren and for all the elders of the Church.  We are all called to preach the gospel, to be ministers of Christ, to raise the warning voice, and to “teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.”

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Statements by President Gordon B. Hinckley such as the following have not been uncommon in conference proceedings:

I am pleased to report, my brethren, that there is harmony, there is total unity, among the General Authorities and among Church officers and leaders throughout the world wherever the work is organized.  1

A notable and powerful defense of Joseph Fielding Smith was offered by President Ezra Taft Benson in a BYU Twelve‑Stake Fireside speech where he said:

More recently one of our Church educators published what he purports to be a history of the Church’s stand on the question of organic evolution.  His thesis challenges the integrity of a prophet of God.  He suggests that Joseph Fielding Smith published his work “Man: His Origin and Destiny,” against the counsel of the First Presidency and his own Brethren.  This writer’s interpretation is not only inaccurate, but it runs counter to the testimony of Elder Mark E. Peterson, who wrote this foreword to Elder Smith’s book, a book I would encourage all of you to read: “…Some of us [members of the Council of the Twelve] urged [Elder Joseph Fielding Smith] to write a book on the creation of the world and the origin of man… The present volume is the result. It is a most remarkable presentation of material from both sources [science and religion] under discussion.  It will fill a great need in the Church and will be particularly invaluable to students who have become confused by the misapplication of information derived from scientific experimentation.” 2 

When one understands that the author to which I alluded is an exponent for the theory of organic evolution, his motive in disparaging President Joseph Fielding Smith becomes apparent.  To hold to a private opinion on such matters is one thing, but when one undertakes to publish his views to discredit the work of a prophet, it is a very serious matter. It is also apparent to all who have the Spirit of God in them that Joseph Fielding Smith’s writings will stand the test of time. 3” Joseph Smith Foundation. Continued here: https://josephsmithfoundation.org/doctrinal-fortifications-against-darwinian-evolution/

Suggested Routes of the Mulekites

Mike LaFontaine sent me this article below that is from the Sept 1973 Ensign.

It shares two possible routes for the Mulekites in about 550 – 600 BC from Jerusalem to Zarahemla in the Book of Mormon time period. We at Firm Foundation feel confident that it is most likely the Mulekites traveled through the Mediterranean and south with the winds, right into the Gulf of Mexico and up the Mississippi River where they were forced to stop because of the Des Moines River Rapids near Keokuk, IA. A perfect place to begin the main Mulekite Civilization in the New World. Mosiah would find them later in about 329 BC.


Possible Routes Suggested for Mulek’s Voyage
by Dr. and Sister Ross T. Christensen

Two possible routes of the voyage of Mulek and his followers to the New World “promised land” of the Book of Mormon have been proposed by Dr. and Sister Ross T. Christensen of Brigham Young University. Dr. Christensen is a professor of archaeology and anthropology; his wife is a graduate student in archaeology.

The Book of Mormon does not specify whether the Mulekites made their voyage to the Americas in the sixth century B.C. westward across the Atlantic Ocean or eastward across the Pacific. But since that history clearly indicates that they landed on the east coast of the “land northward,” the Christensen’s suggest that the Mulekites may have followed the Atlantic route.

A study of Atlantic Ocean currents together with other substantive information supports the feasibility of two possible routes that these early voyagers might have taken, according to the Christensen’s. One is a Mediterranean and North Atlantic route; the other is around Africa, then across the South Atlantic.

The sixth century before Christ was a time of extraordinary activity in exploration, trade, and colonization in the Mediterranean world and beyond. And the destruction of Jerusalem and the flight of Mulek and his people and others who were oppressed only accelerated a disposition to emigrate. Israelite colonies are believed to have existed at Cyprus, Crete, Libya, Jerba, and Carthage at the time of Jerusalem’s fall, some of them having been established, according to tradition, during the reigns of David and Solomon. Also dating from the period of David and Solomon was a tradition of Israelite commerce with the Phoenicians.

One hypothesis suggests that at least part of the colony that settled in America with Mulek was Phoenician, because the river Sidon, mentioned in the Book of Mormon, bears the name of the principal city of ancient Phoenicia, Sidon. Aided by Phoenician mariners and Hebrew colonists across the Mediterranean, Mulek’s group could have reached the Atlantic Ocean by traveling the length of the Mediterranean Sea. Once out on the Atlantic, Mulek would have entered into a powerful ocean current that sweeps southwestward from Spain and Portugal along the west coast of Africa, then veers westward across the Atlantic, continuing in an arc through the West Indies.

While the Christensen’s believe Mulek traveled this more direct route across the Atlantic, they have also considered the route around Africa and across the South Atlantic as another possibility.

A powerful ocean stream originates in the Indian Ocean in the vicinity of Madagascar, sweeps southward around the Cape of Good Hope, veers westward across the South Atlantic to a point on the north of the eastern tip of Brazil, and continues northward off the coast of South America until it merges with the current flowing across the North Atlantic. Thus, if a vessel were to embark on the Red Sea and hold course close to the eastern shore of Africa until it reached the vicinity of Madagascar, it could follow the currents to the West Indies and the Gulf of Mexico.

