One Question, Two Opinions:
Is there a Cave in Hill Cumorah New York, containing all the
Nephite & Jaredite Records?
Absolutely, Yes says FIRM
Absolutely Not, says FAIR
Defining Apologetics
Apologetics cannot prove that the Church is true, but it can show you answers that may help you in knowing the Church is true, especially through personal revelation.
FIRM and FAIR are both similar organizations as both are made up of great spiritual people who love the Lord and the Book of Mormon. Both claim to have answers to many challenging or even difficult gospel questions that may encourage or assist people to better understand the truthfulness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Neither organization speak in behalf of, or for the Church. Doctrine in the Church only comes from the Prophet and Apostles who both organizations support. Some have called these organizations, Apologists for the Church. (Others include, Book of Mormon Central, and The Interpreter).
The purpose of LDS Apologetics is to provide solid or well reasoned information that makes sense in answering supposed church related difficult questions, so that a conclusive decision of the truth of the Gospel and Church can be determined by study and prayer through the Spirit.
Austin Farrer, an English Anglican philosopher, theologian, and biblical scholar wrote, in the mid-19th century, “Though argument does not create conviction, lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish.”
Truth and Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned. A personal witness from the Holy Ghost must be the primary evidence for the reality of God, the divinity of Christ and the authority of the scriptures. “No man can say that the Jesus is the Lord,” wrote Paul, (I Corinthians 12:3) “but by the Holy Ghost.” Faithful, reasoned and rational argument, however, can open hearts and minds to the witness of the Spirit. Apologetics cannot prove that the Church is true, but it can show you answers that may help you in knowing the Church is true, especially through personal revelation.
Personal Revelation
As our dear Prophet said, “Does God really want to speak to you? Yes! “As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course … as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.
You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.
I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson
Question: Is there a cave in the Hill Cumorah containing the Nephite records?
On June 17, 1877, Brigham Young related the following at a conference:
I believe I will take the liberty to tell you of another circumstance that will be as marvelous as anything can be. This is an incident in the life of Oliver Cowdery, but he did not take the liberty of telling such things in meeting as I take. I tell these things to you, and I have a motive for doing so. I want to carry them to the ears of my brethren and sisters, and to the children also, that they may grow to an understanding of some things that seem to be entirely hidden from the human family. Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: “This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.” [1]
Editors Note by FIRM: Left off of the Brigham Young quote above is the final sentence by Brigham saying, “I tell you this as coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it just as well as we understand coming to this meeting. . . . [Don] Carlos Smith was a young man of as much veracity as any young man we had, and he was a witness to these things. Samuel Smith saw some things, Hyrum saw a good many things, but Joseph was the leader.” This adds additional witnesses to Brigham’s own words.
There are at least ten second hand accounts describing the story of the cave in Cumorah, however, Joseph Smith himself did not record the incident. [2] As mentioned previously, the Hill Cumorah located in New York state is a drumlin: this means it is a pile of gravel scraped together by an ancient glacier. The geologic unlikelihood of a cave existing within the hill such as the one described suggests that the experience related by the various witnesses was most likely a vision, or a divine transportation to another locale (as with Nephi’s experience in 1 Nephi 11:1). John Tvedtnes supports this view:
“The story of the cave full of plates inside the Hill Cumorah in New York is often given as evidence that it is, indeed, the hill where Mormon hid the plates. Yorgason quotes one version of the story from Brigham Young and alludes to six others collected by Paul T. Smith. Unfortunately, none of the accounts is firsthand. The New York Hill Cumorah is a [drumlin] laid down anciently by a glacier in motion. It is comprised of gravel and earth. Geologically, it is impossible for the hill to have a cave, and all those who have gone in search of the cave have come back empty-handed. If, therefore, the story attributed to Oliver Cowdery (by others) is true, then the visits to the cave perhaps represent visions, perhaps of some far distant hill, not physical events.[3]”
Given that the angel Moroni had retrieved the plates from Joseph several times previously, it is not unreasonable to assume that he was capable of transporting them to a different location than the hill in New York. As Tvedtnes asks, “If they could truly be moved about, why not from Mexico, for example?”[3] Written by FAIRMORMON
Notes
- Jump up↑ Brigham Young, “TRYING TO BE SAINTS, etc.,” (June 17, 1877) Journal of Discourses 19:38.
- Jump up↑ Cameron J. Packer, “Cumorah’s Cave,” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 13/1 (2004): 50–57. off-site wiki
- ↑ Jump up to:3.0 3.1 John A. Tvedtnes, “Review of Little Known Evidences of the Book of Mormon by Brenton G. Yorgason,” FARMS Review of Books 2/1 (1990): 258–259. off-site
As you read our answer about the truth as we understand it coming from Brigham Young, in regard to him saying there was a cave at Cumorah, understand the basic differences between our two apologetic opinions below.
FIRM Says:
We believe Brigham Young, Oliver Cowdery, Samuel Smith, Don Carlos Smith, and Hyrum Smith wouldn’t have made these stories up about the cave at Cumorah, and they are true based on information.
FAIR says:
“There are at least ten second hand accounts describing the story of the cave in Cumorah”, so they insinuate you should believe none of them for the only reason that they are second hand.
FIRM Says:
We don’t believe these stories were simply dreams or visions, but are the witnessed words as best written down by others about a literal cave in New York.
FAIR Says:
“The experience related by the various witnesses was most likely a vision.” Since they have not found such a cave they are dismissing it.
FIRM Says:
How do you know a drumlin could not have a natural or a man made cave in it? (See my blog here, where I have shown an actual picture taken in about 2009 of a man made cave in hill the NY Cumorah by a reputable friend.
FAIR Says:
“Geologic unlikelihood of a cave existing within the drumlin in New York called “Hill Cumorah”
FIRM Says:
Hill Cumorah is in New York where all the records of both Jaredites and Nephites were buried. This is the same hill where both final battles occurred. (Many quotes here)
FAIR Says:
The final battles of Cumorah and Ramah occurred somewhere in a hill in Mexico. There was not room on hill Cumorah in New York for millions of people.”
FIRM Says:
There is no need to have millions of people “on” Hill Cumorah as that speaks against the scripture saying, “we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents “around about” the hill Cumorah; Mormon 6:4. [Not “on” the Hill, around about].
FAIR Says:
The Sword of Laban and Liahona were buried in the hill in New York with the plates, breastplate and spectacles.
FIRM SAYS: Buried in the stone box of hill Cumorah in New York were the following. Gold Plates, Breastplate, Two clear stones fastened to a silver bow like a pair of spectacles. (JSH 1:35) There was no sword or Liahona, as they were in the Cave at Cumorah.
FIRM SAYS FINALLY:
At some point you must trust the combined words of prophets and leaders when they speak themselves, and you must also believe the scriptures, and most of all you should pray about what you find, as Moroni said, “we may know the truth of all things”. This is also why FIRM believes there is only one Hill Cumorah in New York and the Book of Mormon was not translated ever using a stone in a hat. No scripture says that, but here are many scriptures that say Joseph used the Interpreters and Urim and Thummim, (JSH 1:35,52,62,75*; Mosiah 28:13, 20; Ether 3:22-23; 4:5; Alma 37:21, 24-25) As you see in the painting below it is shown as the most likely way the various translations were done. (With Emma and with Oliver)
FIRM believes the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary below.
A most reliable source about the Cave in Cumorah.
1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, a most amazing book that speaks a lot about North American verification of Book of Mormon geography. Three First Presidencies and other General Authorities, share their witnesses!
The First Presidency in 1923 of Heber J Grant, Charles W. Penrose and Anthony W. Ivins and again in 1950 The Publication Committee of Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee and Marion G. Romney, assigned by Pres George Albert Smith, approved some historical information from Church History that has much to do with Book of Mormon Geography. The last edition of the commentary was also published in 1978 by Deseret Book and approved by Pres Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner and Marion G. Romney. What great strength this gives us about the truth of the existence of this Cave at Cumorah and there being 2 sets of plates as the Doctrine and Covenants says in D&C 10.