Although twice as far as the Mediterranean route, this second possibility warrants consideration. It has been discovered that under orders of the Egyptian monarch Neccho II, Phoenician sailors in about 600 B.C. voyaged around the entire continent of Africa, and this was 2100 years before the same feat was accomplished by Vasco de Gama in 1498.

Another accomplishment about the time of the Mulekite voyage was an actual crossing of the Atlantic to America by Phoenician mariners who set sail in the Red Sea, taking the route around the Cape of Good Hope and across the South Atlantic to what is now Brazil. An ancient Phoenician inscription found at Paraiba, Brazil, sets the crossing between 534 and 531 B.C. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1973/09/discovery/possible-routes-suggested-for-muleks-voyage?lang=eng

Lehi’s Route

This second route that the Christensen’s think is a possible Mulek route, I definitely feel it is more likely a route for Lehi in 600 BC. Firm Foundation has been promoting this route for Lehi for many years now.

I believe the Book of Mormon Events began in North America as many prophets and leaders have taught. There are Lamanites in North, South, and Central America through migration, intermarriage and other circumstances. However, through much study research, time, and prayer it makes most sense to me that Lehi landed in Florida and Nephi leaving his brethren, ended up in northern Georgia and Tennessee. Mosiah left Tennessee and went to Iowa and Illinois to join the Mulekites who were already in those areas.

I feel it is very likely that the Mulekites came up the Mississippi River. The main reason I feel that way, is it says in Omni, the Mulekites had been the same place where Mosiah found them the entire time. “There”, in Onmi, would be defined as near the Mississippi River somewhere between Keokuk, IA and Montrose, IA where we feel the Land of Zarahemla is located.

You can also see the similar paths the Lord may have brought Columbus, Lehi, and Mulek on the map below. All three would have a similar direction through the Bahamas. It makes sense to me.

15 Behold, it came to pass that Mosiah discovered that the people of Zarahemla came out from Jerusalem at the time that Zedekiah, king of Judah, was carried away captive into Babylon.

16 And they journeyed in the wilderness, and were brought by the hand of the Lord across the great waters, into the land where Mosiah discovered them; and they had dwelt there from that time forth.

17 And at the time that Mosiah discovered them, they had become exceedingly numerous. Nevertheless, they had had many wars and serious contentions, and had fallen by the sword from time to time; and their language had become corrupted; and they had brought no records with them; and they denied the being of their Creator; and Mosiah, nor the people of Mosiah, could understand them.” Omni 1:15-17

Because they had become numerous, I am confident there would have been people all up and down the Mississippi from New Orleans and above into Wisconsin and Minnesota. Groups who fight and flee would always find an area where they could live in peace.

“And they gave an account of one Coriantumr, and the slain of his people. And Coriantumr was discovered by the people of Zarahemla; and he dwelt with them for the space of nine moons.” Omni 1:21

After Coriantumr was injured near Ramah [Cumorah] in New York, he would probably find a close river with a boat to get away, and have time to heal. All around Coriantumur would be the Genesee River that runs north to Lake Ontario, the Susquehanna River that runs south east to the Atlantic Ocean, and the Allegheny/Ohio River that runs south west to the confluence of the Ohio with the Mississippi River. This is all the Land of Zarahemla as you see in the map below in shaded yellow. Any where along these rivers Mosiah and his people could have discovered Coriantumr, including up to Nauvoo where the City of Zarahemla was.

Since the land of Zarahemla as all along the northern part of the Ohio river and all around the Mississippi River Coriantumr’s boat could have been.

As my friend Wayne May suggests, the Mulekites may have taken the St Lawrence northern route and followed the Great Lakes toward Detroit and ending up in Iowa. I just feel that would be a difficult route with the harsh flowing direction of the St Lawrence, the barrier of Niagara Falls, and not having a direct route from Detroit to Iowa on the Mississippi. It seems to me they would have had to stop several places along the way.

The Phoenicia Ship voyage of 2020 by Captain Philip Beale went from Tunisia through the Mediterranean then south to Florida, landing in Puerto Rico and then onto Miami shown on the map below:
In Dec 2021 I sent the following email to  Captain Beale:

Hi Philip:
I need your professional opinion as a navigator and ship Captain.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a 600 BC ship to sail to Nauvoo, Illinois, USA.

We have two suggested paths and I would like a short answer of which pathway to Illinois would be most likely and why.

1. From Tunisia across the Atlantic similar to the path you took in 2020. Instead of landing on the East Coast of Florida the ship would continue around Miami and travel up the Mississippi River and stop in Illinois USA and Nauvoo?

2. Or from Tunisia  going through Gibraltar and entering the St Lawrence Seaway following the Great Lakes through Lake Ontario Lake, Erie through Lake Michigan then taking the Mississippi River south to Nauvoo Illinois?

I am just looking for a basic decision based on the information you have now, with a most likely scenario.

Thanks for your suggestion.

Captain Beale Map

Captain Beale answered me with an email that said the following.

Hi Rian,

It is fairly straight forward I think.. the southern route is by far the easiest because of the prevailing winds and currents.

If you look at the Gulf stream that was first identified by Benjamin Franklin… from the Med. to the Caribbean is a simple conveyer belt.(See Map Below)

The winds and current are pretty much in synch most of the year and in the north north Atlantic the prevailing winds are West to East.. so very difficult for the Phoenicians to have gone the northern route.

Hope that helps. Philip Beale

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