Two Discussions- Two Sets of Plates, and a Cave at Cumorah
Summary of what the First Presidency Approved in Commentary of the Doctrine and Covenants.
1- There existed two separate sets of plates that Joseph translated. The original plates found in the Stone Box at Cumorah which included the lost 116 pages and the Small Plates of Nephi that were in the Cave at Cumorah. D&C 10 says, “And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands, is engraven upon the plates of Nephi; Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi. And now, because the account which is engraven upon the plates of Nephi is more particular concerning the things which, in my wisdom, I would bring to the knowledge of the people in this account—Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, [2nd set of plates] down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained; And behold, you shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words.” D&C 10:38-42
2- There existed in Hill Cumorah a Cave in a separate place other than the stone box where Joseph found the plates. This cave was in the same Hill Cumorah and contained the Sword of Laban, Liahona, and wagon loads of plates from previous generations. [See quotes below]
3- A messenger named *Nephi, one of the 3 Nephites, took the plates from Joseph Smith in Harmony when he was finished with them. This same messenger refused a ride in David Whitmer’s wagon as Nephi was going to Cumorah, while Whitmer, Cowdery and Smith were going to Fayette.
*“I have heard my grandmother (Mary Musselman Whitmer) say on several occasions that she was shown the plates of the Book of Mormon by a holy angel, whom she always called Brother Nephi.” John C. Whitmer’s 1878 account, as recorded by Andrew Jenson [Page 37] (see his Latter-Day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia 1:283, Salt Lake City, Utah: 1901):
4- This same messenger [Nephi] showed the second set of plates to Mary Whitmer, David’s mother in Fayette before Joseph began translating this second set of plates, which would become 1 Nephi to Mosiah in our current Book of Mormon. This replaced the Book of Lehi which was the Lost 116 pages.
5- You will see below that three different First Presidencies approved of the fact there was a Cave at Cumorah and that fact is found in Doctrine and Covenants Commentary 1923.
One quote below (In Green) is from Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, about the Cave at Cumorah existing in upstate NY and wasn’t just a dream or vision somewhere in Mexico as some suggest. It was the place that all of the Nephite and Jaredite records and the Liahona, Sword of Laban and other artifacts were stored.
Here is what Orson Pratt taught about the two depositories in the Hill Cumorah. “These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)
A second bit of history (In Green Below) from David Whitmer about a messenger appearing to him and Oliver and Joseph on the way to Fayette who was carrying the plates Joseph just finished translating in Harmony. They were in a knapsack on his back. The messenger appeared to them riding in the wagon and was taking this first set of plates to the Cumorah Cave, where the messenger would deposit them. The messenger then retrieves the “Small Plates of Nephi” [D&C 10:38] from the Cave at Cumorah, and later shows this second set of plates to Mary Whitmer and then to Joseph to translate in Fayette. This set of plates replaced the Book of Lehi or the lost 116 pages which was part of the first set of plates.
Editor’s Note: It has also become a problem as some scholars insist the Gold Plates were simply a prop and Joseph Smith never translated from them. There is also a rumor many scholars insist that most of the Book of Mormon was transcribed by Joseph Smith looking into a hat with a seer stone and repeating the words on the stone he saw, to Oliver Cowdery. I hope you as a concerned member to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be aware of these possible misconceptions and stick with what the scriptures say and with what the Prophets teach. Although I believe Joseph had such seer stones, I don’t believe any of the Book of Mormon was translated using a seer stone in a hat, but was translated by the gift and Power of God, using the Urim and Thummim, or Interpreters as called in the Book of Mormon, which consisted of a large breastplate and two clear stones in the rims of a bow like a pair of spectacles. The breastplate was hidden under Joseph’s shirt and this farmers hat was used as a prop to block the sight of the spectacles from Emma Smith. See complete blog here:
Oliver Cowdery said, “I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by the book, Holy Interpreters. I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was transcribed. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the Holy Interpreters.”
Presidencies Speak of True Geography
Between 1913 and 1916 Hyrum Smith of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles along with Elder Janne M. Sjodahl articulated a commentary of the Doctrine of Covenants which was approved by these two Presidencies as accurate and approved history as contained in the D&C Commentary of 1923 and 1950.
[The Doctrine and the Covenants Commentary] “A doctrinal and exegetical commentary on the book of scripture, known as the “Doctrine and Covenants” (the “D&C”), sacred to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” The Doctrine and the Covenants Commentary by Hyrum M. Smith (Picture left)
Exegetical Definition:
The message finds its sole source in Scripture. The message is extracted from Scripture through careful exegesis. The message preparation correctly interprets Scripture in its normal sense and its context. The message clearly explains the original God-intended meaning of Scripture. The message applies the Scriptural meaning for today.
The Doctrine and Covenants Containing Revelations Given To Joseph Smith, Jr., The Prophet, with an Introduction and Historical and Exegetical Notes By Hyrum M Smith, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles. And Janne M. Sjodahl.
“Commentaries on the Doctrine and Covenants follow the pattern of many biblical commentaries, supplying the historical context, that is, the time, circumstances, and situation of the revelations. In the most recent (1981) edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, headnotes for each section have been added or enlarged, with a brief synopsis of the historical setting. Additional notes and explanations are provided by the various separately published commentaries discussed here. Commentaries written by members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are given special consideration. Others are recommended as helps to the membership of the Church to provide historical insight to their study of the scriptures.
An early (1916) and still useful one-volume commentary was written by Hyrum M. Smith, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and Janne M. Sjodahl. Doctrine and Covenants Commentary contains the text of the Doctrine and Covenants and gives historical background and commentary for each section. It is extensively footnoted with exegetical notes. The volume was later supplemented and expanded under the direction of Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee, and Marion G. Romney of the Quorum of the Twelve in 1950.” Doctrine and Covenants Commentaries Author: Garrett, H. Dean
Preface To the Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary
In the preface to the 1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, we find the following:
“While laboring in the European Missions, Elder Hyrum M. Smith, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, and Elder Janne M. Sjodahl, were impressed very fervently with the desire to prepare a commentary dealing with the revelations given by the Lord to the Prophet Joseph Smith. In their odd moments, when not otherwise engaged, during the years 1913-1916, these brethren carried on a careful research and study and prepared this volume which has met with popular favor.
For a number of years, the commentary has been out of circulation, and because of the increasing demand for it, the First Presidency instructed the Publication Committee to take the matter in hand and revise the volume ready for a re-printing. This the committee has done and after many months of labor has fulfilled the assignment given.
Since the time of the first publication many world-wide events of the greatest importance have occurred many of which have a bearing on the fulfillment of the prophecies found in the Doctrine and Covenants; these have been noted. The Doctrine and Covenants is a sacred volume of Scripture, and in the revision and preparation of the book, the members of the committee have felt their weakness in commenting on these sacred commandments and revelations coming from the Lord.”
THE PUBLICATION COMMITTEE 1950
(Note; Not the First Presidency)
Joseph Fielding Smith
Harold B. Lee
Marion G. Romney
1950 First Presidency
(Who assigned Publication Committee)
George Albert Smith
J. Reuben Clark
David O McKay
Within this Commentary are two sections which contain comments pertinent to Book of Mormon geography.
1. The first has to do with Section 9. This section is a revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania in April, 1829. Oliver had attempted to translate without success. Verse 1-2 are as follows:
“Behold, I say unto you, my son, that because you did not translate according to that which you desired of me, and did commence again to write for my servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., even so I would that ye should continue until you have finished this record, which I have entrusted unto him. And then, behold, other records have I, that I will give unto you power that you may assist to translate. . . .”
In a verse note on the bottom of page 45 we find the following:
Other records] Other Nephite records. Oliver Cowdery, if he had remained faithful, would have had the privilege of assisting in their translation. He, however, was outside the Church, because of transgression, for eleven years, and although he was again received in full fellowship, some of the blessings he had lost could not be recovered.” 1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary page 45-46
Then in a related “General Notes” on a page which follows we find the following:
“Other records” are referred to in the 2nd paragraph of page 47 below. On that subject President Brigham Young makes the following statement: [The “Cave Story” is then recited as it appears in the 1877 notation– which is a discourse by Brigham Young delivered at a Special Conference held at Farmington, Utah on June 17,1877.]
Note* That such a story would be included in the 1923 edition is significant; that such a story would be upheld by Apostles in the publication committee of the Revised Edition is also significant.
2. The second has to do with Section 84, a revelation on Priesthood. Verse 42 reads: ” . . . and even I [the Lord] have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.” In a comment on this verse we find the following:
“I have given * ** * charge concerning you] Note that the Lord in conferring the Priesthood upon the Elders present when this Revelation was given, assured them that angels had been appointed to guard them. The first Christians believed in guardian angels. . . .”
The following anecdote, which was told by David Whitmer to Elders Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith in 1878, may be retold here: [The David Whitmer story of meeting an angel “going to Cumorah” –see the 1878 notation– is then recited.]
Note* This story, like the Cave Story, reinforces the New York Hill Cumorah as a repository of the Nephite records. Since the last edition of the book would be published in 1978 by Deseret Book, these stories (reviewed by Apostles) would add authoritative weight to a New York Hill Cumorah viewpoint.
1978 First Presidency
Spencer W, Kimball
N. Eldon Tanner
Marion G. Romney
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 17 June 1877 below:
“You hear a great deal said about finding money. There is no difficulty at all in finding money, but there are a great many people who do not know what to do with it when they do find it. This is the great defect with the human family. I could relate many very singular circumstances. I lived right in the country where the plates were found from which the Book of Mormon was translated, and I know a great many things pertaining to that country. I believe I will take the liberty to tell you of another circumstance that will be as marvelous as anything can be. This is an incident in the life of Oliver Cowdery, but he did not take the liberty of telling such things in meeting as I take. I tell these things to you, and I have a motive for doing so. I want to carry them to the ears of my brethren and sisters, and to the children also, that they may grow to an understanding of some things that seem to be entirely hidden from the human family. Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants.
General Notes Page 47
“When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: ‘This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.’ I tell you this as coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it just as well as we understand coming to this meeting, enjoying the day, and by and by we separate and go away, forgetting most of what is said, but remembering some things. So is it with other circumstances in life. I relate this to you, and I want you to understand it. I take this liberty of referring to those things so that they will not be forgotten and lost. Carlos Smith was a young man of as much veracity as any young man we had, and he was a witness to these things. Samuel Smith saw some things, Hyrum saw a good many things, but Joseph was the leader.
Now, you may think I am unwise in publicly telling these things, thinking perhaps I should preserve them in my own breast; but such is not my mind. I would like the people called Latter-day Saints to understand some little things with regard to the workings and dealings of the Lord with his people here upon the earth. I could relate to you a great many more, all of which are familiar to many of our brethren and sisters.” Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 1XIX., p. 38).”1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary page 47-48 The crossed out lines above are not seen in the Commentary, I included them so you could see what was left out.
“The following anecdote, which was told by David Whitmer to Elders Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith in 1878, may be retold here:
“When I was returning to Fayette, with Joseph and Oliver, all of us riding in the wagon. Oliver and I on an old- fashioned wooden spring seat and Joseph behind us — while traveling along in a clear open space, a very pleasant, nice-looking old man suddenly appeared by the side of the wagon and saluted us with, ‘Good morning, it is very warm,’ at the same time wiping his face or forehead with his hand. We returned the salutation, and, by a sign from Joseph, I invited him to ride if he was going our way; but he said very pleasantly, ‘No, I am going to Cumorah.’ This name was something new to me; I did not know what Cumorah meant. We all gazed at him and at each other, and as I looked around inquiringly of Joseph, the old man instantly disappeared, so that I did not see him again.” Whitmer described his appearance and added, it was the messenger who had the plates [of the Book of Mormon], who had taken them from Joseph just prior to our starting from Harmony”(Andrew Jensen, Historical Record, p. 209)”. 1950 Revised Edition of the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary page 508
Quotes from D&C Commentary 1950
D&C Sec 3:19 Page 22 Commentary
The First Presidency in 1923 of Heber J Grant, Charles W. Penrose and Anthony W. Ivins and again in 1950 The Publication Committee of Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee and Marion G. Romney, assigned by Pres George Albert Smith, approved some historical information from Church History that has much to do with Book of Mormon Geography. The last edition of the commentary was also published in 1978 by Deseret Book and approved by Pres Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner and Marion G. Romney.
Notice what D&C 3:19 says: “And for this very purpose are these plates preserved, which contain these records—that the promises of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to his people;”
Notice what the Commentary from these inspired Prophets says:
19. For this very purpose) The Book of Mormon plates were preserved and translated in order that all these should be brought to a knowledge of the Savior. It may be concluded, then, that among the American Indians and the Polynesians who are mostly the descendants of the Lamanites, is also a sprinkling of the descendants of the Nephites who may have escaped the general destruction. D&C Sec 3 page 22 Doctrine and Covenants Commentary by Sjodahl and Smith
D&C Sec 5 Page 30
31. Except Thou do this] Unless the Prophet followed the instructions here given, the plates and the sacred instrument would be taken from him.
This is a remarkable Revelation. It furnishes an irrefutable proof that the Prophet Joseph actually had the plates. He promised that Martin Harris, on certain conditions, which he could easily comply with, should obtain a view of them. Such a promise, if the records had not been in existence, would have been impossible to redeem. It would have been mere buffoonery. The fraud would have been detected at once. The promise was repeated a few months later (Sec 17) to two more witnesses. Joseph had the plates and the Urim and Thummim, and this Revelation proves the truth of that assertion.
D&C 6 Page 32
According to his own statement at Council Bluffs on October 21st, 1848, Oliver Cowdery wrote the entire Book (save a few pages) as the words fell from the lips of the Prophet, “as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by that Book, ’holy interpreters.’” So that the testimony of Oliver Cowdery was as firm in 1848, two years before his death as it was in 1829, when he first accepted the gospel, although he had been outside the Church for eleven years. When Joseph and Oliver had been engaged on the Book of Mormon a few days, this Revelation was received.
1923 First Presidency
Heber J Grant
Charles W. Penrose
Anthony W. Ivins
Source: MUCH OF THIS BLOG WAS USED FROM:
A Chronology of LDS Thought on Book of Mormon Geography of the New World Statements by Church Authorities 1921 —–> 1980 Copyright 2003 by Alan C. Miner. All rights reserved
https://stepbystep.alancminer.com/node/2256
1923 Hyrum M. Smith Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, Salt Lake City: The
Janne M. Sjodahl Deseret News Press, 1923, 1932. Reprinted in 1950, 1951, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1971, 1978.
In the preface to the Original Edition, we find the following:
Before laying aside the pen, I may be permitted to express my grateful acknowledgment of the services rendered by Elder Orson F. Whitney and Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, of the Council of the Twelve, who, together with Elder Hyrum M. Smith, carefully read the manuscript of this Commentary before it was given to the printer; also to Elder George F. Richards, of the Council of the Twelve and President of the European mission, and to Elders John E. Cottam, George F. Richards, Jr., and Junius F. Wells, fellow-laborers int he British mission, for most valuable assistance.
Liverpool, May 1, 1919. J. M. Sjodahl.
Art by Val Chadwick Bagley showing these two historical narratives in pictures.
Purchase his entire book here:
