Our great friend Jonathan Neville, shared a great blog below about the History of FAIRMormon and many of the good things they do, along with a few things we disqgree with them about.
For example we believe the Book of Mormon was translated using the method Joseph Smith spoke about.”Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” JSH 1:35. We don’t believe Joseph used the stone in a hat method as FAIR does. See FAIR articles here: https://fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Seer_stones/%22Rock_in_hat%22_used_for_Book_of_Mormon_translation
We also believe that Hill Cumorah was not only the Hill in NY that Joseph found the plates, but is was also the same hill near where the final battles of the Nephites happened. FAIR believes the final battles happened somewhere in Mexico. See FAIR articles here: https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Where_is_the_Hill_Cumorah%3F
I Quote many Prophets and Apostles below:
“The United States is the promised land foretold in the Book of Mormon—a place where divine guidance directed inspired men to create the conditions necessary for the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.” Elder L. Tom Perry Ensign Dec. 2012.
“I should like to say a few words about America…. No land is without its beauty, no people without their virtues, and I hope that you who come from elsewhere will pardon my saying a few words concerning my own native land, America. I know that she has problems. We have heard so much of them for so long. But surely this is a good land, a choice land, a chosen land. To me it is a miracle, a creation of the Almighty….” Gordon B. Hinckley, Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled 1974.
“The Lord gave a divine promise to the ancient inhabitants of this favored country (the United States): ‘Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ” (Ether 2:12). Our Heavenly Father inspired the leaders of…the United States of America, that they might together, under His direction, having been raised up by God for the purpose, establish the Constitution of this country and…Bill of Rights, that by the year of our Lord 1805 [there would be] a climate where our Heavenly Father could send into this period of mortality a choice spirit who would be known as Joseph Smith, Jr.” Teachings of Thomas S. Monson by Thomas S. Monson 2011.
Lastly, Joseph Smith said while on Zions Camp in 1834 in Illinois on the banks of the Mississippi River, “The whole of our journey, in the midst of so large a company of social honest and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity…” Joseph Smith Papers Letter to Emma Smith, 4 June 1834 Page 56.
Now read Jonathan Nevilles views on these issues below.
“History of FAIR (now LDS, formerly Mormon)
In the ongoing pursuit of clarity, charity and understanding, with the objective of “no more contention” (Mosiah 1:1), I recently co-hosted a podcast about the history of FAIR, which you can see here:
Steve and I interviewed Kerry Shirts (the Backyard Professor) who was the original Director of Research for FAIR. He had fond memories of FAIR and the people he worked with there. He explains the editorial decisions that led him to leave, but that was not the focus of the interview.
The interview expanded on the brief history found on the FAIR website:
FAIR was formed in late 1997 by a group of LDS defenders of the faith who frequented the America Online Mormonism message boards. There, they defended the Church against detractors. This small group realized that they had no way of sharing their information with each other, much less the rest of the Church. As a result of this, FAIR was born. FAIR incorporated as a non-profit organization in the state of New York on December 19, 1997, as The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, Inc. The fledgling organization put up its first website in March 1998. In 2013, the group became known as FairMormon. In 2021 the name was changed back to FAIR, which now stands for Faithful Answers, Informed Response.
Whenever people get together voluntarily to pursue laudable objectives, good things can happen.
An interesting aspect of the interview is how FAIR evolved into a tool to promote the personal beliefs and theories of its management instead of offering resources to enable Latter-day Saints and other interested people to answer questions with all the relevant information.
I hope this interview and related commentary (such as this post) will prompt FAIR to apply the FAITH model of analysis by first laying out all the facts, then specifically identifying the various assumptions, inferences and theories about those facts in an organized, accurate comparison of different faithful approaches to Church history and doctrine.
That would enable Latter-day Saints to make fully informed decisions, which would greatly strengthen faith in the Restoration and thus in Jesus Christ.
Much of the content at FAIR is excellent. I’ve used it many times because the site is well organized and contains lots of useful links to original sources. I recommend it for many topics.
However, as we’ll see below, on some topics FAIR is unreliable and even misleading.
____
Scott Gordon has been President for many years. He and his team are all awesome, faithful Latter-day Saints, with the best of intentions. Plus, they’re nice people. And they claim they want to use faithful scholarship in their work.
FAIR’s content is mostly anonymous (like the Gospel Topics Essays), but it parallels the content at Scripture Central and the Interpreter Foundation. The organizations have considerable overlap.
Thus FAIR, like the others, is inexplicably dedicated to impugning the integrity, credibility and reliability of Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith regarding the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon.
People are free to disagree about the reliability and credibility of Joseph and Oliver regarding the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. Many disagreements arise because people are simply uninformed about all the relevant facts. Or they are confused because the management of FAIR, Scripture Central, and the Interpreter Foundation conflate their respective assumptions, inferences and interpretations with the facts, to the detriment of all truth seekers.
That editorial position leads FAIR, like Scripture Central and the Interpreter Foundation, to some strange rhetorical machinations. It’s a real shame that such a potentially valuable and productive resource is being manipulated by FAIR management to mislead Latter-day Saints and other interested people.
Let’s look at three examples.
_____
FAIR is an adamant promoter of SITH (stone-in-the-hat theory of Book of Mormon translation). They have a webpage dedicated to persuade readers that:
Joseph Smith used the same “rock in hat” seer stone for translating that he used for “money digging”
The page is a series of assumptions, inferences and theories, misleadingly stated as facts. It’s impossible to have a rational, credible analysis and discussion when we don’t start with the facts and then clearly state our assumptions, inferences and theories that lead to our overall hypotheses (FAITH model).
Look at this series of assumptions, inferences and theories, all stated as facts:
After the loss of the 116 pages, contemporary accounts are very clear that Joseph continued the translation using his seer stone. In later years, the term “Urim and Thummim” was retroactively applied to both the Nephite interpreters and to Joseph’s seer stone. Thus the use of “Urim and Thummim” tends to obscure the fact that two different instruments were employed.
When FAIR refers to “contemporary accounts” here, they (i) completely omit what Joseph, Oliver and Lucy Mack Smith said and (ii) emphasize statements from critics, detractors, and decades-later accounts from David Whitmer and (allegedly) Martin Harris and Emma Smith.
But they don’t spell that out.
They don’t give us all the relevant facts.
Instead, the entire page omits what Joseph, Oliver and Lucy Mack Smith said about the translation because they know those three explicitly and repeatedly said Joseph translated the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates.
This is significant because Joseph and Oliver were responding to critics (such as the 1834 Mormonism Unvailed) who were making exactly the same claims that FAIR is making today.
Look specifically at FAIR’s claim that “In later years, the term ‘Urim and Thummim’ was retroactively applied to both the Nephite interpreters and to Joseph’s seer stone.” What FAIR doesn’t tell you is that Mormonism Unvailed (Oct 1834) clearly distinguished between the “peep stone” and the “Urim and Thummim” as two separate, competing accounts of the translation. This confusion generated by critics explains why both Joseph and Oliver specifically taught that Joseph used the Urim and Thummim (aka the Nephite interpreters, aka the spectacles) that came with the plates.
But FAIR and other SITH sayers try to confuse Latter-day Saints with this modern theory of “retroactive” application of terms.
FAIR also doesn’t tell you that in the summer of 1832, missionaries were publicly teaching that Joseph translated the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim.
There are lots of other problems with FAIR’s approach to SITH, but no legitimate, faithful academic resource would purport to discuss the translation of the Book of Mormon without at least including what Joseph and Oliver taught about the translation.
It’s fine that FAIR wants to persuade Latter-day Saints to agree with Royal Skousen:
“Joseph Smith’s claim that he used the Urim and Thummim is only partially true; and Oliver Cowdery’s statements that Joseph used the original instrument while he, Oliver, was the scribe appear to be intentionally misleading.”
This ongoing, determined effort to undermine the credibility and reliability of what Joseph and Oliver taught is all-too pervasive among modern LDS scholars. Obviously, that effort is unappealing to most Latter-day Saints.
And that probably explains why FAIR refuses to explicitly state their position by informing us of what Joseph, Oliver, and Lucy Mack Smith said, and then explaining clearly why they disagree.
But that editorial approach is a disservice to all Latter-day Saints, not to mention the disservice they are giving to Joseph and Oliver.
_____
FAIR is also an adamant promoter of M2C, again just like Scripture Central and the Interpreter Foundation.
M2C (the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory) is based on the assumption that Oliver Cowdery lied when he explicitly taught it is a fact that the hill Cumorah/Ramah is the same hill in New York where Joseph found the plates.
Readers of this blog are familiar with all the historical and extrinsic evidence that supports and corroborates what Oliver and Joseph said about the hill Cumorah.
But readers of FAIR are not so well informed.
FAIR purports to offer “Faithful Answers, Informed Response.”
Instead, FAIR offers up pages of distraction, obfuscation, misinformation and disinformation on this topic. Just look at the entries on this page, for example:
If FAIR actually sought to inform Latter-day Saints to help them make informed decisions instead of seeking to persuade them to accept M2C, FAIR would implement the FAITH model of analysis.
FAIR would start by providing all the facts from Church history.
Then FAIR would spell out the different assumptions, inferences and theories about those facts that lead people to the various hypotheses, the two major being Heartland and M2C. This would include interpretations of the text, the teachings of the prophets, and extrinsic evidence.
The clarity of such a comparison would enlighten Latter-day Saints.
Then people would be able to make informed decisions.
But FAIR continues to refuse to do this, which makes their website on this topic unreliable and misleading and, ultimately, unusable.
It’s a shame that this potentially awesome resource is employed in such a disreputable manner.
_____
The third example is more specific.
FAIR has a page that discusses the 1990 letter about Cumorah from the Office of the First Presidency.
Because confusion about that letter persists, Elder Watson issued a public statement in 2022 about the context. That letter was sent to FAIR, but FAIR has refused to post it on their website.
FAIR’s refusal is a fundamental violation of basic ethics of journalism and scholarship.
But it is consistent with FAIR’s editorial approach to other topics, such as the two we discussed above, where FAIR’s management (i) omits relevant facts and (ii) promotes their theories as facts.
Very strange.
Anyone interested can read Elder Watson’s statement here:
BTW, the Museum of the Book of Mormon (MOBOM.org) offers original sources along with diverse assumptions, inferences, etc. to enable readers to make informed decisions.
Ideally, FAIR and Scripture Central would do likewise and all Latter-day Saints would find “unity in diversity.”
But that apparently won’t happen until and unless current management of those organizations (Scott Gordon for FAIR and Jack Welch for Scripture Central) trust their readers enough to provide all the relevant facts, along with a comparison of the various assumptions, inferences and theories.
Instead, their divisive, dogmatic editorial approach of enforcing their personal opinions through the guise of “scholarship” continues to plague Latter-day Saints everywhere.
I feel it very interesting that I had never heard of any pillars or stones inside the Cumorah stone box, on which the gold plates rested. After much research I have found three different descriptions of what the gold plates sat on in the bottom of the stone box. I share this for your review and information as interesting information about the contents of the stone box. I would appreciate any information from anyone who may have seen or heard anything about this subject.
I have many other blogs that speak specifically to answer in detail these questions below, if you have any interest.
Questions and Online Answers
Oliver Cowdery- Said Three Pillars?
What was actually inside the Stone Box? Did you know about the Stone Pillars? Was there also a Cave of records on hill Cumorah? Did Joseph translate one or two sets of Plates? Were the final Battles of the Book of Mormon near the NY Hill Cumorah or in Mexico? Did Joseph translate using the Urim and Thummim or the Stone in a Hat
See Above the “two stones crossways”
“The manner in which the plates were deposited: First, a hole of sufficient depth, (how deep I know not) was dug. At the bottom of this was laid a stone of suitable size, the upper surface being smooth. At each edge was placed a large quantity of cement, and into this cement, at the four edges of this stone, were placed, erect, four others, their bottom edges resting in the cement at the outer edges of the first stone. The four-last named, when placed erect, formed a box, the corners, or where the edges of the four came in contact, were also cemented so firmly that the moisture from without was prevented from entering. It is to be observed, also, that the inner surface of the four erect, or side stones was smoothe. This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph… I must not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillarswere not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstances you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.” Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835
See below three or four Small Pillars Composed of the Same Description of Cement Used on the Edges, with the Plates on Top of the Pillars.Oliver Cowdery said, “…from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph”
Lucy Mack Smith– Laying on Four Pillars?
Joseph’s mother, Lucy Mack Smith, provided some very important references to Cumorah. The one that shows up in the search results says this: “up to the time when he took <it> out of the stone <cement> b0x in the hill of cumorah which took place the mor[n]ing that Mr Knight [Joseph Knight Sr.] missed his horse and waggon”
If you read just this one, it doesn’t specify when Cumorah was named. It could have been named later, as a false tradition, the way the M2C intellectuals want us to think.
But look at the other reference to Lucy Mack Smith’s book (which you have to click on the link below the first one to read). Lucy says Moroni said this to Joseph:
“you must tell your father of this for he will believe every word you say the record is on a side hill on the Hill of Cumorah 3 miles from this place remove the Grass and moss and you will find a large flat stone pry that up and you will find the record under it laying on 4 pillars <of cement>— then the angel left him”
Art by Clark Kelley Price
Testimony of JS-“Having removed the earth, I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate, as stated by the messenger. The box in which they lay was formed by laying stones together in some kind of cement. In the bottom of the box were laid two stones crossways of the box, and on these stones lay the plates and the other things with them.” JSH 1:52
Joseph Smith- Two Stones Crossways?
Plates Laid on Two Stones CrosswaysThis picture from the LDS Museum shows the Liahona and Sword at the stone box. I do not believe there was the Liahona nor Sword of Laban in the Stone Box. They were in the Cave at Cumorah at a different location in the hill Cumorah.
The reason the Mesoamericans say the Liahona and the Sword of Laban were in the stone box is so they can dispute the fact that there was a Cave at Hill Cumorah in NY as Orson Pratt said.
“The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . .
These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depositoryof the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)
Mesoamericanists say the last battle of the Nephites and Lamanites happened in Mexico somewhere and we say it happened at the same Hill in New York.
Art by Jon McNaughton
“These treasures that are in the earth are carefully watched, they can be removed from place to place according to the good pleasure of Him who made them and owns them…. Orin P. Rockwell is an eye-witness to some powers of removing the treasures of the earth. He was with certain parties that lived nearby where the plates were found that contain the records of the Book of Mormon. There were a great many treasures hid up by the Nephites. Porter was with them one night where there were treasures, and they could find them easy enough, but they could not obtain them…. He said that on this night, … they dug around the end of a chest…. One man who was determined to have the contents of that chest, took his pick and struck into the lid of it, and split through into the chest. The blow took off a piece of the lid, which a certain lady kept in her possession until she died. That chest of money went into the bank. Porter describes it so [making a rumbling sound]; he says this is just as true as the heavens are … to those who understand these things, it is not marvelous…. I will take the liberty to tell you of another circumstance … Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates…. the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says … the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. … They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; … there is a seal upon the treasures of earth; men are allowed to go so far and no farther. I have known places where there were treasures in abundance; but could men get them? No” (Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol. 19, pp. 36-39).
Art By John McNaughton
“[Joseph] went [into] a Cave in the Hill Comoro with Oliver Cowdry & deposited those plates upon a table or shelf. In that room were deposited a large amount of gold plates containing sacred records… Joseph Smith said that cave contained tons of choice treasures & records.” Wilford Woodruff Journal, 11 December 1869
“Joseph and others… went into a cave in the hill Cumorah, and saw more records than ten men could carry… There were books piled up on tables, book upon book. Those records this people will yet have, if they accept of the Book of Mormon and observe its precepts, and keep the commandments.” Heber C. Kimball
Hill Cumorah
Were the final Battles of the Book of Mormon near the NY Hill Cumorah or in Mexico?
In 1873, apostles Brigham Young Jr. and George Q. Cannon visited the New York Hill Cumorah and wrote up an account of the same which was published. “Undoubtedly great changes had occurred in the appearance of the surrounding country[side] since the days when Mormon and [his son] Moroni had trod the spot where we stood. Still we could readily understand, even now, how admirable a position this would be [from the hilltop] for a general to occupy in watching and directing the movements of armies and in scrutinizing the position of an enemy.
Around Cumorah is yet a land of many waters, rivers and fountains [just] as Mormon said it was in his day. Our emotions on treading on this sacred hill were of the most peculiar character. They were indescribable. This was the hill Ramah of the Jaredites. In this vicinity, Coriantumr and Shiz, with the people whom they led, fought their last battle. For this great battle they were four years preparing, gathering the people together from all parts of the land, and arming men and women, and even children. The battle lasted eight days, and the result was the complete extermination of the Jaredite nation, none being left but the Prophet Ether and Coriantumr, who succeeded in slaying his mortal enemy Shiz. [Ether] and Coriantumr alone, of all that mighty race which had flourished upwards of fifteen hundred, were left. Who can imagine the feelings which he must have had on such an occasion?
From the summit of this hill, Mormon and his great son Moroni had also witnessed the gathering of hosts of the Nephites, and the dusky and myriad legions of their deadly enemies, the Lamanites. Around this hill they had marshaled their forces–their twenty-three divisions of ten thousand men each, commanded by the most skillful of their generals, all to be swept away except Moroni.
It was here that [Mormon] hid the abridgement which he made of the records [of his people], and which is know known by his name [Book of Mormon]. And it was here, thirty-six years after this tremendous battle, that his son Moroni also hid his abridgment of the book of Ether, and the record which he had made from which we learn the fate of his father, Mormon, and his other companions.
“When Joseph Smith made his claims and published the Book of Mormon as an ancient history of the American Indians, some scoffed at the idea that a major battle had anciently taken place in the local vicinity. However, evidence was soon produced that documented that this region of the country did indeed once possess a heavy Indian population, and that a terrible battle had taken place in that locality.
Writing in 1851, E. G. Squier says that in the region:
“Human bones of men, women, and children of both sexes were thrown together promiscuously by the thousands.” He notes large quantities of pottery, pipes, flint arrow-heads, stone hatchets and other implements were also found there. He further states that the ancient relics unearthed in the vicinity (which he estimates to be several hundred years old) showed considerable evidence of Hebrew origin.” (See E. G. Squier, Antiquities of New York, 1851, pp. 137-138.)
Antiquities of the State of New York. Being the results of extensive original surveys and explorations, with a supplement on the antiquities of the West..” Source
ONTARIO COUNTY. PLATE VI. No. 2.
Ancient Work near Canandaigua.
ONE mile east of the town of Canandaigua, upon the slope of a hill overlooking Canandaigua Lake, is the work here figured. It is unsurpassed for the beauty of its position. A considerable portion of the embankment has been obliterated by cultivation, and another portion by the turnpike road, from Canandaigua to Geneva, which passes through it. The parts which may yet be traced are appropriately indicated in the plan, and enable us to make out the original form of the work with sufficient exactness. In constructing the road, human bones in considerable quantities were disclosed on the brow of the hill, accompanied by the usual rude relics of Indian art. It is mentioned by Mr. Schoolcraft, that the Senecas deduce their descent from the remarkable eminence upon which this work is situated.*
Between three and four miles west of Canandaigua, on the road to Victor, there is a long, narrow trench running nearly in a direction from N. E. to S. W. It may be traced, with occasional interruptions, for some miles, and has been erroneously, but very generally, believed to be a work of art. It marks the line of a long, narrow fissure in the limestone sub stratum, into which the earth has subsided. The water which accumulates in it sinks, to swell the volume of so*me subterraneous stream. The cause of this singular fissure is worthy of the inquiries of geologists.
Judge Porter, of Niagara, mentions another ancient inclosure, similar to that above described, in the vicinity of Canandaigua; but its locality could not be ascertained. It is probably now completely destroyed.
* Notes on the Iroquois, p. 196.
PLATE VII. No. 1. Ancient Work near the City of Geneva.
ONE and a half miles west of Geneva are the traces of the old Indian ” Castle ” of Ganundesdga, built by the Senecas, and destroyed by Sullivan in 1779. Near it is a mound thickly covered over with graves. A plan and description of this work will be given in another connection. About two miles beyond, in the same direction, in Seneca township, is another work of more ancient date, a plan of which is here presented. It is situated upon elevated grounds, and coincides generally with those already described. The position, upon the east side, is protected by a steep, natural bank, perhaps sixty feet in height, which subsides into low, marshy grounds. At the foot of the bank is a copious and perennial spring. Upon the west, south, and north, the ground falls off gently ; and here we find the artificial defences. Although the whole has been for some time under cultivation, the lines of entrenchment may be followed throughout nearly their entire extent, without difficulty. The usual evidences of ancient occupancy are found within the area.
Half a mile further to the westward, upon a corresponding site, are the traces of an ancient palisaded work, which will be described in its appropriate place.
ONONDAGA COUNTY
PROBABLY no county in the State had originally a greater number of aboriginal monuments within its boundaries, than the county of Onondaga. It has, however, been so long settled, and so generally brought under cultivation, that nearly all vestiges of its ancient remains have disappeared. The sites of many are, however, still remembered ; but even these will soon be forgotten. It is a fortunate circumstance that the antiquities of this county were the first to attract the attention of observers, and our accounts relating to them are more complete than concerning those of the other parts of the State. Our principal source of information respecting their numbers, localities, and character, is the memoir of De Witt Clinton, already several times alluded to. Mr. Schoolcraft and Mr. J. V. H. Clark, of Manlius, have presented additional information ; and from these authorities we derive most of the facts, and illustrations which follow.
Ancient works occurred in the towns of Fabius, De Witt, Lafayette, Camillus, Onondaga, Manlius, Elbridge, and Pompey ; but of many of them we know nothing beyond the simple fact of their former existence. It should be mentioned that some of the townships here named have been erected within the last few years, and since the date of Mr. Clinton’s Memoir.
Those in Elbridge, according to Mr. Clinton, occurred near the village of that name, about four miles from Seneca River, upon lands then (1817) occupied by Judge Munro. They were two in number. ” One was on a very high hill, and covered three acres. It had a gateway opening toward the east ; and upon the west was another, communicating with a spring about ten rods from the fort. It was elliptical in shape : the ditch deep, and the eastern wall eight feet high. The stump of a black-oak tree, certainly one hundred years old, stood upon the embankment. The second work was about half a mile distant, upon lower grounds. It was constructed like the first, but was only half as large. * * * * The early settlers observed, in this vicinity, the shells of testaceous animals accumulated, in several places, in considerable masses, together with numerous fragments of pottery. Judge Munro found, in digging the cellar of his house, several pieces of burned clay ; and, in various places, large spots of deep black mould, demonstrating the former existence of buildings or erections of some kind. At one place he observed what appeared to be a well, viz., a hole ten feet deep, and the earth much caved in. Upon digging to the depth of three and a half feet, he came to a quantity of flints, below which he found a great number of human bones.” This disposition of the dead, Mr. Clinton conjectures, was made by an enemy ; but we shall soon see that it probably owed its existence to the practice of gathering the bones of the dead at stated intervals, and depositing them in pits — a practice common among the Hurons and other Indians around the great lakes.
Mr. Clark has described some aboriginal remains in this township, which are probably the same ones alluded to by Mr. Clinton. He says: “Upon lot 81, N. E. part, on lands now occupied by Mr. John Munro (previously the Judge Munro farm) was formerly a fort situated on high ground. In 1793 the ditch and embankment were easily to be traced. Large trees stood upon the wall and in the ditch. The work was square, except that the line of embankment toward the west curved slightly outward. The area was about an acre and a quarter. The walls were about two feet high ; the gateway opened toward the west, and was twelve feet wide. It was situated on a beautiful eminence, nearly surrounded by ravines.”
” About half a mile N. W. of this work,” continues Mr. Clark, ” on what is called the Purdy lot, was another work of larger dimensions, containing about four and a half acres of ground. It is situated upon one of the most considerable elevations of the town, and is nearly or quite square, with gateways opening to the east and west. The embankment was originally about three feet high, and an oak tree, two feet in diameter, was standing upon it. On the south side were numerous holes, about two feet deep and six feet apart. Large quantities of broken pottery and freshwater shells are still found here. An oaken chest was discovered here, somewhere about the year 1800, which contained a quantity of silk goods. The folds and colors were easily distinguishable, but the fabric crumbled on exposure. Some copper coins, it is said, were found with the silks.
It is situated on the shores of Onondaga Lake, between Brown’s pump-works and Liverpool. A fine spring of water rises near it, and quantities of relics, of various kinds, have been found within it.” Antiquities, Page 31-33
CHAPTER VI. OBSERVATIONS ON THE PROBABLE ORIGIN OP THE ABORIGINAL MONUMENTS OF NEW YORK.
“By whom were the aboriginal monuments of Western New York erected, and to what era may they be ascribed? The consideration of these questions has given rise to a vast amount of speculation, generally not of the most philosophical, nor yet of the most profitable kind. If the results arrived at have been erroneous, unsatisfactory, or extravagant, it may be ascribed to the circumstance that the facts heretofore collected have been too few in number and too poorly authenticated to admit of correct conclusions, not less than to the influence of preconceived notions, and to that constant leaning toward the marvelous, which is a radical defect of many minds. Rigid criticism is especially indispensable in archaeological investigations ; yet there is no department of human research in which so wide a range has been given to conjecture. Men seem to have indulged the belief that here nothing is fixed, nothing certain, and have turned aside into this field as one where the severer rules which elsewhere regulate philosophical research are not enforced, and where every species of extravagance may be indulged in with impunity. I might adduce numberless illustrations of this remark. The Indian who wrought the rude outlines upon the rock at Dighton, little dreamed that his work would ultimately come to be regarded as affording indubitable evidence of Hebrew, Phoenician, and Scandinavian adventure and colonization in America; and the builders of the rude defences of Western New York, as little suspected that Celt and Tartar, and even the apocryphal Madoc with his ” ten ships,” would, in this the nineteenth century of our faith, be vigorously invoked to yield paternity to their labors!
The probable purposes to which these works were applied are, perhaps, sufficiently evident from what has already been presented. Their positions, general close proximity to water, and other circumstances not less conclusive, imply a defensive origin. The unequivocal traces of long occupancy found within many of them, would further imply that they were fortified towns and villages, and were permanently occupied. Some of the smaller ones, on the other hand, seem rather designed for temporary protection — the citadels in which the builders sought safety for their old men, women, and children, in case of alarm or attack.
In respect to date nothing positive can be affirmed. Many of them are now covered with heavy forests ; a circumstance upon which too much importance has been laid, and which in itself may not necessarily be regarded as indicative of great age, for we may plausibly suppose that it was not essential to the purposes of the builders that the forests should be removed. Still I have seen trees from one to three feet in diameter standing upon the embankments and in the trenches ; which would certainly carry back the date of their construction several hundred years, perhaps beyond the period of the discovery in the fifteenth century.There is nothing, however, in this circumstance, nor in any other bearing upon the subject, which would necessarily imply that they were built by tribes anterior to those found in occupation of the country by the whites. And this brings us at once to the most interesting point of our inquiry, viz. :By whom were these works erected?
I have already mentioned that within them are found many relics of art and many traces of occupancy. These, I had ample opportunities of ascertaining in the course of my investigations, are absolutely identical with those which mark the sites of towns and forts known to have been occupied by the Indians, within the historical period. The pottery taken from these sites and from within the supposed ancient inclosures, is alike in all respects ; the pipes and ornaments are undistinguishable ; and the indications of aboriginal dwellings are precisely similar, and, so far as can be discovered, have equal claim to antiquity. Near many of these works are found cemeteries, in which well-preserved skeletons are contained, and which, except in the absence of remains of European art, differ in no essential respect from the cemeteries found in connection with the abandoned modern towns and ” castles ” of the Indians. There are other not less important facts and coincidences, all of which go to establish that if the earth-works of Western New York are of a remote ancient date, they were not only secondarily but generally occupied by the Iroquois or neighboring and contemporary nations ; or else — and this hypothesis is most consistent and reasonable — they were erected by them.
It may be objected, that if the Indians constructed works of this kind, it could not have escaped the notice of the early explorers, and would have been made the subject of remark by them. The omission is singular, but not unaccountable. They all speak of the defences of the Indians as composed of palisades firmly set in the ground. The simple circumstance of the earth being heaped up around them, to lend them greater firmness, may have been regarded as so natural and simple an expedient, as not to be deserving of special mention, particularly as the embankment, in such a case, would be an entirely subordinate part of the structure. After the introduction of European implements, enabling the Indians to plant their pickets more firmly in the ground, and to lend them a security before unattainable, the necessity for an embankment was in a great degree obviated. We may thus account for its absence in their later structures, which also underwent some modification of form, suggested by the example or instructions of the whites, or by the new modes of warfare following the introduction of firearms. Thus in the plan of the old Seneca fort of Ganundasaga, we find distinct traces of the bastion — a feature observable in none of the more ancient defences.
I am aware that the remnants of the Indian stock which still exist in the State, generally profess total ignorance of these works. I do not, however, attach much importance to this circumstance. When we consider the extreme likelihood of the forgetfulness of ancient practices, in the lapse of three hundred years, the lack of knowledge upon this point is the weakest of all negative evidence. Cusick, the Indian, in his so-called ” His tory of the Six Nations,” has, no doubt, correctly described the manner in which they constructed their early defences. ” The manner of making a fort : First, they set fire against as many trees as it requires to make the enclosure, rubbing off the coals with their stone axes, so as to make them burn faster. When the tree falls, they put fires to it about three paces apart, and burn it into pieces. These pieces are then brought to the spot required, and set up around, according to the bigness of the fort. The earth is then heaped on both sides. The fort has generally two gates, one for passage and one to the water.” ” The people,” continues Cusick, ” had implements with which they made their bows and arrows. Their kettles were made of baked clay ; their awls and needles of sharpened bones ; their pipes of baked clay or soft stone ; a small turtle-shell was used to peel the bark, and a small dry stick to make fire by boring it against seasoned wood.”
Golden observes of their defences, as they were constructed in his time : ” Their castles are generally a square surrounded with palisades, without any bastions or outworks; for, since the general peace, their villages all lie open.”*
In full view of the facts before presented, I am driven to a conclusion little anticipated when I started upon my exploration of the monuments of the State, that the earth-works of Western New York were erected by the Iroquois or their western neighbors, and do not possess an antiquity going very far back of the discovery. Their general occurrence upon a line parallel to and not far distant from the lakes, favors the hypothesis that they were built by frontier tribes — a hypothesis entirely conformable to aboriginal traditions. Here, according to these traditions, every foot of ground was contested between the Iroquois and the Gahkwas and other western tribes ; and here, as a consequence, where most exposed to attack, were permanent defences most necessary. It was not until after the Confederation, that the Five Nations were able to check and finally expel the warlike people which disputed with them the possession of the beautiful and fertile regions bordering the lakes ; and it is not impossible that it was the pressure from this direction which led to that Confederation — an anomaly in the history of the aborigines. Common danger, rather than a far-seeing policy, may be regarded as the impelling cause of the consolidation.
In conclusion, I may be permitted to observe, that the ancient remains of Western New York, except so far as they throw light upon the system of defence practiced by the aboriginal inhabitants, and tend to show that they were to a degree fixed and agricultural in their habits, have slight bearing upon the grand ethnological and archaeological questions involved in the ante-Columbian history of the continent. The resemblances which they bear to the defensive structures of other rude nations, in various parts of the world, are the result of natural causes, and cannot be taken to indicate either a close or remote connection or dependence. All primitive defences, being designed to resist common modes of attack, are essentially the same in their principles, and seldom differ very much in their details. The aboriginal hunter and the semi-civilized Aztec selected precisely similar positions for their fortresses, and defended them upon the same general plan ; yet it would be palpably unsafe to found conclusions as to the relations of the respective builders, upon the narrow basis of these resemblances alone. * History of the Five Nations, vol.I p. 9.
The entire book link is below and called,
ANTIQUITIES STATE OF NEW YORK. BEING THE RESULTS OF EXTENSIVE ORIGINAL SURVEYS AND EXPLORATIONS, WITH A SUPPLEMENT ANTIQUITIES OF THE WEST; ILLUSTRATED BY FOURTEEN QUARTO PLATES AND EIGHTY ENGRAVINGS ON WOOD : By E. G. SQUIEB, M. A.,
Remember the Interpreters came from the Brother of Jared when the Lord touched those two additional stones, (Ether 3:23) and they were sealed up and later Mosiah received them and possibly Lehi before and finally sealed up by Moroni before shown to Joseph Smith.
A Passover Setting for Lehi’s Exodus
Don Bradley Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship 34 (2020): 119-142
Abstract: Later in his life, former Palmyra resident Fayette Lapham recounted with sharp detail an 1830 interview he conducted with Joseph Smith Sr. about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. Among the details he reports that Lehi’s exodus from Jerusalem occurred during a “great feast.” This detail, not found in the published Book of Mormon, may reveal some of what Joseph Sr. knew from the lost 116 pages. By examining the small plates account of this narrative in 1 Nephi 1−5, we see not only that such a feast was possible, but that Lehi’s exodus and Nephi’s quest for the brass plates occurred at Passover. This Passover setting helps explain why Nephi killed Laban and other distinctive features of Lehi’s exodus. Read in its Passover context, the story of Lehi is not just the story of one man’s deliverance, but of the deliverance of humankind by the Lamb of God. The Passover setting in which it begins illuminates the meaning of the Book of Mormon as a whole.”
[Editor’s Note: This article is an excerpt from Chapter 7 of the author’s book, The Lost 116 Pages: Reconstructing the Book of Mormon’s Lost Stories (Salt Lake City: Kofford Books, 2019).]
This chapter examines the narrative of 1 Nephi 1−5 as a series of events occurring at the Passover season, beginning with Lehi’s theophany (vision of God) at the start of the Passover month of Nisan and culminating with Nephi’s slaying of Laban on the final day of the Jewish Passover celebration.1 Although this text comprises five chapters in the current Latter-day Saint edition of the Book of Mormon, it [Page 120]constitutes just one chapter — the original 1 Nephi Chapter I — in the first edition of the Book of Mormon and presents a single overarching narrative of the escape of Lehi’s family from destruction in Jerusalem and the beginning of their exodus to a new promised land. Read against the backdrop of the Passover season, the narrative of Lehi’s exodus is not merely a narrative of one family’s deliverance from temporal destruction but also a typological narrative of the redemption of humanity by the divine Lamb of God.
Fayette Lapham’s Interview with Joseph Smith Sr.
Joseph Smith Sr.
In early 1830, shortly before the Book of Mormon came off the Grandin press, Palmyra businessman Fayette Lapham and his brother-in-law Jacob Ramsdell called at the Joseph Smith Sr. home in Manchester to get information on the forthcoming book.2 As Palmyra residents, Lapham and Ramsdell would have heard the considerable buzz in town about the Book of Mormon but were not yet able to satisfy their curiosity by reading its pages. Instead, the two young men enjoyed the rare privilege of hearing the Prophet’s father relate the story of the Book of Mormon’s emergence, and they were given an oral sneak preview of its contents. Four decades later, Lapham published an extensive account of this interview [Page 121]in an 1870 issue of The Historical Magazine.3 Despite the lapse of years and the account’s occasional garbling of fact, Lapham’s narration is filled with firsthand information that demonstrates his reliance on a primary source with knowledge of the actual information and events, indicating that he may have written his newspaper account from detailed notes of his interview with Joseph Sr.4 Whether Lapham’s source was interview notes or an extraordinary memory, his accuracy on many obscure but confirmable details, such as the order in which Joseph Smith translated Mormon’s abridgement and Nephi’s small plates after the manuscript loss, lends credence to additional, unique details he provides.5
In relating Nephite history, Lapham’s account largely retells familiar Book of Mormon stories. Yet at key points it also adds to the existing narrative some story elements not found in the published Book of Mormon. These additional pieces of Nephite narrative, though new or unknown, fit remarkably well into the familiar, known narrative, suggesting that they are not errors but echoes of narrative from the lost pages. Surprisingly, the interview account gives nearly five times as much [Page 122] space to the period of the narrative covered by the lost pages as it does to the period that follows the lost portion. One wonders if the Prophet’s father, realizing his interviewers would not be able to read the fuller Nephite narrative given in the lost manuscript, attempted to provide more of that early narrative than the published book would provide. This seems to be the most probable explanation for the additional Nephite narrative given in Lapham’s account.
Despite his intellectual interest, Lapham was never a believer in Joseph Jr. as a prophet and
appears to have never even read the Book of Mormon. In fact, Lapham came away from his interview with Joseph Sr. believing the Book of Mormon to be a hoax, which obviated his need to read it. Given this lack of familiarity with the book, and especially its missing pages, it is unlikely that Lapham could have identified what was missing from lost manuscript narrative and constructed elements that fill those gaps and fit the pattern of Book of Mormon narrative. Source
Historical Magazine (second series) Volume 7 May 1870 Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith
“Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet, Forty Years Ago. His Account of the Finding of the Sacred Plates” (1870) [La]Fayette Lapham
Republished in Vogel, Dan (1996), Early Mormon Documents, vol.1,Salt Lake City Signature Books, ISBN 1-56085-072-8.
I think it was in the year 1830, I heard that some ancient records had been discovered that would throw some new light upon the subject of religion; being deeply interested in the matter, I concluded to go to the place and learn for myself the truth of the matter. Accompanied by a friend, Jacob Ramsdell, I set out to find the Smith family, then residing some three or four miles South of the village of Palmyra, Wayne county, New York, and near the line of the town of Manchester. Joseph, Junior, afterwards so well known, not being at home, we applied to his father for the information we wanted. This Joseph Smith, Senior, we soon learned, from his own lips, was a firm believer in witchcraft and other supernatural things; and had brought up his family in the same belief. He also believed that there was a vast amount of money buried somewhere in the country; that it would some day be found; that he himself had spent both time and money searching for it, with divining rods, but had not succeeded in finding any, though sure that he eventually would.” Lapham
Editors note: With the previous description coming from someone who did not know Joseph Smith or his father well at all, his description of “witchcraft”, “supernatural”, and “buried money”, was likely Mr. Laphams bias against such things. Since the story of Joseph Smith was hard for many to explain at that time, it makes sense that many people made up stories and words about the explanation they heard from the Smiths. In the editors opinion witchcraft good also be explaines as a miracle, or a spiritual manifestation. Finding buried artifacts or valuable items was not unheard of in Palmyra at this time. I believe Mr. Laphams descriptions could explain a very spiritual occurrance as well as a possilbe withchcraft situation.
Lapham continued. “In reply to our question, concerning the ancient records that had been found, he remarked that they had suffered a great deal of persecution on account of them; that many had been there for that purpose, and had made evil reports of them, intimating that perhaps we had come for a like purpose; but, becoming satisfied of our good intentions and that we only sought correct information, he gave us the following history, as near as I can repeat his words:
His son Joseph, whom he called the illiterate, when about fourteen years of age, happened to be where a man was looking into a dark stone and telling people, therefrom, where to dig for money and other things. Joseph requested the privilege of looking into the stone, which he did by putting his face into the hat where the stone was. It proved to be not the right stone for him; but he could see some things, and, among them, he saw the stone, and where it was, in which he could see whatever he wished to see.
Picture of Josephs Seer Stone from 2019 Ensign. Editor does not believe Josph used a stone in a hat to translate, he used the spectacles attached to a breastplaste. (JSH 1:35
Smith claims and believes that there is a stone of this quality, somewhere, for every one. The place where he saw the stone was not far from their house; and, under pretense of digging a well, they found water and the stone at a depth of twenty or twenty-two feet. After this, Joseph spent about two years looking into this stone, telling fortunes, where to find lost things, and where to dig for money and other hidden treasure.”
SEER STONE V. URIM & THUMMIM: BOOK OF MORMON TRANSLATION ON TRIAL (BOOK) $20.00 Seer Stone v. Urim and Thummim places the Book of Mormon translation on trial, presenting the latest research in one of the most comprehensive treatments of the translation process to date providing encouragement for Latter-day Saints who fear they have been “betrayed” by the translation history taught by the Church for over 190 years. Purchase Here
Lapham continues. “About this time he became concerned as to his future state of existence, and was baptized, becoming thus a member of the Baptist Church. Soon after joining the Church, he had a very singular dream; but he did not tell his father of his dream, until about a year afterwards. He then told his father that, in his dream, a very large and tall man appeared to him, dressed in an ancient suit of clothes, and the clothes were bloody. And the man said to him that there was a valuable treasure, buried many years since, and not far from that place; and that he had now arrived for it to be brought to light, for the benefit of the world at large; and, if he would strictly follow his directions, he would direct him to the place where it was deposited, in such a manner that he could obtain it.
He then said to him, that he would have to get a certain coverlid, which he described, and an old-fashioned suit of clothes, of the same color, and a napkin to put the treasure in; and go to a certain tree, not far distant, and when there, he would see other objects that he would take or keep in range and follow, until he was directed to stop, and there he would find the treasure that he was in pursuit of; and when he had obtained it, he must not lay it down until he placed it in the napkin. “And,” says Smith, “in the course of a year, I succeeded in finding all the articles, as directed; and one dark night Joseph mounted his horse, and, aided by some supernatural light, he succeeded in finding the starting point and the objects in range.” Following these, as far as he could with the horse without being directed to stop, he proceeded on foot, keeping the range in view, until he arrived at a large boulder, of several tons weight, when he was immediately impressed with the idea that the object of his pursuit was under that rock. Feeling around the edge, he found that the under side was fiat. Being a stout man, and aided by some super-natural power, he succeeded in turning the rock upon its edge, and under it he found a square block of masonry, in the centre of which were the articles referred to by the man seen in the dream. Taking up the first article, he saw others below; laying down the first, he endeavored to secure the others; but, before he could get hold of them, the one he had taken up slid back to the place he had taken it from, and, to his great surprise and terror, the rock immediately fell back to its former place, nearly crushing him in its descent. His first thought was that he had not properly secured the rock when it was turned up, and accordingly he again tried to lift it, but now in vain; he next tried with the aid of levers, but still without success. While thus engaged, he felt something strike him on the breast, which was repeated the third time, always with increased force, the last such as to lay him upon his back. As he lay there, he looked up and saw the same large man that had appeared in his dream, dressed in the same clothes. He said to him that, when the treasure was deposited there, he was sworn to take charge of and protect that property, until the time should arrive for it to be exhibited to the world of mankind; and, in order to prevent his making an improper disclosure, he was murdered or slain on the spot, and the treasure had been under his charge ever since.
He said to him that he had not followed his directions; and, in consequence of laying the article down before putting it in the napkin, he could not have the article now; but that if he would come again, one year from that time, he could then have them. The year passed over before Joseph was aware of it, so time passed by; but he went to the place of deposit, where the same man appeared again, and said he had not been punctual in following his directions, and, in consequence, he could not have the article yet. Joseph asked when he could have them; and the answer was, “Come in one year from this time, and bring your oldest brother with you; then you may have them.” During that year, it so happened that his oldest brother died; but, at the end of the year, Joseph repaired to the place again, and was told by the man who still guarded the treasure, that, inasmuch as he could not bring his oldest brother, he could not have the treasure yet; but there would be another person appointed to come with him in one year from that time, when he could have it. Joseph asked, “How shall I know the person?” and was told that the person would be known to him at sight.
Lost 116 Pages
During that year, Joseph went to the town of Harmony, in the State of Pennsylvania, at the request of some one who wanted the assistance of his divining rod and stone in finding hidden treasure, supposed to have been deposited there by the Indians or others. While there, he fell in company with a young woman; and, when he first saw her, he was satisfied that she was the person appointed to go with him to get the treasure he had so often failed to secure. To insure success, he courted and married her. When his work was ended at Harmony, he returned with her to his father’s, in Wayne county; and, at the expiration of the year, he procured a horse and light wagon, with a small chest and a pillow-case, and proceeded, punctually, with his wife, to find the hidden treasure. When they had gone as far as they could with the wagon, Joseph took the pillow-case and started for the rock.
Upon passing a fence, a host of devils began to screech and to scream, and made all sorts of hideous yells, for the purpose of terrifying him and preventing the attainment of his object; but Joseph was courageous, and pursued his way, in spite of them all. Arriving at the stone, he again lifted it, with the aid of superhuman power, as at first, and secured the first, or uppermost article, this time putting it carefully into the pillow-case, before laying it down. He now attempted to secure the remainder; but just then the same old man appeared, and said to him, that the time had not yet arrived for their exhibition to the world; but that when the proper time came he should have them, and exhibit them with the one he had now secured; until that time arrived, no one must be allowed to touch the one he had in his possession; for if they did, they would be knocked down by some superhuman power. Joseph ascertained that the remaining articles were a gold hilt and chain, and a gold ball with two pointers. The hilt and chain had once been part of a sword of unusual size; but the blade had rusted away and become useless. Joseph then turned the rock back, took the article in the pillow-case, and returned to the wagon; the devils, with more hideous yells than before, followed him to the fence; as he was getting over the fence, one of the devils struck him a blow on his side, where a black and blue spot remained three or four days; but Joseph persevered and brought the article safely home. “I weighed it,” said Mr. Smith, Senior, “and it weighed thirty pounds.“continued
No Sword of Laban or Liahona stored in the stone box at Cumorah. They were with all other records in the nearby Cave at Cumorah. See above.
Two Depositories in Hill Cumorah
“The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . .
These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)
Continued, “In answer to our question, as to what it was that Joseph had thus obtained, he said it consisted of a set of gold plates, about six inches wide, and nine or ten inches long. They were in the form of a book, half an inch thick, but were not bound at the back, like our books, but were held together by several gold rings, in such a way that the plates could be opened similar to a book. Under the first plate, or lid, he found a pair of spectacles, about one and a half inches longer than those used at the present day, the eyes not of glass, but of diamond. On the next page were representations of all the masonic implements, as used by masons at the present day. The remaining pages were closely written over in characters of some unknown tongue, the last containing the alphabet of this unknown language. Joseph, not being able to read the characters, made a copy of some of them, which he showed to some of the most learned men of the vicinity. All the clue he could obtain was from George Crane, who said he had seen a Pass that had been given to Luther Bradish, when traveling through the Turkish dominions; and he thought the characters resembled those of that Pass.
Accordingly, Joseph went to Franklin-county, and saw Mr. Bradish, who could not read the strange characters, but advised him to return home and go into other business. But Joseph was not willing to give up the matter, without further trial; and from Franklin county he went to New York city, where the most learned man then in the city told him that, with few exceptions, the characters were Arabic, but not enough to make any thing out. Returning home, he one day tried the spectacles, and found that, by looking through them, he could see everything—past, present, and future—and could also read and understand the characters written on the plates. Before proceeding to translate the characters, Joseph was directed to choose twelve Apostles, who must be men who believed in the supernatural. He would not err in cho[o]sing them, as he would know the proper persons as soon as he saw them. One was to be a Scribe. After much opposition, Joseph succeeded in finding the requisite number of believers, among them Martin Harris, who was chosen Scribe. After having made these necessary arrangements, Joseph was directed not to make the translation where there was so much opposition; hence, after procuring the necessary materials, he and Martin went to Harmony, in Pennsylvania, where they would be less persecuted, and where Joseph, with spectacles on, translated the characters on the gold plates, and Harris recorded the result.
After thus translating a number of plates, Harris wanted to return to Palmyra, taking a part of the writings with him; but the Lord objected, for fear that Harris would show them to unbelievers, who would make sport and derision of them. But Harris finally obtained leave to take them, on condition that he should let no one see them, except those who believed in them; in this he was indiscreet, and showed them to some one that he ought not to. When he next went to his drawer to get them, behold! they were not there; the Lord had taken them away.
Interpreters
Joseph and Harris returned to Harmony, and found the plates missing—the Lord had taken them also. Then Joseph put on the spectacles, and saw where the Lord had hid them, among the rocks, in the mountains. Though not allowed to get them, he could, by the help of the spectacles, read them where they were, as well as if they were before him. They were directed not to re-translate the part already gone over, for fear the new work would not correspond, in every particular, with the old; their enemies might take advantage of that circumstance, and condemn the whole. But they could begin where they left off, and translate until they were directed to stop; for, in consequence of their indiscretion, they would not be allowed to translate the whole, at present. At some future time, they would be allowed to translate the whole; and then their translation, the gold plates, the gold hilt, ball and pointers could all be circulated together, each a witness of the others.
In answer to our question as to the subject of the translation, he said it was the record of a certain number of Jews, who, at the time of crossing the Red Sea, left the main body and went away by themselves; finally became a rich and prosperous nation; and, in the course of time, became so wicked that the Lord determined to destroy them from off the face of the earth. But there was one virtuous man among them, whom the Lord warned in a dream to take his family and depart, which he accordingly did; and, after traveling three days, he remembered that he had left some papers, in the office where he had been an officer, which he thought would be of use to him in his journeyings. He sent his son back to the city to get them; and when his son arrived in the city, it was night, and he found the citizens had been having a great feast, and were all drunk. When he went to the office to get his father’s papers he was told that the chief clerk was not in, and he must find [him] before he could have the papers. He then went into the street in search of him; but every body being drunk, he could get but little information of his whereabouts, but, after searching a long time, he found him lying in the street, dead drunk, clothed in his official habiliments, his sword having a gold hilt and chain, lying by his side—and this is the same that was found with the gold plates. Finding that he could do nothing with him in that situation, he drew the sword, cut off the officer’s head, cast off this own outer garments, and, assuming those of the officer, returned to the office where the papers were readily obtained, with which he returned to where his father was waiting for him.
The family then moved on, for several days, when they were directed to stop and get materials to make brass plates upon which to keep a record of their journey; also to erect a tabernacle, wherein they could go and inquire whenever they became bewildered or at a loss what to do. After all things were ready, they started on their journey, in earnest; a gold ball went before them, having two pointers, one pointing steadily the way they should go, the other the way to where they could get provisions and other necessaries. After traveling many days, they came to a mountain, from which they were directed to get gold plates to keep their records upon, and to transfer to them those already on the brass plates. Finishing these, they resumed their journey; and, after traveling many days, came to a wide water, where they were directed to build a vessel.When this was completed, they set sail, still directed by the gold ball. After sailing a long time, they came to land, went on shore, and thence they traveled through boundless forests, until, at length, they came to a country where there were a great many lakes; which country had once been settled by a very large race of men, who were very rich, having a great deal of money. From some unknown cause, this nation had become extinct; “but that money,” said Smith, “is here, now, every dollar of it.”When they, the Jews, first beheld this country, they sent out spies to see what manner of country it was, who reported that the country appeared to have been settled by a very large race of men,and had been, to all appearances, a very rich agricultural and manufacturing nation. They also found something of which they did not know the use, but when they went into the tabernacle, a voice said, “What have you got in your hand, there?” They replied that they did not know, but had come to inquire; when the voice said, “Put it on your face, and put your face in a skin, and you will see what it is.”They did so, and could see everything of the past, present, and future; and it was the same spectacles that Joseph found with the gold plates.
The gold ball stopped here and ceased to direct them any further; the family took possession of the country; their descendants became a great nation; among them were prophets who foretold the coming of Christ, and said that, as a sign of his coming, there would be three days in which there would be no night, for the light of day would continue during three days. In process of time the sign appeared as foretold by the prophets; and when Christ left Jerusalem he came to this nation; and, finding them much more perfect and harmonious in their religious views than the Jews were at Jerusalem, he was more particular in giving them instructions as to baptism, and said they must go down into the water, and be put under the water, and come up out of the water. But, after this, they became corrupt and wicked; enmity and discord prevailed among them, to such an extent, that they could no longer dwell together; hence they divided up into tribes, were scattered over the face of the earth, and their descendants are the American Indians.
Art by Clark Kelley Price
At this point, the interview came to an end; and my friend and myself returned home, fully convinced that we had smelt a large mice.” Historical Magazine (second series) Volume 7 May 1870 Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith by Lafayette Lapham
By Ken Corbett. Nephi’s Temple on Lookout Mountain in Chattanooga, TN
After praying about this story, I personally “didn’t smelt a large mice”, but I felt the story was very interesting. I believe the Story of Laban was probably during a festival in Jerusalem (Maybe Passover), and likely Lehi or Nephi had the Urim and Thummim, as you see in the painting left. Also to hear about Lehi erecting a temple in the wilderness is very interesting. Lapham also said Joseph Smith Sr. said, “Under the first plate, or lid, he found a pair of spectacles, about one and a half inches longer than those used at the present day, the eyes not of glass, but of diamond.” Possibly a storage compartment for the glasses was inside the first leaf of the plates possibly secured like the image left with the box being a lighter wood encasing.
Buried in the Stone box, the Interpreters, Spectacles & Breastplate, Not Brown Seer Stone and a Hat.
Study and prayer are very invigorating and enjoyable to me!
Translation Method, “not intended to tell the world“
The matter of how the Book of Mormon was translated has been of considerable interest and discussion virtually from the time the book became public. This is illustrated in an exchange that took place between the Prophet and his brother Hyrum in a conference of the Church held 25 October On that occasion Hyrum said “that he thought best that the information of the coming forth of the book of Mormon be related by Joseph himself to the Elders present that all might know for themselves.” In response, Joseph Smith said that “it was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon, & also said that it was not expedient for him to relate these things &c” (Cannon and Cook, Far West Record, 23).
This blog is dedicated to Len and Kathryn Matthews who are some wonderful people
Inquire for Yourself of Truth
“Suppose a leader of the Church were to tell you that you were supporting the wrong side of a particular issue. Some might immediately resist this leader and his counsel or ignore it, but I would suggest that you first apply the fourth great civic standard for the faithful Saints. That standard is to live for, to get, and then to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
Said Brigham Young: “I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. … Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.” (JD, vol. 9, p. 150.)” Elder Ezra Taft Benson of the Council of the Twelve. Civic Standards for the Faithful Saints. Ensign, July 1972, 59.
Why are they called Interpreters and where did they come from?
The Interpreters are holy and came from God. How do we know this? Where did the Interpreters come from and why is it so important that the Prophet Joseph Smith used them to translate the plates? Remember one of the greatest stories about faith is when the Brother of Jared (Mahonri Moriancumer) saw the finger of the Lord and could not be kept outside of the veil. Jesus Christ showed himself unto Mahonri and told him to write the doings of his people and also the Lord touched two additional stones for Mahonri to seal up until after Christ would appear in the flesh. These two stones were also given to Mosiah with the same promise of being kept secret. Then these two stones were given back to Moroni who finally sealed up these Interpreters with the plates for the last time before Joseph Smith received them.
With this spiritual background of the Interpreters it is essential to understand the significance of Joseph using these “two stones” to translate the plates. In Ether we read, “And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write. For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.”Ether 3:23-24.
It was “these two stones”, not A seer stone, not A stone, not A stone found in a well, but “these TWO stones” that were sealed up to come forth to Joseph the Prophet to translate the plates. Remember the translation was done “by the Gift and Power of God”, not by any other means. Not with one stone for convenience, or because I left the Interpreters home, or I just can’t carry two stones, so I will only use one; these things did not matter because the Prophet was to do the translation “by the Gift and Power of God” only! Joseph’s single stone he found in a well was not THAT spiritual method that the Lord planned from the beginning. Man’s way is not the Lord’s way. Joseph Smith the Prophet of the Lord translated the records of the Nephites and Jaredites with the spiritual means the Lord intended with the Interpreters (two stones and a breastplate) that were provided inside that most sacred stone box on Cumorah’s hill. Joseph said, “there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34–35) The Urim and Thummim is the tool those in the Old Testament called it, and many of the saints in Joseph’s day spoke of, but the separate Urim and Thummim in the book of Mormon was only called “Interpreters” in the entire Book of Mormon. Hence the Urim and Thummim Old Testament) and the Interpreters (Ancient North America) are separate instruments, called by two various names for translation. Now where in the Book of Mormon do we hear about a single stone, or a stone I found somewhere. To equate the two is not “by the Gift and Power of God.
What lead up to the discussion between whether the Urim and Thummim or the Seer Stone were used for translation?
SITH below refers to “Stone in the Hat Theory” – M2C refers to the “Two Hill Cumorah’s theory.“
“For over 150 years, LDS Church leaders taught that Joseph Smith translated the Nephite plates with the Urim and Thummim. From the early 1830s, critics said that Joseph produced the Book of Mormon by either (i) reading words off a seer stone he put in a hat or (ii) reading a manuscript written by Solomon Spalding and edited by Sidney Rigdon.
All three alternatives were set out in the 1834 book Mormonism Unvailed (Left). When that book was released in October 1834, Oliver Cowdery responded by declaring unambiguously that Joseph translated the record with the Urim and Thummim. You can see Oliver’s declaration in the Pearl of Great Price, at the end of Joseph Smith-History, or in the Joseph Smith papers here:
You might think that Oliver’s declaration, which Joseph Smith helped write and specifically endorsed multiple times, would end the debate.
But no.
A few decades ago, some LDS historians decided it was time to deal with “all the evidence.” They started what has been called the “New Mormon History” to bring out some of the evidence that differed from, and contradicted, the traditional Church history narratives.
Among these was SITH.
Historians largely rejected the Spalding theory, so they focused on SITH vs U&T.
(Sending the Spalding theory into oblivion is one reason why everyone has overlooked the key role it played, as I’ve discussed before.)
Rough Stone Rolling (left) was a key part of the New Mormon History’s focus on SITH, but lots of people contributed. The historians in the Church History department largely embraced the New Mormon History (as well as M2C), and the result is the presentation of SITH in the Ensign (which I discussed here), the lesson manuals, the videos, etc.
Several justifications have been proposed.
Some have claimed that when Joseph and Oliver said or wrote “Urim and Thummim” they really meant the peep stone Joseph found in a well. That obviously contradicts both what they said and the historical record. Others claim Joseph used both, but that also contradicts both what Joseph and Oliver always said. Some say the “SITH sayers” were all liars who hated Joseph Smith, but that also contradicts the historical record. Besides, people on the other side just say Joseph and Oliver were liars. Stalemate.
In a recent presentation, I summarized it this way, leading to my own conclusions. (click to enlarge)
Now we will hear from the only First Hand Witnesses
5 Names of the same Instrument used to Translate the Book of Mormon
1- Interpreters (Word found in the Book of Mormon, PGP) 2- Urim and Thummim (Word found in the D&C, PGP, and the Old Testament, 4 times in THE TESTIMONY OF THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH in the preface of the BofM) 3- Directors (Alma37:21,24 “Interpreters” was changed to “Directors” in 1920 version of the BofM) 3- The Key 4- Two stones in silver bows, fastened to a breastplate 5-Two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow(Words found similar in many places)
Words that aren’t defined as the named instruments above:
1- Peep Stone 2- Seer Stone 3- Seer Stones 4- Seer’s Stone 5- Stone in the hat 6- Stone
7+ First hand witnesses who saw this Instrument.
1- Christ 2- Brother of Jared 3- Moroni 4- King Benjamin, Mosiah, Alma, Helaman and each following generational leader 5- Joseph Smith 6- Oliver Cowdrey 7- Lucy Mack Smith (Saw, felt, and described the breastplate and spectacles through a thin linen. Painting below) 8- William Smith?
Buried in the Stone box, the Interpreters, Spectacles & Breastplate. Not a Brown Seer Stone in a Hat.
Christ’s Words
Now behold, I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim, into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them. And you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened. Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun.” D&C 10:1-3
“Behold, I say unto you, that you must rely upon my word, which if you do with full purpose of heart, you shall have a view of the plates, and also of the breastplate, the sword of Laban, the Urim and Thummim, which were given to the brother of Jared upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face, and the miraculous directors which were given to Lehi while in the wilderness, on the borders of the Red Sea.” D&C 17:1 Now here is the witness by the Lord of Joseph’s translation. “And he has translated the book, even that part which I have commanded him, andas your Lord and your God liveth it is true.” (D&C 17:6)
Brother of Jared
Do you realize the 16 stones touched by Christ for the Brother of Jared were for the 8 barges, but the Lord also touched two separate stones to be sealed up for the Prophet Joseph Joseph Smith later for translation?
1 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared, (now the number of the vessels which had been prepared was eight) went forth unto the mount, which they called the mount Shelem, because of its exceeding height, and did molten out of a rock sixteen small stones; and they were white and clear, even as transparent glass; and he did carry them in his hands upon the top of the mount, and cried again unto the Lord, saying: Ether 3:1
6 And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. [16 stones] And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood; and the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was with fear. Ether 3:6parenthesis and color added.
13 And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said: Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall; therefore ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you.
17 And now, as I, Moroni, said I could not make a full account of these things which are written, therefore it sufficeth me to say that Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites. Ether 3:13,17
20 Wherefore, having this perfect knowledge of God, he could not be kept from within the veil; therefore he saw Jesus; and he did minister unto him.
21 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt not suffer these things which ye have seen and heard to go forth unto the world, until the time cometh that I shall glorify my name in the flesh; wherefore, ye shall treasure up the things which ye have seen and heard, and show it to no man.
22 And behold, when ye shall come unto me, ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read.
23 And behold, these two stones[different than the previous 16 stones] will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write.
24 For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones [2stones] shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.Ether 3:20-23parenthesis added
Moroni
4 Behold, I [Moroni] have written upon these plates the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.
5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord. Ether 4:4-5parenthesis added
“Two Stones, Fastened to a Breastplate” JSH 1:35 New Art at the 29th Expo
Joseph Smith
“34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34–35)
“With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called “Urim and Thummim,” which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breast plate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God” (History of the Church, 4:537).
Joseph Smith Again
“He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book. …
Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed. While he was conversing with me about the plates, the vision was opened to my mind that I could see the place where the plates were deposited, and that so clearly and distinctly that I knew the place again when I visited it. Joseph Smith—History in the Pearl of Great Price or History of the Church, 1:2–79.
Oliver Cowdery A View of the Contents of the Stone Box
“The manner in which the plates were deposited: First, a hole of sufficient depth, (how deep I know not) was dug. At the bottom of this was laid a stone of suitable size, the upper surface being smooth. At each edge was placed a large quantity of cement, and into this cement, at the four edges of this stone, were placed, erect, four others, their bottom edges resting in the cement at the outer edges of the first stone. The four last named, when placed erect, formed a box, the corners, or where the edges of the four came in contact, were also cemented so firmly that the moisture from without was prevented from entering. It is to be observed, also, that the inner surface of the four erect, or side stones was smoothe. This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph… I must not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillars were not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstances you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.” Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835
Joseph Smith said, “The box in which they lay was formed by laying stones together in some kind of cement. In the bottom of the box were laid two stones crossways of the box, and on these stones lay the plates and the other things with them” (Joseph Smith—History 1:52). This is why I show the picture above with two stones crossways as I feel joseph Smith is the most accurate of the witnesses. Lucy Mack Smith says 3 stone pillars here: and See my blog here about 4, 3, or two stones
Oliver Cowdery Canonized Scripture
Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’ JSH 1:75*
The most factual statement we have is the scripture above. You can’t find any scripture that explains using a seer stone anywhere.
Oliver Cowdery’s Return
“This testimony written while Oliver Cowdery was out of the Church is now in my keeping. It is a letter in his own handwriting. In October, 1848, he made his way from Tiffin, Ohio, his residence, to Kanesville, Iowa, to take up again his association with the Latter-day Saints. At a conference held there, October 21st, 1848, presided over by elder Orson Hyde, Oliver Cowdery asked for the privilege of speaking, and he said:
Friends and Brethren: My name is Cowdery, Oliver Cowdery. In the early history of this Church, I stood identified with her, and one in her councils. True it is that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; not because I was better than the rest of mankind was I called, to fulfill the purposes of God. He called me to a high and holy calling. I wrote with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, “holy interpreters.” I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated.I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the “holy interpreters.” The book is true. Sidney Rigdon did not write it; Mr. Spaulding did not write it; I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet. It contains the everlasting gospel, and came forth to the children of men in fulfillment of the revelations of John, where he says he saw an angel come with the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. It contains principles of salvation; and if you, my hearers, will walk by its light and obey its precepts, you will be saved with an everlasting salvation in the kingdom of God on high. Brother Hyde has just said that it is very important that we keep and walk in the true channel, in order to avoid the sand-bars. The Holy Priesthood is here. I was present with Joseph when an holy angel from God came down from heaven and conferred on us, or restored, the Lesser or Aaronic Priesthood, and said to us at the same time, that it should remain upon the earth while the earth stands. I was also present with Joseph when the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood was conferred by holy angels from on high. This Priesthood we then conferred on each other, by the will and commandment of God. This Priesthood, as was then declared, is also to remain upon the earth until the last remnant of time. This holy Priesthood or authority, we then conferred upon many, and it is just as good and valid as though God had done it in person. I laid my hands upon that man, yes, I laid my right hand upon his head (pointing to Elder Hyde) and he holds that Priesthood now. He was also called through me, by the prayer of faith, an apostle of Jesus Christ.
One month later in November, 1848, at another meeting Oliver Cowdery said:
Brethren, for a number of years I have been separated from you. I now desire to come back. I wish to come humbly and to be one in your midst. I seek no station. I only wish to be identified with you. I am out of the Church. I am not a member of the Church, but I wish to become a member of it. I wish to come in at the door. I know the door. I have not come here to seek precedence. I come humbly and throw myself upon the decisions of this body, knowing, as I do, that its decisions are right, and should be obeyed.
His request was granted and he was baptized and again was received in full fellowship in the Church, and in this fellowship, he continued to witness to the day of his death.” Restoration of All Things by Joseph Fielding Smith CHAPTER TWELVE, A TESTIMONY AGAINST THE WORLD Address delivered Sunday, August 20, 1944
Oliver Under Oath
The principal scribe, Oliver Cowdery, testified under oath in 1831 that Joseph Smith “found with the plates, from which he translated his book, two transparent stones, resembling glass, set in silver bows. That by looking through these, he was able to read in English, the reformed Egyptian characters, which were engraved on the plates.” In the fall of 1830, Cowdery visited Union Village, Ohio, and spoke about the translation of the Book of Mormon. Soon thereafter, a village resident reported that the translation was accomplished by means of “two transparent stones in the form of spectacles thro which the translator looked on the engraving.” Gospel Topic Essays.
William Smith
With these quotes below, I am assuming William Smith saw the Urim and Thummim and maybe even the translation process. He gives an amazing description of the entire process. I am also intrigued by William being quoted as saying, “[Joseph] always used it in connection with the breastplate when receiving official communications, and usually so when translating as it permitted him to have both hands free to hold the plates.”
William Smith’s description: “A silver bow ran over one stone, under the other, around [sic] over that one and under the first in the shape of a horizontal figure 8…[T]hey were much too large for Joseph and he could only see through one at a time using sometimes one and sometimes the other.” These stones, he continued, “were attached to the breastplate by a rod which was fastened at the outer shoulde[r] edge of the breastplate and to the edge of the silver bow.” (Tyrell Givens, By the Hand of Mormon, p.22)
Another account from William Smith: “Among other things we inquired minutely about the Urim and Thummim and the breastplate. We asked him what was meant by the expression “two rims of a bow,” which held the former. He said a double silver bow was twisted into the shape of the figure eight, and the two stones were placed literally between the two rims of a bow. At one end was attached a rod which was connected with the outer edge of the right shoulder of the breast-plate. By pressing the head a little forward, the rod held the Urim and Thummim before the eyes much like a pair of spectacles. A pocket was prepared in the breastplate on the left side, immediately over the heart. When not in use the Urim and Thummim was placed in this pocket, the rod being of just the right length to allow it to be so deposited. This instrument could, however, be detached from the breastplate and his brother said Joseph often wore it detached when away from home, but always used it in connection with the breastplate when receiving official communications, and usually so when translating as it permitted him to have both hands free to hold the plates.” (J. W. Peterson in The Rod of Iron I:3 (February 1924), 6—7.)
The earliest mention of the translation
“The earliest mention of the translation that we have is from August 11, 1829, just six weeks after the translation was completed. The Palmyra Freeman published an article that said this: By placing the spectacles in a hat, and looking into it, Smith could (he said so, at least,) interpret the characters.
This article was promptly republished in several newspapers, including the Painesville Telegraph on September 22, 1829. Another article published in Rochester on September 5, 1829, directly attributes the account to Martin Harris. “A man by the name of Martin Harris was in this village a few days since endeavoring to make a contract for printing a large quantity of a work called the Golden Bible. He gave something like the following account of it…. By placing the spectacles in a hat and looking into it, Smith interprets the characters into the English language.”
These accounts predated the publication of the Book of Mormon and the organization of the Church. Martin Harris was hardly an apostate at the time and he certainly was not trying to denigrate Joseph Smith. That’s the last thing he would do because he was mortgaging his farm to pay for the publication.
This is only one of the reasons why I disagree with those who insist the stone in the hat is a fabrication or lie. The error, IMO, is that people (including Martin Harris, David Whitmer, and Emma) who witnessed the demonstration in the Whitmer home inferred they were witnessing the actual translation instead of a demonstration. The demonstration downstairs was rapid and consisted of the Isaiah chapters in 2 Nephi (assuming that what Joseph dictated became part of the manuscript); the translation, which took place upstairs, was laborious and consisted of 1 Nephi and the non-Isaiah material from the small plates. We can see all of this in the original manuscript, as I showed in detail in A Man that Can Translate.
David Whitmer said, “In order to give privacy to the proceeding a blanket, which served as a portière, was stretched across the family living room to shelter the translators and the plates from the eyes of any who might call at the house while the work was in progress. This, Mr. Whitmer says, was the only use made of the blanket, and it was not for the purpose of concealing the plates or the translator from the eyes of the amanuensis. In fact, Smith was at no time hidden from his collaborators, and the translation was performed in the presence of not only the persons mentioned, but of the entire Whitmer household and several of Smith’s relatives besides.” David Whitmer, as interviewed by the Chicago Tribune (1885). “The Book of Mormon,” Chicago Tribune, December 17, 1885
In regards to the above quote, my good friend and associate Jonathan Neville believes it is possible that Joseph Smith showed many of the Whitmer’s a demonstration of the stone in the hat. It is a very interesting idea, but I don’t think it is correct. In my opinion I have a question about Joseph showing a demonstration to appease others curiosity and I don’t think that was necessary. I don’t think Joseph was obligated to show anyone a sneak preview so to speak. As you read my idea about the breastplate under Joseph’s shirt and the spectacles hidden with the hat as a prop only, I think it is a better possibility. As usual, you all can decide for yourself, and you can also contribute what you feel happened. None of us know for sure. Full Article Here:
Lucy Mack Smith The Key Joseph Kept Constantly About His Person
Joseph Kept the “Key” ‘Constantly about his person’. Little room and no need for seer stones. Joseph used the “Key” to translate the Book of Mormon, not the seer stones. I believe Lucy Mack and not Martin, David or Emma.
Lucy Mack Smith said, “I trembled so much with fear lest all might be lost again by some small failure in keeping the commandments, that I was under the necessity of leaving the room to conceal my feelings. Joseph saw this and followed me. “Mother,” said he. “Do not be uneasy. All is right. See here,” said he, “I have got the key.”
I knew not what he meant, but took the article in my hands and, examining it with no covering but a silk handkerchief, found that it consisted of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows connected with each other in much the same way that old-fashioned spectacles are made. He took them again and left me, but did not tell me anything of the record….
That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed nothing more nor less than a Urim and Thummim by which the angel manifested those things to him that were shown him in vision; by which also he could at any time ascertain the approach of danger, either to himself or the record, and for this cause he kept these things constantly about his person.” (History of Joseph Smith, Revised and Enhanced, p. 139, 145)
Lucy Mack Smith About the Breastplate
“After bringing home the plates, Joseph now commenced work with his father on the farm in order to be as near as possible the treasure that was committed to his care.
“Joseph kept the Urim and Thummim constantly about his person” by Anne Marie Oborn
Soon after this, he came in from work one afternoon, and after remaining a short time, he put on his greatcoat and left the house. I was engaged at the time in an upper room in preparing some oilcloths for painting. When he returned, he requested me to come downstairs. I told him that I could not leave my work just then, yet upon his urgent request, I finally concluded to go down and see what he wanted, upon which he handed me the breastplate spoken of in his history.
Editors Note: See Painting above titled, “Joseph kept the Urim and Thummim constantly about his person”by Anne Marie Oborn. Completed Sep. 2023 which is the 200 year anniversary of Sept 22, 1823 when Joseph first was shown the plates. The setting for this painting in Sept 22, 1827 when Joseph received the actual plates, Interpreters and Breastplate.
Lucy continues, “It was wrapped in a thin muslin handkerchief, so thin that I could see the glistening metal and ascertain its proportions without any difficulty.
It was concave on one side and convex on the other and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders, and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips. They were just the width of two of my fingers (for I measured them), and they had holes in the end of them to be convenient in fastening.
The whole plate was worth at least five hundred dollars. After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummim.”(History of Joseph Smith, Revised and Enhanced)
“I have myself seen and handled the golden plates; they are about eight inches long, and six wide; some of them are sealed together and are not to be opened, and some of them are loose. They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate, and are covered with letters beautifully engraved. I have seen and felt also the Urim and Thummim. They resemble two large bright diamonds set in a bow like a pair of spectacles. My son puts these over his eyes when he reads unknown languages, and they enable him to interpret them in English. I have likewise carried in my hands the sacred breastplate. It is composed of pure gold and is made to fit the breast very exactly.”Lucy Mack Smith (in Henry Caswall, The City of the Mormons; or, Three Days at Nauvoo, in 1842, 2nd ed. revised and enlarged, (London: J. G. F. & J. Rivington, 1843), 26)Other source
Mosiah and Alma and Handed Down
11 Therefore he took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, and also the plates of Nephi, and all the things which he had kept and preserved according to the commandments of God, after having translated and caused to be written the records which were on the plates of gold which had been found by the people of Limhi, which were delivered to him by the hand of Limhi;
12 And this he did because of the great anxiety of his people; for they were desirous beyond measure to know concerning those people who had been destroyed.
13 And now he translated them by the means of those two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow.
14 Now these things were prepared from the beginning, and were handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages;
15 And they have been kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord, that he should discover to every creature who should possess the land the iniquities and abominations of his people;
16 And whosoever has these things is called seer, after the manner of old times.
17 Now after Mosiah had finished translating these records, behold, it gave an account of the people who were destroyed, from the time that they were destroyed back to the building of the great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people and they were scattered abroad upon the face of all the earth, yea, and even from that time back until the creation of Adam.
18 Now this account did cause the people of Mosiah to mourn exceedingly, yea, they were filled with sorrow; nevertheless it gave them much knowledge, in the which they did rejoice.
19 And this account shall be written hereafter; for behold, it is expedient that all people should know the things which are written in this account.
20 And now, as I said unto you, that after king Mosiah had done these things, he took the plates of brass, and all the things which he had kept, and conferred them upon Alma, who was the son of Alma; yea, all the records, and also the interpreters, and conferred them upon him, and commanded him that he should keep and preserve them, and also keep a record of the people, handing them down from one generation to another, even as they had been handed down from the time that Lehi left Jerusalem.Mosiah 28:11-20
Mosiah Interprets the Jaredite Stone by Minerva Teichert.
“The Prophet Joseph Smith used the same Urim and Thummim that was “given to the brother of Jared upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face” (D&C 17:1). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote a brief history regarding the Urim and Thummim: “King Mosiah possessed ‘two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow,’ called by the Nephites Interpreters, with which he translated the Jaredite record [Mosiah 28:11–14], and these were handed down from generation to generation for the purposes of interpreting languages. How Mosiah came into possession of these two stones or Urim and Thummim the record does not tell us, more than to say that it was a ‘gift from God’ [Mosiah 21:28]. Mosiah had this gift or Urim and Thummim before the people of Limhi discovered the record of Ether. They may have been received when the ‘large stone’ was brought to Mosiah with engravings upon it, which he interpreted by the ‘gift and power of God’ [Omni 1:20–21]. They may have been given to him, or to some other prophet before his day, just as the Brother of Jared received them—from the Lord. “That the Urim and Thummim, or two stones, given to the Brother of Jared were those in the possession of Mosiah appears evident from Book of Mormon teachings. The Brother of Jared was commanded to seal up his writings of the vision he had when Christ appeared to him, so that they could not be read by his people. … The Urim and Thummim were also sealed up so that they could not be used for the purpose of interpreting those sacred writings of this vision, until such time as the Lord should grant to man to interpret them. When they were to be revealed, they were to be interpreted by the aid of the same Urim and Thummim [Ether 3:21–28]. …“Joseph Smith received with the breastplate and the plates of the Book of Mormon, the Urim and Thummim, which were hid up by Moroni to come forth in the last days as a means by which the ancient record might be translated, which Urim and Thummim were given to the Brother of Jared [D&C 17:1]” (Joseph Fielding Smith Doctrines of Salvation, 3:223–25).The Prophet inquired of the Lord, and D&C Section 17 was given in answer through the Urim and Thummim.
Alma the Younger tells Helaman to Preserve Interpreters & Director
21 And now, I will speak unto you concerning those twenty-four plates, that ye keep them, that the mysteries and the works of darkness, and their secret works, or the secret works of those people who have been destroyed, may be made manifest unto this people; yea, all their murders, and robbings, and their plunderings, and all their wickedness and abominations, may be made manifest unto this people; yea, and that ye preserve these interpreters. Alma 37:21
38 And now, my son, I have somewhat to say concerning the thing which our fathers call a ball, or director—or our fathers called it Liahona, which is, being interpreted, a compass; and the Lord prepared it.
39 And behold, there cannot any man work after the manner of so curious a workmanship. And behold, it was prepared to show unto our fathers the course which they should travel in the wilderness. Alma 37:38-39
47 And now, my son, see that ye take care of these sacred things, yea, see that ye look to God and live. Go unto this people and declare the word, and be sober. My son, farewell. Alma 37:47
Lucy Mack says Joseph gets U&T back
[Note: The essay doesn’t explain what “lost the ability to translate” means, but Lucy Mack Smith explained that Joseph had to give up the Urim and Thummim after losing the 116 pages.
Later, Joseph told her that “on the 22d of September [1828], I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the Urim and Thummim; and have commenced translating again, and Emma writes for me; but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and I trust his promise will be verified. He also seemed pleased with me, when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim; and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility.
“Soon after I received them I inquired of the Lord, and obtained the following revelation”:
Lucy Mack Smith
“Now, behold I say unto you, that, because <you> delivered up those writings, which you had power given you to translate, by the means of the Urim and Thummim into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them; and you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened;”[11] [11] D&C 10:1-2; Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1845, online at https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/143
Lucy Mack Smith reported this:
“After the angel left me’, said he [Joseph], “I continued my supplications to God without cessation; and, on the 22d of September [1828], I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the Urim and Thummim; and have commenced translating again, and Emma writes for me; but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and <I> trust his promise will be verified. The angel He also seemed pleased with me, when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim; and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility…
4. This is consistent with Emma acting as scribe after the 116 pages were lost, but inconsistent with her claim that he did not use the Urim and Thummim.
Key point: If Emma started writing the translation in the fall of 1828, the common assumption that Joseph translated the plates in 90 days is wrong. Oliver arrived in Harmony in April 1829, seven months after Joseph received back the Urim and Thummim and began translating. http://www.moronisamerica.com/changing-church-history-and-emma-smith-2/
“on the 22 of September I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the record Urim and Thummin; and have commenced translating again, and Emma writes for me; but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and <I> trust his promise will be verified. The angel He also seemed pleased with me, when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim; and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility.” https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/145 (emphasis added) Jonathan Neville Page 52-53 “A Man that can Translate”
2nd Hand Witness of Interpreters by Joseph Fielding Smith
“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22–24. These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Doctrines of Salvation,” Vol. 3, 225-26).
From here we discuss the testimonies of the three witnesses who saw the gold plates.
“Restoration of All Things” by Joseph Fielding Smith
CHAPTER TWELVE A TESTIMONY AGAINST THE WORLD Address delivered Sunday, August 20, 1944
In the Mouth of Three Witnesses
When Moroni was about to seal up the record of his people that it might be preserved to be brought forth in the last days, he added these words of counsel for those who were to be privileged to bring it forth:
And behold, ye may be privileged that ye may show the plates unto those who shall assist to bring forth this work;
And unto three shall they be shown by the power of God; wherefore they shall know of a surety that these things are true.
And in the mouth of three witnesses shall these things be established; and the testimony of three, and this work, in the which shall be shown forth the power of God and also his word, of which the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost bear record—and all this shall stand as a testimony against the world at the last day.
And if it so be that they repent and come unto the Father in the name of Jesus, they shall be received into the kingdom of God.
And now, if I have no authority for these things, judge ye; for ye shall know that I have authority when ye shall see me, and we shall stand before God at the last day. Amen.
Strength of the Testimony
What a bold, dangerous thing it would have been for Joseph Smith to have made such a statement as this to the world, if the Book of Mormon were a fraud. He would have taken a risk where the chances for success would have been all against him. The calling of three witnesses to testify with him to the fraud, and to declare that they would have the privilege of testifying by the “power of God,” which in this case meant in the presence of an angel sent from the Almighty, was so bold, so unlikely to succeed if not true, that even a fool would have hesitated to present such a thing. Joseph Smith was no fool, even his bitter enemies gave him credit for being not that.
Among the difficulties confronting him would be, first, that there would be so many errors open to detection in the scheme, that it could not have succeeded; second, he would never have dared to permit any one of these witnesses to become estranged from him and he would have been subject to their dictation; third, to hold them he never could have permitted any one of the three to be estranged from the others, and fourth, the conspirators never could have hung together in the face of the persecutions and hatred which followed them, for under the stress of such opposition as they received, the story would unquestionably have fallen apart and been exposed.
The Witnesses True to Testimony
We have considered the nature of the testimony these three men, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer and Martin Harris gave to the world. How positively, frankly and without any coercion, they declared that in the presence of the angel they beheld the plates, examined the writing upon them, and heard the voice of God speaking to them from the heavens commanding them to bear record of what they had seen and heard. The question now is, were these three men true to that testimony under all circumstances and all the days of their lives? The answer to this question is one of the greatest weight, carrying a responsibility which cannot be easily ignored, and which leaves every soul unto whom their testimony comes, subject to the warning of Nephi: “Wo be unto him that rejecteth the word of God!” For if the testimony of these three is true, no man can reject it without rejecting the word of God.
The Witnesses Estranged
For a number of years, after the publication of the Book of Mormon, and the organization of the Church, these three men were faithful, earnest members of the Church, sustaining and fellowshipping with Joseph Smith. There came a time, however, because of persecution and misunderstanding when all three of these men were estranged from Joseph Smith. Two of them, Oliver Cowdery, who had been a witness with Joseph Smith on many occasions of the opening of the heavens, and David Whitmer, were severed from the Church. The third man, Martin Harris, just drifted away for a season from the body of the Church. Joseph Smith not only permitted these men to take this course, but sustained the councils of the Church when action was taken. For eleven years Oliver Cowdery was estranged from Joseph Smith and the Church and during that time he went into the practice of law, but always during those years he bore the same testimony in relation to his association with Joseph Smith and his heavenly manifestations. After the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery felt his way back to the Church. In March, 1846, while he was out of the Church, he wrote to his brother-in-law, Phineas Young, as follows:
I have cherished a hope, and that one of my fondest, that I might leave such a character as those who might believe in my testimony, after I should be called hence, might do so, not only for the sake of the truth, but might not blush for the private character of the man who bore that testimony. I have been sensitive on this subject, I admit, but I ought to be so, you would be, under the circumstances, had you stood in the presence of John with our departed brother, Joseph, to receive the Lesser Priesthood, and in the presence of Peter, to receive the greater, and looked down through time, and witnessed the effects these two must produce—you would feel what you have never felt, were wicked men conspiring to lessen the effects of your testimony to man, after you have gone to your long-sought rest.
This testimony written while Oliver Cowdery was out of the Church is now in my keeping. It is a letter in his own handwriting. In October, 1848, he made his way from Tiffin, Ohio, his residence, to Kanesville, Iowa, to take up again his association with the Latter-day Saints. At a conference held there, October 21st, 1848, presided over by elder Orson Hyde, Oliver Cowdery asked for the privilege of speaking, and he said:
Oliver Cowdery’s Return
“Friends and Brethren: My name is Cowdery, Oliver Cowdery. In the early history of this Church, I stood identified with her, and one in her councils. True it is that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; not because I was better than the rest of mankind was I called, to fulfill the purposes of God. He called me to a high and holy calling. I wrote with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, “holy interpreters.” I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the “holy interpreters.” The book is true. Sidney Rigdon did not write it; Mr. Spaulding did not write it; I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet. It contains the everlasting gospel, and came forth to the children of men in fulfillment of the revelations of John, where he says he saw an angel come with the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. It contains principles of salvation; and if you, my hearers, will walk by its light and obey its precepts, you will be saved with an everlasting salvation in the kingdom of God on high. Brother Hyde has just said that it is very important that we keep and walk in the true channel, in order to avoid the sand-bars. The Holy Priesthood is here. I was present with Joseph when an holy angel from God came down from heaven and conferred on us, or restored, the Lesser or Aaronic Priesthood, and said to us at the same time, that it should remain upon the earth while the earth stands. I was also present with Joseph when the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood was conferred by holy angels from on high. This Priesthood we then conferred on each other, by the will and commandment of God. This Priesthood, as was then declared, is also to remain upon the earth until the last remnant of time. This holy Priesthood or authority, we then conferred upon many, and it is just as good and valid as though God had done it in person. I laid my hands upon that man, yes, I laid my right hand upon his head (pointing to Elder Hyde) and he holds that Priesthood now. He was also called through me, by the prayer of faith, an apostle of Jesus Christ.
One month later in November, 1848, at another meeting Oliver Cowdery said:
Brethren, for a number of years I have been separated from you. I now desire to come back. I wish to come humbly and to be one in your midst. I seek no station. I only wish to be identified with you. I am out of the Church. I am not a member of the Church, but I wish to become a member of it. I wish to come in at the door. I know the door. I have not come here to seek precedence. I come humbly and throw myself upon the decisions of this body, knowing, as I do, that its decisions are right, and should be obeyed.
His request was granted and he was baptized and again was received in full fellowship in the Church, and in this fellowship, he continued to witness to the day of his death.
It must be a strange being with a soul not susceptible to penetration by simple facts, who cannot see in the story of Oliver Cowdery the sincerity of his testimony. When we stop to think that while absent from his former associates and not fellowshipping with them, he still maintained and defended his testimony, and then in the darkest hour of the history of the Church, when all the world felt that the Mormon people had gone from Nauvoo to their destruction, for they could not exist under the circumstances in their drivings and poverty, it was at that very hour that Oliver Cowdery sought out these exiled refugees and asked if he could join them again. He was aware of the fact that in doing so he would have to share their distress and poverty. He knew that they had been driven from their homes for the sake of their religion. Such scenes were not new to him; in the early days he had passed through such scenes and he was now willing to endure such scenes again. That was not the action of a man guilty of perpetrating a fraud.
David Whitmer Maintains His Testimony
David Whitmer likewise retained the integrity of his story after he was excommunicated from the Church. Some years after the death of Joseph Smith, he gathered about him a group of followers and taught them, as he understood it, the gospel. He prepared an address which he dedicated to all believers in Christ. In this publication he maintained his story in the most emphatic manner. Thousands of persons out of curiosity and for information, interviewed him, and all received the same story—that the angel appeared to him and the others and revealed the plates of the ancient record. There are hundreds of people still living who heard his testimony and were convinced that he told them the truth. March 19, 1881, in the spirit of indignation, because his veracity had been questioned, David Whitmer published the following statement in the Richmond “Conservator,” the paper of his home town:
Unto all nations, kindred, tongues and people unto whom these presents shall come:
It having been represented by one John Murphy of Polo (Caldwell County), Missouri, that I had in a conversation with him last summer, denied my testimony as one of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon….
To the end, therefore, that he may understand me now if he did not then, and that the world may know the truth, I wish now, standing as it were, in the very sunset of life, and in the fear of God, once for all to make this public statement:
That I have never at any time denied that testimony or any part thereof, which has so long since been published with that book, as one of the three witnesses.
Those who know me best, will know that I have always adhered to that testimony. And that no man may be misled or doubt my present views in regard to the same, I do now again affirm the truth of all my statements as then made and published.
He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear; it was no delusion. What is written is written and he that readeth let him understand. And if any man doubt, should he not carefully and honestly read and understand the same before presuming to sit in judgment, and condemning the light which shineth in darkness, and showeth the way of eternal life, as pointed out by the hand of God?
In the Spirit of Christ who hath said follow thou me, for I am the life, the light and the way, I submit this statement to the world, God in whom I trust being my Judge, as to the sincerity of my motives and the faith and hope that is in me of eternal life.
My sincere desire is that the world may be benefited by the plain and simple statement of the truth.
None of these 3 ever saw the Interpreters or the Two Stones attached in the two rims of a bow. And non of them saw Joseph’s Translation methods. Only Martin Harris had a curtain between him and Joseph as he was the scribe for Joseph for the lost 116 pages. These 3 were at best, 2nd or 3rd hand witness of something heard about the translation. The only 3 eyewitnesses of all three items was Joseph, Oliver and Lucy Mack Smith who touched and felt all articles under a linen cloth in 1827 according to her journal.
And all the honor be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
David Whitmer
Richmond, Missouri, March 19, A.D. 1881.
The original document which I have just read is now in my possession. I obtained it from the family of David Whitmer. This document bears the endorsements of leading citizens of Richmond, Ray County, Missouri, as follows:
We, the undersigned, citizens of Richmond, Ray County, Missouri, where David Whitmer, Sr., has resided since the year, A.D. 1838, certify that we have been long and intimately acquainted with him, and know him to be a man of the highest integrity, and of undoubted truth and veracity—Given at Richmond, Missouri, this March 19, A.D. 1881.
A. W. Doniphan George W. Dunn, Judge of the Fifth Judicial Circuit T. D. Woodson, President, Ray County Savings Bank Jacob O. Child, Editor of “Conservator” H. C. Garner, Cashier Ray County Savings Bank W. A. Holman, County Treasurer J. S. Hughes, Banker, Richmond, Missouri James Hughes, Banker, Richmond, Missouri D. P. Whitmer, Attorney at Law James W. Black, Attorney at Law L. C. Cantwell, Postmaster, Richmond, Missouri George I. Wassen, Mayor James A. Davis, Probate Judge and Presiding Judge, Ray County Court George E. Trigg, County Clerk W. W. Mosby, M.D. Thomas McGinnis, Late Sheriff, Ray CountyW. R. Holman, Furniture Merchant J. P. Queensbury, Merchant Lewis Slaughter, Recorder of Deeds George W. Buchannan, M.D. A. K. Reyburn
The following comment was also published in the Richmond “Conservator”:
Elsewhere we publish a letter from David Whitmer, Sen., an old and well known citizen of Ray, as well as an endorsement of his standing as a man, signed by a number of the leading citizens of this community, in reply to some unwarranted aspersions made upon him.
There is no doubt that Mr. Whitmer, who was one of the Three Witnesses of the authenticity of the gold plates, from which he asserts that Joe Smith translated the Book of Mormon (a facsimile of the characters he now has in his possession with the original records) is firmly convinced of its divine origin, and while he makes no effort to obtrude his views or belief, he simply wants the world to know that so far as he is concerned there is no “variableness or shadow of turning.” Having resided here for a half of a century, it is with no little pride that he points to his past record, with the consciousness that he has done nothing derogatory to his character as a citizen and a believer in the Son of Mary to warrant such an attack on him, come from what source it may, and now, with the lilies of seventy-five winters crowning him like an aureole, and his pilgrimage on earth well nigh ended, he reiterates his former statement and will leave futurity to solve the problem that he was but a passing witness of its fulfillment.
Martin Harris
Martin Harris, the third witness, died a faithful member of the Church, at Clarkston, Cache County, July 10, 1875, nearly ninety-three years of age, firm in his testimony, which was borne for the last time on earth but a few hours before he passed away.
Martin may have used a curtain but I don;t believe any other scribe did. I believe Joseph had the breastplate under his shirt and the glasses were hidden by a farmers hat, as you see below.
These men were not deceivers; they were not deceived, and their united testimony will stand as a condemnation against an unbelieving world, at the last day.” Restoration of all things CHAPTER TWELVE A TESTIMONY AGAINST THE WORLD Address delivered Sunday, August 20, 1944 by Joseph Fielding Smith
The Witnesses movie is generating a lot of discussion on social media because of SITH (the stone-in-the-hat). The movie adopts the approach taken by Mormonism Unvailed, the 1834 anti-Mormon book that claimed Joseph never even used the plates but produced the Book of Mormon by reading a “peep stone” he put in a hat. John Dehlin (picture right) of Mormon Stories is delighted. SITH is one of his key points, as he explains on TikTok (31.7k views in one day, 800 views on twitter) https://www.tiktok.com/@drjohndehlin/video/6973701578431778053?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1
Stone in a Hat Theory. (SITH) We don’t believe this SITH method ever happened for translation of the Book of Mormon.
There’s no pushback against SITH from any Church leaders or prominent scholars. Instead, Kawku promotes SITH as a feature, not a bug. Our scholars fall all over themselves trying to justify SITH (much as they did with the Hoffman documents decades ago). Like other intellectual trends, we can see the origins of SITH among LDS academics even before Rough Stone Rolling came out, but that book pushed it into the mainstream. I think Rough Stone Rolling is an exceptional, timely, and useful book, but it portrayed some interpretations as fact and overlooked other facts, as I indicated in Part 1 of my summary, here: http://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/p/rough-stone-rolling-analysis-part-1.html.
The words “cumorah” and “Lamanites” are not present in the book Saints! We find that shocking.
Saints and the Gospel Topics Essay on Book of Mormon Translation formalized SITH, mainly by ignoring historical sources that corroborate what Joseph and Oliver taught and instead relying on sources that, on a surface level, contradicted what Joseph and Oliver taught. The Essay never even quotes what Joseph and Oliver said about the translation with the Urim and Thummim. Instead, it focuses on the theories of various academics.
The Urim and Thummim is essentially de-correlated. No one is claiming any revelation about what happened in Church history to overturn what Joseph and Oliver taught. The new narrative is based purely on revisionist historical interpretation of the same facts everyone has known for over 150 years. People today, looking at some historical evidence while ignoring other evidence, thereby conclude Joseph’s contemporaries and successors were wrong. This is the same process by which Cumorah was de-correlated. Consequently, SITH has become the prevailing narrative in our day. And that’s great for those who believe it. If you think it’s awesome that the Book of Mormon is the product of words appearing on a stone in a hat, and not a translation of the ancient Nephite plates (as Joseph and Oliver claimed), good for you. I’m not going to say you’re wrong. People can and will believe whatever they want.
But it seems likely (and statistics indicate) that most people will not accept that narrative, whether they are inside or outside the Church. In 1834, Mormonism Unvailed promoted SITH because the author knew it undermined the credibility of Joseph and Oliver. Detractors today promote SITH for the same reason. _____There are alternative interpretations of the evidence.
For example, the Stoddards and others reject SITH by saying David Whitmer, Emma, Martin Harris etc. were liars. (Rian Nelson believes these three did possibly lie, or had a convenient fact left out). However, that plays into the critical narrative that the witnesses were dishonest. This is the mirror image of the SITH/M2C approach; i.e., we can believe some of what the witnesses said, but we have to reject other things they said, based on what we want to be true. Similarly, our M2C scholars (M2C=Mesoamerican/Two-Cumorahs theory) reject what the witnesses said about Cumorah because they want Cumorah to be in Mexico to fit their theories. But they still expect people to believe SITH based on what the witnesses said. It’s transparent cherry picking.
Now you see why I’ve been saying that: Interpreter=CESLetter=FAIRLDS=MormonStories=BookofMormonCentral=BYUStudies.
They’ve all reached a consensus that the prophets are wrong any time they disagree with the prophets.
If they disagree, they disagree only with regard to which things the prophets were wrong about–a distinction without a difference._____
I realize there are numerous interpretations of the evidence, ranging from Joseph seeing the words on a stone (or in vision) to Joseph composing, memorizing or reading the text. Some even say that when Joseph and Oliver testified about the Urim and Thummim, they deliberately misled people because they knew they were really referring to the stone Joseph found in a well; i.e., they used misleading terminology.
People can believe whatever they want, and that’s fine with me. But I’ve looked at all these explanations and none of them make sense to me. That’s why I looked at the evidence for myself. So far, the only explanation I’m aware of that reconciles Joseph and Oliver as credible, and David and Emma as credible, is the demonstration narrative I set out in A Man that Can Translate. (Rian Nelson does not believe in thedemonstration level of Jonathan Neville).
I’m completely open to any better explanations. (Here is the editors explanation. Joseph kept the Breastplate “upon his person constantly” Lucy Mack Smith. If you know of one, email me at lostzarahemla@gmail. (Jonathan and I have spoke about our difference). There are still some Latter-day Saints who believe what the prophets have taught about both the translation and the historicity of the Book of Mormon, including the New York Cumorah. This is not “blind faith” or “blind obedience.” This is recognizing that the people involved with the events are more credible than arm-chair commentators distant in time and space. It is also recognizing science- and fact-based, rational analysis supports and corroborates the teachings of the prophets.” Source: About Central America(Visited 20 times, 14 visits today) http://www.moronisamerica.com/witnesses-sith-and-the-tipping-point/
How the Book Saints frames the Translation
I first believe Personal Revelation. Then I trust Canonized Scripture, Then I trust the words of the Prophets. “Saints” is a feel good book, I enjoy it but don’t believe everything in it. Historians make mistakes.
With Emma’s father around, translating would not be easy, but Joseph tried his best. Assisted by Emma, he copied many of the strange characters from the plates to paper.10 Then, for several weeks, he tried to translate them with the Urim and Thummim. The process required him to do more than look into the interpreters. He had to be humble and exercise faith as he studied the characters.11
A few months later, Martin came to Harmony. He said he felt called by the Lord to travel as far as New York City to consult experts in ancient languages. He hoped they could translate the characters.12
Joseph copied several more characters from the plates, wrote down his translation, and handed the paper to Martin. He and Emma then watched as their friend headed east to consult with distinguished scholars.13
The historians claim that Joseph sent the copied characters to Anthon to get them translated because he was unable to translate them. He merely “tried” to do it. Of course, that directly contradicts JS-History 1:62.
62 By this timely aid was I enabled to reach the place of my destination in Pennsylvania; and immediately after my arrival there I commenced copying the characters off the plates. I copied a considerable number of them, and by means of the Urim and Thummim I translated some of them, which I did between the time I arrived at the house of my wife’s father, in the month of December, and the February following.
(Joseph Smith—History 1:62)
Read the first paragraph. Clearly states that Joseph “spent considerable time and effort becoming familiar with the language of the plates and learning how to translate.”
“I then continued <said> Joseph my suplications to God without cessation that his mercy might again be exercised towards me and on the 22 of september I had the Joy and satisfaction of again receiving the record Urim and Thummin into my possession and I have commenced translating and Emma writes for me now but the angel said that if I got the plates again that the Lord woul[d] send some one to write for me and I trust that if it will be so. he also said that the <he> angel seemed <was> rejoiced when he gave him <me> back the plates <urim and Thummim> and said that he <God> was pleased with his <my> faithfulness and humility also that the Lord was pleased with him and loved him <me> for his <my> penitence and dilligence in prayer in the which he <I> had performed his duty so well as to receive the record <urim and Thummin> and be <was> able to enter upon the work of translation again.” (emphasis added) https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/91
Lucy’s History 1845 revised the passage but kept the essence of her original history on this point.
Seer Stone v. Urim and Thummim places the Book of Mormon translation on trial, presenting the latest research in one of the most comprehensive treatments of the translation process to date providing encouragement for Latter-day Saints who fear they have been “betrayed” by the translation history taught by the Church for over 190 years.
Did Joseph Smith study and master the Nephite language? Did the Prophet tutor some of the early Brethren in ancient Nephite characters?
Did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon using a dark seer stone in a hat?
Why are progressive historians creating a new history using sources from a man who vowed to wash his hands in the blood of Joseph Smith, while boasting that he had deceived the Prophet and his God?
Has The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints covered up its history for nearly 200 years? Length: 240 pages
“Traditionalists believe that progressives are destined to inherit ignorance because they reject revelation. Progressives believe that traditionalists are mired in ignorance because they do not fully accept and embrace the philosophies and teachings of the learned. Regardless of which position one takes, nearly all agree—an unbridgeable gulf separates the two.” FAITH CRISIS: Did the LDS Church Lie? (Part 1) We Were NOT Betrayed! By James and Hannah Stoddard
“In this respect the testimony of Lorenzo Brown about the preparation the Prophet made for his translation of the Bible may be instructive. He records the Prophet as saying: “After I got through translating the Book of Mormon, I took up the Bible to read with the Urim and Thummim. I read the first chapter of Genesis and I saw the things as they were done. I turned over the next and the next, and the whole passed before me like a grand panorama; and so on chapter after chapter until I read the whole of it. I saw it all!“ (as cited in Matthews, Plainer Translation, 25).” The Process of Translating the Book of Mormon Joseph Fielding McConkie (Professor of Ancient Scripture, BYU) Craig J. Ostler (Assistant Professor of Church History and Doctrine, BYU)
As the nay-sayers explain Joseph used the seer stone because the U&T was taken away, how would they explain Joseph using the U&T to translate the Bible and the other sections of the D&C?
“Not only did Joseph Smith use the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon, but he also used it to receive revelation from God. Specifically, Doctrine and Covenants sections 3, 6, 11, and 14, 15,16, were all given through the Urim and Thummim. (See headings to these sections) We learn from the Doctrine and Covenants that “the place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.” In addition, “this earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon.” And each person who receives the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17 will be able to use the Urim and Thummim (D&C 130:8–10).” by Jay A. Parry and Larry E. Morris, adapted from “The Mormon Book of Lists” | Jan. 18, 2019 LDS Living
The earliest known description of the process of translating the Book of Mormon is found in an article titled “History of the Mormonites,” published 9 June 1831, in Kirtland, Ohio. The writer, Josiah Jones, claims as his source the first Latter-day Saint missionaries to that territory Elders Cowdery, Pratt, Whitmer, and Peterson, from whom he learned that the book was translated by “looking into a stone or two stones, when put into a dark place, which stones he said were found in the box with the plates. They affirmed while [Joseph] looked through the stone spectacles another sat by and wrote what he told them, and thus the book was written. . . .
“A few days after these men appeared again, a few of us went to see them and Cowdery was requested to state how the plates were found, which he did. He stated that Smith looked onto or through the transparent stones to translate what was on the plates. I then asked him if he had ever looked through the stones to see what he could see in them; his reply was that he was not permitted to look into them. I asked him who debarred him from looking into them; he remained sometime in silence, then said that he had so much confidence in his friend Smith, who told him that he must not look into them, that he did not presume to do so lest he should tempt God and be struck dead” (Allen, “Historian’s Corner,” 308). As told in: The Process of Translating the Book of Mormon Joseph Fielding McConkie (Professor of Ancient Scripture, BYU) Craig J. Ostler (Assistant Professor of Church History and Doctrine, BYU)
In describing the quote from Josiah Jones, Joseph looked through one or two stones, he didn’t mention a hat, the stones were found in the box with the plates, and he looked through stone spectacles, it is clear that while Mr. Jones had never seen the U&T he described the process as a U&T not as a single seer stone. See the incredible article below.
The Best Historical and Research Article about the Urim and Thummim vs. the Seer Stone
The Process of Translating the Book of Mormon Joseph Fielding McConkie (Professor of Ancient Scripture, BYU) Craig J. Ostler (Assistant Professor of Church History and Doctrine, BYU)
Artifacts, History and Archaeology Provide Strong Evidence for the Book of Mormon Near Cumorah!
There is a belief that the Iroquois Nation played an important role in the life of Joseph Smith. He lived in an area with many Iroquois chiefs and may have even met many of these great men. Ganargua Creek (Mud Creek) was a primary stopover point for the Iroquois on their trade routes. Joseph Smith also had an interest in the creek after hearing a speech from Seneca Indian Chief Red Jacket at Palmyra in 1822.
Many historians believe that Iroquoian ideas of federalism, and balance of power directly influenced the US system of government. Benjamin Franklin admired native American government structures. In 1744, Canassatego advocated in Washington the federal union of the American colonies. See Here
The Iroquois or Haudenosaunee (People of the Longhouse) are a historically powerful northeast Native American confederacy. They were known during the colonial years to the French as the Iroquois League, and later as the Iroquois Confederacy, and to the English as the Five Nations, comprising the Mohawk, Onondaga, Oneida, Cayuga, and Seneca. After 1722, they accepted the Tuscarora people from the Southeast into their confederacy and became known as the Six Nations.
Handsome Lake
“The Onondagas: These have special interest… this warrior, Zelph, was an Onondaga, as well as a “white” Lamanite, and that the Onondagas (of New York), consequently must be of Lamanite lineage.” J.M. Sjodahl, An Introduction to the Study of the Book of Mormon
“Contrary, then, to widespread assumptions during Joseph Smith’s lifetime that the Onondaga migrated to the New York region, it becomes clear that they originated here as a small, narrowly localized amalgamation of a few villages near Onondaga Lake, during the century before Columbus’ discovery of America” Beauchamp’s Aboriginal Place Names of New York;
County of Onondaga
DeWitt Clinton
PROBABLY no county in the State had originally a greater number of aboriginal monuments within its boundaries, than the county of Onondaga. It has, however, been so long settled, and so generally brought under cultivation, that nearly all vestiges of its ancient remains have disappeared. The sites of many are, however, still remembered ; but even these will soon be forgotten. It is a fortunate circumstance that the antiquities of this county were the first to attract the attention of observers, and our accounts relating to them are more complete than concerning those of the other parts of the State. Our principal source of information respecting their numbers, localities, and character, is the memoir of De Witt Clinton, already several times alluded to. Mr. Schoolcraft and Mr. J. V. H. Clark, of Manlius, have presented additional information; and from these authorities we derive most of the facts, and illustrations which follow.
Ancient works occurred in the towns of Fabius, De Witt, Lafayette, Camillus, Onondaga, Manlius, Elbridge, and Pompey ; but of many of them we know nothing beyond the simple No. 4), which has been very nearly obliterated by the plough. The sections indicated in the engraving are yet quite distinct ; nor can the parts supplied differ very materially from the original lines. Perhaps no work in the State has more decided evidences of aboriginal occupation. The entire area is covered with traces of ancient habitations, and with relics of art pottery, ornaments, and implements. Exterior to the walls, in all directions, but particularly on the level grounds between the two works, the same indications .are abundant. Indeed, the artificial accumulations are so great as materially to augment the fertility of the soil. Caches have been observed here, in some of which the present proprietor of the grounds has found a number of bushels of parched corn, carbonized by long exposure. It is scattered over the surface, and after rains may be collected in considerable quantities. Here, too, have been found skeletons buried according to the usual custom.
The aboriginal population must have been very large at this spot, which, both in respect of soil and the close proximity of springs and pure streams, affords a most beautiful site for an Indian village.
Mr. Schoolcraft states, on the authority of Le Fort, late chief of the Onondagas, that Ondiaka, the great chronicler of his tribe, informed him, on his last journey to Oneida, that in ancient times, before they had fixed their settlements at Onondaga, and before the Five Nations were confederated, the Onondagas lived below Jamesville and in Pompey ; that in consequence of continued warfare with other tribes, they removed their villages frequently; and that, after the confederation, their fortifications being no longer necessary, they were allowed to fall into decay. This, he believed, was the origin of the ancient works at these points. Notes on the Iroquois, p. 442. Aboriginal Monuments of the State of New York Onondagas County page 35
POMPEY, NY
Source: Onondaga; or Reminiscences of Earlier and Later Times, Vol. II, by Joshua V. H. Clark, A.M., Stoddard and Babcock, Syracuse, NY, 1849, pp. 241-282
Pompey, Onondaga County, NY (Top Right) in clear blue circle
You Dig up no more Dead Indian
This [Pompey] was one of the original towns, formed at the first organization of the county, in 1794, and number ten of the Military Townships. At that period it comprised the townships of Pompey, Fabius and Tully, with that part of the Onondaga Reservation, lying south of the Great Genesee Road, and east of Onondaga Creek. The boundaries and area of this town, have been materially diminished since the period of its first organization; so that at the present time, it contains but sixty-eight lots of the one hundred, as laid out in the original township. This township obtained great celebrity abroad, at a very early period, and was principally settled by people from New-England, many of whom took up their residence here, while the township was a part of the town of Mexico, Herkimer County. Mr. John WILCOX was the first white settler on the Township, who came out in the spring of 1789, with an Indian chief from Oneida, for the purpose of exploring the country. He made selection of the lot on which he settled, known as the HASKINS farm, two miles north of La Fayette village. Here was an extensive Indian orchard, and with a view to its improvement, Abel OLCUTT came out the same spring, and made arrangements for pruning it. He spent his nights at the Onondaga Castle, three miles distant, there being no white people nearer than DANFORTH’s or MOREHOUSE’s. He lodged in the cabin of CAWHIEDOTA.
In the prosecution of his labors in pruning, he was surprised that in the center of each and every tree was a collection of small brush, about the size of a bushel basket. Wondering at the singularity of such a circumstance, he inquired of his Indian friend and host the cause, who explained after the following manner: He said, that after the war of the Revolution, the Indian settlement at that place was abandoned, in consequence of the destruction of the corn fields, and a part of the great orchard, by Col. Van SCHAICK, in 1779; that the Onondagas had become completely discouraged, in consequence of the severe losses they had sustained during the war; consequently the Indians, since the war, had not occupied or cultivated any of their lands in that quarter, and the brush he had found collected in the apple-trees, was the work of bears, who ascended the trees in autumn, gathering in the slender branches loaded with apples, with their paws leisurely devouring the fruit, at the same time depositing the branches under them, between the larger diverging limbs, for a more comfortable seat. Sometime after Mr. WILCOX had settled in his new place of abode, his harvests had been abundant, and his stacks of hay and wheat numerous; (for as yet, he had no barns,) every thing seemed to prosper in his hands, but lo, in a single night his cherished hopes were blasted, for some ruthless hand had lighted the torch, and applied it with complete fatality to the gathered treasures of the year. He awoke in the morning only to behold the desolation, and the smoking ruins of his labors, his sustenance and wealth.
The Indians were suspected as guilty of the outrage, and complaint was at once made to the principal chief at Onondaga, who upon investigation, remarked to Mr. WILCOX with the most perfect nonchalance without palliation or denial, “You dig up no more dead Indian, no more will your stacks be burned.”The admonition was sufficient, for although it had been a common practice to rob Indian graves, for the brass kettles and trinkets buried with the bodies; it was from this time discontinued, and the harvests of the farmers were henceforth unmolested.
IROQUOIS ORIGINS NEAR PALMYRA
The Onondaga at the great white pine tree in Syracuse NY on the shores of Onondaga Lake is where the message of peace was planted and the hatchets were buried. Similarly, the Lamanites , “…buried the weapons of war, for peace.” See Alma 24:19
Handsome Lake
“How America Was Discovered is a story told by Handsome Lake (Seneca Prophet), and documented by Arthur C. Parker, about a young minister who meets the one he perceives to be the Lord, who then asks him to go to a new land and bring with him cards, money, a fiddle, whiskey, and blood corruption. In return the young minister will become rich. The young minister sought out Christopher Columbus, and with the help of his crew, traveled to the Americas. They turned back to report what they had seen, which caused an immigration of people from Europe to the Americas. Along with the people came the five things that aided in destroying the natives. The end reveals that the “Lord” in the gold castle was actually the devil, and that even he knew what he had caused was wrong.” Rudes, B. Tuscarora English Dictionary Toronto
When serving as Mission President to the Seminole Indians in Central Florida, Murray J. Rawson was teaching a group of the tribe about the Book of Mormon when he was interrupted by their Chief, saying: “We had a war long ago with a light skinned people around the Great Lakes. We conquered them but we had so much respect for their warrior chief that we buried him at the mouth of the Oswego River that is in New York State. We don’t discuss this very much because it is an embarrassment to us. President Rawson then asked why this is an embarrassment, and the Chief replied, “ Our history is written on metal plates and buried in a hill in New York, but we don’t know which hill!” (Talk given to missionaries in training at the MTC, Provo, Utah 1979, by President Murray J. Rawson).
Many Iroquois Chiefs during Joseph Smith’s time in New York
IROQUOIS TREATIES
1613 Two Row Wampum or Tawagonshi Agreement (Dutch and French) 1677 Covenant Chain Treaty (English) 1784 The Treaty of Fort Stanwix between the United States and Native Americans. Rome, New York 1788 Phelps & Gorham Purchase with the Iroquois for lands in New York State east of the Genesee River 1794 Treaty of Canandaigua affirming lands rights in New York State east of the Genesee River 1797 Treaty of Big Tree with the Iroquois for lands in New York State west of the Genesee River
“Contrary, then, to widespread assumptions during Joseph Smith’s lifetime that the Onondaga migrated to the New York region, it becomes clear that they originated here as a small, narrowly localized amalgamation of a few villages near Onondaga Lake, during the century before Columbus’ discovery of America” Beauchamp’s Aboriginal Place Names of New York;
Hills and Ruins of Pompey
Pompey NY
The first settlers in the present town of Pompey, were Ebenezer BUTLER, from Harrington, Connecticut, who located on lot number sixty-five, in 1792. His brother, Jesse BUTLER, and Jacob HOAR, came on in the spring of the same year. Sally HOAR was the first white child born in this town, and Orange, son of Jesse BUGLER, the first male child. Ebenezer BUTLER died in 1829; he has descendants still living in Ohio. Directly after these first, came James OLCOTT, True Worthy and Selah COOK, Noadiah and Epiphas OLCOTT, the HOLBROOKs, JEROMEs, HIBBARDs, HINSDALEs, MESSINGERs, WESTERNs, ALLENs, BURRs and others, so that neighborhoods began to be formed in many places, as early as 1793 and 1794…
On the west branch of the Limestone Creek, near the mills of the Messrs. PRATT, about two and a half miles north-east of Pompey Hill, is a remarkable waterfall, of about one hundred and sixty feet, which at high water, presents a very grand and imposing appearance. This fall is almost perpendicular, yet enough broken to add beauty to its general character. The chasm below the fall is narrow, deep, abrupt, and the sides much worn. The rock is brown shale…
There are several stone quarries in this town, used for building purposes, mostly dark shale, which are not considered of the most durable or desirable kind. Among these are found petrifactions of oyster, clam and scollup shells,and specimens of trilobite, and other extinct species of crustacea, found in the earliest fossiliferous strata…It may not be uninteresting to the rising generation to be informed, that less than fifty-five years ago, such a vehicle as a horse wagon, was not in existence in this town or county, and the visiting was done mostly in winter on ox sleds; and happy and rich indeed was he who could yoke a pair of oxen of his own, make his way through the woods with his wife and a child or two on the sled, on an evening’s visit to a neighbor’s, several miles distant… At length a beautiful village appears, and is called BUTLER’s Hill, afterwards, Pompey Hill; and there was a time within the memory of many still living, when this same village of Pompey Hill, was as prominent a place as any in the county. It gave more tone to the surrounding settlements, on account of its refinement and wealth, its intelligence and learning, than any place in its vicinity. People came here for legal advice, they came here for medical advice, to do their trading, and they came here for fashions, they came here for military parades, for political discussion, and for general consultations of a public nature; they came here to engage in all the amusements and duties incident to men of a public character…
As the country increased in population, and the forests were prostrated by the woodman’s ax, the beasts of prey yielding the right of possession, retreated into the more unbroken regions, where the dwellings of men were not as frequent. In the town of Fabius, the next town south, an old bear lingered, apparently disputing the right of occupancy, with more tenacity and boldness, than some of his more timorous associates. And not unfrequently did he sally forth in the night, and make forcible entry into the pig pens and carry off some of the younger branches of the swine family, much to the annoyance of the settlers… This occurrence took place in 1802 or ‘3, and is still a story of interest to the descendants of the participators in the scenes of that day….
POMPEY HOLLOW, DELPHI
This highly fertile and interesting valley, which borders on the east line of the county, is ten miles in length by about two in width, and contains near twelve thousand acres of land… The land of this valley, like much of that in other parts of the town of Pompey, had to be cleared of heavy timber, consisting of elm, oak, ash, maple, basswood, &c., interspersed with pine, cedar and hemlock. Like the pioneers of all new settlements, the first years of their sojourn were spent under exceedingly great discouragements. They relied, for the first year or two, entirely on provisions brought along with them from the east…
The first frame house of worship in the town of Pompey, was erected by this society in 1807 and ‘8, being the third house of worship erected in the county. The following Rev. gentlemen have occasionally or stately officiated here. Rev. Messers. Rawson, DAVENPORT and BALDWIN, were settled here; Rev. Messers. LEONARD and CHADWICK, and several Baptist and Methodist Clergymen, have occasionally officiated. The Universalist Society now hold and occasionally occupy the house, and furnish a large part of the congregation. The building is apparently fast going to decay.
Dr. Daniel DENNISON first commenced the practice of medicine at this place, in 1814, and is still at his post healing the sick and comforting the dying. Previously, Drs. WARD, WEED. and FISK, of Eagle Village, had officiated as physicians at this place. No lawyer has ever resided at Oran. Messrs. DELAMATER opened the first store of note here about the year 1810, and did a flourishing business…
A little cast of the village of Delphi, are two very beautiful waterfalls, on the Limestone Creek. They are separated by a deep rocky gorge, of some twenty rods in extent, about thirty yards broad at the top, and not more than eight or ten at bottom, through which the water rushes with great force. The upper fall may be about forty feet in height, and nearly perpendicular, very little broken, and situated as it is among this wild mountain scenery, conveys to the mind an idea of sublimity and grandeur, exciting both wonder and astonishment. The lower full is about fifty feet, and the water leaps over the abrupt and rocky precipice, with a charming mixture of the picturesque and sublime. The high banks of bare dark brown shale, with occasionally an evergreen shrub growing out of the perpendicular precipice, serves to vary the effect, and give life to the boldness and imagery of the scene.
Statistics of Pompey from census of 1845:—
Number of inhabitants, 4,112; subject to military duty, 257; voters, 977; aliens, 36; paupers, 6; children attending Common Schools, 1,029; acres of improved land, 30,951; grist mills, 3; saw mills, 11; oil mills, 2; fulling mills, 1; carding machines, 1; woolen factory, 1; trip hammer, 1; asheries. 1; tanneries, 5; Churches—Baptist, 3; Presbyterian, 3; Episcopal, 1; Methodist, 4; l Universalist, 1; Roman Catholic, private, 1; Academy, 1; Common Schools, 26; Select Schools, 1; taverns, 8; retail stores, 5; merchants, 9; manufacturers, 26; farmers, 775; mechanics, 88; clergymen, 9; physicians, 6; lawyers, 5.
ANTIQUITIES OF THE TOWNSHIP OF POMPEY.
The antiquities of the township of Pompey, consist mainly of earthern forts and defenses—mural remains, traces of villages, trading establishments, burying places and sundry articles found scattered among them. These things, it is our intention briefly to notice.
Indian Hill
One of the most noted localities of this kind, is the one on the farm of Isaac P. JOBS, usually called “Indian Hill.”Upon this spot have been found, perhaps a greater variety of articles, positively indicating the residence, at some early period, of Europeans, than on any other in the vicinity… To the north, is a beautiful slope, extending some thirty or forty rods, when it takes a rapid fall of fifty or more feet. Then a plain of some thirty or forty acres, spreads itself out in full view from the hill. Upon this level were several acres literally covered with graves.
A brass medal was found near this place, in 1821, by John WATSON. It was without date, on one side of it was a figure of Louis XIV, king of France and Navarre. On the reverse aide, was represented a field, with three flowers de luce, supporting a royal crown, surrounded by the name of Nale LANFAR & Co. It was about the size of a Spanish pistareen, had been compressed between dies—characters and letters distinct. It was given to the Hon. Samuel L. MITCHELL, to grace his collection of curious relics and coins.
Enclosure entitled “The Fort”
When the first settlers came here in 1791, ’92 ’93, this ground was covered with thorns, wild plumtrees and other shrubs, indicating that it had been cleared and cultivated at some previous time. When it was first cultivated in these latter times, gun barrels, sword blades, hatchets, knives, axes, clay pipes, copper kettles, brass chains, beads of glass, pewter plates, rings for the fingers, ear and nose jewels, lead balls, iron gate hangings, copper coins, tools for working wood and iron, and other articles used by civilized men and unknown to savages, together with human bones, were frequently found on or near the earth’s surface. Many of our early settlers, now living, distinctly recollect the appearance of the enclosure entitled “the fort,” upon and about which, trees had grown to a considerable size. Its earthen walls were then some four or five feet high, having evidently been considerably lessened by the ravages of time. It was circular, and from three hundred to three hundred and fifty feet in diameter. There was but one gateway, and that quite narrow. In 1801, Mr. John HATCH ploughed up three muskets and a blunderbuss. They were found near together, the stocks decayed, the barrels flattened as if with the head of an ax, plainly bearing the indentations of that instrument. There are traditionary notions prevailing with some of the inhabitants in this vicinity, that the mutilation of these arms in this manner was by the Indians who did it that the sound of the guns might not kill them. It is supposed that they were ignorant of the true cause of the weapon’s power of destructiveness. This conclusion is probably erroneous, as nearly all the gun barrels have been found flattened at their muzzles, and the more reasonable inference is, that it was the work of victorious parties who were unable to secure them by removal, and did it to prevent their again becoming useful in the hands of their enemies.
Guns, Copper Coins and Brass Found
The guns usually found, are of a heavy make, with large bell-shaped muzzles; those seen by the author were evidently of English manufacture. The copper coins were French, though so much corroded, that the marks and dates could not be deciphered. Several pits where corn had been stored were visible. In one of these pits a large quantity of charred corn was found. Probably on the breaking up of the establishment, the lodge which contained it was burned over it, and thus prepared the mass for the state of preservation in which it was found. At every plowing something new is brought to light. Not long since a curiously wrought brass chain, two and a half feet long and one inch and a half wide, was found. Its appearance was as if it had recently been subjected to fire, the most prominent parts newly polished. A curious brass image was recently found there, probably a part of some Romish priest’s collection. Many of these relics were found by Mr. JOBS or his workmen, and several are now in his possession. The soil upon this ridge, where undoubtedly once flourished an extensive Indian village, and European trading establishments, has the appearance of rich garden mold recently manured. Large spots of very dark mold may still be seen at regular intervals, a few yards apart, in which are mingled ashes and charcoal, and these, probably, mark the site of the cabins or houses once standing over them. De Witt CLINTON visited this place and others of a similar nature in 1815 or 1816, made many inquiries, and gathered a variety of relics, some of which were presented to the New-York Historical Society. Among them were a small bell without a clapper, piece of a large bell, a gold finger ring, sword blade, bayonet, &c.
Skeletons
There is an extensive burying place contiguous, where several acres were once covered with graves of men, women and children. The skeletons were universally found buried in sitting posture, facing the east, with some domestic utensil or weapon of war between the thigh bones. They are usually found two or three feet below the surface. The skull and bones of the body are uniformly sunk to a level with the legs. From appearances, the bodies, after being placed in their graves, were covered with brush previous to casting the earth upon them. Trees of two hundred years growth, once stood over some of these graves.
This and all the other burying places have been resorted to by antiquaries and others, more curious than considerate, for the purpose of obtaining Indian skeletons. To so great an extent has this rude practice been carried, that perhaps at this time it would be difficult to find one by seeking—as if it could be no harm to rob an Indian’s grave. These noble men have gone; their generations sleep in our cultivated fields; our harvests wave upon their hills; we have robbed them of all else, and we should at least spare their places of sepulcher. Many years ago, when the settlements were first made, a man, whose name deserves not to be remembered, made a regular business of disinterring the bones contained in the Indian graves, to taking whatever was found in them to himself. Hundreds of skeletons have been removed for anatomical purposes, and to enlarge the cabinets of the curious. In this unhallowed business he amassed several hundred dollars’ worth of property. The Indians, who are remarkable for their regard for the dead who, though Pagan in their worship, are shining examples for Christians to follow, in respect to the violation of these sacred deposit, mere at one time on the point of unceremoniously chastising him in a most summary manner. He eluded their vengeance and never dared visit the country afterwards.
Onondaga Castle
There is another place of considerable importance, called “the castle,” near David WILLIAMS’, Pompey, one mile from “Indian Hill.” In former years it was owned by Michael BOURSE, who collected a great variety of trinkets, consisting of beads, precious “stone ornaments,” &c. In 1815, a brass medal was found, on one side of which was an equestrian image with a drawn sword, and on the other, William, Prince of Orange, with a crest or coat of arms; the date was obliterated. William, Prince of Orange, flourished in 1689, and was quite conspicuous in the affairs of New-York for several years previous. This medal may have been a present by him to some distinguished chief. In that neighborhood, a bass wood tree was felled, and an ineffectual attempt made to split the first twelve feet into rails. It was found impossible to open it at all, when, upon farther examination, a large chain was found encircling it, over which one hundred and seventy-eight concentric circles had formed, representing as many years. A large hemlock tree was discovered with three distinct cuts of an ax, over which one hundred and seventy-nine of these granular circles had formed. Now subtract one hundred and seventy-eight from 1815, the time when these examinations were made, and we have the date 1637, as the time when these marks were supposed to have been made, at which time, it is reasonable to suppose, the neighborhood was inhabited by Europeans. A mortar dug out of solid rock may be seen at the brook near by, holding nearly a peck. In the steep banks of this brook are numerous evidences of its having been the scene of a hard fought battle. Articles of war, such as gunbarrels and bullets, have been found, and also knives, axes, &c., upon this particular spot. The regular appearance of four laid out streets for a considerable extent, was once very discernable, and small hillocks where corn had evidently been cultivated could be traced for a long distance. Weapons and implements anciently used by the Indians were frequently found by farmers in plowing their fields, consisting of arrowheads, axes, hatchets, gouges, pestles, &c., made of flint, granite and hornblend, nicely cut and finely polished. David WILLIAMS at one time plowed up the skeleton of a man, and found with it a small brass kettle filled with corn and beans, in a tolerable state of preservation. The kettle was used in his family for domestic purposes several years. A gun barrel was found leaning against a tree, with two-thirds of its top imbedded therein. Wood had made over it about twelve inches. Fragments of the lock were found with it. A box was discovered below the surface of the earth, supposed to have been buried in a hurried manner. It was so far preserved as to show plainly that it had been made of riven planks of ash, partially smoothed with an ax. It contained cloths of red and blue colors; the folds could plainly be seen, and parts were so sound as to admit of being raised without falling asunder. Lead clasps, bearing French marks upon them, were contained in the box.
Samuel HIBBARD and David HINSDALE at one time found a gun barrel on lot number six. They were then boys, and thought to have a little sport. For this purpose they placed the butt end of the gun barrel in the fire, for the purpose of burning off the rust; after a while the barrel exploded and forced a ball against the stone jambs, which completely flattened it. How long this weapon had been charged is unknown, but allowing it to be at the date of other evidences of French occupancy, it must have been near one hundred and forty years. The barrel when found was standing upright in a clump of basswood bushes, as if it had been leaned against a stump which had decayed, and the clump of shrubbery grown up in its stead. Over thirty ivory combs were found near the same place, many of them in a tolerable state of preservation. Wagon loads of old iron have been taken from these grounds.
Mr. HINSDALE of Pompey, at one time had in his possession three vises, one of which was very large, and the jaws alone weighed forty one pounds. It was beautifully engraved all over, with representations of dogs, bears, deer, squirrels, fishes, birds, and was altogether a beautiful specimen of workmanship. Another, a hand vise of excellent quality, was sold to Mr. BOYLSTON, a silversmith of Manlius Village, who used it while he continued in the business. Mr. David HINSDALE found a nest of brass kettles, the largest of which would hold two pails full, and the smallest about three pints. They were all bailed, ready for use, and some of the smaller ones were used in Dr. WESTERN’s family, and Mr. HINSDALE’s family, for several years. The larger ones, being on the outside, were considerably corroded by time and exposure, and were unfit for use. When found, they were nearly buried under the roots of a large tree.
The bones of a man were found on the surface, partially covered, and with them part of a case of surgical instruments, much corroded by rust. On the late Dr. WESTERN’S farm, could be distinctly traced the remains of a small fortification, with a burying place. One grave was opened, in which were the remains of thirteen men. One of the skulls taken from it had been perforated by a bullet, which was found within it. Another skull found in this grave was very much larger than its fellows; the under jaw would fit completely outside of a common man’s, and it is said that the other bones were of corresponding gigantic dimensions A vise and other blacksmith’s tools were found here, as well as gate hinges and many trinkets like those already enumerated. Not far from this last, on the farm of the late John CLAPP, at an early day were plainly traceable, the lines of an earthen fortification. Sundry articles, such as musket balls, gun barrels, axes, &c., have been found upon this ground. The axes were usually made from a straight bar of iron, the eye formed by bending it over, welding it down and hammering out an edge; not at all resembling any tool now in common use. Near this place were plowed up, several years since, six large, very deep, heavy, and broad rimmed pewter platters. They were found several inches below the surface, one within another; they are in a very good state of preservation now and plainly bear the impression of the British coat of arms; probably were once the property of a party of English traders and may have been buried there as a place of safety.
In felling a large pine tree for shingles on Mr. HIBBARD’S farm, in 1820, after cutting in about a foot, the mark of an ax was found, and also a burned spot, the size of a man’s hand or larger. The probability is, that the tree had been “boxed” to obtain turpentine, and when the ancient settlement was broken up, the turpentine had been burned out. From appearances, about one hundred and seventy years must have passed away since the ax and fire had set their mark upon this tree. All had grown up solid, and there was no outward appearance of former work upon the tree. On Mr. David HINSDALE’s farm, under a large pine stump, was a heap of ashes and cinders, from which the boys in the neighborhood used to extricate almost every variety of Indian relic.
Tis the Field of Blood.
Near Mr. HINSDALE’s house, when the land was first occupied, and before the plow began its work, there were numerous circular elevations made of stones, some twelve or fourteen feet in diameter, and about eighteen inches high. They were arranged in regular rows, some two or three rods apart, and were probably the foundations of cabins, which had been once erected on this ground, which must from their numbers and extent formed a considerable village. Among the curious relics preserved by Mr. HINSDALE, is a pad-lock of triangular shape, about three inches on a side. It is almost destroyed by rust, but it is a singular piece of mechanism, and must in its day have been quite a formidable opponent to the progress of thieves. He has a knife which has withstood the rust and ravages of exposure and time better than any thing yet found. The steel must be of the finest quality, and high tempered, and might now be used as well as ever if it was provided with a handle. He has numerous beads, specimens of wampum, ornaments of red pipe-stone, medals, rings, crosses, &c. &c., which are well worth the attention of the curious. Several brass crescents have been found bearing the inscription, “Roi de France et Dieu.” These were probably used for nose and ear jewels. Corn hills were abundant near all the places bearing the marks of occupancy before the plow leveled them, and even now in the forests they are to be found, but not so frequently as in former times. The art of making maple sugar was undoubtedly known to the Indians, for the early settlers all agree that the maple trees in this region bore evident marks of having been tapped. Ax marks were often found six or eight inches from the bark, many of the trees being hollow, caused by frequent incisions. Even the marks made by the rude gouges of the natives were sometimes made visible in the operation of clearing off forests.
These places of defense and burial were very numerous in the township of Pompey. There are not less than fifteen which have been pointed out to us, and which we have visited. they are scattered through several of the neighboring towns. We might multiply accounts of these relics without end, but enough has already been said, we hope, to attract the attention of searchers after antiquarian truth, and to show that this interesting section was once partially peopled by Europeans, (probably French, long since the discovery of America by Columbus,) whose history is obscure, and can only be imperfectly unraveled by judicious comparisons and plausible conjecture.
Most of the grounds before noted, undoubtedly have been the scenes of hard fought battles, after which the country was probably deserted by the remnant (if any) of whites who once kept their trading establishments here. Villages to a considerable extent once covered these hills, and the fate of their inhabitants is, and probably for ever will be wrapped in mystery. When, or by what civilized men these fortifications were built, it were vain for us to inquire; obscurity draws her doubtful veil over the whole, and we dimly see in the faded traditions and chronicles of the past, that these were the works of architects not barbarian, at a period not exceedingly remote. Indian tradition still keeps alive the fact that these grounds have been the theatre of blood; and such is their abhorrence of scenes once enacted here, that except in a few very rare instances, they do not visit the regions near the ancient forts and burying grounds. “Ote queh-sa-he-eh” is their exclamation—“’Tis the field of blood.”
By comparing facts and circumstances as they have fallen under our observation with other historical data, and considering the importance the early French colonists of Canada always attached to the Indian trade, the readiness with which they adapted themselves to Indian manners and habits, and the earnest desire of the Jesuits to establish the Romish religion among them, it may not be unreasonable to suppose, that designing men pushed their way here, and made themselves familiar with the country and its resources, long before colonies were established, and individual enterprise may have erected defenses for security, long before they were considered of sufficient importance to claim protection from their government. It should also be borne in mind, that the French had always cherished the design of absolutely monopolizing and controlling all the trade of the Iroquois. Colonies and military posts were established at Quebec and Montreal, during the first twelve years of the seventeenth century, and these were considerably increased during the twenty-five years immediately succeeding.
The Dutch also had opened a channel of trade with the “Maquas,” during the period that they held possession of New-Netherlands; but it does not appear that during their ascendancy, their traders or people formed any permanent residences among the Indian nations west of the Mohawks’ country, although the trade was considered lucrative. And the New-England people it is presumed, had troubles enough to engage all of their attention at home, in the protracted and exhausting wars which occurred during the infancy of their settlements. So that it is but reasonable to infer, that the early French adventurers succeeded in so far winning the favor and affections of the Iroquois, as to be allowed to intrench themselves strongly within their territory, as early as 1640 or 1650, and that these ruins now so famous as antiquarian relics in our county, were the works of their hands.
The most interesting and important relic of by-gone days, and the one which has attracted the most attention, and elicited the most speculative opinions in this region, undoubtedly is the celebrated stone found by Mr. Philo CLEVELAND on his farm, since occupied by the late Mr. Anson SPRAGUE. It is about fourteen inches long by twelve inches broad and eight inches thick; a very heavy, hard, oval shaped stone, evidently a boulder, much worn, and from outward appearances, granitic, but perhaps approaching nearer to gneiss than granite; on it in the centre, is rather rudely engraved the figure of a tree with a serpent climbing it. (See the annexed out.)
Of course the interpretation would be materially different. It was probably designed as a sepulchral monument, and may have been executed on or near the place where it was found.
The following brief history of this singular relic may not be wholly uninteresting. Mr. CLEVELAND was picking stones in his field, preparatory to making a meadow, in the summer of 1820 or 1821. It was on a moist piece of ground and toward evening, at the close of his day’s labors, he raised the stone with his iron bar and turned it on its edge. Mr. C. being weary, leaned against a stump near by, with his hands resting on the top of the bar. While musing in that position, with his eyes fixed upon the stone, he observed something remarkable about it; and upon taking a nearer view, discovered some of the characters and letters above described. He removed it to a pile of stones not far distant, and at the time thought but little of it. Several days afterward he made another visit to the stone, when he found that the rain had washed the dirt clean from it, and the rude engraving was much more distinctly to be seen. This induced him to invite some of his neighbors to examine it, whereupon it was decided to remove it to a blacksmith’s shop at Watervale, a small settlement near by. It remained there six months or more, and became the subject of much talk and speculation at the time.
Every person who came to the shop, would of course examine the stone, take a horse nail or old file and scrape all the cracks, seams and carvings, giving it somewhat the appearance of new work. The stone was found with the inscription downward, about one-third buried. It is not at all probable that Mr. CLEVELAND or any of the persons who first saw the stone in the field or at the shop, could have designed or executed the carvings; besides, there are many persons now living who would bear testimony to its authenticity. It was subsequently removed to Manlius Village, and was visited by several distinguished gentlemen of science, most of whom were disposed to admit that it was genuine. It remained in this village nearly a year, and was finally deposited in the Museum of the Albany Institute, now under the care of Dr. T. Romeyn BECK, where it still remains an object both of speculation and curiosity; and so far as the writer of this is informed, it is admitted to be an authentic memorial of antiquity. The stone and inscription are subjects highly interesting to the lovers of antiquarian lore, and to the curious student.
An attempt to account for, decipher and satisfactorily explain so singular a relic, might seem arrogant in the extreme. A few words will suffice, when we reflect that Mexico had been fully explored and settled by Spaniards previous to 1521, and that those people always manifested an insatiable thirst for gold. Gaspar COTEREAL, a Portuguese, had explored nearly the whole coast of North America, in 1501. The fishing grounds of Newfoundland were well known and occupied by the French, as early as 1505. The French navigator, VERRAZZINI, faithfully examined the shores of the United States, in 1525. DE SOTO’S memorable campaign commenced in 1539 and ended in 1542. He penetrated as far north as the 36th degree of north latitude, and explored both sides of the Mississippi for several leagues. During his travels, it is said he fell in with a party of northern Indians, who had with them a Spaniard taken from the party of NARVAEZ, who had proceeded over much of Florida, ten years before. When these facts are taken into consideration, and the extreme interest then felt by all classes of men, in the development of the resources of the new world, the avidity with which daring adventurers sought the most distant and imaginary sources of wealth; and the avarice, cupidity and desperation of these men, it may not appear incredible, that a party of Spaniards, either stimulated by the spirit of adventure, or allured by the love of gold, or driven by some rude blast of misfortune, may have visited this region, lost one of their number by death, and erected this rude stone with its simple inscription as a tribute to his memory, as early as the year 1520.
On the hill, about one mile and a half south of Delphi, on lot number one hundred, Pompey, are the ruins of an old fort and burying place, occupying about eight acres of land. It is situated on an elevated piece of ground, surrounded by a deep ravine made by two small streams, which pass around it and unite on the north, making the form of the elevation triangular, or more in shape, like a flat-iron with its point to the north. The principal gateway and entrance was at the north point, and a smaller one on the south side.There was a mound or bastion in front of it. The area of this place of defense was enclosed with a ditch and pickets, which can now be traced throughout nearly the whole circumference, as plain and distinctly as if but recently abandoned. At every place where a picket had stood, a slight depression in the earth is distinctly visible. In one instance, a large tree had fallen, and beneath its roots a cavity was exposed, which had every appearance of having, at some previous time, been the receptacle of a post over which the tree had grown, perhaps one hundred and fifty or two hundred years, and left the artificial post to decay beneath its trunk. The timber within this enclosure was of smaller growth than that immediately contiguous, consisting of dwarf plumb trees, thorns, small maple and ash trees, bushes, &c. The ground was covered with grass. In one corner of the fort, were evident marks of a blacksmith’s shop having been once in full operation there, for various tools have been found belonging to the trade, and also a bed of cinders and a deposit of charcoal. Beneath one of these piles were found en cache, a quantity of corn, among which was a quantity of pumpkin or squash seeds, charred, which almost instantly crumbled to dust upon being exposed to the air. A short distance to the south of the fort is the main burying ground, which is quite extensive. One of the peculiarities of this ground, from all others in which we have had knowledge, is that the corpses are buried, one row with their heads to the west and the next row with their heads to the east, so that the feet of the two rows were towards each other, and very near together, with the arms folded across the breast.Many of these skeletons have at different times been removed, disentombed to illustrate science and adorn the cabinets of the curious. The skeletons taken from here, have usually been of a size averaging far above that of common men. Several have exceeded seven feet.Many curious trinkets have been disinterred with these bones, such as arrow-heads, axes, knives gun-barrels, beads, glass and earthen were, &c. &c., similar to like named articles found at other places of defense in this vicinity. Under the head of one of these skeletons, which had been removed from its resting place in 1814, was found a large flat stone, and upon that a plate of lead, which had become completely oxydized, and upon exposure to the air crumbled to dust. Near this head was found an ink horn and a curiously wrought pen, made of one of the small spurs of a buck’s horn, from which it was concluded at the time that the subject must have been a man of education, and his occupation that of a secretary or scribe. Within the fort was a large stone about four feet square, upon which were several furrows in regular lines, two or three inches apart, an inch deep, extending nearly across the stone, similar to those on a like kind of stone near the fortification on lot number thirty-three, on the east side of the Hollow. Whether these are significant of any thing, or only the work of fancy, we have not been able to determine. It is supposed by some to be a resort for sharpening tools, implements, &c., which would seem probable enough, were it not that the stones contain no grit, and the lines are perfectly regular and similar to each other. The indentations denoting the position of the posts or pickets in this work, are about four feet apart, and undoubtedly the interstices were filled with saplings interwoven, so as to make the whole a firm and substantial work of aboriginal defense. The palisades were set in the bottom of a ditch, which the early settlers say was in some places six feet deep, when they first saw it forty or forty-five years ago. This work is mainly now on land which has not been cleared. This work is represented by figure one in the cut. About a mile west from this is the remains of another work of similar character, and two miles north of Delphi, in the town of Cazenovia, on lands owned by Mr. William ATWELL, is another, which is represented in the cut figure two. So common are works of this description in this neighborhood, and so extensive are the depositories of the dead, that the most undoubted evidence exists that a numerous population must have, at some prior period, inhabited here.
There is another site of an ancient fortification on a farm owned by a Mr. SHELDON, lately owned by Mr. Elihu BARBER, about one mile north of Delphi, on the west side of the Hollow. The position, appurtenances, &c., of this locality, so nearly resemble the one just before mentioned, that a particular description of it is deemed unnecessary. It is said, how ever, that when the ground was first plowed a cart or carriage wheel was turned up nearly entire, a circumstance which has not occurred we believe in any other locality. Hills of corn were once distinctly traceable at intervals from one of these forts to the other, nearly the whole distance, which proves this neighborhood to have been cleared up at an early day, as the trees now occupying this ground are supposed to be at least two hundred years old, large and uniform in size, so close together as not to admit at all of cultivation between them.
Under a very large pine tree, which had been upturned by the wind, on the farm occupied by Mr. James SCOVILLE, was discovered a large bed of charcoal, which must have been deposited there, judging from the size of the tree, at least two hundred years before. On his farm, also, was an extensive burying ground, where human bones of extraordinary dimensions, have been exhumed.
Mr. William HASKINS, who was the fifth inhabitant in the township of Pompey, on lot number thirteen, in 1792, says that in first plowing the lands, almost every variety of implement used in agriculture and the common arts, was found in that neighborhood. They consisted of knives, supposed to be of French manufacture, axes, with the English stamp, gun barrels, some of them with a portion of the stock remaining, abundance of ship-spikes, pump-hooks, a spy-glass, trammel and chains, &c. In one instance a large quantity of musket balls were plowed up by the side of a rock. The remains of a wheel barrow, with the irons entire, also anvils and vises, unfinished gun-barrels and gun-locks, hand-saws and files fragments of church bells, &c. On this ground the graves were arranged with great regularity, side by side, in rows of ten or fifteen rods in extent; in the vicinity were other groups of graves, but not in regular order. Upon examination the body appears to have been enclosed in a wooden or bark box. In one grave was found two glass bottles. In plowing, fragments of glass bottles, earthen and china ware were found, and a stone, cut in imitation of a watch.
There is a locality in the town of Cazenovia, Madison County, near the line of Onondaga, on lot thirty-three, township of Pompey, called the “Indian Fort.” It is about four miles south-easterly from Manlius Village, situated on a slight eminence, which is nearly surrounded by a deep ravine, the banks of which are quite steep and rocky. The ravine is in shape like an ox-bow, made by two streams, which pass nearly around it and unite. Across this bow, at the opening, was an earthen wall running south-east and north-west, and when first noticed by the early settlers, was four or five feet high, straight, with something of a ditch in front, from two to three feet deep. Within the enclosure may be ten or twelve acres of land. A part of this ground, when first occupied in these latter times, was called “the Prairie,” and is noted now among the old men as the place where the first battalion training was held in the county of Onondaga. But that portion near the wall, and in front of it, has recently (some six years ago) been cleared of a heavy growth of black oak timber. Many of the trees were large, and were probably one hundred and fifty or two hundred years old. Some were standing in the ditch, and others on the top of the embankment. There is a burying place within the enclosure. The plow has already done much towards leveling the wall and ditch; still they can be easily traced the whole extent. A few more plowings and harrowings, and no vestige of it will remain. There are numerous specimens of dark brown pottery found upon this ground now, and almost every variety of Indian relic has been found about here, some of which are held in very high estimation by the owners. One fact will apply to this locality, that does not we believe to any other of a similar kind. Two cannon balls, of about three pounds weight, were found in this vicinity, showing that light cannon were used, either for defense, or in the reduction of this fortification.
There is a large rock, in the ravine on the south, on which are inscribed the following characters, thus, IIIIIX, cut three quarters of an inch broad, nine inches long, three-fourths of an inch deep, perfectly regular, and the lines straight. When it was a work of fancy or had significance, we have not been able to determine. On the site of the village of Cazenovia, we have been informed, there was a fort or embankment. Some persons say it was “roundish,” others that it was “angular with sides at right angles.” Recollections respecting it are very imperfect. Many relics have been found here, indicating an earlier occupancy than those usually found in this country. This was on the Oneidas’ territory. There is a singular coincidence in the location of the fortifications enumerated, which we have never observed until a recent visit. They are nearly all, if not quite all, situated on land rather elevated above that which is immediately contiguous, and surrounded or nearly so, by deep ravines, so that these form a part of the fortifications themselves. At one of these, (on the farm of David WILLIAMS, in Pompey,) the banks on either side are found to contain bullets of lead, as if shot across at opposing forces. The space between, may be about three or four rods, and the natural cutting twenty or twenty-five feet deep. This goes far to prove the care these architects had in selecting the most favorable situations for defense, and the fear and expectation they were in of attacks. We are of opinion that the fortifications in this neighborhood are not more ancient than the period of the French settlement of missionaries among the Onondagas, during the early part of the seventeenth century. But the more we investigate this subject, the more we are convinced that there were many more of the French established here among the Indians by far, than has been generally supposed, and their continuance with them longer, for it was a leading feature in the policy of the early French Governors of Canada, and of the French nation, not only to christianized the natives by the introduction of missionaries among them, but also to colonize their country. The nature of the articles found, utensils of farmers and mechanics, hoes, axes, horse-shoes, hammers, blacksmiths’ tools, &c., go to prove that agriculture and the mechanic arts, were practiced some that extensively during their sojourn. The Indian name by which the country in and about Pompey was anciently known, we think goes to substantiate this fact, Ote-ge-ga-ja-ke—an open place, with much grass, an opening, or prairie The timber in many places here, has a vigorous growth; and although large, there is a uniformity in the size and age, which shows that it has all grown up since the occupancy, because under the trees are not only found relics, but among them, in many instances, corn-hills can be traced at considerable distances. That the appearance of corn-hills in a wilderness, after a lapse of so many years may appear less strange, it may be well to remark, that the Indian mode of planting, formerly, varied materially from that of the whites. Their manner was to plant three hills near each other and raise quite a mound around them, and plant the same mound for a series of years, and these mounds are the corn-hills noticed at the present day.
Editor’s Note:
The purpose of my information here about Onondagus County NY and surrounding areas is to share with you significant archaeological evidence for the ancient Hopewell Culture nearby the Hill Cumorah which I also believe is the area where the Nephites lived.
Hopewell Mounds Ohio
There is evidence of fortifications, pottery, copper, weapons, palisades, forts, mass burials, mounds, tools and other artifacts all around this area. I believe the Hopewell culture matches up with the Nephite culture extraordinarily well.The Hopewell originated in 600 BC at the panhandle of Florida from Crystal River to Pensacola, Florida. History documents this. The Hopewell then traveled north into Georgia and Tennessee. There is evidence of a huge society of the Hopewell from Missouri to Illinois to Indiana and then to Ohio which was the dominant historical area of this people. History shows the end of the Hopewell civilization around the year 400 AD. Historians say the Hopewell just disappeared and historians have no idea what happened. I feel I have a good idea. The final battle at Cumorah was 385 AD. This is some of the best evidence of a possible link to the Hopewell and the Nephites.
My friend who is a very loving Christian and Preacher named Richard D. Moats is an Avocational Archaeologist, who has lived in Ohio his entire life and jokes with me and says, “I know the people of Ohio as Hebrews and you know them as Nephites. We have found the same people.” Doesn’t it really make sense that there has to be traces of Hebrew where Lehi and Nephi lived? Search for yourself. Many signs show Hebrew influence in North America and especially in Ohio. It’s sad that many professionals say all the artifacts are a hoax. They have to say that for over 20 various items that have been discovered.
Onondaga; or Reminiscences of Earlier and Later Times continued, “The presentation of medals to the Indians was undoubtedly a very common practice with the missionaries and traders. A valuable cross of gold was several years ago found in the west part of Pompey, and was sold for thirty dollars. The significant “I. H. S.” (“Hominum Salvator, or Jesus, the savior of men”) was upon it. Numbers of crucifixes and crosses have been found. Brass crosses are frequently found, with those letters, and the initials of the latin title put upon the cross at the crucifixion, “I. N. R. I.,” (“Jesuus Nazarenus, Rex Julesorum, or Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews”) and so are medals of the same metal. One was recently found, on the farm of David HINSDALE, about the size of a shilling piece. The figure of a Roman Pontiff, in a standing position, in his hand a crosier, surrounded with this inscription: “B. virg. sin. P. origi. con.” which we have ventured to write out, “Beata virgo sine Peccato originali concepts,” or as we might say in English, “The blessed virgin conceived without original sin.” On the other side was a representation of a serpent, and two nearly naked figures, looking intently upon it. This one is very perfect in all its parts, and the letters as plain as if struck but yesterday. It was undoubtedly compressed between dies. It is oval in shape, and bored that it might be suspended from the neck.
A silver medal was found, near Eagle Village, about the size of a dollar, but a little thinner, with a ring or loop at one edge, to admit a cord by which it might be suspended. On one side appears in relief, a somewhat rude representation of a fortified town, with several tall steeples rising above its buildings, and a citadel from which the British flag is flying; a river broken by an island or two, occupies the foreground, and above, along the upper edge of the medal, is the name Montreal. The initials D. C. F., probably of the manufacturer, are stamped below. On the opposite side, which was originally made blank, are engraved the words CANECYA, Onondagoes, which are doubtless the name and nation of the red ruler on whose dusky breast this ornament was displayed, as a valuable token of friendship of some British Governor of. New York or Canada, to an influential ally among the Five Nations. There is no date on this or any other of the medals. But this must be at least older than the Revolution, and probably more than a hundred and fifty snows have whitened the field, where the plow disinterred it, since the chief, whose name it has preserved, was laid to rest with his fathers.
In July, 1840, was found, on the farm of Mr. William CAMPBELL, by his son, on lot number three, La Fayette, a silver medal, about the size of a dollar, and nearly as thick. On one aide is a device, surmounted by an angel on the wing, stretching forward with its left hand, looking down upon those below with a resolute, determined and commanding countenance. Far in the background, is a lofty ridge of mountains. Just beneath and away in the distance, is seen an Indian village or town, towards which the angel is steadily and earnestly pointing. Above this overhangs a slight curtain of cloud or smoke. Between the village and the mountain are scattering trees, as if an opening had just been made in the forest; nearer are seen various wild animals sporting gaily. In bolder relief are seen Europeans, in the costume of priests and pilgrims, with staves, exhibiting by their gestures and countenances, hilarity, gladness and joy, winding their way up the gentle ascent towards the mountain, decreasing in size from the place of departure, till lost from view. Among them are wheel carriages and domestic animals, intermixed. On the right is a fair representation of a cottage, and a spacious commercial ware-house, against which are leaning sheaves of grain. The whole is surrounded by the following inscription in Dutch: GEHE AUS DEINEM VATTER LAND, 1 b. M., XII., V. 1, and at the bottom across, LASST HIER DIEGVTER. On the opposite side there is a figure of the sun shining in meridian splendor, casting its noon-tide rays over a civilized town, represented by churches, stores, dwellings, &c., with various domestic animals, and numerous persons engaged in husbandry and other pursuits. In bolder relief stand Europeans in the costume of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, engaged as if in animated and joyful conversation and greetings, and by various attitudes, manifesting happiness and joy. On the right is represented a section of a church, at the door of which stands a venerable man, with head uncovered, with his hands extended, as if welcoming these persons to a new and happy habitation. This side is surrounded by the following inscription: VND DV SOLLT EIN SEEGEN SEYN, 1 b. Mos., XII., V. 2, and across the bottom as follows: GOTT GIBT SIEWIEDER.
The interpretation of the first side is—Get thee out from thy country and friends, thou shalt be truly a blessing. On the reverse side, which should be read in connection—Leaving thy goods behind thee, God will restore them to thee again.
Inscription on the Medal
The small letters and figures on the right, refer to the 1st Book of Genesis, XII chap., verses 1st and 2d, which inscription on the medal was taken from those verses in the Dutch Bibles. Our translation is very excellent, though perhaps not strictly literal, (which see.) It is in this chapter that God calleth Abram, and blesseth him with a promise of Christ; promiseth him the land of Canaan in a vision, to which he departed with his kindred and friends and servants, and there builded an altar unto the Lord. Abram’s first step was obedience. He left all and took possession, with his household, of the land of Canaan; and it is remarkable that the first instance of God’s favor towards him was to renew his promise to give him the whole land of Canaan, in place of the possessions he left behind him, and to make his posterity a mighty nation.
This medal must have been none other than one given by his countrymen in Father-land, to a devoted Missionary, with a party of followers intending to spend their days in America, the land of promise, the fruitful Canaan of modern times, who in the goodness of his heart, bent on doing the work of his divine master, at some early day wandered into the wilds of the Onondagas, set up the cross, (the Bethel of Abram,) and left this memento of his mission in the hand of some Neophyte, which by some unaccountable circumstance has been buried, we know not how long, but now comes to light to prove to us, that the aborigines of our country were a people whose spiritual welfare was regarded as sincerely by the Dutch as by their more ambitious and ostentatious neighbors, the French. It is much to be regretted, that on this and all the other medals, there is no date whereby to establish their particular period of antiquity. This is by far the most singular and interesting relic of the kind which has come under our notice, and goes positively to establish a hitherto doubtful point, to wit, the early establishment of missionaries by the Dutch among the Onondagas.*
* Quere. May not this medal be a relic of the Zeisberger mission of 1750.
The fragments of a bell have lately come under our notice found on the farm of Isaac JOBS, which when whole, would have weighed probably one hundred and fifty or two hundred pounds. The metal is very fine, and from appearance, this article must have been of considerable value. Time and exposure have not changed it in the least. When found, some twenty years since, it was broken up, and the pieces found are enough to make it nearly entire.
On the farm of Mr. Isaac KEELER, were the remains of an ancient fort and burying ground. When Mr. KEELER first settled here, the site of the old fort was an extensive opening of about fifty acres, bearing grass, with clumps of wild plumb trees, and a few scattering forest trees. Mr. KEELER has left some of these plumb trees standing, and has cultivated them, and they yield fruit inferior to none. On this opening it is said, was paraded the first regiment of militia that was organized the county of Onondaga, commanded by Major Moses DE WITT. This ancient remnant of a fort is on lot number three, township of Pompey, and was formerly owned by Moses DE WITT. At that time the outlines of this fort were distinctly traceable. It had been enclosed with palisades of cedar and contained some ten acres of land. The plan was a plain parallelogram, divided across the shortest way through the middle, by two rows of palisades running east and west. The space between the rows was about twelve feet. At the north west corner was an isolated bastion and an embrasure. When first brought under cultivation by a Mr. William BENDS, he plowed up many of the stumps of palisades of cedar which had been burned off level with the ground. Within the southern division of the fort were several mounds, the principal one of which was about four feet high, rising on a base of about fifteen feet diameter, composed chiefly of ashes, in which were found many beads of the size of bullets, and many other trinkets of various sizes and patterns, made of red pipe-stone.Several hundred pounds of old iron have been gleaned from this spot, consisting of axes, hatchets, gun-barrels and locks, coarse files, horse-shoes, large spikes, hammers and blacksmiths tools. The smaller mounds principally contained charred corn, many bushels of which have been plowed up. At a distance of about forty rods north of the north-west corner of the fort was a ditch perhaps forty rods long, running north by west; some parts of it three feet deep, others less; about six feet in breadth; undoubtedly it originally was much deeper. From present appearances, it was entirely disconnected with the fort; but time has made such alterations with it and the grounds around, that at this late day, it is impossible to conjecture for what purpose it was originally intended. The situation of this ancient fort was on an elevation of land, gradually rising for nearly a mile in every direction; and at the time of its occupancy, several hundreds of acres of land in the vicinity must have been cleared, giving to the garrison an extensive prospect. The grounds occupied by the fort are about fifty rods east of Mr. KEELER’s house, and are unsurpassed by any in the county for fertility and beauty of location. Here in ancient times, undoubtedly have been marshaled with nodding plume and rattling cuirass, the troops of the French side by side with the dusky Onondagas, singularly contrasting their polished European weapons with the hickory bows and flint arrows of their allies; and here too have they mingled the war-whoop of the savage, with the Vive le Roi de France; while the Black Robes with their trembling neophytes, chante in ecstacy, Venite Exultemus and Jubilate Deo. Seasons of joy and festivities, of worship and praise to God, passed for years over this land; the trader gathered riches from the wild forester, and the warrior fresh laurels wherewith to entwine his brow. At length a storm arises, the priest, the warrior and the chausseur foresee its portentous gloom, too late to flee the tempest, and too feeble to withstand the shock. They fell victims to its fury, and these few relics are the only evidences of their fate. Fragments of broken pottery, apparently used for culinary purposes, are abundantly found on this location. Pipes, flint arrow-heads, stone hatchets, mortars and pestles, gouges &c., are also found. In 1813, Mr. Isaac KEELER felled an oak tree near the site of the fort, measuring three feet in diameter. In preparing the tree for the fire, a leaden bullet was found covered by one hundred and forty-three cortical layers. It was about four inches from the heart of the tree, which must have been small when the bullet was fired. From calculation, the time which has elapsed since the bullet assumed its position, must be over one hundred and forty-five years, making the date of its lodgment, A.D. 1667.
Brass Compass-Box
Mr. KEELER had in his possession a portion of a brass dial plate, plowed up by him on the site of this fort; on it are engraved in fair Roman characters, I. II. III. IV. V. VI. VII VIII.; also a brass compass-box, from which the needle had been removed, and its place supplied with vermilion, a pigment highly prized by the Indians; and another more perfect one beautifully wrought, having on one side a representation of our Saviour, and on the other, Mary the mother of Jesus as represented in the following cuts:
Also, an octagonal brass medal nearly an inch in diameter, having a figure with the name “St. Agatha,” and the Latin word “Ora,” a part of the Gregorian chant. Also a silver medal half an inch long, with a figure inscribed “St. Lucia” and the same fragment of a chant. Mr. KELLER has also an old balance beam eighteen inches long, which perhaps has often tested the weight of the foot of a Frenchman against the red man’s pound of beaver; for, like the ancient Dutch traders at Albany, it was said the French made a foot weigh a pound. Also a medal of lead, oval shaped, an inch and a half long, with the figure of a man suspended by outstretched hands, supposed to be a representation of our Savior on the cross, and a figure of a serpent. On the opposite side is a figure of a man in a sitting posture, resembling the characteristic position of the native prophets;or as some interpret it, the devil—an emblem that Christianity will destroy all evil. An iron horse shoe, steel corked, with three elongated nail holes on each side. The peculiar workmanship of this shoe, its clumsiness and spread, and the little skill which it evinces in the making, denotes it clearly to be the workmanship of a Canadian blacksmith, precisely like those witnessed at the present day in that country, and intended only for the unferriered hoofs of the Canadian horse. It is the roughest specimen of the craft that can be imagined. This is a specimen of several which have been exhumed in this country, all of which are of the rudest workmanship. Several years ago a curious brass plate probably used for a shield, was plowed up; it was oval shaped, and about eighteen inches in diameter the longest way. Here are also found sword guards, fragments of the blades, gun locks, surgeons’ instruments, saws, bracelets for the wrists three inches broad, of brass highly wrought, and many other curious articles.
In many places within this fort and in its vicinity, were found numerous pits for hiding en cache, corn and other articles by the occupants from their enemies, or as a temporary place of deposit during their hunting excursions. Skeletons have been found in these places of deposit, some of them of extraordinary size. The jaws of some of them would fit easily over that of any common man.Mr. KEELER has a portion of a jaw in which are double teeth at least one-third larger than those of an ordinary man.
Indian Relics
On Mr. Samuel A. KEENE’s land, are mounds containing human bones; also burying grounds all along on the west side of the creek, on Mr. Jeremiah GOULD’s land, upon which are found almost every variety of Indian relic. On the grounds of Mr. KEENE have been found several strings of very fine glass beads’ of red, blue and white colors, and others striped and variegated; also numerous little bells, such as are sometimes used by the Romish priesthood. Fish hooks have also been picked up in the vicinity of the old fort, and steels for producing fire with tinder. Mr. Keene has a brass compass box, screw top, and a little brass kettle which holds about a pint, all plowed up on his land. Brass crosses have frequently been plowed up, and some of the most perfect and highest finished ones, have over the head of the Saviour, the letters I, N. R. I. Most of the crosses found in other places have the letters I. H. S.
But the most rare and singular relic which has come to our observation, is an iron bombshell, about the size of a six pound ball, weighing two and three-fourths pounds. This was plowed up on the land of Mr. KEENE, and is believed to be the only article of the kind which has been found. Cannon balls of small size have been found in the eastern part of Pompey.
These relics certainly prove that light cannon were in use at these places of fortification. From the great number of gun barrels, crosses, axes, &c., found about here, it is certain that armed bodies of men in considerable numbers, have occupied these grounds; and that from the mutilated condition of the-guns, the broken axes, jammed kettles, and injured state of every thing contributing to defense and-comfort, they must have been exterminated or forcibly driven away. That these are the remains of the French Jesuits and traders of the seventeenth century, there is not a doubt. Everything goes to substantiate the fact. Enough of their history has been related in the foregoing pages, to settle the question beyond dispute. The forts, relies, utensils, mounds, caches, burying grounds, &c., are similar in every direction, and bear marked evidence of former occupancy by man in a civilized state, and in a former age.Like evidences occur also in De Witt, Camillus and Manlius. Were all the records in Christendom totally destroyed, there still remains the most unquestionable evidences of the presence of civilization in this land, in the metallic arms, implements and utensils of the soldier, the artisan, the mechanic and farmer, succeeding a more rude era, in which arts, agriculture and war were carried on with implements of wood, stone, clay and shells.” Submitted by Carl Hommel, October 2, 1998 Source: Onondaga; or Reminiscences of Earlier and Later Times, Vol. II, by Joshua V. H. Clark, A.M., Stoddard and Babcock, Syracuse, NY, 1849, pp. 241-282 https://archive.org/download/cihm_51018/cihm_51018.pdf
Rivers in North America were the Highways of the Nephites
Jonathan Neville said, “From the perspective of people who used water as boundaries and highways for travel, it would be significant that these lands, [the lands of the Nephites and the Lamanites]—both of them—were “nearly surrounded by water.” The border between them had to be water. In fact, this requirement reinforces the conclusion that the narrow strip of wilderness was a water border.
The land of Nephi is defined by water borders, starting at the northeast with the narrow strip of wilderness. This is the Allegheny down to the Ohio, then south on the lower Mississippi (Sea West) to the Gulf Coast, east to the Atlantic Ocean, and north to one of the river systems flowing out of western New York, such as the Susquehanna River or the Mohawk and Hudson Rivers. This leaves a gap—a small neck—in western New York by the Pennsylvania border in the area of the triple divide, where two continental divides meet. This area is about 80 miles south of the Hill Cumorah and is the location of the headwaters of three rivers that can take a traveler to the Chesapeake Bay, the Gulf of Mexico, or the Gulf of St. Lawrence.
The land of Zarahemla was also nearly surrounded by water. Starting at the gap, or small neck, in western New York and moving southwest, the land is bordered by the Allegheny River, the Ohio River, the upper Mississippi River, and the Missouri River to the wilderness in the northwest. The rivers and lakes of Minnesota and Wisconsin border the north. Moving east are the Great Lakes, all the way back to the gap or small neck.” Moroni’s America page 57
Bark Canoes
“Canoes were developed over the course of thousands of years by the native peoples of North America. The word ‘canoe’ originated from the word ‘kenu’ – meaning dugout. North American Indians are responsible for creating the more well-known version of the canoe – a frame of wooden ribs covered with the lightweight bark of birch trees, and sometimes elm or cedar trees. These boats, which have remained virtually unchanged in design for thousands of years, proved to be ideal for travelling the numerous streams, rivers and lakes of North America. Birch bark was the perfect choice to build canoes because, not only was it lightweight and smooth, but it was also waterproof and resilient. The joints of the canoes were held together by the root of the white pine and then made waterproof by applying hot pine or spruce resin…
Many of the canoes that fur traders used were capable of carrying a crew of up to 12 people and a cargo weighing around 2400 kilograms… At a typical length of 14 ft. and weight of 50 lbs., the canoes were light enough to be portaged, yet could carry a lot of cargo, even in shallow water. Although susceptible to damage from rocks, they are easily repaired.” Bark Canoes Canadian Museum of Civilization.
Young Mormon Travels from Hill Shim to Zarahemla
The map above depicts a possible route that Mormon and his son Mormon may have traveled in a Nephite type canoe. They began in the Cumorah area as we know from scripture they were near the hill Shim. (See Mormon 1:3). We also know the Land of Mormon was named after Mormon (See Mosiah 18:4), and would most generally be located as indicated on the map near the Waters of Mormon, which we have said is very plausible to be near the City Nephi near Chattanooga, Tennessee.
The painting below is depicting Mormon with his son Mormon and his possible other family members in Mormon 1:6-7 that says, “And it came to pass that I, being eleven years old, was carried by my father into the land southward, even to the land of Zarahemla. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous almost, as it were the sand of the sea.”
Mormon was traveling to Zarahemla as we know that by reading Mormon 6:10 it says, “And it came to pass that the war began to be among them in the borders of Zarahemla, by the waters of Sidon.” That means they would have been near the Mississippi River and Montrose, Iowa where we believe the City of Zarahemla was located. (See D&C 125:3)
Shown in the map and painting as a possible tour of the Land Mormon as he shows his son and family where he grew up, as they may have traveled down the Ohio River near Moundsville, West Virginia. You see the Cave Creek Mound depicted and the crowded village of people. During this journey by canoe it is very likely that young Mormon would have kept a type of journal probably on parchment or papyrus as you imagine in this painting. This way he could recall what to write at age 24 as Ammaron had commanded young Mormon to keep a record.
It also seems likely that Mormon would have brought with him the Sword of Laban and breastplate and others would have their armor, such as head plates, and weapons nearby. They may have even used the Liahona, or other devices for physical and spiritual guidance as well.
This art by Ken Corbett above, seems like a great representation of the Nephites traveling in canoes, as I believe the rivers in North America were the highways of the Nephites. As you read below about this amazing discovery of a canoes in Wisconsin, it brings the lives of the Jaredites and Nephites closer to each of us. I thank my cousin Vicki Darais for sharing this article with me.
A second ancient canoe is found in Wisconsin — this time tracing back to 1000 B.C.
Juliana Kim September 24, 2022
A woman from the Ho-Chunk Nation smiles as she touches the canoe. Wisconsin Historical Society maritime archaeologists recovered a 3,000-year-old dugout canoe from Lake Mendota in Madison, Wis., on Thursday.
Wisconsin Historical Society
Tamara Thomsen was giving a scuba diving lesson in Wisconsin’s Lake Mendota when she noticed a piece of wood peeking out of the sand. Her student didn’t think much of it but Thomsen, who is a maritime archaeologist by trade, knew exactly what it was.
“This is not a joke. I found another dugout canoe,” she texted her boss.
The boat discovered in May was the second artifact Thomsen accidentally stumbled upon within the past year. In November 2021, Thomsen spotted a 1,200-year-old canoe while swimming in the same lake during her day off.
Archaeologists from the Wisconsin Historical Society — where Thomsen works — determined that the most recent find is even older — about 3,000 years old, the group announced on Thursday.
Thomsen said that when the radiocarbon dating results from came back, she wrote “1000 B.C.” on a Post-it note and stared in disbelief.
“It just makes you think about the people that were on this landscape where I live, and to imagine they were here hunting, gathering, fishing” she told NPR.
The canoe is about 14.5 feet long and carved from a single piece of white oak. It is believed to be the oldest canoe discovered in the Great Lakes region by roughly 1,000 years.
The two boats were located about 100 yards apart. Experts said the location and close proximity of the boats suggest that ancient villages may have once existed where Lake Mendota is located and the shoreline may have shifted over time.
Wisconsin Historical Society staff and volunteers remove the canoe from its transport trailer and carry it into
the State Archive Preservation Facility in Madison. Wisconsin Historical Society
The 3,000-year-old canoe is believed to be the earliest direct evidence of water transportation used by native tribes from the Great Lakes region.
Members from the Ho-Chunk Nation and Bad River Tribe joined the Wisconsin Historical Society to recover the canoe last spring.
“The recovery of this canoe built by our ancestors gives further physical proof that Native people have occupied Teejop (Four Lakes) for millennia, that our ancestral lands are here and we had a developed society of transportation, trade and commerce,” Marlon WhiteEagle, the president of Ho-Chunk tribe, said in a statement on Thursday.
Both boats discovered by Thomsen will undergo a two-year preservation process.
“Wisconsin historians recently announced the discovery of at least 11 ancient canoes in a Badger State lake – including one boat that dates back to 2500 BC.
The findings were announced in a press release by the Wisconsin Historical Society on May 23. The canoes were found in Lake Mendota, which is located outside of Madison.
The Wisconsin Historical Society explained that two ancient canoes were found in a cache in the lake in 2021 and 2022. Since then, historians have found at least 11 other ancient canoes, along what they believe was an ancient shoreline that became submerged over time…
The Indigenous peoples of Wisconsin and the wider United States fished, traveled, and traded extensively on inland lakes and streams, and until now we have not had a clear look at the canoes used in the Great Lakes region,” she explained…
Lake Mendota is a hard lake to work in, however, Rosebrough admitted. “There is a limited window of visibility for diving missions, and we are exploring non-destructive remote sensing techniques that might help this summer.”
Archaeologists discovered the ancient canoes in the murky waters of Lake Mendota. (Wisconsin Historical Society)
Radiocarbon dating found that the oldest canoe dates back to 2500 B.C., which would mean it was built around the time Stonehenge was constructed. The canoe was constructed more than 1,700 years before Ancient Rome was first settled and 2,500 years before the birth of Jesus Christ.
All the canoes varied in age, with the youngest one dating back to 1250 AD. The archaeologist explained that the canoes “may have been intentionally cached in the water during the winter months, a standard practice to keep canoes safe from freezing and warping…
Archaeologists conduced carbon dating to determine age of canoes. (Wisconsin Historical Society)
The Great Lakes oftentimes receive more funding for maritime archaeology but smaller bodies of water like Lake Mendota have their own distinct histories and stories to tell us about the people who lived here hundreds and thousands of years ago,” she said. “We are proud to work in partnership with Native Nations in Wisconsin to discover all we can about Tee Waksikhominak and to share these stories now and in the future at the new Wisconsin History Center set to open in early 2027.” Andrea Vacchiano
1,200-Year-Old Ho-Chunk Dugout Canoe Found In Wisconsin Lake
The manner of making their boates” by Theodor de Bry after a John White watercolor from 1590. Native Americans make a dugout canoe with seashell scrapers.
“We have identified the Ho-Chunk as the most likely descendants of the canoe-makers. The Oneida and Potawatomi did not arrive in Wisconsin until much later, and the homelands of the Menominee and Ojibwe were further north. The canoe was made by effigy-builders, and the Ho-Chunk claim direct descent from that population,” said Amy Rosebrough, Staff Archaeologist for the Wisconsin Historical Society, as reported in The Daily Mail.
Prophets, Apostles and Leaders speak of “One Hill Cumorah” in many of the quotes below. Are you with the Prophets or Scholars? Many of you reading this blog would probably find it hard to believe that many scholars, seminary and institute teachers, and church employees believe there are two Hill Cumorah’s, one in upstate New York and one in Mesoamerica somewhere. I used to think that as well 12 years ago, but to me there are so many leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that say the Hill in New York is the place that Joseph Smith received the plates and it is also the same hill in New York where the final battles of the Nephites vs Lamanites, and the final battle of the Jaredites (Hill Ramah) occured. (Ether 15:11 “And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.”) I believe the Hill Cumorah and the Hill Ramah are the very same hill in upstate New York, and there is not a second hill in Mesoamerica.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today are “neutral” in where the Book of Mormon events happened and that is fine for me as I follow the Prophet Russell M Nelson and the Twelve in doctrinal things. For you and I to take a neutral stand on secondary evidence is not required. The Lord told us to read and study, and in the promise to Moroni, He said we may know the truth of ALL things, and that would include knowing the location of the Book of Mormon events. I feel that the location of the many Book of Mormon events began in the United States of America. I will support and follow the Brethren where ever they say it is located,in doctrinal matters, but what if they never tell us and we find out it was our duty as Latter-day Saints to find this out on our own? What do you think? Please respond and vote. 1 or 2 Hill Cumorah’s?
Quotes from Prophets, Apostles, and Leaders
1. “If you live into the next century you will see evidence for the Book of Mormon come forth in droves.” Truman G. Madsen, speaking of what the Prophet Joseph Smith said to a colleague, in the opening statement of the 2005 video, “Journey of Faith.” 2. “…When…first commanded to testify of these things they [The Three Witness] demurred and told the Lord the people would not believe them for the book concerning which they were to bear record told of a people who were educated and refined, dwelling in large cities; whereas all that was then known of the early inhabitants of this country was the filthy, lazy, degraded and ignorant savages that were roaming over the land. The Lord told us, in reply that he would make it known to the people that the early inhabitants of this land had been just such a people as they were described in the book, and he would lead them to discover the ruins of great cities, and they should have abundant evidence of the truth of that which is written in the book…” – David Whitmer, Interview with James H. Hart (Richmond, Mo., 21 August 1883), as printed in Deseret Evening News, Salt Lake City, Utah 3. “The Hill Cumorah is situated in western New York. . . . It is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces, men, women and children, and fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . . The Hill Cumorah is remarkable also as being the hill on which and around which, a still more ancient nation perished, called Jaredites. . . . Millions fought millions, until the Hill Ramah, and the land round about, was soaked with blood.” Orson Pratt Millennial Star 28 (16 June 1866) 4. “The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.” F. Michael Watson, Secretary to the First Presidency, in a letter dated October 16, 1990 5. “The final struggles between Nephites and Lamanites were waged in the vicinity of the Hill Cumorah, in what is now the State of New York, resulting in the destruction of the Nephites as a nation, about 400 A.D. The last Nephite representative was Moroni, who, wandering for safety from place to place, daily expecting death from the victorious Lamanites, wrote the concluding parts of the Book of Mormon, and hid the record in Cumorah. It was this same Moroni who, as a resurrected being, gave the records into the hands of Joseph Smith in the present dispensation.” James Talmage Articles of Faith 6. “For many decades the Nephites retreated before their aggressive foes, making their way north-eastward through what is now the United States. About 400 A.D. the last great battle was fought near the hill Cumorah; and the Nephite nation became extinct. The degenerate remnant of Lehi’s posterity, the Lamanites or American Indians, have continued until this day. Moroni, the last of the Nephite prophets, hid away the record of his people in the hill Cumorah, whence it has been brought forth by divine direction in the current dispensation. That record is now before the world translated through the gift and power of God, and published to the edification of all nations, as the BOOK OF MORMON.” Jesus the Christ, p. 743
7. “Joseph then went to the locality specified by the angel, on the side of a hill called in the record Cumorah, and immediately identified the spot that had been shown him in vision. By the aid of a lever he removed a large stone, which proved to be the cover of a stone box wherein lay the plates and other articles described by Moroni. The angel appeared at the place, and forbade Joseph to remove the contents of the box at that time. The young man replaced the massive stone lid and left the spot. Four years later, the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate were delivered into Joseph’s keeping by the angel Moroni. This Moroni, who now came as a resurrected being, was the last survivor of the Nephite nation; he had completed the record, and then shortly before his death had hidden away the same in the hill Cumorah, whence it was brought forth through his instrumentality and delivered to the modern prophet and seer, Joseph Smith, September 22, 1827. That record, or, strictly speaking a part thereof, is now accessible to all; it has been translated through divine instrumentality and is now published in many languages as the Book of Mormon.” Jesus the Christ, p. 767 8. “I marvel at the miracle of America, the land which the God of Heaven long ago declared to be a land choice above all other lands and concerning which He has made a promise and given a warning in these remarkable words: ‘Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ’(Ether 2:12.) “God bless America, for she is His creation.”Hinckley, Gordon B., National Advisory Council of BYU College of Business November 2, 1973. 9. Certain lands were given to Israel for an inheritance in time and in eternity. America is the land of Joseph; it was the home of Nephite Israel, who were of Joseph, for a thousand years, and it is the headquarters of the Church in this final dispensation in which the church and kingdom of God are in the lands of Ephraim.” McConkie, Bruce R., A New Witness for the Articles of Faith [1985], 511. 10. “The Lord gave a divine promise to the ancient inhabitants of this favored country (the United States): ‘Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ (Ether 2:12).” Monson, Thomas S., Teachings of Thomas S. Monson [2011], 14-15. 11. “In the face of this evidence coming from the Prophet Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer, we cannot say that the Nephites and Lamanites did not possess the territory of the United States and that the Hill Cumorah is in Central America. Neither can we say that the great struggle which resulted in the destruction of the Nephites took place in Central America. If Zelph, a righteous man, was fighting under a great prophet-general in the last battles between the Nephites and Lamanites; if that great prophet-general was known from the Rocky Mountains to “the Hill Cumorah or eastern sea,” then some of those battles, and evidently the final battles did take place within the borders of what is now the United States. There were no righteous prophets, save the Three Nephites, after the death of Moroni, and we learn that Zelph was slain during one of these battles during the great last struggle between the Nephites and Lamanites and was buried near the Illinois River. In the Book of Mormon story the Lamanites were constantly crowding the Nephites back towards the north and east. If the battles in which Zelph took part were fought in the country traversed by the Zion’s Camp, then we have every reason to believe from what is written in the Book of Mormon, that the Nephites were forced farther and farther to the north and east until they found themselves in the land of Ripliancum, which both Ether and Mormon declare to us was the land of Ramah or Cumorah, a land of “many waters,” which “by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all.” This being true, what would be more natural then that Moroni, like his father Mormon, would deposit the plates in the land where the battles came to an end and the Nephites were destroyed? This Moroni says he did, and from all the evidence in the Book of Mormon, augmented by the testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith, these final battles took place in the territory known as the United States and in the neighborhood of the Great Lakes and hills of Western New York. And here Moroni found the resting place for the sacred instruments which had been committed to his care.” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 3 Ch. 12 12. “At one time a fierce battle was fought near where Buffalo, N.Y., now stands, wherein two million were lying strewn upon the earth, slain in battle and no one to bury them, till the stench drove them southward to the Hill Ramah, which was called Cumorah by the Nephite race.” Reminiscences of Joseph the Prophet, by Edward Stevenson 1893 13. “It was at this time that Mormon deposited in the Hill Cumorah all the records that had been entrusted to him except a few plates that he gave to his son Moroni. (See Mormon 6.) About A.D. 420, Moroni placed these plates with those his father, Mormon, had already deposited in the hill. (See Moroni 10:1-2.)” A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, p. 73. By LeGrand Richards 14. “This Book, which contained these things, was hid in the earth by Moroni, in a hill called by him, Cumorah, which hill is now in the State of New York, near the village of Palmyra, in Ontario County.” Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, p. 43. 15. “[Joseph] went [into] a Cave in the Hill Comoro with Oliver Cowdry & deposited those plates upon a table or shelf. In that room were deposited a large amount of gold plates containing sacred records… Joseph Smith said that cave contained tons of choice treasures & records.” Wilford Woodruff Journal, 11 December 1869
Art by Jon McNaughton
16. “Joseph and others… went into a cave in the hill Cumorah, and saw more records than ten men could carry… There were books piled up on tables, book upon book. Those records this people will yet have, if they accept of the Book of Mormon and observe its precepts, and keep the commandments.” Heber C. Kimball 17. “Most of the grounds mentioned had undoubtedly been scenes of hard-fought battles, of which the [Iroquois] Indians had preserved unpleasant traditions, for such was their abhorrence of scenes enacted here that never, except in a few rare instances, could they be induced to visit the spot near the old fort and burying ground. They turned from it with a sort of shudder, exclaiming, “Oie-qneh sa-he-eh! — ‘Tis the field of blood!’” – W.W. Clayton, History of Onondaga County, New York, D. Mason & Co., Syracuse, NY, 1878, p. 33. (Pictured is Gadji-Nonda-He (aka Robert David) – Iroquois (Cayuga),1901.) 18. “Just before the Camp passed from Illinois across the Mississippi river into Missouri, Joseph with Brigham Young and others went up on one of the mounds in the neighborhood to obtain a view of the great river, called the Father of Waters. Here they found an altar built according to the ancient style, and from its foot they dug up the skeleton of a man. They were surprised to find an arrow-head between the ribs. It was revealed to the Prophet that this was the remains of Zelph, a white Lamanite and a mighty man of God, who had fought as a chieftain under the Prophet Omandagus [sp]. He was killed in battle during the last great struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites. Of course, we know it was not in the last battle of the struggle because that was fought around the hill Cumorah. What a glorious gift is the inspiration of God!” The Latter-day Prophet, History of Joseph Smith, Written for Young People page 100-101 by George Q. Cannon Illustrated and Published at Juvenile Instructor Office Salt Lake City, Utah 1900 19. “President [Heber C.] Kimball talked familiarly to the brethren about Father Smith, [Oliver] Cowdery, and others walking into the hill Cumorah and seeing records upon records piled upon table[s,] they walked from cell to cell and saw the records that were piled up. . . .” Manuscript History of Brigham Young, 5 May 1867 20. “The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon… definitely establish the following facts: That the Hill Cumorah, and the Hill Ramah are identical; that it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites, fought their great last battles; that it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his son, Moroni. We know positively that it was in this hill that Moroni deposited the abridgment made by his father, and his own abridgment of the record of the Jaredites, and that it was from this hill that Joseph Smith obtained possession of them.” President Anthony W. Ivins of the First Presidency, April 1929 General Conference:
East Lawn of Red Brick Store. Fence is the Joseph Smith Family Cemetery and Nephite Cemetery
21. “Another remark, I would esteem it one of the greatest blessings, if I am to be afflicted in this world, to have my lot cast where I can find brethren & friends all around me, but this is not. thing. I referred to it is to have the privilige of having our dead buried on the land where god has appointd to gather his saints together,— & where there will be nothing but saints, where they may have the privelige of laying their bodies where the Son will make his appearance. & where they may hear the. sound of the trump that shall call them forth, to behold him, that in the morn of the resurrection, they may come forth in a body. & come right up out of their graves. & strike hands immediately in eternal glory. & felicity rather than to be scattered thousands of miles apart. There is something good. & sacred to me— in this thing. the place where a man is buried has been sacred to me.— this subjct is made mention of— In Book of Mormon & Scripturs. to the aborigines the burying places of their fathers is more sacred than any thing else.” Journal, December 1842–June 1844; Book 2, 10 March 1843–14 July 1843,” p. [141], The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed November 19, 2017, http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/journal-december-1842-june-1844-book-2-10-march-1843-14-july-1843/149 22.“The Book of Mormon tells us that America is a land of promise, a land choice above all other lands. Nephi said that whosoever should possess it must serve the God of the land or they would be swept off. And we have read in the Book of Mormon of the nations that have been swept off because they ceased to worship the God who had led them and their forefathers here to this land. We have a great responsibility as citizens in this land, for the Lord said that he would fight its battles and be its king, if we will just serve him. So it’s appropriate at this time that we express our appreciation for this great land. I like the words Moses used when he gave a blessing to the twelve tribes of Israel. When he blessed Joseph he promised him a new land in the utmost bowels of the everlasting hills (see Deut. 33:15). Now that isn’t in Jerusalem because they don’t have everlasting hills over there, and the prophets have never predicted a regathering of all nations to the land of Israel. But they have predicted the gathering of Israel to this land of America, which is the land of Joseph. And we are the only people in the world who know what that land is that Moses promised to Joseph. It was so great in his eyes as he received the revelations of the Holy Spirit that in describing the land he used the word “precious” five times in just four verses…We have so much to be grateful for. We are not here by chance. We are here because of the sacrifices of our pioneer fathers who came to this choice land that the Lord, according to the Book of Mormon, had hidden away from the eyes of the world that it should not be overrun. He preserved it for us, for the day and time in which we now live here in these valleys of the mountains.” Thanksgiving LEGRAND RICHARDS of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles Nov. 18, 1980 • Devotional
A Cocopah Indian Hut El Centro, CA
23. “Oliver Cowdery, even in that early day, had found the Navajos in the far Southwest, and he reported it to the brethren, feeling that it was a very important thing. Then Wilford Woodruff said this further, as he went down into the southwest, in New Mexico, and visited among the Indians there. He said: “In my short communication of the second inst., I promised to give a fuller account of my visit to the Isletas which I will now endeavor to do. The Isletas are one of the Pueblo groups down in New Mexico. I view my visit among the Nephites one of the most interesting missions of my life, although short. I say Nephites, because if there are any Nephites on this continent, we have found them among the Zunis, the Lagunas, and the Isletas, for they are a different race of people, altogether, from the Lamanites. I class the Navajo, Moquis (Hopis) and Apaches with the Lamanites, although they are in advance of many Indian tribes of America. I class the Zunis, Lagunas, and Isletas among the Nephites. And then he goes on to say, that as soon as they dismissed this particular meeting among the Isletas, and were going to leave, one of the Nephites arose. . . full of the spirit of the Lord and said, “Friends, why do you dismiss us and leave us this way? This is the first time we have heard of our forefathers and the gospel and the things we have looked for from the traditions of our fathers. If our wives and children are weary, let them go home. We want to hear more. We want you to talk all night. Do not leave us so.” The Work Among the Lamanites Elder Spencer W. Kimballl, Conference Report, October 1950, pp. 63-69 24. “And again, I command thee that thou shalt not covet thine own property, but impart it freely to the printing of the Book of Mormon, which contains the truth and the word of God—Which is my word to the Gentile, that soon it may go to the Jew, of whom the Lamanites are a remnant, that they may believe the gospel, and look not for a Messiah to come who has already come.” D&C 29:26-27 25.“It was at this time that Mormon deposited in the Hill Cumorah all the records that had been entrusted to him except a few plates that he gave to his son Moroni. (See Mormon 6.) About A.D. 420, Moroni placed these plates with those his father, Mormon, had already deposited in the hill. (See Moroni 10:1-2.)” A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, p. 73. 26. “As the fighting neared its end, Mormon gathered the remnant of his forces about a hill which they called Cumorah, located in what is now the western part of the state of New York…. When finished with the record, Moroni was to hide it up in that same Hill Cumorah which was their battlefield. It would come forth in modern times as the Book of Mormon, named after Moroni’s father, the historian who compiled it… His people were Americans, too. His words constituted a people-to-people message, ancient Americans speaking to modern Americans.” Mark E. Petersen Oct 1978 27. “The Book of Mormon reveals that Joseph, the son of Jacob who was once sold into Egypt, foresaw the Prophet Joseph Smith and his day (see 2 Ne. 3:6–21) and noted that there would be many similarities in their lives. Centuries later, the Prophet Joseph stated, “I feel like Joseph in Egypt.” (The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, ed. Dean C. Jessee, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1984, p. 409; spelling modernized.) The Book of Mormon reveals that the inheritance of Joseph, son of Israel, was not forgotten when, as promised in the Abrahamic covenant, land was distributed to the tribes of Israel. Joseph’s inheritance was to be a land choice above all others. (See Ether 13:2, 8.) It was choice not because of beauty or wealth of natural resources, but choice because it was chosen. It was to be the repository of sacred writing on plates of gold from which the Book of Mormon would one day come, choice because it would eventually host world headquarters of the restored church of Jesus Christ in the latter days.” A Treasured Testament By Elder Russell M. Nelson Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles JULY 1993 Adapted from an address given 25 June 1992 at a seminar for new mission presidents, Missionary Training Center, Provo, Utah. 28. “I should like to say a few words about America…No land is without its beauty, no people without their virtues, and I hope that you who come from elsewhere will pardon my saying a few words concerning my own native land, America…surely this is a good land, a choice land, a chosen land. To me it is a miracle, a creation of the Almighty.” Elder Gordon B. Hinckley. Oct. 29, 1974 Devotional 29. “Certain lands were given to Israel for an inheritance in time and in eternity. America is the land of Joseph; it was the home of Nephite Israel, who were of Joseph, for a thousand years, and it is the headquarters of the Church in this final dispensation in which the church and kingdom of God are in the lands of Ephraim.” 1985 – Elder Bruce R. McConkie 30. “The Lord gave a divine promise to the ancient inhabitants of this favored country (the United States): ‘Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ” (Ether 2:12). “Our Heavenly Father inspired the leaders of…the United States of America, that they might together, under His direction, having been raised up by God for the purpose, establish the Constitution of this country and…Bill of Rights, that by the year of our Lord 1805 [there would be] a climate where our Heavenly Father could send into this period of mortality a choice spirit who would be known as Joseph Smith, Jr.” 2011 President Thomas S. Monson 31. “I would that all men could believe in the destiny of America as did the early pioneers: that it is the land of Zion; that the founders of this nation were men of inspired vision; that the Constitution as written by the inspiration of heaven must be preserved at all costs. “I make a further plea that the citizens of this favored land live righteously that they might enjoy the fruits of their righteousness in this land of promise.” 1941 Harold B. Lee:
Joseph Smith and the Angel Moroni by Tom Holdman (Stained glass) Hill Cumorah Visitors Center, Palmyra, New York
One or Two Cumorah’s?
“Most members of the Church believe the Hill Cumorah is in New York. Church leaders have consistently taught this for over 150 years.
However, some intellectuals in the Church—including some faculty at BYU and some at CES—claim there are “two Cumorahs.” They rationalize that New York is too far from Central America (Mesoamerica) for the hill in New York to be the scene of the final battles of the Jaredites and the Nephites.
Because these intellectuals have trained thousands of LDS students for decades, their ideas have permeated the Church. The “two-Cumorahs” theory is being taught in some Church media and at Church visitors centers, but it has never been taught by a single member of the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve.
The efforts of the intellectuals have caused confusion among members and investigators. Recent discoveries in Church history reaffirm the original teaching that there is one Cumorah and it is in New York. For example, there is a lot of information in the book titled “Letter VII: Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery Explain the Hill Cumorah.” In response, many intellectuals are teaching their students that the prophets and apostles are wrong.
This summary of Church history will help members understand the issue, so they can support the Brethren when confronted with arguments against the New York Cumorah.
In 1834, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery decided to publish a series of letters about Church history in the Church newspaper titled The Messenger and Advocate. This was in response to anti-Mormon publications that were disrupting the missionary effort.
Oliver wrote the letters with Joseph’s assistance. They published eight letters between October 1834 and October 1835.
A section of Letter I is included as a footnote in the Pearl of Great Price at the end of Joseph Smith—History.
In December 1834, Joseph ordained Oliver Cowdery as Assistant President of the Church, explaining that this made him the spokesman. Joseph later referred to these letters as “President Cowdery’s letters.”
In Letter VII, published in July 1835, President Cowdery described the Hill Cumorah in New York. He explained that “at about one mile west rises another ridge of less height, running parallel with the former” and declares it was a “fact that here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed.” He emphasized that “in this valley fell the remaining strength and price of a once powerful people, the Nephites.” “This hill, by the Jaredites, was called Ramah; by it, or around it, pitched the famous army of Coriantumr their tent… The opposing army were to the west, and in this same valley, and near by.” He also explained that Mormon’s depository of Nephite records (Mormon 6:6) was in the same hill.
The entire First Presidency at the time endorsed these letters. Joseph Smith had President Frederick G. Williams begin the process of copying all eight letters into his history, which you can read in the Joseph Smith Papers in History, 1834-1836. (go to www.josephsmithpapers.org and search for “Letter VII.”) President Sidney Rigdon separately approved of them.
All members of the original Quorum of the Twelve (they were called and ordained by President Cowdery and others in February 1835) who ever mentioned Cumorah affirmed what Letter VII teaches, including Parley and Orson Pratt, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, and William Smith.
Letter VII was originally published in the Messenger and Advocate(1835) and copied into Joseph Smith, History, 1834-1835, shortly thereafter. It was republished in the Millennial Star(1840), the Times and Seasons (1841), the Gospel Reflector (1841), a special pamphlet in England (1844), The Prophet (1844), and The Improvement Era. Joseph referred to it in D&C 128:20, which was originally a letter published in the Times and Seasons a year after Letter VII was published in the same newspaper.
Over the years, multiple members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, speaking in General Conference, have affirmed the New York Cumorah. Elder James E. Talmage in Articles of Faithaffirmed it, as have other apostles, including LeGrand Richards in A Marvelous Work and a Wonder.
No member of the Twelve or First Presidency has ever said the Hill Cumorah was anywhere else.
Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Wilford Woodruff and others explained that on multiple occasions, Oliver and Joseph had actually visited Mormon’s depository of records in the Hill Cumorah, which explains why President Cowdery wrote that it was a fact that Cumorah was in New York.
The intellectuals nevertheless have framed Letter VII as “Oliver Cowdery’s opinion,” characterizing it as a false tradition that Joseph Smith passively accepted. They claim that all the other prophets and apostles who have affirmed the New York Cumorah were perpetuating this false tradition. They claim that Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Wilford Woodruff and others were mistaken because Oliver had merely told them about a vision of a hill in Mexico.
The intellectuals have rejected the New York Cumorah because they think it contradicts their preferred theory that the Book of Mormon took place in Mesoamerica. To persuade their students to agree with them, they have made a series of claims about archaeology, anthropology, geology, and geography, and they have insisted on an interpretation of the text that, they claim, makes the New York setting impossible. Lately, BYU and CES have been teaching students about the Book of Mormon by using a video-game-like fantasy mapthat depicts Cumorah in a mythical setting.
Although the consistent, repeated teachings of the prophets and apostles should be enough to settle this matter, there is evidence from archaeology, anthropology, geology, and geography that supports the New York Cumorah as the scene of the final battles of the Jaredites and the Nephites. There are dozens of archaeological sites in western New York, dating to Book of Mormon times, that contain artifacts from the Ohio Hopewell civilization (the archaeological and anthropological term for the people who correspond to the Nephites). Bushels of stone weapons have been recovered from the vicinity of Cumorah. Research in the area is ongoing.
When the Mesoamerica/two-Cumorahs theory began to be accepted by LDS intellectuals, Joseph Fielding Smith, then Church Historian and a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, released a statement that he later reiterated after he became President of the Quorum of the Twelve. He wrote, “Because of this theory some members of the Church have become confused and greatly disturbed in their faith in the Book of Mormon.” His prophetic warning against the efforts of the intellectuals remains as valid today as it was when he originally published it.”
I received an email a few years ago from a fellow Latter-day Saint and I found it most enjoyable to answer him. If someone is struggling with faith, many times a great part of the problem is struggling by not receiving answers that make sense to us. We have many Apologists in the Church who are trying to help.
I define myself as an Apologist or better a defender of truth about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As well, those on the Mesoamerican side of Geography, are also Apologists, which is defined as: “a person who defends or supports something (such as a religion, cause, or organization) that is being criticized or attacked by other people.” We just need to know by the Spirit which apologist to believe. Here is the email I received in blue:
“I have been a member of the LDS Church for 42 years having converted in my hometown Liverpool England at age 20 years of age. I have not been active in the Church for a number of years but always had a testimony despite my not being that active. I kept the word of wisdom and would defend the Church from critics.
I have recently had my doubts about the truthfulness of the Church having started to study the history of the Church and the things that have come to light such as Seer Stones, Joseph Smith polygamy, polyandry and the age of some of his wives. I have read articles from ex-members and non-members who are critical of the Church and they make some powerful points however, I look at all points of view and also read and view articles from Fair Mormon and Wayne May. One question I have is related to archaeology. I know that digs and excavations have taken place in Central and South America. Given the plates were buried in Hill Cumorah and that there was a battle conducted in the area why has there not been any digs or finds in that area that would correlate to the Book of Mormon people. I would be grateful if someone could respond.” Many Thanks John …
Below is the response I shared with him.
I received your email from Joseph Smith Foundation, who are my good friends named James Stoddard and the family including Hannah Leah, Isaiah, Ephraim and Mary. James oldest daughter, Hannah leads them very faithfully.. They are very active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as I am. I work with Rod Meldrum, and Jonathan Neville who are also very active members of the Church. I think the most important people for you to speak with about your questions are as follows:
#1 The Lord
#2 The Scriptures
#3 Your Bishop
#4 Church’s websitechurchofjesuschrist.org
#4 Apologists (Defined as people in good standing with the Church that share very informed opinions and serve as a strong defense for the Church), like us. *Don’t speak with someone who is opposed to your beliefs or Church. *Call on the Lord again and again and you can receive Personal Revelation
Remember all humans including Prophets, Bishops and members, make mistakes. Most of your answers should come from the scriptures and from the spirit of the Lord. You may not always feel you get answers that way, so at times we rely too much on the Church Prophet speaking as a man, or on a website or with an apologist, but we should then always take everything to the Lord for confirmation. Man has opinions and suggestions, but not ultimate answers of truth, as the Lord’s Spirit does testify.
Brigham Young said, “There is nothing that would so soon weaken my hope and discourage me as to see this people in full fellowship with the world and receive no more persecution from them because they are one with them. In such an event, we might bid farewell to the Holy Priesthood with all its blessings, privileges, and aids to exaltations, principalities and powers in the eternities of the Gods. (JD 10:32)” Brigham Young
Since your question is so important to me I want you to know where I am coming from so you can make up your own mind if I speak the truth or not. I want to give you the websites of some Apologists like me and the people above I mentioned that could help you.
I would like you to know the most important thing I learned from your email, is that you are hanging on [Better stated, Enduring to the end], due to your faith in the Savior. You understand that the only way to know the Book of Mormon is true is to read, ponder and pray about it, and if you are sincere, the Spirit will witness of its truthfulness as it has to you and it has to myself. If that book is true, then Joseph Smith is, and was a Prophet of the Lord Jesus Christ. Don’t get caught up in all the chatter about polygamy and seer stones until your faith is so strong that you absolutely know by the Spirit that the Book of Mormon is true. I will give you some ideas to help reduce that clutter as well.
Here is a wonderful article to read from Elder Holland that will explain that things of the Spirit and of the Head are both important, and those things we research and learn are a necessary second witnesses to the truth of the Book of Mormon. See the Article Here: and You Tube Here:
Understand there are many Apologists and most all of us love the Lord and this True Church, but we all have a different interpretation of some very important issues. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral on some positions that we as Apologists are not neutral. For example the Church is neutral on the questions about geography, evolution, and DNA. No apologist can receive revelation about any Doctrine of the Church. We can only share our personal witnesses and beliefs.
There are many complicated issues and the Church tells you many non-doctrinal answers on the Gospel Topic Essays Here. Since the Church is neutral on some of these issues, you will find that very few Apologists are neutral on their personal opinions. We each answer the questions below differently. There are however two main apologist groups.
1-Those who believe the Book of Mormon first events happened in Mesoamerica (Called M2C) which means they believe there are two Hill’s, one in NY where the plates were buried, and one on a hill someplace in Mexico where the final battles of the Book of Mormon happened). 2- Those like myself who believe the events of the Book of Mormon happened in the Heartland of the United States (Called the Heartland Model), we believe the Hill Cumorah in upstate NY is both the place the plates were found, and it is also the same place where the final battles happened for both the Nephites and the Jaredites.) Ether 15:11Mormon 6:6
There are over 50 other theories of where the events began or happened (Baja, South America, Malaysia, New York area, etc), but the above two are the majority of beliefs in the vast majority of the Church.
I am happy to answer where I stand on each subject listed below. It really comes down to this. Is there one Hill Cumorah which many Prophets and Apostles speak about [See Here], or are there two Hill’s as those with many different theories say, there has to be a 2nd Hill in Malaysia, Baja, South America, Mexico, Chile, etc. There is a third theory that is very small called the New York Theory, who believe in one Hill Cumorah but they believe all events happened only in New York around the Great Lakes which we think is too small of an area. I believe the Book of Mormon geography includes the City Zarahemla (D&C 125) which is across the Mississippi River from Nauvoo called Montrose, Iowa, and extends to Hill Cumorah in NY and is the area north of the Ohio River to the south.
Hinterland Theory or Limited Model [LM]
In the early 1900’s the Church and many others believed the entire South America was the land South and where the Lamanites lived, and the entire North America was North and where the Nephites lived, and the narrow Isthmus of Tehuantepec or Panama, between the two Continents was the narrow neck of land. This was called the “Hemispheric Theory” [HM] of the Book of Mormon, which the Mesoamerican Theory people, and the Heartland Theory people, don’t believe any more. Both groups believe in the Hinterland Model of LM. [As shown in the map left. Most all under stand the events of the Book of Mormon could not be held in that large of an area as the entire Western Continent. Both sides agree that Lehi traveled from Jerusalem paralleling the Red Sea and then heading east at Nahom to Oman near Khar Kharfoot, where the first Land Bountiful was. The M2Cer, believes that Lehi traveled east by boat toward India and around the Pacific Ocean to land near Guatemala and spreading out in a Limited area surrounding Mexico near Guatemala. Heartlanders believe Lehi traveled SW from Oman sailing around Africa and landed in the Gulf of Mexico near Tallahassee Florida [Both called Limited Models LM, or Hinterland Hypothesis].
Many Heartlanders are Conservative or believe in the Traditional history of the Church. Many in the M2C camp are more Liberal or Intellectual and believe in the Revisionist history of the Church. I feel many Traditional Mormons would answer questions about sensitive non-doctrinal issues, similar to me as follows:
DNA- We (Heartlanders) believe there is Hebrew DNA in many Native American Indians near the Great Lakes of the Algonquian and Iroquois tribes. Only Asian DNA has been found amongst the people of South, Central and Western America, such as amongst other Western Native Americans of the United States and Alaska. We believe most of those living in the South Pacific Islands are of Israelite blood, (Hagoth or Mixture of Joseph and Judah) We haven’t found Hebrew DNA markers for those in South and Central America. We have found DNA evidence of Natiive Americans in the Great Lakes area with Hebrew Haplogroup X, that is also found in the Jerusalem area. M2C believe the Asian DNA found in Central America is because the Asian population over took any Hebrew DNA that may have existed during the time of Lehi. Evolution: We do not believe a cat could evolve into a dog and we don’t believe an ape can evolve into Man. A poodle may be able to become a a different species of dog, however. We do believe in evolution defined as change or adaptation within a species. Most intellectuals believe we plausibly evolved from and ape. Translation of the Gold Plates: We believe they were translated by the gift and power of God, with Joseph using the breastplate and two clear stones in a silver bow (Like spectacles) attached to the breastplate [see JSH 1:35], that were found in the same hill as the plates. Most M2C followers believe the stone in the hat method of translation. Seer Stones: We believe Joseph had several seer stones that were used as beautiful stones or for faithful things by Joseph, but Joseph did not use the seer stones he found near Palmyra, by putting one or more stones into his hat to translate the the Book of Mormon. If he did use this method, he would be just reading words from a seer stone that someone gave him to be written down so he wouldn’t have “translated” the plates but just would have dictated the words to Oliver. Politics- We are mostly very conservative, love the US Constitution and our Founding Fathers. We believe in the right to bear arms and freedom of speech. Most of us don’t agree with many of the politics of liberal left leanings, and we love the great freedoms that have been given to us as conservatives. We don’t approve of the socialized version of big government. We believe in prayer to choose our best leaders. Polygamy- [better understood as “Celestial Plural Marriage” in the Church]. We believe Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were following the commandments of God just as Abraham and others were instructed. Satan just uses this highly controversial idea to get us to doubt things and creates evil ideas between sides. Only about 3% of the entire church ever practiced polygamy, [Celestial Plural Marriage]. We believe when the Lord commands us, we should listen. Joseph Smith restored an important part of the Gospel. Science- We believe the dinosaurs lived during the Old Testament and were created just before Adam, and were killed during the great world wide flood. We also believe that most rocks you see today were created during the flood which was an event that happened at about 2345 BC. Most Intellectuals believe the dinosaurs are millions of years old and some believe the flood was a regional flood, as Heartlanders believe the flood was universal. Creationism- We believe Adam was the first man on earth and Eve the first woman placed on this earth around 4,000 BC, and the earth is only about 13,000 years old, [Young Earth] but the material of the earth is billions of years old, or eternal, as matter cannot be created but has existed forever. Many intellectuals believe the earth is 4.5 billion [Old Earth] years old as the consensus on google says. Many M2Cer also believe in cave men and men on earth before Adam. We don’t.
Just so you know, many who we call the M2C [Mesoamerican 2 Cumorah] theory, do not believe the way many Traditionalists believe. Those of the M2C theory are just as valiant as Heartlanders are in the Church, and both are trying to help others as we are. We just have different beliefs is some matters that are not doctrinal.
Below are the websites that believe M2C: Also many BYU professors are part of these websites. Some of these websites are listed on the Church website as approved Apologists for the Church. What that means to many on these M2C websites is they are neutral on the questions I answered, which I don’t believe. I believe many in these organizations are against Heartlanders beliefs about geography, translation instruments, age of earth and other non-doctrinal issues. Heartlanders are not neutral on geography, as we believe there is only one Hill Cumorah, and the final battles happened around the Hill Cumorah, and the majority believe Joseph did not use a rock in a hat to translate, but as scripture says, in JSH 1:35, and other places, that Joseph used the breastplate and the spectacles that were in the stone box with the gold plates. Please don’t just take my word for it, read and ponder and pray and the Lord will help you.
Here are several articles I wrote about artifacts found around Hill Cumorah. At my blog, just do a search for any subject and you will find some help. https://bookofmormonevidence.org/many-bones-at-cumorah/ https://bookofmormonevidence.org/history-near-hill-cumorah/
https://bookofmormonevidence.org/cumorah-not-a-clean-hill/
I love truth and it is seldom an easy thing to find, yet finding it, is most enjoyable when we understand it. If we pass this test of life, as the Lord has promised we may have all the things that He has. I know part of the test is how we treat others who disagree with us. No one knows all truth, and we try and work together to ultimately live as the Savior wants, and build up the Kingdom of God on earth. What a wonderful goal to work towards. May the Lord bless you my friends.
Rian Nelson
Below is a video about coming together of two side’s with Rod Meldrum of FIRM Foundation speaking on the same stage at the FIRM Foundation Conference April 20, 2024, with new President of Scripture Central [Book of Mormon Central] Richard Ferguson, about working together to find truth about the Book of Mormon.
We don’t have to be afraid to dissent about many secondary evidences of the Book of Mormon, as long as we are informed. In other words, when we explore and research and prayerfully decide about where the geography of the Book of Mormon began, or if there was one or two Hill Cumorah’s, as we are informed and feel a spirit of personal revelation, we should dissent against those who may disagree. Not argue or disparage others, but simply dissent based on our personal revelation. In fact, a testimony comes with the confirmation of the spirit after reading and praying about the truth of the Book of Mormon, which is all you need at the beginning, and then you must continue to read and pray all the days of your life to keep that strong testimony.
Be Unafraid to Dissent
We should as Harold B. Lee said, “Be Unafraid to Dissent – If we are Informed.” I love learning and being informed, and with my quest for truth, I explore truth with fervor and confirm it with the Spirit of Christ.” I am not speaking about doctrine or about revelation of prophets, but only about secondary evidence or personal revelation.
As Elder Holland said, “Truly rock-ribbed faith and uncompromised conviction comes with its most complete power when it engages our head as well as our heart… Truth borne by the Holy Spirit comes with, in effect, two manifestations, two witnesses if you will—the force of fact as well as the force of feeling… but not to seek for and not to acknowledge intellectual, documentable support for our belief when it is available is to needlessly limit an otherwise incomparably strong theological position and deny us a unique, persuasive vocabulary in the latter-day arena of religious investigation and sectarian debate.” The Greatness of the Evidence By Elder Jeffrey R. Holland August 16, 2017
Personal Revelation
Our Prophet, President Russell M. Nelson said, “You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.
President Russell M. Nelson
I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson
I agree with the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr., along with our current Prophet, Russell M. Nelson. I love them both and I know this Church is true and the Book of Mormon is the word of God. I realize that when the Prophet gives a revelation, it becomes doctrine, and I will always follow it as led by the Spirit. When the Leaders of the Church urge us or recommend something, they are doing their duty of warning, preaching, and trying to help us in this difficult world. Individual answers are all around each of us, and the Lord will guide us based on our faith, research, and study to know what is right. Personal revelation is most important as it comes from God. However, we must be hesitant to share personal revelation as if we are speaking for the Church or any other individual or Church leader. We are all accountable to Christ individually, not collectively.
Many quotes below feel true to me by personal revelation. Some of you may feel these are good quotes, but they are just opinions of good men. Some may feel there is no way these quotes could be true and especially not revelation. We are each free to choose what we believe of course. Please read, ponder, and pray about these quotes, whether they be true to you or not. As Moroni said, “we may know the truth of all things.”
Secondary Evidences
Knowing truth about secondary evidences of the Book of Mormon, such as it’s geography, the method of translation, the location of the final battles, or any other truth about this book, you can know the truth by personal revelation. Our Prophet and Apostles and other leaders may share with us personal information about secondary evidences, that we must validate by our own personal revelation. The Church is officially neutral on the location of Book of Mormon as I quote, “the Church’s only position is that the events the Book of Mormon describes took place in the ancient Americas. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/book-of-mormon-geography?lang=eng#p5
I love this quote by Hugh B. Brown: “I admire men and women who have developed the questing spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent – if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant. Only error fears freedom of expression.
“And while all members should respect, support, and heed the teachings of the authorities of the church, no one should accept a statement and base his or her testimony upon it, no matter who makes it, until he or she has, under mature examination, found it to be true and worthwhile; then one’s logical deductions may be confirmed by the spirit of revelation to his or her spirit, because real conversion must come from within.” Apostle Hugh B. Brown, “A Final Testimony,” from An Abundant Life, 1999
I will summarize in brevity the two main theories of the Book of Mormon. There are many other theories as well. You can know truth about non-doctrinal issues and difficult questions through diligence and confirmation of the Spirit. My faith is in the Lord and I know Pres Nelson is a prophet of God as was Joseph Smith, and I have found many secondary truths about the Book of Mormon through hard work and diligence and prayer. About 45 years ago I felt the Mesoamerican theory was correct, but in the past 14 years, I firmly believe in the Heartland Model for Book of Mormon Geography. It came from personal witnesses and experiences.
Does it matter where the Book of Mormon events happened? Yes in my opinion, as it has strengthened my testimony and added great impact to it. I don’t mind what others believe about geography, as this is my personal witness.
Two Theories Researched
1) Five Mesoamerican Theory Keys
1.The Hill in Ontario, New York by Palmyra, is the Hill the gold plates were found by Joseph Smith, but not necessarily “The hill Cumorah” . Similarly in the Church publication, “Saints” the name Cumorah is never used, but just referred to as, “hill”. 2. Buried with the Gold Plates in New York was the Urim and Thummim, Breastplate, Liahona, and Sword of Laban. Five Items. There was not a separate cave at the hill in New York, but probably was a dream Joseph had, of a repository of many plates somewhere in Mexico.
Video from the Church History Museum in Salt Lake. Did Moroni hide the Liahona and Sword with the Gold Plates? NO!
3. The final battles between the Nephites and Lamanites was fought on some hill in Mexico yet to be named.
4. Zarahemla is located in several possible Mesoamerican locations as shown on the map below.
5. The Narrow Neck of Land is the Isthmus of Tehuantepec in Central America, where the land divides the sea. It is about 140 miles wide.
1.The Hill in Ontario, New York by Palmyra, is the only Hill Cumorah. 2.Buried with the Gold Plates in New York was the Urim and Thummim, and Breastplate Three Items. The Liahona and Sword were found in a separate repository in the Hill Cumorah called the Cave at Cumorah. Orson Pratt said, “The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . .These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)
3. The final battles between the Nephites and Lamanites was fought on the same hill Cumorah in New York where Joseph found the Gold Plates, Urim and Thummim, and Breastplate.
4. City of Zarahemla is located at Montrose, Iowa as a revelation from Joseph Smith said, “Let them build up a city unto my name upon the land opposite the city of Nauvoo, and let the name of Zarahemla be named upon it.” D&C 125:3
5. The Narrow Neck of Land is the Niagara Peninsula between Lake Ontario and Lake Erie, where the Seas divide the Land. It is between 3-24 miles wide from the north shore of Erie to the south shore of Ontario.
Basic Narrow Neck of Land 3 Miles wide from the Onondaga Formation to the south shore of ancient Lake Wainfleet. 24 miles wide from the north shore of Erie to the south shore of Lake Ontario.
Both the Mesoamerican Map and the Heartland Map are compared side by side below.
Compare side by side the United States map with what we call the Fantasy map of the Mesoamerican Theory. They both contain the same beginning points (South) to the ending points (North). However the Fantasy map of Mesoamerica has to be turned 90 degrees in order to have the North to South directions fit the text.
John Sorensen/Mesoamericanist
John Leon Sorenson (April 8, 1924 – December 8, 2021) was an American anthropologist, scholar and author. He was a professor of anthropology at Brigham Young University, and the author of An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon, as well as many other books and articles on the Book of Mormon and archaeology.
John Sorenson, seasoned Mormon scholar and early proponent of the Tehuantepec limited geography theory, has publicly bemoaned the overwhelming unlikeliness of locating Book of Mormon animals in the ancient New World without substantial reinterpretations of the text:
“What kind of animals did the Nephites have? The terms cattle, horses, sheep and so on are mentioned at several points in the Book of Mormon, in the Nephite record. And it is dismaying to some, some who wish to be dismayed, I believe, (and a few others who wish an answer could be provided) why there are not cows like we mean cows, horses like we mean horses, sheep like we mean sheep. The fact is, however, is that all the ancient studies say those animals simply were not present in the New World. Period. They were not here…
Well, 99.9% period. There is some little possibility of some horses as we know horses. The likelihood, however, is that we must go back to the text again, we see the internal having to articulate constantly with the external. We get some ideas from the internal, look outside, try to get enlightening, illuminating information, and then we may have to back into the text, and re-read it, and understand: “Let’s see now, when Mormon said this, what did really mean? Did he mean what I think he means? Or shall we read it the way he wrote it an meant it in his mind? We do not know that when he said ‘horse,’ he meant our kind of horse.” Sorenson, John L. “The Book of Mormon in Ancient America.” Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies Lecture Series. Provo. 1992.
Another Mesoamerican Theorist
“I would say in evaluating the Book of Mormon, it had no place in the New World whatsoever. And we’d have to look for the place of the Book of Mormon events to have taken place in the Old World. It just doesn’t seem to fit anything that he [John Carlson] has been taught in his discipline, nor I in my discipline in anthropology, history; there seems to be no place for it. It seems misplaced. It seems like these are anachronisms. It seems like the items are out of time and place, and trying to put them into the New World. And I think there’s a great difficulty here for we Mormons in understanding what this book is all about.” Matheny, Raymond T. “Book of Mormon Archaeology: What Does the Evidence Really show?” Sunstone Symposium. 25 Aug. 1984.Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1993
Leaders Quotes about the Heartland Model
Letter VII
“At about one mile west rises another ridge of less height, running parallel with the former, leaving a beautiful vale between. The soil is of the first quality for the country, and under a state of cultivation, which gives a prospect at once imposing, when one reflects on the fact, that here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed…
…Here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed. By turning to the 529th and 530th pages of the Book of Mormon, you will read Mormon’s account of the last great struggle of his people, as they were encamped round this hill Cumorah. In this valley fell the remaining strength and pride of a once powerful people, the Nephites—once so highly favored of the Lord, but at that time in darkness, doomed to suffer extermination by the hand of their barbarous and uncivilized brethren. From the top of this hill, Mormon, with a few others, after the battle, gazed with horror upon the mangled remains of those who, the day before, were filled with anxiety, hope, or doubt.” Oliver Cowdery’s Letter VIIJoseph Smith Papers “Letter VII,” LDS Messenger and Advocate, July 1835, 1:155–159
“…Here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed. By turning to the 529th and 530th pages of the Book of Mormon, you will read Mormon’s account of the last great struggle of his people, as they were encamped round this hill Cumorah. In this valley fell the remaining strength and pride of a once powerful people, the Nephites—once so highly favored of the Lord, but at that time in darkness, doomed to suffer extermination by the hand of their barbarous and uncivilized brethren. From the top of this hill, Mormon, with a few others, after the battle, gazed with horror upon the mangled remains of those who, the day before, were filled with anxiety, hope, or doubt.” Oliver Cowdery’s Letter VII Joseph Smith Papers “Letter VII,” LDS Messenger and Advocate, July 1835, 1:155–159 .
I believe this quote above, written by Oliver Cowdrey who at the time was the Assistant President of the Church with Joseph Smith. It is clear as Oliver states, “when one reflects on the fact”, that this is a declaration of truth from Oliver. If you think this was just Oliver’s opinion, read below what Joseph Fielding Smith says about these 8 Letters that Oliver Cowdery wrote to W.W. Phelps.
I also believe that Joseph used the Urim and Thummim and Breastplate to translate and he never used a single stone in a hat to translate. As in “Letter I” there is a canonized quote from the scriptures saying, “Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’” JSH 1:75*
VOICE FROM CUMORAH
“PROPHET APPROVES OLIVER COWDERY’S VIEWS. The quibbler might say that this statement from Oliver Cowdery is merely the opinion of Oliver Cowdery and not the expression of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It should be remembered that these letters in which these statements are made were written at the Prophet’s request and under his personal supervision. Surely, under these circumstances, he would not have permitted an error of this kind to creep into the record without correction.
At the commencement of these historical letters is found the following: “That our narrative may be correct, and particularly the introduction, it is proper to inform our patrons, that our Brother J. Smith Jr., has offered to assist us. Indeed, there are many items connected with the fore part of this subject that render his labor indispensable. With his labor and with authentic documents now in our possession, we hope to render this a pleasing and agreeable narrative, well worth the examination and perusal of the saints. “236. 24
Later, during the Nauvoo period of the Church, and again under the direction of the Prophet Joseph Smith, these same letters by Oliver Cowdery, were published in the Times and Seasons, without any thought of correction had this description of the Hill Cumorah been an error.” 236. 25 Joseph Fielding Smith Doctrines of Salvation Volume 3 Chapter 12 A VOICE FROM CUMORAH
Below are quotes about some theories [Mainly Mesoamerican and Heartland] of where the Book of Mormon events began. In my opinion I agree with Elder Perry and Pres Monson as stated below and in other quotes as well, who I think leaned towards a Heartland theory.
L. Tom Perry
“The United States is the promised land foretold in the Book of Mormon—a place where divine guidance directed inspired men to create the conditions necessary for the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.” Elder L. Tom Perry Ensign Dec. 2012
Thomas S. Monson
“The Lord gave a divine promise to the ancient inhabitants of this favored country (the United States): ‘Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ” (Ether 2:12).
“Our Heavenly Father inspired the leaders of…the United States of America, that they might together, under His direction, having been raised up by God for the purpose, establish the Constitution of this country and…Bill of Rights, that by the year of our Lord 1805 [there would be] a climate where our Heavenly Father could send into this period of mortality a choice spirit who would be known as Joseph Smith, Jr.” Teachings of Thomas S. Monson by Thomas S. Monson2011 (Ordained an Apostle, 1963; ordained President of the Church, 2008)
Editors Opinion
It is my strong opinion that President Monson believes the United States is the Promised Land of the Book of Mormon. Why do Mesoamericanists believe the entire continent of the Americas is the Promised land? To fit their narrative I guess. You mean Greenland, Guatemala, and the Northwest Territories are the Promised Land spoken of in the book of Mormon? I love all of God’s children in the entire world and God loves us all the same, but seriously? If a person from Greenland comes to the United States legally as a citizen that person can also live in the Promised Land, correct? I’m sure Greenland has much beauty on its own, but it is not the Promised Land, is it? I am not belittling other lands. I’m just making a legitimate statement. Why is the United States and Israel the two Promised Lands? Because Christ said so. See 3 Nephi 20:22,29
Gordon B. Hinckley
“I should like to say a few words about America…No land is without its beauty, no people without their virtues, and I hope that you who come from elsewhere will pardon my saying a few words concerning my own native land, America…surely this is a good land, a choice land, a chosen land. To me it is a miracle, a creation of the Almighty.” Gordon B. Hinckley Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled”, BYU Speeches of the Year, October 29, 1974, pp. 267-68
Joseph Smith Jr./ Emma’s Letter and Wentworth Letter
“The whole of our journey, in the midst of so large a company of social honest and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity… During our travels we visited several of the mounds which had been thrown up by the ancient inhabitants of this country-Nephites, Lamanites, etc.” Joseph Smith Papers Letter to Emma Smith, 4 June 1834 Page 56
The witness of Joseph Smith in his letter to Emma [above] on June 4, 1834 along with the following quote from the Wentworth Letter are two of the most convincing witnesses of the Book of Mormon events beginning in North America.
“In this important and interesting book the history of ancient America is unfolded, from its first settlement by a colony that came from the Tower of Babel at the confusion of languages to the beginning of the fifth century of the Christian era. We are informed by these records that America in ancient times has been inhabited by two distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites and came directly from the Tower of Babel. The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites of the descendants of Joseph. The Jaredites were destroyed about the time that the Israelites came from Jerusalem, who succeeded them in the inheritance of the country. The principal nation of the second race fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country...” Wentworth Letter reprinted in Ensign July 2002
Mark E. Petersen
“I do not believe that the classrooms or the pulpits of our Church are for laboratory purposes in which to experiment with new doctrines and speculative notions. They are exclusively for the use of those who are willing to convert men and women and boys and girls to the truth. . . . I do not believe we should give credence to the highly speculative theories about Book of Mormon geography. I do not believe that there were two Hill Cumorahs, one in Central America and the other one up in New York, for the convenience of the Prophet Joseph Smith, so that the poor boy would not have to walk clear to Central America to get the gold plates. I do not believe we can be good Latter-day Saints and question the integrity of Joseph Smith. I do not believe we can be good Latter-day Saints and question the testimony of the eleven witnesses of the Book of Mormon. I do not believe you have a testimony of the truth if you question the accuracy of the translation of the Book of Mormon.” Mark E. Petersen LDS Conference Reports, Sunday afternoon, April 5, 1953
Joseph Fielding Smith
“This modernistic theory of necessity, in order to be consistent, must place the waters of Ripliancum and the Hill Cumorah some place within the restricted territory of Central America, notwithstanding the teachings of the Church to the contrary for upwards of 100 years. Because of this theory some members of the Church have become confused and greatly disturbed in their faith in the Book of Mormon. It is for this reason that evidence is here presented to show that it is not only possible that these places could be located as the Church has held during the past century, but that in very deed such is the case… It is known that the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites were destroyed is the hill where the Jaredites were also destroyed. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Ramah. It was approximately near to the waters of Ripliancum, which the Book of Ether says, “by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all…
It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains. Moreover, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record, definitely declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon. Further, the fact that all of his associates from the beginning down have spoken of it as the identical hill where Mormon and Moroni hid the records, must carry some weight. It is difficult for a reasonable person to believe that such men as Oliver Cowdery. Brigham Young, Parley P. Pratt, Orson Pratt, David Whitmer, and many others, could speak frequently of the Spot where the Prophet Joseph Smith obtained the plates as the Hill Cumorah, and not be corrected by the Prophet, if that were not the fact. That they did speak of this hill in the days of the Prophet in this definite manner is an established record of history.” Doctrines of Salvation Joseph Fielding Smith Chapter 12
James E. Talmage
“The final struggles between Nephites and Lamanites were waged in the vicinity of the Hill Cumorah, in what is now the State of New York, resulting in the destruction of the Nephites as a nation, about 400 A.D. The last Nephite representative was Moroni, who, wandering for safety from place to place, daily expecting death from the victorious Lamanites, wrote the concluding parts of the Book of Mormon, and hid the record in Cumorah. It was this same Moroni who, as a resurrected being, gave the records into the hands of Joseph Smith in the present dispensation.” James Talmage Articles of Faith
Ezra Taft Benson
“When this nation was established, the Church was restored and from here the message of the restored gospel has gone forth-all according to divine plan. This then becomes the Lord’s base of operations in these latter days. And this base-the land of America—will not be shifted out of its place. This nation will, in a measure at least, fulfill its mission even though it may face serious and troublesome days. The degree to which it achieves its full mission depends upon the righteousness of its people. God, through His power, has established a free people in this land as a means of helping to carry forward His purposes. It was His latter-day purpose to bring forth His gospel in America, not in any other place. It was in America where the Book of Mormon plates were deposited. That was no accident. It was His design. It was in this same America where they were brought to light by angelic ministry. [1]. It was here where He organized His modern Church, where He, Himself, made a modern personal appearance [2]; [3]. It was here under a free government and a strong nation that protection was provided for His restored Church. Now God will not permit America, His base of operations, to be destroyed. He has promised protection to this land if we will but serve the God of the land [4]. He has also promised protection to the righteous even, if necessary, to send fire from heaven to destroy their enemies [5]. No, God’s base of operations will not be destroyed.”
Heartland Theorists
“After reading a paper by a Latter-day Saint author who had “come to the conclusion that there was nothing to be found in the Central American setting that convinced him that the Book of Mormon belonged there,” Duane Aston asked himself, “what if the Book of Mormon did not belong in Central America? [and] if Book of Mormon lands were not located in Central America, then where might they belong?” Aston then describes what followed: “The only reasonable possible solution that came to my mind was New York. What if the setting for the Book of Mormon was anciently located in the lands that we know as New York? . . . Might this location serve as a starting point to begin a search for the geography of the Book of Mormon? The more I studied and researched upon the matter, the more I became convinced that indeed the Book of Mormon itself contained sufficient clues that could resolve the issue of the geography of the Book of Mormon. The Lord showed Nephi that “many multitudes of Gentiles” would come “upon the land of promise.” (1 Nephi 13:14-16). What other people could this refer to, other than those Gentiles, pilgrims, who had come to occupy eastern United States and Canada in colonial times?” 1998 Duane R. Aston Return to Cumorah: Piecing Together the Puzzle Where the Nephites Lived, Sacramento: American River Publications [pp. 2-3]
“The Book of Mormon records that due to the wickedness of the Nephite civilization they were destroyed by their brothers the Lamanites. The final battles of this unholy war took place near a hill that was called Cumorah. At Cumorah, hundreds of thousands of Nephites were slain, and the prophet/historian Moroni buried the history of his people in that hill (Mormon 6:2-15; 8:1-5). Hundreds of years later, that same history was unearthed in upstate New York, by the boy prophet Joseph Smith and translated to become the Book of Mormon (Joseph Smith–History 1:51-52).
Non-Mormon Theorists
“When Joseph Smith made his “fantastic” claims and published the Book of Mormon as an ancient history of the American Indians, some scoffed at the idea that a major battle had anciently taken place in the local vicinity. However, evidence was soon produced that documented that this region of the country did indeed once possess a heavy Indian population, and that a terrible battle had taken place in that locality.
Writing in 1851, E. G. Squier says that in the region: “Human bones of men, women, and children of both sexes were thrown together promiscuously by the thousands.” He notes large quantities of pottery, pipes, flint arrow-heads, stone hatchets and other implements were also found there. He further states that the ancient relics unearthed in the vicinity (which he estimates to be several hundred years old) showed considerable evidence of Hebrew origin.” (See E. G. Squier, Antiquities of New York, 1851, pp. 137-138.)
In New York State Bulletin #2 it is documented that several miles south of “Mormon Hill,” as it was then called, a site was found where flint arrowheads and spear points and many unfinished weapons were found in great abundance. All of the above sources are cited in Brenton G. Yorgason, Little Known Evidences of the Book of Mormon, 1989, p. 10.
Heber J. Grant
“While listening to the remarks of Brother Ivins, referring to a book that was written by one of our enemies, in which the statement is made that there is not a particle of evidence to show that there is any trace of the Hebrew among the people who anciently inhabited this country, and that there is no evidence that would go to prove that the Book of Mormon is true. I was reminded of a little item of evidence that came under my observation while I was in the City of London. A gentleman there, to whom a very dear friend of mine, Col. Alex. G. Hawes, had given me a letter, kindly invited a number of newspaper men to his home to meet me. I am very sorry that the newspaper men declined the honor; but I had the privilege of meeting with this man and his family, and a few friends, and conversing with them. One of his friends had been a member of the British legation at Constantinople, and had spent a considerable portion of his life there. He had traveled all over the holy land, and was familiar with the people and their customs. Among other things, he said: “Mr. Grant, I was astonished beyond measure, when I visited Canada, to find there oriental patterns woven in beads, by the American Indians. They were the same patterns that were woven in rugs, in the oriental countries. I have traveled extensively, and I had never seen those oriental patterns in any part of the world except in the holy land, until I found them among the North American Indians. Those patterns have been handed down for hundreds of years, from generation to generation ; they are kept in families, and can be found nowhere else; and how under the heavens those Indians, who have no connection with the people of the holy land, should have the same patterns is a mystery to me.” “Well, mv friend,” I said, “if I were to inform you that the forefathers of these American Indians came from the city of Jerusalem, that would explain it, wouldn’t it?” He replied, “Well, of course, it would.” I asked him if he had ever read the Book of Mormon. He said, “No.” “Well, it will be my pleasure to send you a copy, and from it you will learn that the forefathers of the American Indians came from Jerusalem.” “Well,” he said, “that explains the mystery; I am much obliged for the book.” Now, the one thing for us to do, as Latter-day Saints, is to be loyal, to be true, to be patriotic, to be honest with God; then we need have no fear of what the world may say about us. We have the truth, and we know it, thank God; we know it, though the world may not know it. Let us follow the admonition of the Savior, and let our light so shine that other men seeing our good deeds shall glorify God.”
LETTER NO. 12
“…Cumorah, the artificial hill of north America, is well calculated to stand in this generation, as a monument of marvelous works and wonders. Around that mount died millions of the Jaredites; yea, there ended one of the greatest nations of this earth. In that day, her inhabitants spread from sea to sea, and enjoyed national greatness and glory, nearly fifteen hundred years. — That people forsook the Lord and died in wickedness. There, too, fell the Nephites, after they had forgotten the Lord that bought them. There slept the records of age after age, for hundreds of years, even until the time of the Lord: —
“An angel came down from the regions of glory
“And told that a record was hid in Cumorah,
“Containing the fulness of Jesus’s gospel,
“And also the cov’nant to gather his people.”
“There began the church of Christ in 1830; yea, there the stone cut out of the mountain without hands, as foretold by Daniel, commenced rolling to fill the earth, and may it continue, in a moral sense, in dreadful splendor, till it fills the whole, and wickedness is ended. So much for the Hill Cumorah…”
As ever,
W.W. PHELPS.
To Oliver Cowdery. LATTER DAY SAINTS’ MESSENGER AND ADVOCATE Vol. 1 No. 1 KIRTLAND, OHIO, 1834 Page 221
N. Eldon Tanner
“Nephi saw in vision also the coming of the Pilgrims, who came to escape religious persecution. He foresaw the coming to America of peoples from many nations, their wars and contentions. As Nephi said, they did humble themselves before the Lord. Thus the American colonies attained their independence and set up the government of the United States, all under the divine intervention of God in preparing this land for its divine destiny. We believe that both freedom and the continuing reformation that flourished here occurred in preparation for the restoration from heaven of the full gospel of Jesus Christ. That restoration began in the United States of America in the 1820s, through the [assistance] of the Prophet Joseph Smith, who was chosen by the Lord and who, through [visits] from heavenly messengers, received … records that contained the authentic record of early American peoples and God’s dealings with them. He received the priesthood and authority to reestablish the church of Jesus Christ in these latter days. At the time of this restoration, God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ actually appeared to Joseph Smith, as they had appeared to leaders of previous dispensations. They announced to him that Christ’s church would be reestablished upon the earth. … This restoration was the greatest event in the history of mankind since the birth, death, and resurrection of our Savior, Jesus Christ.” A Choice Land President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency
Evening and Morning Star
In the forepart of the last month, about three hundred and sixty Indian, of the Kickapoos and Pattowattamies, pitched their tents on the east before this town, and tarried one night. They were on their way to the place assigned them for the land of their inheritance, being gathered by the government of the United States… They have a prophet, in whom they place great confidence, and he instructs them that the day is nigh, when the Great Father will send his Son on the earth; then (as he says) white man and red man be one. Their idea of what is to come to pass in the last days, the resurrection of the righteous, and their living on earth with the Lord while wickedness ceases to trouble the saints, seem to be correct as far as we could ascertain. They are very devout apparently and pray night and morning; even children and all. They have two flat sticks about one foot long, tied together, on which are several characters, which, they say, the Great Father gave to their prophet, and mean as much as a large book. They say one of these sticks, is for the old book that white man has, (the Bible) the other for the new book, (Book of Mormon) white man has it written on paper, Great Father writes it in red man’s heart. They seem to Pray from these sticks– and worship on the Sabbath with great solemnity, commencing with a salutation from the greatest or oldest to the least that can walk, and ending with the same token of friendship. Should we have time to make them a visit, we may be more particular hereafter. *From Arkansas to the Missouri, the remnants are gathering together in rapid succession, and all, as far as we have been able to ascertain, have an idea that the Great Spirit is about to do something great and good for the red man. Evening and Morning Star (Kirtland 1835-1836 page 201 ISRAEL WILL BE GATHERED.
“The Book of Mormon reveals the inheritance of Joseph, son of Israel, who was not forgotten when land was distributed to the tribes of Israel. This was promised in the Abrahamic covenant… Josephs inheritance was to be a land choice above all others. Choice because it was chosen to be the repository of sacred writings on golden plates from which the Book of Mormon would one day come. Choice because it would eventually host the world headquarters of the Restored Church of Jesus Christ in the latter days. And it was choice because it was a land of liberty for those who worship the Lord and keep His commandments.” Russell M Nelson President, Quorum of 12 June, 2016 Provo Missionary Training Center
So as Harold B. Lee said, “Be Unafraid to Dissent – If we are Informed.” I love learning and being informed, and with my quest for truth, I explore truth with fervor and confirm it with the Spirit of Christ.” I am not speaking about doctrine or about revelation of prophets, but only about secondary evidence or personal revelation.
How you feel about geography or other non doctrinal issues is totally up to you, after much prayer and research. May the Lord bless us all.
There have been many witnesses of the events of the Book of Mormon beginning in the Heartland of the United States, by Prophets, Apostles, and other members of the church. Some were shared at General Conferences, some from church pulpits and some from the ordinary lives of our beloved Pioneers. All statements are important to read and reflect upon and search for the spirit of truth. For myself, knowing the Land of Joseph is indeed the Promised Land of America, is an important part of my testimony of the Book of Mormon. I will share why geography is important to me at the end of this blog.
Truman G. Madsen
“If you live into the next century you will see evidence for the Book of Mormon come forth in droves.” Truman G. Madsen, speaking of what the Prophet Joseph Smith said to a colleague, in the opening statement of the 2005 video, “Journey of Faith.”
F. Michael Watson
“The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.” F. Michael Watson, Secretary to the First Presidency, in a letter dated October 16, 1990
Anthony W. Ivins
“The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon and the more extended discussion of this subject by Elder B. H. Roberts which was published in The Deseret News of March 3 definitely established the following facts: That the hill Cumorah, and the hill Ramah are identical. That it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites fought their great last battles. That it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his son, Moroni. We know positivelythat it was in this hill that Moroni deposited the abridgment made by his father, and his own abridgment of the record of the Jaredites, and that it was from this hill that Joseph Smith obtained possession of them.
Ivins continued. “According to the Book of Mormon, many hundreds of thousands of people fell in battle around this hill and in the immediate vicinity. It was here that two once-powerful nations were exterminated so far as their national existence was concerned. It was here that these nations gathered together for their last great struggles.
All of these incidents to which I have referred, my brethren and sisters, are very closely associated with this particular spot in the state of New York. Therefore I feel, as I said in the beginning of my remarks, that the acquisition of that spot of ground is more than an incident in the history of the Church; it is an epoch—an epoch which in my opinion is fraught with that which may become of greater interest to the Latter-day Saints than that which has already occurred. We know that all of these records, all the sacred records of the Nephite people, were deposited by Mormon in that hill. That incident alone is sufficient to make it the sacred and hallowed spot that it is to us. I thank God that, in a way which seems to have been providential, it has come into the possession of the Church” The Hill Cumorah by President Anthony W. Ivins, Improvement Era, 1928, Vol. Xxxi. June, 1928 No. 8
Russell M. Nelson
Gerald Lund said, “In the fall of 2007, my assignment as a General Authority Seventy was in Salt Lake City, working in the Church Office Building. One day I went down to a small cafeteria in the basement of the Church Administration Building that is reserved for General Authorities. After getting my food, I saw that four of my colleagues in the Seventy were seated at a table for six, just starting to eat. They invited me to join them. We spoke briefly about our various assignments, but soon the talk turned to the current financial crisis. It didn’t take long for our conversation to become quite bleak in tone. One of the brethren had a grandchild who had recently graduated with an MBA but was having no luck in finding employment. Another reported that a grandchild was unsure about wanting to get married and bring children into the world.
About that time, as this cloud of gloom settled over our lunch table, Russell M. Nelson, then Elder Nelson of the Twelve, came into the lunchroom with a tray of food. Seeing that we had a vacant spot at our table, he joined us. He ate quietly for a time as our conversation went right on in that same sense of discouragement. Finally, one of the brethren said, “They’re talking about the possibility of the whole government of the United States failing. Then what shall we do?”
Elder Nelson, who hadn’t said much since sitting down, laid down his fork and looked at us directly. His expression was very sober as he spoke quietly, saying something like this: “Brethren, the Lord chose the United States of America as the place for the Restoration of the gospel in our dispensation. He did that so we would have a base of religious freedom that would sustain the work of the Restoration. Also, the financial affluence and the political stability of the United States makes it possible for our Church to take the gospel to the world. That is a task that is not yet finished. Brethren, the Lord is at the helm. He will not let this work fail.”
That was more than ten years ago, but I still vividly remember two things. First, how sheepish we felt for letting ourselves become so negative. And the second was the lesson taught: God is in control. Why then do we fear? It was a profound teaching moment, and I have reminded myself of that day often when I have found myself growing discouraged and pessimistic”. God is at the helm! by Elder Gerald N. Lund, adapted from “The Second Coming of the Lord” | Oct. 07, 2020See dozens of additional quotes here:
In the Midst of the Lamanites
“No,” said the old Patriarch [Joseph Smith Sr.], his whole being seeming to be alive with animation. “The Lord has told Joseph that when we leave here we will go into the Rocky Mountains, right into the midst of the Lamanites.”
This information filled our hearts with unspeakable joy, for we knew that the Book of Mormon and this gospel had been brought to light more for the remnants of Jacob upon this continent than for the Gentiles.
Father Smith again enjoined upon us profound secrecy in this matter, and I don’t think it was ever uttered by one of Father Huntington’s family.
The history of Nauvoo shows that we located in Nauvoo in 1839 and left it in 1846.
See Sources here: The Young Woman’s Journal, II, (December, 1890), pp. 124-125; (February, 1891), pp. 225-226; (April, 1891), pp. 314-315; (May, 1891), p. 366; (July, 1891), pp. 466-468; IV (March, 1893), pp. 274-275; (April, 1893) pp. 320-321; (June, 1893), pp. 424-425; Hyrum L. Andrus and Helen Mae Andrus, comps., They Knew the Prophet [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1974], 63
A Veritable Swamp
“When President Young visited the proposed sites, he requested that his teamster conduct the party to the lowest place in the valley, a veritable swamp infested with marsh-grass and cattails. Pointing out the marsh to the brethren, he explained that the [St. George] Temple must be built at that place, because the Nephites had previously dedicated that very site for the erection of a Temple, but had been unable to bring their hopes to a full fruition.” McGavin, E. Cecil, 1935, Mormonism and Masonry, Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret News Press, p. 156
This Spot was Dedicated by the Nephites
Another account by David Henry Cannon Jr., a witness to the event, says:
By Al Round
To the South, they finally stopped. ‘But, Brother Young,’ protested the men, ‘this land is boggy . . . There is no place to build a foundation. We will make a foundation, said President Young. Later on while plowing and scraping where the foundation was to be, my horse’s leg broke through the ground into a spring of water. The brethren then wanted to move the foundation line twelve feet to the south, so that the spring of water would be on the outside of the Temple. Not so,’ replied President Young, ‘We will wall it up and leave it here for some future use. But we cannot move the foundation. This spot was dedicated by the Nephites. They could not build it (the Temple), but we can and will build it for them.’ To this day the water from that very spring is running through a drain properly built for it.” Heinerman, Joseph, 1986, Temple Manifestations, Salt Lake City Utah: Joseph Lyon and Associates, Inc. dba Magazine Printing and Publishing, pp. 60-
Prophet Moroni Stood and Dedicated this Piece of Land
Once, Brigham Young, accompanied by Warren S. Snow, went to where they would build the Manti Temple. Warren S. Snow said:
Native American – Minerva Teichert and the Manti Temple
“We two were alone: President Young took me to the spot where the Temple was to stand; we went to the southeast corner, and President Young said: ‘Here is the spot where the Prophet Moroni stood and dedicated this piece of land for a Temple site, and that is the reason why the location is made here, and we can’t move it from this spot; and if you and I are the only good persons that come here at high noon today, we will dedicate this ground.’ A Source Book, Provo, UT: FARMS; Whitney, Orson F., 1974, Life of Heber C. Kimball, Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, p. 477; Cheesman, Paul R., 1978, The World of the Book of Mormon, Horizon Publishers, Bountiful, Utah, p. 25; Heinerman, Joseph, 1986, Temple Manifestations, Salt Lake City, Utah: Joseph Lyon and Associates, Inc. dba Magazine Printing and Publishing, p. 101
Gadianton Robbers
Upon one occasion President Brigham Young was in the Tabernacle at St. George and was speaking on the spirit world. He stated that it was not far from us and if the veil could be taken from our eyes there wouldn’t be either a man, woman or child who would dare go out of “this tabernacle as the spirits of the Gadianton robbers were so thick out there. This is where they lived in these mountains,” said he.” Crowther, Duane S., 1967, Life Everlasting, Bookcraft, SLC, UT, p. 165, as quoted from N. B. Lundwall, Temples of the Most High, p. 89.
“Of course, the significance of this statement makes sense only in light of the land of Zarahemla being in the United States [D&C 125]. The Nephites wouldn’t have gone all the way from Mexico into the United States to hunt the Gadianton Robbers, nor would the Gadiantons have gone into the United States to hide from Nephites in Mexico. It is clear that since the Gadianton Robbers were hiding out in Utah in the St. George region, the Land of Zarahemla must have been in the United States as well. The “mountains” mentioned in the following scriptures, therefore, are the Rocky Mountains of the United States.” Some references used from Joseph Smith Foundation Website
A Nephite or a Jaredite?
EXPERIENCE OF ZEKE JOHNSON, son of Joel Hills Johnson, born in 1869. (Recorded in the JOHNSON BULLEITN, September 1973)
Zeke Johnson son of Joel Hills Johnson (Picture from J Gregory Barron)
“I have been requested to relate an experience I had in 1908-9 in San Juan Co. I was just making a home in Blanding and the whole country there was covered with trees and sagebrush. I was working hard to clear the ground to plant a few acres of corn. We had five acres cleared and stared to plant corn. My little boy, Roy, about 7 or 8 years old was there to help me plant the corn. I’d plow around the place, then he would plant the furrow with corn, then I’d cover it and plow again. While I was plowing on that piece of ground, I discovered there were ancient houses there, that is the remains of them.
As I was plowing around I noticed that my plow had turned out the skeleton of a small child, the skull and backbone, but most of the bones of course were decayed and gone. Part of the skeleton was there, so I stopped immediately as my plow had passes it a little. I turned and looked back against the bar of the plow between the needles. As I was looking at that little skeleton that I had plowed out and wondering, all of a sudden, to my surprise, I saw the bones begin to wiggle and they began to change position and to take different color and within a minute there lay a beautiful little skeleton. It was a perfect little skeleton.
Then I saw the inner parts of the natural body coming in the entrails, etc. I saw the flesh coming on, and I saw the skin come on the body when the inner parts of the body were complete. A beautiful head of hair adorned the top of the head, and in about a half minute after the hair was on the head, it had a beautiful crystal decoration in the hair. It was combed beautifully and parted on one side. In about half a minute after the hair was on the head, the child raised up on her feet. She was lying a little on her left side with her back toward me. Because of this I wasn’t able to discern the sex of the child, but as she raised, a beautiful robe came down over her left shoulder and I saw it must be a girl.
She looked at me and I looked at her, and for a quarter of a minute we just looked at each other smiling. Then in my ambition to get hold of her, I said, ‘Oh you beautiful child.’ I reached out as if I would embrace her and she disappeared. That was all I saw, and I just stood there and wondered and thought for a few minutes… Now, I couldn’t tell that story to anyone, because it was so mysterious to me and such. Why should I have such a miraculous experience? I couldn’t feature a human being in such a condition as to accidentally plow that little body out and see it come alive. A body of a child about 5 to 7 years old, I’d say. I just couldn’t tell that story to anyone until finally, one day I met a dear friend of mine, Stake Patriarch, Wayne II. Redd of Blanding. He stopped me on the street, and said, ‘Zeke, you have had an experience on this mesa you won’t tell, and I want you to tell me.’ Well, I told it to him. Then he had me tell it to other friends and since then I’ve told it in 4 temples in the United States, and many meeting houses, many socials, Fast meetings, and at Conference time.
I wondered and worried about it for years as to why I was allowed to see it, a common man like me – uneducated as I was. Why was I, just a common man, allowed to see such a marvelous manifestation of God’s powers? One day as I was walking along with my hoe on my shoulder, going to hoe some corn, something said, ‘Stop under the shade of the tree for a few minutes and rest.’ This just came to me and I thought I would, so I stopped there and this was given to me:
Jaredites Land. Brooke Malia Mann
It was an answer to my prayers. I prayed incessantly for an answer as to why I was privileged to see that resurrection. Then I was told why. When the child was buried there, it was either in time of war with the different tribes, or it was wintertime when the ground was frozen, and they had no tools to dig deep graves. If it were during time of war they couldn’t possibly take time to dig a deep grave. They just planted the little body as they could under the circumstances. Then it was done, the sorrowing Mother knew that it was such a little shallow grave that in her sorrow she cried out to the little group present, ‘That little shallow grave, the first beast that comes along will smell her body, and will dig her up and scatter her to the four winds. Her bones will be scattered all over these flats.’
There just happened to be a man present holding the Priesthood. (A Nephite or a Jaredite, I don’t know which, because they both had been in this country.) This man said, ‘Sister, calm your sorrows. Whenever that little body is disturbed or uncovered, the Lord will call her up and she will live.’ Since that time I have taken great comfort, great cheer, consolation, and satisfaction with praise in my heart and soul, until I haven’t the words to express it, that it was I that uncovered that little body.
Thank you for listening to me. I just can’t tell this without crying.” Zeke Johnson, son of Joel Hills Johnson
Why Geography Matters by Rian Nelson
“If we in the church cannot even decide among ourselves where the Book of Mormon happened, how confusing is that to our youth and adults? Many anti-Mormons love the idea that we don’t even know where our sacred scriptures happened. There are over 100 theories of where the Book of Mormon happened, including, Baja, Chile, Malaysia, Honduras, Peru, etc. My feelings on all geographical theories about the Book of Mormon must include the following -The Hill Cumorah in NY is the hill where Joseph Smith received the plates from Moroni, and it is also the place of the last battles of the Nephites (Cumorah) and of the Jaredites (Ramah). I also believe the letter of Joseph Smith to his wife Emma in 1834 Illinois where he said “The whole of our journey, in the midst of so large a company of social honest men and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting [p. 57] occasionaly the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity” Joseph Smith Papers Letter to Emma Smith, 4 June 1834 Page 56-7 (spelling not corrected), is a true statement. Any other specific locations of the Book of Mormon cities and places are not fully known.
Large Map
Any other geography that doesn’t include these preceding important details isn’t a viable interpretation in my opinion. No scholar, computer or archaeology tells me this, I just feel it is true by personal revelation.
I also believe the Promised Land spoken of in the Book of Mormon is indeed the United States of America and its Constitution was written under the Savior Jesus Christ’s direction. D&C 101:80. Also knowing that Adam lived in Missouri and the New Jerusalem will be in Missouri, tells me the importance of “this Land” of the United States as the cradle of civilization and is critical as the headquarters of the Church, the land where the Gospel goes forth from, the place where the “Marvelous Work and Wonder” takes place, and the “Land of Joseph” of Egypt spoken of by prophets, is indeed the United States of America. I also believe there is a great possibility that D&C 125:3 is the Lord designating the area west of Nauvoo, Illinois as the ancient place of Zarahemla. I also feel the Prophet Joseph Smith had a vision about the warrior Zelph who was killed during one of the many last and great battles between the Nephites and Lamanites, near Valley City, Illinois. This information makes me conclude that indeed the Book of Mormon events happened in the heartland of the United States of America.
I believe there are great Lamanites all over North, South and Central America today and in other countries, but they are not necessarily the ones spoken of in the Book of Mormon time frame. The Book of Mormon only contains a fraction of the history of the Promised Land Lehites. But I believe that small fraction of Book of Mormon history speaks about Lehi, and Nephi, and Alma, and Mormon as they lived and fought in these United States.
I spent over 40 years looking and studying the Mesoamerican theory and other many theories, and found them very lacking. Like I mentioned, I will have an open mind if and until the church acknowledges the specific location. I will follow the 15 chosen Prophets and Seers.
I know the Brethren of the Church take a neutral position on the geography of the Book of Mormon. For you and me to take a neutral stand is not required. The Lord told us to read and study, and in the promise to Moroni, He said we may know the truth of ALL things, and I feel that would include knowing the location of the Book of Mormon events. I believe knowledge of the Spirit and of the head, are both important in learning truth. As Elder Holland in 2017 said, “truth borne by the Holy Spirit comes with, in effect, two manifestations, two witnesses if you will—the force of fact as well as the force of feeling.”
Previously posted by Rian Nelson on Facebook Sept 22, 2019
The contents of the stone box in Cumorah consisted of only the following:
1. The Gold Plates which a portion were sealed
2. The large Breastplate
3. The two stones in silver bows fastened to the breastplate
4. Two stones crossways. [Read Below]
“Having removed the earth, I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate, as stated by the messenger. The box in which they lay was formed by laying stones together in some kind of cement. In the bottom of the box were laid two stones crossways of the box, and on these stones lay the plates and the other things with them.” JSH 1:52
The Liahona and the Sword of Laban were in the cave of Cumorah in a separate place from the stone box.[Read Below]
“These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)
Only 3 people see the Plates, the Breastplate, and the Spectacles
1. Joseph Smith
2. Oliver Cowdery
3. Lucy Mack Smith
Lucy sees the spectacles and the breastplate under a thin linen. Art by Anne Marie Oborn.
Lucy Mack Smith sees “The Key”
“I trembled so much with fear lest all might be lost again by some small failure in keeping the commandments, that I was under the necessity of leaving the room to conceal my feelings. Joseph saw this and followed me. “Mother,” said he. “Do not be uneasy. All is right. See here,” said he, “I have got the key.”
I knew not what he meant, but took the article in my hands and, examining it with no covering but a silk handkerchief, found that it consisted of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows connected with each other in much the same way that old-fashioned spectacles are made. He took them again and left me, but did not tell me anything of the record….
That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed nothing more nor less than a Urim and Thummim by which the angel manifested those things to him that were shown him in vision; by which also he could at any time ascertain the approach of danger, either to himself or the record, and for this cause he kept these things constantly about his person.” (History of Joseph Smith, Revised and Enhanced, p. 139, 145)
Lucy Mack Smith sees the Breastplate
“After bringing home the plates, Joseph now commenced work with his father on the farm in order to be as near as possible the treasure that was committed to his care.
Buried in the Stone box, the Interpreters, Spectacles & Breastplate, Not Brown Seer Stone and a Hat.
Soon after this, he came in from work one afternoon, and after remaining a short time, he put on his greatcoat and left the house. I was engaged at the time in an upper room in preparing some oilcloths for painting. When he returned, he requested me to come downstairs. I told him that I could not leave my work just then, yet upon his urgent request, I finally concluded to go down and see what he wanted, upon which he handed me the breastplate spoken of in his history.
It was wrapped in a thin muslin handkerchief, so thin that I could see the glistening metal and ascertain its proportions without any difficulty.
It was concave on one side and convex on the other and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders, and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips. They were just the width of two of my fingers (for I measured them), and they had holes in the end of them to be convenient in fastening.
The whole plate was worth at least five hundred dollars. After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummim.” (History of Joseph Smith, Revised and Enhanced)
Lucy sees the Gold Plates and other Items
I have myself seen and handled the golden plates; they are about eight inches long, and six wide; some of them are sealed together and are not to be opened, and some of them are loose. They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate, and are covered with letters beautifully engraved. I have seen and felt also the Urim and Thummim. They resemble two large bright diamonds set in a bow like a pair of spectacles. My son puts these over his eyes when he reads unknown languages, and they enable him to interpret them in English. I have likewise carried in my hands the sacred breastplate. It is composed of pure gold and is made to fit the breast very exactly.” (Lucy Mack Smith in Henry Caswall, The City of the Mormons; or, Three Days at Nauvoo, in 1842, 2nd ed. revised and enlarged, (London: J. G. F. & J. Rivington, 1843), 26)
We are Entitled to a Seer Stone
Here are two quotes I think you will enjoy:
“Joseph Smith, Jr. said, every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness.” – Prophet Brigham Young, “History of Brigham Young,” Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star, v. 26, February 20, 1864
“The power of seership is one of the greatest gifts ever given to man; and the time is not far distant when every man who bears the Priesthood will be a seer. But it can only be when men have proved themselves able to withstand all of the false deceptions of the devil. Today the powers of crystal ball gazers, astrologers, ouija boards, etc., are abounding because men have forsaken or rejected the true seers of God. Thousands of people seek unto ‘wizards who peep and mutter’ etc., but they will not seek unto the living God. I can say to all the inhabitants of the earth that before what is called spiritualism was ever known in America, I told the people that if they would not believe the revelations that God had given, He would suffer the devil to give revelations that they–priests and people would follow after. . . I told the people that as true as God lived, if they would not have the truth they would have error sent to them, and they would believe it.” (Brigham Young, Des. News, June 18, 1871, p. 308) (See Revelation 2:17 and D&C 130:11)
“These Stones Fastened to a Breastplate JSH 1:35 by Anne Marie Oborn
There is not one scripture that says Joseph used a stone in a hat to translate. There are many scriptures that say he used the two stones fastened to a breastplate. [See Here: JSH 1:35,52,62,75*; Mosiah 28:13, 20; Ether 3:22-23; 4:5; Alma 37:21, 24-25]
May we seek for the true priesthood and further the truth as we understand, about the Prophet Joseph Smith. I Love Joseph and the Savior and I know they are leading us in the way of God. Search your own testimony and please share with me how you feel about these things. May the Lord bless you.
My Summary of the actual Translation process is submitted below. The details are in the 30 page PDF at the end.
1- The Plates, Breastplate and Interpreters not allowed to be seen by others, unless the Lord authorizes. DC 5:3 (Those known to see and feel all 3 articles are Joseph, Oliver, and Lucy Mack, but Lucy only saw them through the linen they were wrapped in.
2- Most reports say Joseph sat on one end of a table and the scribe on the other facing one another.
3- It is never mentioned in scripture that anything other than “The Interpreters” were used for translation.(The term Urim and Thummim is never used in the text of the Book of Mormon)
4- Joseph could not translate unless he was in tune with the Lord and had all the proper equipment about him.
5- There was not a curtain between Jospeh and the scribes according to Emma and Anne Cowdery. (Possibly a curtain between Martin Harris and Joseph for the 116 pages as Martin was aware if he ever saw the 3 items he would be destroyed)
6- Joseph likely hid the breastplate under his shirt as Lucy was quoted twice saying “He (Joseph) had these things (Spectacles and breastplate) constantly upon his person.”
7- Lucy also said of the breastplate, “It is composed of pure gold and is made to fit the breast very exactly.” Lucy Mack Smith (in Henry Caswall, The City of the Mormons 8- There was a single rod connecting the spectacles to the breastplate. “These stones, he continued, “were attached to the breastplate by a rod which was fastened at the outer shoulder edge of the breastplate and to the edge of the silver bow.” William Smith
9- The Translation was accomplished only “By the Gift and Power of God” which none of us can fully understand.
10- The three witnesses saw the plates as Moroni turned the pages in front of them. (Spiritual Witnesss)
11- The eight witnesses saw Joseph hand the plates to each of them and each of the 8 handled and hefted the plates. (Physical Witness)
Detailed PDF Below of the Proper Method of Translation
[pdf-embedder url=”https://bookofmormonevidence.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/The-Key-Short-Version.pdf” title=”The Key Short Version”]
The purpose of this blog is to share with you significant archaeological evidence for the ancient Hopewell Culture nearby the Hill Cumorah. You can read this information from EG Squires here:
There is evidence of “Bone Pits”, fortifications, pottery, copper, weapons, palisades, forts, mass burials, mounds, tools and other artifacts all around this area. I believe the Hopewell culture matches up with the Nephite culture extraordinarily well. The Hopewell originated about 550 BC at the panhandle of Florida from Crystal River to Tallahassee, Florida. History documents this. The Hopewell then traveled north into Georgia and Tennessee. There is evidence of a huge society of the Hopewell from Missouri to Illinois to Indiana and then to Ohio which was the dominant historical area of this people. History shows the end of the Hopewell civilization around the year 400 AD. Historians say the Hopewell just disappeared and historians have no idea what happened. I feel I have a good idea. The final battle at Hill Cumorah was 385 AD. This is some great evidence of a possible link to the Hopewell and the Nephites.
E.G. Squire 1849
“I believe we may confidently pronounce that all the hypotheses which attribute those works to Europeans are incorrect and fanciful—first, on account of the present number of the works; secondly, on account of their antiquity; having from every appearance, been erected a long time before the discovery of America; and finally, their form and manner are totally variant from European fortifications, either in ancient or modern times.
It is equally clear that they were not the work of the Indians… It is apparent that Turner did not believe the American Indians were responsible, or connected with the ancient civilization that was responsible for the mounds. Would this culture of thinking deny the American Indians their rightful heritage?
Page 514 Annotated Book of Mormon by David Hocking and Rod Meldrum
What knowledge is left that might enable society to unlock the enigma of the Mound-Builders’ existence? Many of the giant earthworks, temple mounds, and effigy constructions show signs of a central government and of a spiritual and religious turning, [Maybe 34 to 200 AD Book of Mormon times?]built in times of peace and prosperity where ceremonies and religious rituals were shared.” (For example the Newark Earthworks in Newark, Ohio are dated between 100 AD and 100 BC. These earthworks show no defensive fortifications. If fact the Newark earthwork seems to be describing the plan of Salvation during a peaceful time of the Hopewell).
Newark Earthworks at Newark Ohio showing the Plan of Salvation. See Annotated Book of Mormon by David Hocking and Rod Meldrum page 250
Squires continues, “In their later constructions are found evidences of a time when the populations were motivated by fear [Maybe 250 to, 350 AD Book of Mormon times?] building hill-top fortifications and defenses. They incorporate ingenious military design and constructions and give signs of a time of ongoing conflicts, where the motivation behind these types of constructions was that of survival… In another section of EG Squires book he says, “Another which I [Squier] visited in the town of Clarence, Erie County, contained not less than four hundred skeletons. A deposit of bones comprising a large number of skeletons was found, not long since, in making some excavations in the town of Black Rock, situated on Niagara River, in Erie county…In Canada similar deposits are frequent. Accounts of their discovery and character appeared in various English publications, among which may be named the “British Colonial Newspaper” of September 1847, and the “Edinburgh New Philosophical Journal,” for July 1848. From a communication in the latter by Edward W. Bawtree, M.D., the subjoined interesting facts are derived. “A quantity of human bones was found in one spot in 1846 near Barrie, and also a pit containing human bones near St. Vincent’s. Great numbers were found in the latter, with several copper and brass kettles, and various trinkets and ornaments in common use among the Indians.” E. G. Squier: Antiquities of the State of New York: (1851) Editor notes in blue italics
See a great new video below from Steven Smoot, exploring the agenda being the silencing of America’s Ancient History, and the once great civilizations that inhabited North America.
New York Antiquity
Squire continues, “The purposes of the mounds of New York, so far as can be determined, seem uniformly to have been those of sepulture. They generally occur upon commanding or remarkable positions. Most of them have been excavated, under the impulse of an idle curiosity, or have had their contents scattered by “money-diggers,” a ghostly race, of which, singularly enough, even at this day, representatives may be found in almost every village. I was fortunate enough to discover one upon Tonawanda Island, in Niagara River, which had escaped their midnight attentions. It was originally about fifteen feet in height. At the base appeared to have been a circle of stones, perhaps ten feet in diameter, within which were several small heaps of bones, each comprising three or four skeletons. The bones are of individuals of all ages, and had evidently been deposited after the removal of the flesh. Traces of fire were to be discovered upon the stones. Some chippings of flint and broken arrow-points, as also some fragments of deers’ horns, which appeared to have been worked into form, were found amongst the bones. The skulls had been crushed by the superincumbent earth. The mounds which formerly existed in Erie, Genesee, Monroe, Livingston, St. Lawrence, Oswego, Chenango, and Delaware counties, all appear to have contained human bones, in greater or less quantities, deposited promiscuously, and embracing the skeletons of individuals of all ages and both sexes. They probably all owe their origin to a practice common to many of the North American tribes, of collecting together at fixed intervals the bones of their dead, and finally depositing them with many and solemn ceremonies. They were sometimes heaped together so as to constitute mounds; at others placed in pits or trenches dug in the earth; and it is probable they were in some instances buried in separate graves, but in long ranges, or deposited in caverns, either promiscuously or with regularity. The period when this second burial took place occurred at different intervals amongst the different tribes, but was universally denominated the “Festival of the Dead.” Bartram, speaking of the burial customs of the Floridian Indians, says: “After the bone-house is full, a general solemn funeral takes place. The nearest kindred and friends of the deceased, on a day appointed, repair to the bone-house, take up the respective coffins, and, following one another in the order of seniority, the nearest relations and connections attending their respective corpses, and the multitude succeeding them, singing and lamenting alternately, slowly proceed to the place of general interment, when they place the coffins in order forming a pyramid. Lastly, they cover all over with earth, which raises a conical hill or mount. They then return to town in order of solemn procession, concluding the day with a festival which is called the ‘Feast of the Dead?’ The author here quoted adds in a note, that it was the opinion of some ingenious men with whom he had conversed, “that all those artificial pyramidal hills, usually called ‘Indian Mounts,’ were raised on such occasions, and are generally sepulchres;” from which opinion he takes occasion to dissent. There is no doubt a wide difference between the mounds thus formed and the great bulk of those connected with the vast ancient enclosures of the Western States.The large cemeteries which have been discovered in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and Ohio, seem to have resulted from a similar practice. In these the skeletons were generally packed in rude coffins composed of flat stones, placed in ranges of great extent. The circumstance that many of these coffins were not more than two or three feet in length, gave rise to the notion of the former existence here of a pigmy race. The discovery of iron and some articles of European origin in one of these cemeteries in the vicinity of Augusta, Kentucky, shows that this mode of burial existed at a late period among the Indians in that direction. The “bone-pits” which occur in some parts of Western New York, Canada, Michigan, etc., have unquestionably a corresponding origin. Several of these have been described in a previous chapter. They are of various sizes, but usually contain a large number of skeletons. In a few instances the bones appear to have been arranged with some degree of regularity. One of these pits discovered some years ago, in the town of Cambria, Niagara county, was estimated to contain the bones of several thousand individuals. Another which I visited in the town of Clarence, Erie county, contained not less than four hundred skeletons. A deposit of bones comprising a large number of skeletons was found not long since, in making some excavations in the town of Black Rock, situated on Niagara River, in Erie county. They were arranged in a circle, with their heads radiating from a large copper kettle, which had been placed in the centre, and filled with bones. Various implements both of modern and remote date had been placed beside the skeletons.” ABORIGINAL MONUMENTS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK COMPRISING THE RESULTS OF ORIGINAL SURVEYS AND EXPLORATIONS; WITH AN ILLUSTRATIVE APPENDIX, BY E. G. SQUIER, A.M.
Now in March of 2024 the Annotated Edition of the Book of Mormon by David Hocking and Rod Meldrum has become very popular with over 40,000 now printed. We are still attacked with an unusually heated fervor by some of our fellow members of the Church who believe the Mesoamerican theory. I would like to respond briefly.
There is really only one big difference between the Heartland theory and the Mesoamerican theory. It has to do with the location of Cumorah. NY or Mexico? The Mesoamericans believe the plates Joseph Smith found in a hill was not necessarily “the Hill Cumorah.” They also believe the final battles of the Nephites occurred somewhere in Mexico.
Editorial Position of the Annotated Book of Mormon
From: David Hocking, Rod Meldrum, Jonathan Neville, Boyd Tuttle, Wayne May, and Rian Nelson
Whatever you feel is fine with us, but but we strongly believe the Book of Mormon plates were buried in the Hill Cumorah in upstate New York and the last battles of the Nephites happened near that same hill. Hill Ramah where the Jaredites were destroyed is also the exact same hill. (Ether 15:11) See more at the blog here:
Here is what the Editors of the Annotated Book of Mormon shared with the Mesoamericans, who attacked our book.
We still believe the teachings of the prophets about the New York Cumorah; and
We trust people to make their own informed decisions.
The prophets have been clear about two points:
(i) the Hill Cumorah of Mormon 6:6 is in New York and (ii) we don’t know for sure the locations of other Book of Mormon events.
Email to Mesoamerican believers: “We have adopted the above in red as our editorial position, as anyone who reads the book can see. If you were confident in your position, you would encourage all to read the Annotated Edition and see the flaws for themselves, but instead you warn your readers to “stay away” and then stand before them as their “truth filters” and “Interpreters” thus preventing them from ever entering in.” Annotated BofM Editors
Why do many insist that the final battle of the Nephites and Lamanites didn’t happen at the one and only Hill Cumorah? Many yell the words, “It’s a clean hill”, meaning there are no arrowheads found there, or they say, “where are all the bones?” Bones from 1,400 years ago that weren’t even buried? No breastplates or head plates? Ever hear of spoils of the war. Too small of a hill? The final battles didn’t happen just on a little hill, but in the Land of Cumorah. See Mormon 6:2. Oliver Cowdery said in Letter VII it was the hill of the final battles. Good enough for me. It makes sense. I believe the final battles happened in the Land of Cumorah, near the hill.
The purpose of the information below is to share with you significant archaeological evidence for the ancient Hopewell and Adena Culture in the Hill Cumorah Land. There is evidence of fortifications, pottery, copper, weapons, palisades, forts, mass burials, mounds, tools and other artifacts all around this land in Upstate NY. I believe the Hopewell culture matches up with the Nephite culture extraordinarily well. The Hopewell originated in 600 BC at the panhandle of Florida from Crystal River to Pensacola, Florida. History documents this. The Hopewell then traveled north into Georgia and Tennessee. There is evidence of a huge society of the Hopewell from Missouri to Illinois to Indiana and then to Ohio which was the dominant historical area of this people. History shows the end of the Hopewell civilization around the year 400 AD near Hill Cumorah in New York. Historians say the Hopewell just disappeared and historians have no idea what happened. I feel I have a good idea. The final battle at Cumorah was 385 AD. This is some of the best evidence of a possible link to the Hopewell and the Nephites.
Cumorah Question
A series of objections to Mormonism were emailed by a professor friend of music superstar Jay Osmond (drummer of the world famous Osmond Brothers and Osmond family musical dynasty) requesting Jays response and answers to his challenges. The questions, which were to be used in conjunction with a course being taught by professor D. Kline in a prominent eastern university, were forwarded to researcher and author Rod L. Meldrum, an advocate for the Book of Mormon who has also conducted scientific research in several related fields of science and DNA, for a response. [All Questions and Answers here]: Below is just one of those questions and its answer.
Question from Dr. D. Kline:There should be over 230,000 bodies around the Hill Comorrah [Cumorah]. The place Joseph Smith saw his vision, and the one geographical site confirmed by the Mormon Church. There should be mass burial sites, steel swords, bones, and much more. Such an epic battle would have left behind vast amounts of archaeological evidence, yet all that has been found is a few stone weapons. And as if the lack of archaeological confirmation is not enough of a problem, the LDS Church refuses to allow outside excavation. Contrast this with Biblical archaeology, where any known Biblical sites have been excavated and verified.
Answer by Rod Meldrum: Really? There were 60,000,000 bison exterminated on the plains, most of which were left where they lay when they died. Where is the evidence for this massive slaughter, today? And these were not small 150 pound human’s but 1800 pound animals with much heavier bones and bodies. Yet there is nothing left of them today to show they were indeed here. Any dead body quickly deteriorates to nearly nothing in short order in these wet/humid climates. The only way anything from a human body would be preserved is through burial and the Nephites specifically record that the Lamanites left the bodies of the fallen Nephites “and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.” This is clearly indicative of non-burial and therefore no one should expect such remains.
Some have incorrectly assumed that the final battles of the Book of Mormon occurred in one single relatively small location or even on the Hill Cumorah itself, but the book, as well as the archaeological evidence, suggests otherwise. In 1851, the Smithsonian Institution published the book Antiquities of the State of New York which provides overwhelming evidence of massive burials all over the western portion of the state of New York. Here are a few quotes from this authoritative and informative book.
Quotes Below
PAGE 79 “A MILE TO THE EASTWARD…IS ANOTHER OF THE ‘BONE PITS,’ ALREADY SEVERAL TIMES REFERRED TO, WHICH IS ESTIMATED, BY THOSE WHO EXCAVATED IT ORIGINALLY, TO HAVE CONTAINED FOUR HUNDRED SKELETONS HEAPED PROMISCUOUSLY TOGETHER. THEY WERE INDIVIDUALS OF EVERY AGE AND SEX.”
PAGE 99 “THE “BONE PITS” WHICH OCCUR IN SOME PARTS OF WESTERN NEW YORK, CANADA, MICHIGAN, ETC., HAVE AN UNQUESTIONABLY CORRESPONDING ORIGIN. THEY ARE OF VARIOUS SIZES, BUT USUALLY CONTAIN A LARGE NUMBER OF SKELETONS. ONE OF THE PITS DISCOVERED SOME YEARS AGO, IN THE TOWN OF CAMBRIA, NIAGARA COUNTY, WAS ESTIMATED TO CONTAIN THE BONES OF SEVERAL THOUSAND INDIVIDUALS…”
PAGE 100 “…THE AREA WAS A DEPOSITORY OF THE DEAD. IT WAS A PIT EXCAVATED FOUR OR FIVE FEET DEEP AND FILLED WITH HUMAN BONES… HUNDREDS SEEM TO HAVE BEEN THROWN IN PROMISCUOUSLY, OF BOTH SEXES AND ALL AGES. NUMEROUS BITS OF ARROW-POINTS WERE FOUND AMONG THE BONES AND IN THE VICINITY…”
PAGE 103 “AMONG THEM WERE A FEW FETAL BONES. MANY OF THE SKULLS BORE MARKS OF VIOLENCE, LEADING TO THE BELIEF THAT THEY WERE BROKEN BEFORE BURIAL…”
PAGE 144 “IN EXCAVATING THE CANAL [ERIE CANAL] THROUGH THE BANK… ANOTHER BURIAL PLACE WAS DISCLOSED, EVIDENTLY MORE ANCIENT, FOR THE BONES CRUMBLED TO PIECES ALMOST IMMEDIATELY UPON EXPOSURE TO THE AIR… THE NUMBER OF SKELETONS IS REPRESENTED TO HAVE BEEN COUNTLESS…”
Below are some articles from local newspapers near Palmyra from 1818 to 1822.
Vol. XIV. Geneva, N. Y., August 7, 1822. No. 10.
Osco Indian Mound Auburn, NY
A Mound, of extraordinary dimensions, has been recently discovered & opened in the southeast part of this county. It is about fifty feet in length and eighteen in breadth at one extremity, and gradually terminating to a complete point at the other. Within this space large quantities of human bones have been dug up, apparently of all ages. Some of the skull bones are very large, and one thigh bone in particular is said to be much too large for the present race of men. The bodies appear to have been thrown in without any order or regularity, as the bones are found cross-wise and in every form. No relics of utensils or implements have been found with them, and whether they were the victims of a battle, or from what cause they were disposed of in this manner, we pretend not to say, but from the works in the vicinity of the mound resembling fortifications, we should judge that to have been the case. Large trees have grown directly over the mound, and the bones on being exposed to the air soon become calcareous. After giving this statement, we leave it to the curious, and those better skilled on this subject, to make such speculations as these facts render deductible.(A large number of human bones in the last stage of decay, were lately found in the town of Nunda — Allegany Co. — promiscuously covered over in a field; near which, on the top of a hill, were the remains of an old fort, inaccessible on every side but one, which appears to have been the work of a civilized people; but tradition even does not point to the time about which it was erected.)
Note: This article was reprinted in the Aug. 14, 1822 issue of the Palmyra Herald and Canal Advertiser.
Vol. XIV. Geneva, N. Y., September 18, 1822. No. 16.
Indian Mound At Fort Hill, NY
Circleville, O., Aug. 20. Our Antiquities. — A few days since while some mechanics were digging near the north west corner of the “square fort” in this place, they came to a strata of earth, differing in quality and color from that which composed the wall generally — on which reposed the skeleton of a human being which had probably been mouldering there for centuries. The skeleton was discovered about ten feet from the summit of the wall, and four from its base, or common level of the adjacent earth. The bones are said by those who first discovered them, to have extended nine or ten feet, from head to foot!They immediately crumbled on exposure to the air. The wall is composed of clay, which is readily converted into bricks — for which purpose it is rapidly disappearing before the devouring hand of man. The layer of earth on which the skeleton was found, was composed of dark fine sand, much resembling alluvial soil; it extended three or four rods in length, and is totally unfit for the purposes for which the remainder of the wall is using. — Olive Branch.
Vol. I. Palmyra, N. Y., Wednesday, January 21, 1818. No. 9.
From the North American Review. [ Nov. 1816 ].
LITERARY.
Indian Antiquities. — The following account, which we take from the Western Gazetteer, adds something to our former knowledge of those hitherto inexplicable wonders, that are found in such abundance in our western country. We have not room to examine any of the speculations, which have entered the heads of our philosophers and antiquarians on the subject; and if we had, we should hardly expect, where all is conjecture and uncertainty, to afford much amusement or profit to our readers. There is something, however, extremely curious in the inquiry itself; although we cannot hope, that any very important or certain results can be drawn from the few facts, which have as yet been given to the world. We can safely infer from them nothing more, than that this immense tract of country, which has every mark of having been for centuries past a desolate wilderness, has been thickly inhabited at some former period by a warlike people,who had made much greater advances in the arts of civilized life, than any of the aboriginal inhabitants of North America, who have been. known since its discovery by Europeans. The mounds described below are situated in the town ot Harrison, Indiana Territory. ‘We examined from 15 to 20. In some, whose heights was from ten to fifteen feet, we could not find more than four or five skeletons. In one, not the least appearance of a human bone was to be found. Others were so full of bones, as to warrant the belief, that they originally contained at least one hundred dead bodies; children of different ages, and the full grown, appeared to have been piled together promiscuously. We found several scull, leg and thigh hones, which plainly indicated that their possessors were men of gigantic stature. The scull of one skeleton was one fourth of an inch thick; and the teeth remarkably even, sound and handsome, all firmly planted. The fore teeth were very deep, and not so wide as those of the generality of white people. Indeed, there seemed a great degree of regularity in the form of the teeth, in all the mounds. In the progress of our researches, we obtained ample testimony, that these masses of the earth were formed by a savage people. Yet, doubtless possessing a greater degree of civilization than the present race of Indians. We discovered a piece of glass weighing five ounces, resembling the bottom of a tumbler, but concave; several stone axes, with grooves near their heads to receive a withe, which unquestionably served as a helve; arrows formed from flint, almost exactly similar to those in use among the present Indians; several pieces of earthen ware; some appeared to be parts of vessels holding six or eight gallons; others were obviously fragments of jugs, jars, and cups: some were plain, while others were curiously ornamented with figures of birds and beasts, drawn while the clay or material of which they were made was soft, and before the process of glazing was performed. The small vessels were made of pounded or pulverized muscle shells, mixed with an earthen or flinty substance, and the large ones of clay and sand. There was no appearance of iron; one of the sculls was found pierced by an arrow, which was still sticking in it, driven about half way through before its force was spent. It was about six inches long. The subjects of this mound were doubtless killed in battle, and hastily buried. In digging to the bottom of them we invariably came to a stratum of ashes, from six inches to two feet thick, which rests on the original earth. These ashes contain coals, fragments of brands, and pieces of calcined bones. From the quantity of ashes and bones, and the appearance of the earth underneath, it is evident that large fires must have been kept burning for several days previous to commencing the mound.
Almost every building lot in Harrison village contains a small mound; and some as many as three. On the neighboring hills, northeast of the town, is a number of the remains of stone houses. They were covered with soil, brush, and full grown trees. We cleared away the earth, roots and rubbish from one of them, and found it to have been anciently occupied as a dwelling. It was about twelve feet square; the walls had fallen nearly to the foundation. They appeared to have been built of rough stone, like our stone walls. Not the least trace of any iron tools have been employed to smooth the face of them, could be perceived. At one end of the building, we came to a regular hearth, containing ashes and coals; before which we found the bones of eight persons of different ages, from a small child to the heads of the family. The positions of their skeletons clearly indicated, that their deaths were sudden and simultaneous. They were probably asleep, with their feet towards the fire, when destroyed by an enemy, an earthquake, or pestilence.”
Vol. I. Palmyra, N. Y., Wednesday, January 28, 1818. No. 10.
Extract from the Western Gazeteer.
The author of this interesting and valuable work, in speaking of the antiquities of the state of Indiana that now exist near Vincennes, County of Knox, says that “On the hills, two miles east of the town, are three large mounds; and others are frequently met with on the prairies, and upland, from White-river to the head of the Wabash. They are in every respect similar to those in Franklin county, already described.
The French have a tradition, that an exterminating battle was fought in the beginning of the last century, on the ground where Fort Harrison mpw stands, between the Indians living on the Mississippi, and those of the Wabash. The bone of contention was the lands lying between those rivers, which both parties claimed. There were about 1000 warriors on each side. The condition of the fight was, that the victors should possess the lands in dispute. The grandeur of the prize was peculiarly calculated to inflame the ardor of savage minds. The contest commenced about sunrise. Both parties fought desperately. The Wabash warriors came off conquerors, having seven men left alive at sunset, and their adversaries but five. The mounds are still to be seen where it is said the slain were buried.”
By D. C. Miller. Batavia, N. Y., October 18, 1822. Vol. 11, No. 553.
AMERICAN ANTIQUITIES.
To the editors of the Louisiana Republican.
Gentlemen: — In the course of my observation & travels through several parts of the United States, I have kept minutes of the most remarkable events which have occurred under my own observation, extracts from which I design, occasionally, to submit to you, and if you think them worthy of insertion in your useful paper, you are at liberty to use them accordingly.
All accounts extant, relative to the size of the ancient settlers of our country, agree that this race of beings must have been larger than the present; but none that I have seen give any evidence of this fact. From my own observation, I have evidence at least of one person of gigantic stature.
In the year 1810, I opened, with several other persons who accompanied me for the purpose, one of the flat mounds common in the western country. It was built of regular layers of flat stones, and covered lightly with earth. This was 4 miles west of the town of Worthington, in Ohio, and within a few rods of the banks of the river Scioto. — In this mound we found the skeletons of a number of bodies, some of a very large size, they were deposited directly due east and west, the heads to the west; precisely as is the practice in Christian burials.
After several hours fatigue in opening & examining this mound, we retired to a house of a Mr. Miller, about 200 yards from the spot, who informed us that he had taken a skeleton from the mound adjoining the one we had examined, which was supposed to be, when living, a man of at least 7 feet 4 inches. He stated that such was the opinion of all who had seen the bones in his possession — that the bone of the leg, which had lost a little at each end, was then longer than the bone of the tallest man in the settlement, measuring from the heel to the cap of the knee.
Mr. Miller stated that he had also in his possession, the jaw bone of this skeleton, which he said, would cover loosely the face of any of his neighbors; and that, when he found the skeleton, he picked from one of the joints of the neck bone, (which was also much larger than any he had seen before,) a stone arrow point; from which circumstances, it was thought his death had been occasioned. I made many inquiries of Mr. Miller, who seemed to be a very intelligent man. He informed me that he had been living at his residence on the Scioto, for many years; — that when he first settled there, he was told by all the old Indians that these mounds existed at a period beyond the recollection of the oldest of them, and that the tribe of Indians before them could give no account of the mounds, other than that they were burying places before they inhabited the country.
From these circumstances, together with some others, which have come under my observation, I have been of opinion, that the bones frequently found in these mounds, must have been the skeletons of a race of beings inhabiting the country, of whom the Indians had no knowledge. The most remarkable circumstance stated by Mr. Miller was, that when ploughing his field, he traced plainly the remains of an ancient building in the form of a house, as there was a manifest difference in the appearance of the earth; and pointing at the same time to the hearth stone in his fire-place, he observed “the hearth-stone which you see there, I took myself from the place where I suppose the fire-place was in the ancient building of which I speak.” The Indians, he added, gave him the same account of the appearance of this old building as they had of the mounds; that it existed before their time. During the war, and while on my way to Detroit, I intended calling on Mr. Miller, for more particular information, but upon my arrival at Worthington, I learned that he was dead.
Every information tending to prove the existence of a vast ancient population of any part of our country, ought to be preserved — but few persons can or will afford to spend time and money to the attainment of such an object. I have occasionally noted what had passed under my observation since the year 1807 in the western country; and, as I find leisure, will transmit them to you to be filed away through the medium of your paper, till better proof can be obtained of the existence of a vast ancient population of our country.
It would, in my opinion, be a very laudable act in the general government to encourage or authorize some competent person to collect the most important facts in relation to this subject. And the present state of profound peace and tranquility of our country is, perhaps as favorable as any other in the history of our national affairs for such an undertaking. A TRAVELLER.
Note 1: This article was also reprinted in the Oct. 30, 1822 issue of the Palmyra Herald and Canal Advertiser, along with an article on Mordecai M. Noah’s scheme for a gathering of Israel in America.
Note 2: Early settlers moving into the western country once frequently encountered burial mounds and graves containing the bones of such ancient giants, but evidence of these exceptionally tall and robust Indians is rarely uncovered today. The prevalence of these reports during the 1820s and 1830s lead some Americans to speculate that their land had once been inhabited by a civilized (perhaps white) race of “mighty men of yore.”Mormon writers have often pointed out the evidence of these large skeletons as supporting the story of the Jaredites or Nephites in the pre-Columbian Americas. LDS author Phyllis C. Olive, on pages 30-34 of her 2001 book, The Lost Tribes of the Book of Mormon, sets forth her evidence that the Book of Mormon people were not only the “Mound-Builders,” but that they were also a “large and mighty nation living in the near vicinity of the Hill Cumorah and throughout the entire mound building region — the giant, Mound Builders so long sought for; a people who bear remarkable similarities to those described in the Book of Mormon.” See also the same writer’s 1998 book, The Lost Lands of the Book of Mormon, where she expresses the same ideas. The thought does not seem to have occurred to these Mormon writers, that pre-1830 reports of American antiquities could have influenced the writing of the Book of Mormon itself.
This pile of bones (above) comes from 200+ small Hopewell forts around Cumorah, but mostly east of the Hill, which would be the direction that the Lamanites would come from the Ohio collapse. Squire did the survey work uncovering numerous bones in piles in the ditches around the forts and some mound piles of stack bones with swallow dirt cover. Aboriginal Monuments of Western New York (below)……Wayne May has it for sale on his site. wwwancientamerican.com first and second edition. Both are good. Bone piles are in the Holland Purchase book as well, any early book on western New York, mentions the antiquity of numerous bones around the small enclosures of western N.Y.
See more great Historical Research from the sources below:
| E.G. Squier | Aboriginal Monuments | Chapter IV Below|
MOUNDS, BONE-HEAPS, ETC.
VARIOUS references to mounds or tumuli, resembling those found in the Valley of the Mississippi, have been made in the preceding pages. These mounds are far from numerous, and hardly deserve a separate notice. It is nevertheless an interesting fact to know that isolated examples occur, in situations where it is clear no dependence exists between them and the grand system of earth-works of the Western States. It serves to sustain the conclusion that the savage Indian tribes occasionally constructed mounds; which are however rather to be considered as accidents than the results of a general practice. The purposes of the mounds of New York, so far as can be determined, seem uniformly to have been those of sepulture. They generally occur upon commanding or remarkable positions. Most of them have been excavated, under the impulse of an idle curiosity, or have had their contents scattered by “money-diggers,” a ghostly race, of which, singularly enough, even at this day, representatives may be found in almost every village. I was fortunate enough to discover one upon Tonawanda Island, in Niagara River, which had escaped their midnight attentions. It was originally about fifteen feet in height. At the base appeared to have been a circle of stones, perhaps ten feet in diameter, within which were several small heaps of bones, each comprising three or four skeletons. The bones are of individuals of all ages, and had evidently been deposited after the removal of the flesh. Traces of fire were to be discovered upon the stones. Some chippings of flint and broken arrow-points, as also some fragments of deers’ horns, which appeared to have been worked into form, were found amongst the bones. The skulls had been crushed by the superincumbent earth.
The mounds which formerly existed in Erie, Genesee, Monroe, Livingston, St. Lawrence, Oswego, Chenango, and Delaware counties, all appear to have contained human bones, in greater or less quantities, deposited promiscuously, and embracing the skeletons of individuals of all ages and both sexes. They probably all owe their origin to a practice common to many of the North American tribes, of collecting together at fixed intervals the bones of their dead, and finally depositing them with many and solemn ceremonies. They were sometimes heaped together so as to constitute mounds; at others placed in pits or trenches dug in the earth; and it is probable they were in some instances buried in separate graves, but in long ranges, or deposited in caverns, either promiscuously or with regularity.
The period when this second burial took place occurred at different intervals amongst the different tribes, but was universally denominated the “Festival of the Dead.” Bartram, speaking of the burial customs of the Floridian Indians, says: “After the bone-house is full, a general solemn funeral takes place. The nearest kindred and friends of the deceased, on a day appointed, repair to the bone-house, take up the respective coffins, and, following one another in the order of seniority, the nearest relations and connections attending their respective corpses, and the multitude succeeding them, singing and lamenting alternately, slowly proceed to the place of general interment, when they place the coffins in order forming a pyramid. Lastly, they cover all over with earth, which raises a conical hill or mount. They then return to town in order of solemn procession, concluding the day with a festival which is called the ‘Feast of the Dead?‘”13 The author here quoted adds in a note, that it was the opinion of some ingenious men with whom he had conversed, “that all those artificial pyramidal hills, usually called ‘Indian Mounts,’ were raised on such occasions, and are generally sepulchres;” from which opinion he takes occasion to dissent. There is no doubt a wide difference between the mounds thus formed and the great bulk of those connected with the vast ancient enclosures of the Western States.
The large cemeteries which have been discovered in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and Ohio, seem to have resulted from a similar practice. In these the skeletons were generally packed in rude coffins composed of flat stones, placed in ranges of great extent. The circumstance that many of these coffins were not more than two or three feet in length, gave rise to the notion of the former existence here of a pigmy race. The discovery of iron and some articles of European origin in one of these cemeteries in the vicinity of Augusta, Kentucky, shows that this mode of burial existed at a late period among the Indians in that direction.
The “bone-pits” which occur in some parts of Western New York, Canada, Michigan, etc., have unquestionably a corresponding origin. Several of these have been described in a previous chapter. They are of various sizes, but usually contain a large number of skeletons. In a few instances the bones appear to have been arranged with some degree of regularity.
“The Bones of Several Thousand Individuals”https://scienceviews.com/squier/aboriginalmonuments22.html#14
One of these pits discovered some years ago, in the town of Cambria, Niagara county, was estimated to contain the bones of several thousand individuals. Another which I visited in the town of Clarence, Erie county, contained not less than four hundred skeletons. A deposit of bones comprising a large number of skeletons was found not long since, in making some excavations in the town of Black Rock, situated on Niagara River, in Erie county. They were arranged in a circle, with their heads radiating from a large copper kettle, which had been placed in the centre, and filled with bones. Various implements both of modern and remote date had been placed beside the skeletons.
In Canada similar deposits are frequent. Accounts of their discovery and character have appeared in various English publications, among which may be named the “British Colonial Newspaper,” of September 24th, 1847, and the “Edinburgh New Philosophical Journal,” for July, 1848. From a communication in the latter, by Edward W. Bawtree, M. D., the subjoined interesting facts are derived.
A quantity of human bones was found in one spot, in 1846, near Barrie, and also a pit containing human bones near St. Vincent’s. Great numbers were found in the latter, with several copper and brass kettles, and various trinkets and ornaments in common use among the Indians. This discovery led to the examination of a similar pit, about seven miles from Penetanqueshene, in the township of Giny. “This pit was accidentally noticed by a Canadian while making sugar in the neighborhood. He was struck by its appearance and the peculiar sound produced at the bottom by stamping there; and, in turning up a few spadefuls of earth, was surprised to find a quantity of human bones. It was more accurately examined in September, 1847, and found to contain, besides a great number of human skeletons, of both sexes and all ages, twenty-six copper and brass kettles and boilers; three large conch-shells; pieces of beaver-skin in tolerable preservation; a fragment of a pipe; a large iron axe, evidently of French manufacture; some human hair (that of a woman); a copper bracelet; and a quantity of fiat auricular beads, perforated through the centre.
“The form of the pit is circular, with an elevated margin; it is about fifteen feet in diameter, and before it was opened was probably nine feet deep from the level of its margin to its centre and bottom; it was, in one word, funnel-shaped. It is situated on the top of a gentle rise, with a shallow ravine on the east side, through which, at certain seasons, runs a small stream. The soil is light, free from stones, and dry. A small iron-wood tree, about two inches in diameter, is growing in the centre of the pit.
Fig. 4. Copper
“The kettles in the pit were found ranged at the bottom, resting on pieces of bark, and filled with bones. They had evidently been covered with beaver-skins. The shells and the axe were found in the intervals between the kettles. The beads were in the kettles among the bones, generally in bunches of strings.
“The kettles, of which Fig. 4 is an example, resemble those in use at the present day, and appear to be formed of sheet copper, the rim being beaten out so as to cover an iron band which passes around the mouth of the vessel. The iron handle by which they were suspended hooks into eyes attached to the band above mentioned. The smallest holds about six gallons; the largest not far from sixteen gallons. The copper is generally very well preserved; the iron, however, is much corroded. Two of the kettles were of brass.
“The largest of the conch-shells, Fig. 5, weighs three pounds and a quarter, and measures fourteen inches in its longest diameter. Its outer surface has lost its polish, and is quite honey-combed by age and decomposition; the inside still retains its smooth lamellated surface. It has lost its color, and appears like chalk. A piece had been cut from its base, probably for making the beads that were found in it.14 From the base of the columella of the smallest shell a piece had been cut, evidently for the purpose of manufacturing beads. The extreme point of the base of each shell had a perforation through it.
“The pipe is imperfect. It is made of the earthenware of which so many specimens are found in the neighborhood, in the form of vessels and pipes. The spots where the manufacture of these articles was carried on are still to be seen in some places.
“The beads are formed of a white chalky substance, varying in degree of density and hardness; they are accurately circular, with a circular perforation in the centre; of different sizes, from a quarter to half an inch, or rather more, in diameter; but nearly all of the same thickness, not quite the eighth of an inch. They may be compared to a peppermint lozenge with a hole through the centre. They were found in bunches or strings, and a good many were still closely strung on a fibrous woody substance. The bracelet is a simple band of copper, an inch and a half broad, closely fitting the wrist. The hair is long, evidently that of a woman, and quite fresh in appearance.
“Another pit, about two miles from that just noticed, was also examined in September. It is considerably smaller, being not more than nine feet in diameter, by about the same original depth. It is situated on rising ground, in a light sandy soil, and there is nothing remarkable in its position. A beech-tree, six inches thick, grew from its centre. It contained about as many skeletons as the other pit, but had no kettles in it. The bones were of individuals of both sexes and of all ages. Among them were a few fetal bones. Many of the skulls bore marks of violence, leading to the belief that they were broken before burial. One was pierced by a round hole, like that produced by a musket ball. A single piece of a brass vessel was found in the pit; it had been packed in furs. A large number of shell beads, of various sizes, were also found here. Besides these, there were some cylindrical pieces of earthenware and porcelain or glass tubes, from an eighth to a quarter of an inch in diameter, and from a quarter to two inches long.15The former had the appearance of red and white tobacco-pipes, worn away by friction, the latter of red and white glass. A hexagonal body, with flat ends, about an inch and a half in diameter, and an inch thick, was also found. It was composed of some kind of porcelain, of hard texture, nearly vitreous, and much variegated in color, with alternate layers of red, blue, and white. It was perforated through the centre.
“The third of these pits was examined in November, 1847. It is situated in the township of Oro, on elevated ground. The soil is a light sandy loam. It measures about fifteen feet in diameter, has the distinctly defined elevated ring, but the centre less depressed than in those before examined, which may have resulted from the greater bulk of its contents. On its margin grew formerly a large pine, the roots of which had penetrated through the pit in every direction.The bones, which were of all sizes, were scarcely covered with earth. The skeletons amounted to several hundreds in number, and were well preserved. On some, pieces of tendon still remained, and the joints of the small bones in some cases were unseparated. Some of the skulls bore marks of violence.
“As in the first noticed pit, so in this, were found twenty-six kettles—four of brass and the rest of copper, one conch-shell, one iron axe, and a number of the flat perforated shell beads. The kettles were arranged in the form of a cross through the centre of the pit, and in a row around the circumference. The points of this cross seem to have corresponded with the cardinal points of the compass. All except two of the kettles were placed with their mouths downwards. The shell was found under one of the kettles, which had been packed with beaver-skins and bark. The kettles were very well preserved, but had all been rendered useless by blows from a tomahawk. The holes were broken in the bases of the vessels. Should any doubt exist as to the purposes of these pits, the fact that the kettles were thus rendered unserviceable would tend to increase that doubt, as it appears to have been a proceeding so very contrary to the habits and ideas of the Indians in general.16
“A pipe was found in this pit, described as having been composed of blue limestone or hard clay. On one side it had a human face, the eyes of which were formed of white pearly beads. An iron axe and sundry beads were also found here.
“A fourth pit was opened in December, 1847. It is situated on a gentle slope, in the second concession west of the Penetanqueshene road, in the township of Giny. In size it corresponds very nearly with the two first described, and probably contained about the same number of skeletons. In it were found sixteen conch-shells; a stone and clay pipe; a number of copper bracelets and ear ornaments; eleven beads of red pipe-stone; copper arrow-heads; a cup of iron resembling an old iron ladle; beads of several kinds, and various fragments of furs. The shells were arranged around the bottom of the pit, not in a regular row, but in threes and fours; the other articles were found mixed with the bones. The bones were of all sizes, and the skulls uninjured except by time. The accompanying sketch (Fig. 7) will sufficiently indicate the character of the pipes. The arrow-heads, as they are supposed to have been, were simple folds of sheet copper, resembling a roughly-formed ferule to a walking stick. Besides the flat circular beads, which were found in great numbers, were a few cylindrical porcelain beads, etc. The red-stone beads were five eighths of an inch broad, and three eighths thick, with small holes at one end, uniting with each other.
“There is reason to believe that the above constitute but a very small proportion of the pits that may be found in this neighborhood. The French Canadians, now that their attention has been directed to the subject, say that they are of frequent occurrence in the woods. But besides these larger and more evident excavations, smaller ones of the same shape and apparent character are often met with. They are usually called ‘potato-pits.’ So far as they have been examined, they do not contain deposits. Some appear to have been covered with bark at the bottom. One was examined in which were found some pieces of pottery and one or two human bones mixed with stones and black mould; which seemed to strengthen the supposition previously formed, that they were Indian graves from which the bones had been removed for interment in the large pits.
“A fifth pit has also been examined. It occurs about eight miles from Penetanqueshene, near the centre of the town of Giny. Close by its side is another pit, which is not circular but elongated, with a mound on each side. At the brow of the hill, if it may be so called, and commencing about twenty yards from the pits, there is the appearance of a long ditch extending in a southwestern direction; another ditch about half the length of this meets it at right angles on the top of the rising ground, and is continued a few yards beyond the point of junction; a third ditch intersects the short one, as shown in the following plan.
Figure 8.
“The two first ditches form two sides of a parallelogram; but there is no sign of an enclosure at the other sides, where the ground is low and nearly level. The long ditch is seventy-five paces in length, the other half that length. The first terminates at a moderate sized gum-tree, the latter at the foot of a large birch. These ditches appear to be a succession of small pits or graves, and have an average depth of from one to two feet. Excavation disclosed no bones. Upon the north side of the shorter and upper ditch, several Indian graves were found, not placed in any order, but scattered around at various distances apart. Three of these were examined and found to contain human bones. In one was an entire skeleton. No implements or ornaments accompanied the bones.
“The bones in the large pits were covered with three or four feet of earth, which is more than is usually found over them, and the marginal ring was in consequence less apparent. It contained very few relics besides the bones, which, from their decayed condition, seemed to indicate that burials here were made at a very remote period.”
In Isle Ronde, situated near the extremity of Lake Huron, is a burial-place of the aborigines corresponding generally with those just described. It was visited in 1843 by Mr. Schoolcraft, who states that the human remains appeared to have been gathered from their original place of sepulture and finally deposited here. The bones were all arranged longitudinally, from north to south, in a wide grave or trench. There is upon the same island an Indian cemetery of comparatively modern date, in which the interments were made in the ordinary way. Another similar burial-place was visited by Mr. Schoolcraft, in the town of Hamilton, seventeen miles west of the head of Lake Ontario. The burials had been made on a high, dry ridge, in long trenches and rude vaults; the bones being piled upon each other longitudinally as at Isle Ronde. The trenches extend over the entire ridge; and one of these examined by Mr. Schoolcraft was estimated to include not less than fifteen hundred square feet. Various remains of art, pipes, shells, beads, etc., were found with the bones, and among them several brass kettles, in one of which were five infant skulls.
The origin of the various cemeteries above noticed admits of no doubt. The same practice which Bartram described as existing among the Floridians, and which we have reason to believe prevailed among the Indians of Tennessee, Kentucky, etc., also existed in a slightly modified form among the more northern tribes. They, too, had their solemn “Festival of the Dead,” which is minutely described by Charlevoix, Brabeuf Creuxius, and other early writers. Says Charlevoix: “This grand ceremony, the most curious and celebrated of all connected with the Indian religion, took place every eight years among some of the tribes, every ten years among the Hurons and the Iroquois. It was called the ‘Féto dos Morts,’ Festival of the Dead, or ‘ Festin des Ames.’
“It commenced by the appointment of a place where they should meet. They then chose a president of the feast, whose duty it was to arrange every thing and send invitations to the neighboring villages. The appointed day arrived, all the Indians assembled and went in procession, two and two, to the cemetery. Among some tribes of stationary habits, the cemetery was a regular burial-ground outside the village. Some buried their dead at the foot of a tree, and others suspended them on scaffolds to dry; this last was a common proceeding among them when absent from home on a hunting expedition, so that on their return they might more conveniently carry the body with them.
“Arrived at the cemetery, they proceeded to search for the bodies; they then waited for some time to consider in silence a spectacle so capable of furnishing serious reflections. The women first interrupted the silence by cries of lamentation, which increased the feeling of grief with which each person seemed over- come. They then used to take the bodies, arrange the separate and dry bones, and place them in packets to carry on their shoulders. If any of the bodies were not entirely decomposed, they separated the flesh, washed the bones, and wrapped them in new beaver-skins. They then returned in the same procession in which they came, and each deposited his burden in his cabin. During the procession the women continued their lamentations, and the men testified the same marks of grief as on the death of the person whose bones they bore. This was followed by a feast in each house, in honor of the dead of the family. The succeeding days were considered as public days, and were spent in dancing, games, and combats, at which prizes were bestowed. From time to time they uttered certain cries, which were called ‘les cris des âmes.’
“They made presents to strangers, and received presents from them on behalf of the dead. These strangers sometimes came a hundred and fifty leagues. They also took advantage of these occasions to treat on public affairs or select a chief Every thing passed with order, decency, and moderation; and every one seemed overcome with sentiments suitable to the occasion. Even the songs and dances expressed grief in some way. After some days thus spent, all went in procession to a grand council-room fitted for the occasion. They then suspended the bones and bodies in the same state as they had taken them from the cemetery, and placed there the presents intended for the dead. If among the skeletons there happened to be one of a chief, his successor gave a grand feast in his name. In some cases the bodies were paraded from village to village, and every where received with great demonstrations of grief and tenderness, and every where presents were made to them. They then took them to the spot designated as their final resting-place. All their ceremonies were accompanied with music, both instrumental and vocal, to which each marched in cadence.
“The last and common place of burial was a large pit, which was lined with the finest skins and any thing which they considered valuable. The presents destined for the dead were placed on one side; and when the procession arrived, each family arranged itself on a sort of scaffold around the pit; and as soon as the bodies were deposited, the women began again to cry and lament. Then all the assistants descended into the pit, and each person took a handful of earth, which he carefully preserved, supposing it would serve to give them success in their undertakings. The bodies and bones were arranged in order, and covered with furs and bark, over which were placed stones, wood, and earth. Each person then returned to his home, but the women used to go back from day to day with some sagamatie (pounded parched corn).” 17
14. Dr. Bern W. Budd, of New York, states that this shell, the pyrula perverse, abounds in the Gulf of Mexico and particularly in Mobile Bay. It has also been found by the officers of the U. S. Coast Survey as far north as Cape Fear, in North Carolina.
15. These were clearly the European imitations of the much prized Indian wampum.
16. Dr. Bawtree is mistaken in supposing this practice uncommon. The Oregon Indians invariably render useless every article deposited with their dead, so as to remove any temptation to a desecration of the grave which might otherwise exist. A similar practice prevailed among the Floridian Indians.
17. Charlevoix, Vol. II., p. 194, ubi supra; Creuxii Historia Canadensis, p. 97.
If you are willing and able, you can find thousands of references to mounds, bones, artifacts, and remnants of ancient Hopewell with the Nephites and Lamanites timeline all over the area of New York, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Only a fool will not look for evidence but simply close their mind and complain.
A friend of mine named Glenn asked me this question, “If the New York Hill is the one spoken of by Joseph Smith, why does Mormon 6:6 state the plates for the Book of Mormon were not deposited in Cumorah?” I believe Glenn was asking me about Mormon 6:6 which says, “save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.” This led me into a thoughtful response I share below.
“At about one mile west rises another ridge of less height, running parallel with the former, leaving a beautiful vale between. The soil is of the first quality for the country, and under a state of cultivation, which gives a prospect at once imposing, when one reflects on the fact, that here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed…Here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed. By turning to the 529th and 530th pages of the Book of Mormon, you will read Mormon’s account of the last great struggle of his people, as they were encamped round this hill Cumorah. In this valley fell the remaining strength and pride of a once powerful people, the Nephites—once so highly favored of the Lord, but at that time in darkness, doomed to suffer extermination by the hand of their barbarous and uncivilized brethren. From the top of this hill, Mormon, with a few others, after the battle, gazed with horror upon the mangled remains of those who, the day before, were filled with anxiety, hope, or doubt.” Oliver Cowdery’s Letter VII Joseph Smith Papers “Letter VII,” LDS Messenger and Advocate, July 1835, 1:155–159 .
“Many members of the Church believe the events in the Book of Mormon began in Mesoamerica and a “hill” somewhere in Mexico was “the hill” (maybe a hill like Cumorah in New York) where the majority of Jaredite and Nephites records were hidden. They do believe the plates found by Joseph Smith in New York were the ones translated to become today’s Book of Mormon. Most of these members however, also believe the final battles between the Nephites and Lamanites happened somewhere in Mexico and not in New York at what we call hill Cumorah. Here is what the heading in the Book of Mormon says in regard to Mormon 6:6. “The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah” Heading chapter 6. These Mesoamericanists believe this heading refers to what happened in Mexico, not America.
We read Mormon 6:6 saying, “And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.” First if Mormon would “not suffer the records…to fall into the hands of the Lamanites…”, wouldn’t that include ANY records including “these few” plates that Moroni had left? Yes!
Let’s assume “all the records” were hid up in the hill Cumorah as Mormon says above, except the very few plates that Mormon had left and gave those to his son Moroni. Which few plates would those be? Possibly those plates that had not been written upon by Mormon so that Moroni could write upon those plates himself. We read in Mormon 8:1, “Behold I, Moroni, do finish the record of my father, Mormon. Behold, I have but few things to write, which things I have been commanded by my father.” That probably means Mormon chapter 1-6 were written on plates by Mormon. The remainder of the few plates then would allow Moroni to write a “few things” in Mormon Chapter 8 and 9. Moroni then abridges the 24 plates of the Jaredites which he includes before he finishes writing on those “few plates” as we see in Ether chapter 1-15.
We sense it was not the complete record of the plates of Nephi, nor was it “all the records”, because we know Moroni also writes his final words in Moroni chapter 1 through 10 on some of those “few plates”, Mormon had left him, and then Moroni runs out of ore as recorded in Mormon 8:5 saying, “Behold, my father hath made this record, and he hath written the intent thereof. And behold, I would write it also if I had room upon the plates, but I have not; and ore I have none, for I am alone.” Mormon 8:5
We know it had been 15 years since the death of Mormon as we read in Mormon 8:6 saying, “Behold, four hundred years have passed away since the coming of our Lord and Savior.” That means Moroni on these few plates was writing Mormon 6 verses 8 and 9, and abridging the 24 Jaredite records, and writing his own words in Moroni chapter 1-10. Were the 24 Jaredite records abridged using the “few plates” Mormon had left him, or were the few plates only Mormon 6 verses 8-9, and the Book of Moroni?
@ 2 Depositories in One Hill Cumorah, NY
My conclusion: I believe there were two depositories at hill Cumorah in New York. One was called Cumorah’s Cave which had wagon loads (See Journal of Discourses, vol. 19, pp. 36-39 by Brigham Young) of Jaredite and Nephite records, along with the Sword of Laban, the Liahona, and many other sacred artifacts. But, the “few plates” Mormon gave to Moroni were added to the original plates of Nephi, as were the 24 Jaredite records, and then Moroni buried them all in the Stone Box at Cumorah not in the Cave of Cumorah.
As Orson Pratt says, “The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . .
These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)
In relation to these records, Orson Pratt commented in 1873: “But will these things be brought to light? Yes. The records, now slumbering in the hill Cumorah, will be brought forth by the power of God, to fulfil the words of our text, that ‘the knowledge of God shall cover the earth, as the waters cover the deep.’” (Orson Pratt, May 18, 1873, in Journal of Discourses 16:57)
“Cumorah which must become as famous among the Latter-day Saints, as Sinai was among the former day Saints…Cumorah, the artificial hill of North America, is well calculated to stand in this generation, as a monument of marvelous works and wonders.” WW Phelps Letter 12
What is the difference between an Artificial hill and an Official hill?
Hill Cumorah is not an “official” hill, but is defined as a drumlin.
“Drumlin, oval or elongated hill believed to have been formed by the streamlined movement of glacial ice sheets across rock debris, or till. The name is derived from the Gaelic word druim (“rounded hill,” or “mound”) and first appeared in 1833.” Britannica.com
Below, W.W. Phelps calls Cumorah an “artificial” hill. What would he mean by the name, artificial hill? One that is obviously different than a typical dirt hill, or rock hill as we usually think? In other words official or typical hills naturally formed would have natural caves within. The Hill Cumorah was not a typical hill such as we normally understand, i.e. mountain, or mount etc. Hill Cumorah was a drumlin which many people don’t know the difference between that and a typical hill. Webster’s current dictionary says, “Definition of drumlin: an elongate or oval hill of glacial drift… First Known Use of drumlin 1812, in the meaning defined above.” So a drumlin was formed from glacial drift unlike many hills we usually think of.
Because of W.W. Phelps quote below, I assume the Mesoamerican theorists who are looking for the Hill Cumorah somewhere in Mesoamerica, are looking only at hills or mountains that could have a natural cave, and not a man-made cave? I don’t know.
WW Phelps calls Cumorah, the artificial hill of North America, so let’s examine what that may mean.
ARTIFI’CIAL, adjective
1. Made or contrived by art, or by human skill and labor, in opposition to natural; as artificial heat or light; an artificial magnet. 2. Feigned, fictitious; not genuine or natural; as artificial tears. 3. Contrived with skill or art. 4. Cultivated; not indigenous; not being of spontaneous growth; as artificial grasses. 1828 Websters Dictionary
So, we should be looking for an “artificial hill” or a man-made hill, and not a typical cave that would naturally occur with typical mountains. That may mean there are no artificial hills in Mesoamerica? I’m not saying that, but it seems some are.
The Geologic History of Hill Cumorah Michael J. Dorais
Setting of Hill Cumorah
“Cumorah is perhaps the most famous drumlin in the world, other than Breed’s Hill, where the Battle of Bunker Hill took place during the American Revolutionary War. A drumlin, after the Gaelic word druim for hill, is an elongated hill formed by glacial processes. Cumorah is one of 10,000 similar hills of west-central New York that compose one of the largest drumlin fields in the world (see Picture below). The field defines an east-west trending belt about 35 miles wide bordering the south side of Lake Ontario and extends for about 140 miles from Syracuse to the Niagara River. In order to understand the processes that formed Hill Cumorah, a brief explanation of the causes of continental glaciation, the extent of Pleistocene glaciation, and the geomorphological evidence of glaciation in the Palmyra region of New York is in order.
This Greenland ice sheet resembles the ice sheet that once lay across the northeastern corridor of the United States and created an extensive drumlin field. Photo courtesy of Peter G. Knight.
Origin and Characteristics of Drumlins and Hill Cumorah
A type of drift deposited by continental glaciers, drumlins are not uniformly distributed under continental glaciers but form in distinct areas called drumlin swarms or fields (see picture above). Although their dimensions vary, drumlins are elongated, tapered hills that range from one-half to three-quarters of a mile in length, are about a quarter of a mile wide, and rise approximately 100 to 150 feet above the surrounding lowlands. In profile, they resemble inverted spoons with the shallow lee slope pointing in the direction of ice flow (see sketch below). The aspect ratios of drumlins are thought to reflect the speed of the glacier that produced them. That is, narrower and longer drumlins may indicate faster glacial movements than wider, shorter ones.
Because the formation of drumlins is a process that occurs under glaciers and is unobservable, the origin of drumlins has been a controversial topic. One theory is that because some drumlins contain stratified sands and gravels similar to those deposited by streams, the drumlins are water deposits. Subglacial flooding is thought to carry immense volumes of floodwater and sediment in cavities between the glacier and its underlying rock and sediment bed. Another theory is that because other drumlins are not stratified but consist of till, a poorly sorted sediment deposited by glaciers, drumlins are the result of a deformable layer of sediment between the glacier and bedrock. The sediment layer that forms drumlins is shaped by pressure exerted by the mass of the overlying glacier, with the sediment migrating to lower pressure regions under the ice sheet. Beginning about 19,000 years ago, when the Laurentide Ice Sheet began to melt at a faster rate than snow. (Editor’s note: In my opinion dating could be wrong by quite a bit) accumulated at its source, the margin of the glacier retreated, disappearing entirely from the Palmyra area around 12,000 years ago.
Aerial photo of drumlin field in northern Saskatchewan caused by an ice flow from the bottom left. Photo from Douglas I. Benn and David J. A. Evans, Glaciers and Glaciation (1998). Reprinted by permission.
As the ice retreated, glacial features that had formed below the ice sheet were exposed, including the large drumlin fields of west-central New York. Hill Cumorah is typical of the drumlins of this region, being 1.7 miles long and 0.4 miles wide and attaining a height of 140 feet above the lowland topography. The hill is also typical because its elongated profile is shaped like an inverted spoon with one end of the hill being steeper (the location of the Angel Moroni Monument and the pageant) and the other tapering off at a shallower angle (see sketch below). Perpendicular to its length, the hill has a cross-sectional profile common to drumlins, namely, a wide base of several hundred feet and a narrow summit, especially at the northern end where it narrows to less than 20 feet. Drumlins are composed of a variety of materials including mixtures of till, sand, and gravel. Most of these materials have high porosity and permeability, which, combined with the slope of the hill, would have allowed efficient water drainage that could have been important in the preservation of the plates, Urim and Thummim, Laban’s sword, and the Liahona over the centuries after their deposition in the stone box by Moroni. The tills and outwash deposits from the ice sheet at Palmyra are excellent sources of sand and gravel and are well suited for agriculture. It was these fertile soils that attracted the Smiths and other early agriculturally minded settlers. Indeed, had glaciation and till deposition not produced good farmlands in western New York, the Smiths might not have migrated there, and the restoration of the gospel might have commenced elsewhere. We readily recognize that the religious freedoms provided by the Constitution of the United States, coupled with the religious fervor that swept western New York in the early 1800s, were essential to pro-viding the political and cultural conditions necessary for the restoration of the gospel.
Profile and cross section of a drumlin with typical elongated and inverted-spoon shape.
But it was the development of the appropriate climate and agricultural conditions of western New York by glaciation and till deposition that brought the Smiths to Palmyra. Once the family was there, the unique political and cultural conditions provided the appropriate setting for the boy prophet to begin his divinely appointed mission. While it is faith promoting to see the Lord’s foresight in the preparation and preservation of the plates, it is also faith promoting to see an even greater foreknowledge of the Lord throughout the thousands of years of geologic history that led to the formation of Hill Cumorah and the surrounding lands. For he who has seen “the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power” (Doctrine and Covenants 88:47).” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies. The Geologic History of Hill Cumorah Michael J. Dorais 142 VOLUME 13, NUMBER 1–2, 2004 JOURNAL OF BOOK OF MORMON STUDIES 143
The majority of Mesoamerican theorists believe that Moroni deposited the gold plates in a hill, but not the Hill Cumorah in New York. These same theorists also believe the final battles of the Nephites to be somewhere in Mesoamerica. I don’t agree with this perspective. .
In Ether 15:11 Moroni says that the same hill that the Jaredites were destroyed was called Ramah, and was the same hill that Mormon hid the plates. It makes sense that all the plates were buried in the man made cave or depository in the Hill Cumorah, and not in Moroni’s man made stone box that held the set of plates Joseph translated.
We believe there are two repositories in Cumorah for all the records. Both man made. First, the *Cave at Cumorah spoken of by Heber C. Kimball, Brigham Young and many others. Secondly, the stone box where Joseph Smith found the plates that were sealed with the Urim and Thummim and the Jaredite Breastplate.
*Quote about the Cave at Cumorah
“Brother Mills mentioned in his song, that crossing the Plains with hand-carts was one of the greatest events that ever transpired in this Church. I will admit that it is an important event, successfully testing another method for gathering Israel, but its importance is small in comparison with the visitation of the angel of God to the Prophet Joseph, and with the reception of the sacred records from the hand of Moroni at the hill Cumorah. How does it compare with the vision that Joseph and others had, when they went into a cave in the hill Cumorah, and saw more records than ten men could carry? There were books piled up on tables, book upon book. Those records this people will yet have, if they accept the Book of Mormon and observe it’s precepts, and keep the commandments.” Heber C. Kimball Journal of Discourses, 4:105, September 28, 1856
Orson Pratt- One Hill Cumorah- Two Depositories
“The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . . “These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417) “In relation to these records, Orson Pratt commented in 1873: “But will these things be brought to light? Yes. The records, now slumbering in the hill Cumorah, will be brought forth by the power of God, to fulfil the words of our text, that ‘the knowledge of God shall cover the earth, as the waters cover the deep.’” (Orson Pratt, May 18, 1873, in Journal of Discourses 16:57)
Mormon 6: Chapter 6 Notes
The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.
Ether Chapter 15 Notes
Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.
Ether 15:11 “And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did hide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.”
Main Street, Canandaigua, New York, c. 1830 (at the time W. W. Phelps was publishing his Ontario Phoenix)
LETTER NO. 12 W.W. Phelps to Oliver Cowdery
I want to drop an idea or two about Cumorah. Yes, Cumorah which must become as famous among the latter-day saints, as Sinai was among the former day saints. — The law of the Lord, by the hand of Moses, was received upon Sinai, for the benefit of Israel, before they entered the goodly land of Canaan, and before they were scattered and driven among ail nations; and the fulness of the everlasting gospel, the history of the first settlers of America; even the book of Mormon, preparatory to gathering Israel from their long dispersion, came from Cumorah: Glorious spot! — sacred depository! out of thee came the glad tidings which will rejoice thousands! Israel must be restored to mercy; a holy people raised up unto God to possess the promised land, to bring the present unto the Lord of hosts, even to Mount Zion, as Isaiah foretold more than three thousand years ago.
Cumorah, the artificial hill of north America, is well calculated to stand in this generation, as a monument of marvelous works and wonders. Around that mount died millions of the Jaredites; yea, there ended one of the greatest nations of this earth. In that day, her inhabitants spread from sea to sea, and enjoyed national greatness and glory, nearly fifteen hundred years. — That people forsook the Lord and died in wickedness. There, too, fell the Nephites, after they had forgotten the Lord that bought them. There slept the records of age after age, for hundreds of years, even until the time of the Lord: —
“An angel came down from the regions of glory
“And told that a record was hid in Cumorah,
“Containing the fulness of Jesus’s gospel,
“And also the cov’nant to gather his people.”
“There began the church of Christ in 1830; yea, there the stone cut out of the mountain without hands, as foretold by Daniel, commenced rolling to fill the earth, and may it continue, in a moral sense, in dreadful splendor, till it fills the whole, and wickedness is ended. So much for the Hill Cumorah…”
As ever,
W.W. PHELPS.
To Oliver Cowdery.
LATTER DAY SAINTS’ MESSENGER AND ADVOCATE Vol. II No. 2 KIRTLAND, OHIO, Nov 1835 Page 221
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today, has the exact rock that was covering the stone box at Cumorah, or something very similar as you will read about in the Letter below from Kathy Burris’ father Lee Ward, and her other information.
On Dec 17, 2019 Rian Nelson received an email from Kathy Burris giving him permission to post her email that she had sent to Rod Meldrum below. She mentioned it is fine to include her father’s name; Lee Ward, who has passed away. Kathy shared these experiences at the FIRM Foundation Conference in April 2016. We haven’t located the video tape.
My name is Kathy Burris. Last year I contacted Wayne May regarding use of some of his PPT slides for a presentation that I often give at various Stake firesides. I grew up in Palmyra, NY, and over the years have had some very powerful experiences regarding the truthfulness of Joseph Smith, his family and the Book of Mormon.
As we are a military family, and move quite often, it seems that where I move people ask that I do this presentation for Ward, R.S., Stake and sometime tri-stake firesides. The feedback that I get is that it has helped so many to strengthen their testimony about Joseph Smith, the Man and the prophet. I want you to know that I often suggest that they review your video and give them the link to your website. I get a lot of people during the Q&A portion of my presentation for more information on your presentation and website, as well as Wayne’s. I highly promote this evidence and completely dispute the Central America belief system, which often gets a lot of blank stares as it still seems to be the most believed “theory” among LDS today, which astounds me. However, by the end of my presentation, and the brief explanation I am able to throw in there for the evidence, they seem VERY intrigued to look in that direction.
As I became acquainted with Wayne, I shared with him some personal stories that I would like to share with you later on in this email. I just completed watching your video again (one of my favorites as it gets me pumped up right before I have to give a presentation, along with re-reading Lucy Mack Smith’s biography) regarding the DNA evidences of the Book of Mormon and have to say that many of what you state I knew. Not because I had heard it before, but because of my own research and testimony. My father [Lee Ward] was quite the historian in the Palmyra area. So much so that the church would ask him to give special tours to “VIP” that would visit the area. He had studied for so long areas that are “off the beaten path” so to speak of the normal Palmyra / Fayette Upstate NY church historical sites, along with the ancient Indian sites in the area; (the Native American history was one of my father’s favorite things to research, second only to church history). This love of history spilled over and I would often find myself pleading with my father on Saturdays to take me on a “church” tour because I loved those off the beaten spots and because I just loved being with my father.
I remember as a child when the Central America idea became popular. My parents, both very well-read in church history and archaeology, got every book they could find on the matter. However, I remember the overall consensus after doing their research that the findings just simply did not add up to Joseph Smith’s own personal statements, references and scriptural context. So, when you presented much of what Joseph has said on the subject regarding evidence of the Book of Mormon here in the United States, that is exactly what I had been brought up with from all the research my father had done regarding this subject based on Joseph Smith.
Alvin Smith’s grave is located in the Swift Cemetery just north of Four Corners one block from main street in Palmyra. It is said to be on an ancient Indian Mound.
My father LOVED Joseph Smith. As a matter of fact, his testimony and conversion came more from the D&C than from the BofM because he loved history so much and he loved Joseph. And, growing up in Palmyra, you couldn’t help but have a connection to the Smith family. So, as I grew up and started my young life on the coat tail of my parent’s testimony, my love for church history and Joseph Smith blossomed. I found myself going to the local library and searching all the articles, ads and such that had been written in the local papers of the time about the Smiths. I was blown away with the extent of information I would find. It was worse than modern-day paparazzi and was amazed how they did not go “insane” with all the bad press that would constantly lead to their afflictions and persecution. I often went to Alvin Smith’s grave [Located 1 block north west of the Grandin building on Main St. Palmyra]and talked to him, as if he was a long-time friend. Soon, he became just that, a very dear friend. Or sitting on the J.S. home porch in the evenings if I had a horrific test the next day, or was once again picked-on because I was a Mormon and I just needed to be close to the the Smith Family because I knew, of all people, they would understand me. Or sitting at the top of the Hill Cumorah and envision what Mormon witnessed before the destruction of his people. Over the years I can honestly say that not only did I gain a personal testimony of Joseph as a man and prophet, but a love, admiration and a very strong friendship with the entire Smith family.
East Lawn of Red Brick Store. Fence is the Joseph Smith Family Cemetery and Nephite Cemetery
Some interesting personal experiences you may find interesting. Of the many testimonies and letters that have been written by church authorities and prophets testifying that the Hill Cumorah in Upstate New York is indeed THE hill as stated in the Book of Mormon, my father relates a personal story. Gordon B. Hinckley was out for a visit and my father was one assigned to his security. President Hinckley wanted to go to the top of the Hill so my father and a few of the men on the security team followed him. While on top my father said President Hinckley was very contemplative as he looked out over the horizon. Everyone was quiet and reverent as they should be.
Suddenly, he turned to my father and the men and prophetically stated that he is a witness that they are standing on the very Hill that not only housed the records given to Joseph, but the very Hill where the destruction of the Nephites took place as stated in the Book of Mormon.
This experience, with so many other prophetic statements I have read from previous prophets and apostles, is another “nail in the coffin” so to speak that the two Hill Cumorah theory is just not relevant. I don’t know about you but when a prophet of the Lord prophesies in such a way, end of story. I have often found it perplexing why these LDS scholars seem to constantly ignore these prophetic statements. I know they are good men and women and their hearts are in the right place, but how can you dismiss these statements. I also remember years before that when President Benson came out to visit, he prophesied the same thing and it was revealed to the Stake at Stake Conference that was held at the Hill (once a year when I was young, they use to have Stake Conference at the Hill. It always amazed me how it never rained).
Years ago, when the church was working on filming “How Rare A Possession,” (See Video Here) the Church contacted brother [L…] in our stake. [Le…] was quite a well-known, successful landscaper in the area (I also dated his son). They asked him if he could locate a rock that would be as close to the dimensions of the rock that would have covered the stone box where the plates were deposited.[L…] took this task VERY seriously and read the entire BofM in three days (morning and night). At around 3AM, just as he finished the last page, he knelt down in prayer and asked the Lord to guide him to such a rock. Upon finishing his supplication he heard a voice tell him to go to the Hill at that moment. He lived about 45 minutes from the Hill. By the time he arrived, the sun was just starting to rise. He said within 15 minutes he was directed to a spot on the Hill and as he peered down he noticed a tip of a rock jutting out of the hillside. As he started to dig, he realized how large this stone truly was. Then he heard another voice tell him, this is THE stone....the very stone that laid on top of the box. He immediately stopped his digging and decided to contact the Church. Upon calling them to tell them he believes he found THE stone, the brother told him that they knew and already had 4 men on a flight out there to meet with him and that he was to wait until they got there before removal of the stone. He said it took 5 men to lift the stone. The stone was used in the filming of the movie and is currently kept in the granite vaults in UT. You may be aware from your historical research that the actual stone box was reported by Oliver Cowdery that “the casket had been washed down to the foot of the Hill.” Thus, the box is no longer.
Rod at Steps of Red Brick Store Nauvoo Searching with, I Dig Nauvoo Team
He asked the Brethren if he would be allowed to show the place where he found it. However, the church concerned that the spot would be desecrated, they told him he could show only two families. He chose my family along with another. A FHE picnic was held at the Hill with all three families, and then he took the families to the spot where the stone was found. My mother and brother both said later that they noticed small rocks that seemed to be put in a circular fashion and [L…] said he had not put them there and also noticed the rocks. He assumed Joseph had placed them there (or maybe even Moroni) as a quick marker to help him locate the area upon his return each year. A few years later, in 1990, the church rewrote the script for the Hill Cumorah Pageant. This required that the entire front face of the Hill be torn up in order to fit the new stage. I remember at this time I was working at the Hill for the Church. My father and family were well respected, especially anything pertaining to history, artifacts, etc. Therefore, all the senior missionaries knew my father and family very well as he was often sought after for his “special” local tours. One day as I was working there, and having a great relationship with the senior missionaries, one of the elders quietly asked me to come with him. he took me to a room in the Visitor Center that was locked. Upon entering, in there were boxes upon boxes of arrow heads. He told me that during the current dig, they were uncovering all these arrow heads. The Church asked the current contracted excavator (which happened to be [L…] and his crew), to quietly, discreetly keep all artifacts they may find and store them quickly. They did not want anything leaked to the public for fear of a mass “run” to the Hill, which could potentially cause liability issues and safety concerns during excavation. Not to mention it could hold up the process and they were on a very tight deadline for completion for the upcoming Pageant. I remember how in awe I was to see so many boxes. He told me not to touch any, and that he probably shouldn’t be showing me, but he knew I would appreciate seeing these artifacts for myself, knowing how much my father and I were local historians. It wasn’t but a few days later he approached me and said that when he went to the room that morning, they were all gone. He said he believed the Church had come and quietly removed them in the middle of the night for safety reasons. We can only suspect that they have also been moved to the Granite vaults.
I say this because it INFURIATES me when the LDS scholars continue to state that the Hill Cumorah in New York could not possibly be the site of the last battle because there is no evidence. As a little girl, growing up in the area, arrow heads were as abundant as rocks. It was so common to find arrow heads that they didn’t seem any big deal. I remember collecting them and trading them with school kids as they were more popular than marbles, cards or what not.…that is how prevalent they are in that area. So, when I contacted them last year to tell them this very story, of course the response is that it is a nice story, but without evidence to back it up, it again proves nothing. RRRRRRRRR
Now, one last story as I could be here all day and night, but regarding Joseph Smith’s vision/revelation that there are more plates being stored in the Hill Cumorah. There was a close friend of my fathers a number of years ago who stumbled on a cave in the back of the Hill. He said that he stumbled on it by accident and as he ventured farther and farther inside, he realized it was quite deep and had chambers to it. Without proper equipment, he felt it would be dangerous for him to venture any farther. This man was a very well-respected man in our Stake (was on the Stake Presidency), and very well educated. He immediately contacted my father and asked if he would go with him to explore this new found cave. Of course my father jumped at the chance. A few days later he called and said it would have to be put on hold because he had to go on an emergency business trip for his company, Kodak, but upon his return, they would proceed. About a month later my father, who was chomping at the bit, was called and he once again apologized but that Kodak was moving his family out West and that he was so busy getting his affairs together that he couldn’t break away to explore at that time. However, he was going to return the following year about a month before Pageant, and that he would like them to go and explore the cave at that time. Of course my father had no choice but to agree and wait patiently. He was tempted on several occasions to go on his own as this man did give him a good description of where he had discovered the cave entrance, but my father having nothing but the best integrity of any individual I knew, felt that it would not be right to do so without him as he was the one that made the discovery.
By Rian Nelson
Sure enough a year passed and he received a phone call….from this man’s wife. She sadly told my father that a few days prior he had passed away, told him of the funeral, and then told him she knew he was looking so forward to exploring that cave with him and how disappointed my father must be. of course he was more concerned for her well-being. However, after hanging up the phone he turned to my mother and said, “I NOW KNOW that the Lord does NOT want that cave to be discovered and explored.” So, even though the temptation was there the rest of his life, he felt strongly that he was not to go. I often think so much of my father for this event because he was privileged to know that there was a cave there. And, that the Lord, knowing my father’s integrity, allowed him to have this knowledge of the cave, but, he trusted my father so much with that information, knowing he would not take advantage of it. It was always the one piece of historical “evidence” that my father had always wanted to explore, discover, etc….the “one that got away” so to speak.
But, he KNEW it was protected of the Lord and like any strong, loyal, loving and faithful member of the Church, knew better to disobey.
I just felt strongly to share these experiences with you because whenever I review your presentation, I feel like I am hearing my father all over again (he passed away three years ago). Thank you so much for all the hard work you have done. Your exhaustive research! I feel strongly that you have been lead with the Spirit and that these things are truth! I know this as sure as I know the Book of Mormon and the prophet Joseph Smith to be true.
Wayne had told me about this incredible find of the possible site for the temple across from Nauvoo…..if I had the time, the money and the freedom (have six adopted children and a husband that is deployed), I would so want to be part of this amazing event. God bless you all!! Kathy Burris [Bold, colors and italics have been added. Some names have been left out at the request of Kathy]
Kathy Alissa Burris Bio
Kathy Alissa Burris was born and raised in Palmyra, New York. She attended Brigham Young University and served a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. She worked in Human Resources for Mercer Consulting Firm and Cummins, Inc. Kathy currently resides outside of Seattle, WA. She and her husband have adopted six, special needs children from all over this beautiful planet. As two of her children are deaf, her family speak both English and American Sign Language. Kathy spent many years working at the LDS church historic sites around Palmyra, performed in the Hill Cumorah Pageant for many years and gained an unfailing testimony of the Gospel that was forged by the constant anti-Mormon sentiment prevalent in the Village of Palmyra and surrounding communities. Her father, Lee Ward, became an amateur church historian and was often asked to give visitors personal tours of the region. She was blessed to learn and attend these tours of the known and often unknown LDS and Native American historic landmarks of the Finger Lakes vicinity. Growing up in the area of the restoration of the Gospel, Kathy gained many personal experiences that solidified her testimony and love for Joseph Smith as a man and a prophet. Due to her love of history, Kathy frequently attended the local libraries where she researched the Smith Family and Palmyra history. During her studies, she became overwhelmed of the unwavering strength of the Smith family during their extensive persecution and trials while living in Palmyra. Their personal hardships helped Kathy persevere through her own maltreatment simply being a member of the Church in the Palmyra area. Kathy’s husband is an active duty officer in the United States Army. This profession has given her family the privilege of living in many areas in the United States, affording her the opportunity to present her personal experiences growing up in Palmyra to many Ward and Stake firesides and conferences over the years. Kathy is currently the Gospel Principles teacher for her ward in Eatonville, WA.
“Growing Up in Palmyra NY: A Testimony of the Prophetic Calling of Joseph Smith and the Restoration” Kathy’s presentation focuses on the known and little known historic places, people and events that occurred in and around Palmyra, NY, along with the Book of Mormon events that occurred in the area of Cumorah. Kathy shares her personal stories, historic finds and artifacts relating to the Smith family and Book of Mormon, all the while instilling a powerful testimony of the divine calling of the Prophet, Joseph Smith, and the physical and spiritual events surrounding the Book of Mormon and it’s peoples.” Kathy burris
Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835 Stone Box and Contents Described “The manner in which the plates were deposited: First, a hole of sufficient depth, (how deep I know not) was dug. At the bottom of this was laid a stone of suitable size, the upper surface being smooth. At each edge was placed a large quantity of cement, and into this cement, at the four edges of this stone, were placed, erect, four others, their bottom edges resting in the cement at the outer edges of the first stone. The four-last named, when placed erect, formed a box, the corners, or where the edges of the four came in contact, were also cemented so firmly that the moisture from without was prevented from entering. It is to be observed, also, that the inner surface of the four erect, or side stones was smoothe. This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph… I must not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillars were not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstances you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.” Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835
Buried in the Stone box, the Interpreters, Spectacles & Breastplate, Not Brown Seer Stone and a Hat.
The Heartland Research Group with John Lefgren, Mike and Betty LaFontaine and their entire team, are continually studying research from the Old World and the New World as a testimony that Jesus is the Christ.
In essence they are helping the world join the two Sticks of Ezekiel where it says in the introduction of Ezekiel in the LDS King James Version Bible, “Ezekiel is shown the valley of dry bones—Israel will inherit the land in the Resurrection—The stick of Judah (the Bible) and the stick of Joseph (the Book of Mormon) will become one in the Lord’s hand—The children of Israel will be gathered and cleansed—David (the Messiah) will reign over them—They will receive the everlasting gospel covenant.” This research is becoming a very significant archaeological and ground breaking reunion of the House of Israel. A “miracle book” from the earth [Stone Box at Cumorah] is a sure witness that the “Last Days” are at hand. The rejoining of the Lord’s people and histories from Promised Lands of Israel and America, is a witness to the world of Christ’s ultimate love for all of His people on every continent.
The connection of the Old World Phoenicians, likely bringing some of tribe of Judah like Mulek to America is of significance, as we join the two worlds. The ‘Phoenicia’ Voyages of 2009 and 2020 are an ideal test of the veracity of the Book of Mormon account. Former English Navy Captain Philip Beale, shows not only that the materials and technology of 600 BC allowed him to construct an ocean-going vessel representative of both Lehi’s group and the Mulekites voyages, as they may have crossed the Atlantic and landed near Florida in North America Blog Here You can now assist Heartland Research by donating or helping them re-construct that ship in Montrose, Iowa. Donate Here
Every land the Lord has created and every person, are alike unto God. However, God chose a specific place for His people to have the ability to carry out His promises to share the world with His Gospel. The Lord chose two lands, the Holy Land, and land of Adam and his posterity here in America.
As Pres. Hinckley said, “I should like to say a few words about America…No land is without its beauty, no people without their virtues, and I hope that you who come from elsewhere will pardon my saying a few words concerning my own native land, America…surely this is a good land, a choice land, a chosen land. To me it is a miracle, a creation of the Almighty.” Gordon B. Hinckley Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled”, BYU Speeches of the Year, October 29, 1974, pp. 267-68 )
Why did the Lord chose North America? “…in culmination of the grand scheme of schemes, this great nation, the Republic of the United States, might be established upon this land as an asylum for the oppressed; a resting place, it might be said, for the Ark of the covenant, where the temple of our God might be built; where the plan of salvation might be introduced and practiced in freedom, and not a dog would wag his tongue in opposition to the purposes of the Almighty. We believe that this was His object in creating the Republic of the United States; the only land where his work could be commenced or the feet of his people find rest. No other land had such liberal institutions, had adopted so broad a platform upon which all men might stand. We give glory to those patriots for the noble work they did; but we give the first glory to God, our Father and their Father, who inspired them. We take them by the hand as brothers. We believe they did nobly their work, even as we would fain do ours, faithfully and well, that we might not be recreant in the eyes of God, for failing to perform the mission to which He has appointed us.” Bishop Orson F. Whitney, delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, April 19, 1885. Reported by John Irvine. Journal Discourses Volume 26 Page 201
Broken Covenants- Children of Ancient Biblical Israel
From the ground comes compelling evidence of broken covenants with the Lord in Palestine from the Northern Tribes of Israel in 722 BC and the Southern Tribes in 586 BC along with the once mighty nations of the Jaredites [Apx 500 BC] and the Nephites [Apx 400 AD] on North American soil. The Lord is gathering Israel in these last days, with the House of Israel being once again joined together as the Tribe of Joseph, and the Tribe of Judah.
Judges CHAPTER 2
The Lord was righteously angry at the original Children of Israel Scripture says, “And the anger of the Lord was hot against Israel; and he said, Because that this people hath transgressed my covenant.” Judges 2:20
“An angel rebukes Israel for not serving the Lord—As a pattern of future events, a new generation arises that forsakes the Lord and serves Baal and Ashtaroth—The Lord is angry with the children of Israel and ceases to preserve them—He raises up judges to guide and lead them—The Canaanites are left in the land to test Israel.” Heading, Judges Chapter2
Broken Covenants- Children of Book of Mormon Israel
Jaredites:
“And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept offwhen the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.” Ether 2:8
Nephites: “Behold, it is expedient that much should be done among this people, because of the hardness of their hearts, and the deafness of their ears, and the blindness of their minds, and the stiffness of their necks; nevertheless, God is exceedingly merciful unto them, and has not as yet swept them off from the face of the land.” Jarom 1:3
“Therefore, repent ye, and humble yourselves before him, lest he shall come out in justice against you—lest a remnant of the seed of Jacob shall go forth among you as a lion, and tear you in pieces, and there is none to deliver.” Mormon 5:24
Every American is under Covenant with the Lord, which covenant was made by General George Washington on September 22, 1789 at his inauguration. Earlier Washington said, “Come then, my Brethren, unite with us in an indissoluble Union, let us run together to
the same Goal.—We have taken up Arms in Defence of our Liberty, our Property, our Wives, and our Children, we are determined to preserve them, or die.[Compare Moroni’s Title of Liberty statement.] Washington continues, “We look forward with Pleasure to that Day not far remote (we hope) when the Inhabitants of America shall have one Sentiment, and the full Enjoyment of the Blessings of a free Government.” The Papers of George Washington, Revolutionary War Series, vol. 1, 16 June 1775?–?15
Stay Centered in the Covenant Path
Art by Ken Corbett
Our dear Prophet has said, “Today, I spoke from my heart to the Saints in what is often referred to as the heartland of the United States. I shared with my brothers and sisters in Oklahoma and Kansas that their geographic location is a metaphor for how, and where, the Lord wants us to live—in the center of His covenant pathand in the center of our temple covenants. He also wants us to understand the central core of His doctrine and message, which is why He has given us the gift of the Book of Mormon.
“On August 2, 216 BC, near the ancient village of Cannae in Apulia, southeast Italy, there was a battle between the Roman Republic and Carthage during the Second Punic War. Hannibal led the Carthaginians and their allies in encircling and destroying a larger Roman army under Lucius Aemilius Paullus and Gaius Terentius Varro. The battle is regarded as one of the worst defeats in military history. For Hannibal’s army, it was an impressive tactical feat. Hannibal’s reputation as one of antiquity’s greatest tacticians was cemented by this victory.
Today, we would be using the Phoenician Alphabet instead of the Roman Alphabet if Hannibal had succeeded in his campaign against the Romans. The Battle of Cannae profoundly impacted Western history. There is a great deal of information about Hannibal in Roman records. The Romans burned the libraries when they destroyed Carthage, so few records from the Phoenician side have survived.
We know the location of the Battle of Cannae, so we expect the horrific battle on August 2, 216 BC, to be documented archaeologically.
There are records of 85 thousand dead bodies in an area of only a few square miles. This great battle should have left bones, swords, and breastplates in the dirt. There is no doubt in anyone’s mind that the great battle took place. The location of that battle is undeniable. Remember, Hannibal’s army had 37 elephants when it crossed the Alps. We might expect to find a broken piece of an elephant’s toenail in Cannae.
The Roman and Punic armies used metal weapons. An ancient battle of significant proportions was described in ancient records. The field of a few square miles was crammed with over 130,000 warriors, and the first day of the war left at least 60,000 dead, according to conservative estimates. On the Roman side, it was one of the deadliest days in history. What evidence can be found in the archeological record of this battle? As of today, there is no evidence. Cannae has a clean field with nothing to show for one of history’s great battles.
The Hill Cumorah
There are two leading contenders for the location of the final stand of one of America’s great armies. Some say that Cumorah is in Palmyra, New York; others say that Cumorah is some unknown hill in Middle America 2,000 miles south. According to many, the Hill Cumorah in New York has no archaeological evidence of the great battle where General Mormon died.
So here’s the question. Many records provide significant details about the Battle of Cannae. We know where it is. We know what time it was. In the grain fields of Cannae, there are no signs of this great battle today. In Cannae, the fields are archaeologically clean. What evidence is there?
The same is true of the great battle of Mormon’s last stand. In modern times, Cumorah and Cannae’s battlefields are comparable. Significant ancient battles seem unlikely to have occurred in Cumorah or Cannae based on the dirt evidence in New York and Italy. Does that mean these battles didn’t take place? In the modern world, both battles have profoundly influenced history.
In understanding how Cumorah and Cannae played such an essential role in our history, it would be great if there was clear evidence from the ground that great battles were fought in both areas. Today, we only have ancient records and little physical evidence from the ground that would confirm the locations of both battles.” Heartland Research Group
Below, the Heartland Research Group compares a battlefield in Italy, with a battlefield in New York. The analysis is amazingly parallel and convincing, that Hill Cumorah and the surrounding land may indeed have been the final battles of the Nephite’s and Jaredites, without the need to find many remaining artifacts. I however have a blog here, that will show you there were many breastplates, bones, weapons and artifacts found near Cumorah that substantially support that hill indeed, being a place of last battles. Email me at riannelson@aol.com for additional evidences.
Cumorah and Cannae Historic Battles Video by John Lefgren
Morally Obligated to Turn this Land Over
We have discussed the Land in Italy and the Land in New York, now let us ask ourselves, “have we protected and preserved these lands the Lord has given to His people?” Do we not only love the Land but do we also show that love, through obedience to God?
“I looked upon the sun, the glorious luminary of the earth, and also the moon, rolling in their majesty through the heavens, and also the stars shining in their courses and the earth also upon which I stood, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of heaven and the fish of the waters, and also man walking forth upon the face of the earth in majesty, and in the strength of beauty whose power and intelligence in governing the things which are so exceedingly great and marvelous. . . . And when I considered upon these things, my heart exclaimed, ‘Well hath the wise man said, it is a fool that saith in his heart there is no God.’ My heart exclaimed, ‘All these bear testimony and bespeak an omnipotent and omnipresent power, a being who maketh laws and decreeth and bindeth all things in their bounds.” Joseph Smith Letterbook 1, p. 2–3, Joseph Smith Papers, Church History Library, Salt Lake City, Utah; spelling and punctuation modernized.
“The earth is vulnerable. . . . Excessive consumption sullies God’s seas; wanton waste blackens His air. The creation groans under the weight of recklessness and indulgence that neglects both the poor earth and the earth’s poor.” In Honoring Creation, We Honor the Creator,” Apr. 26, 2018, MormonNewsroom.org
Some live lavishly in the moment without a thought for the future. Others believe that because “the earth will [one day] be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory” that we have free license to be wasteful. Spencer W. Kimball, “God Will Not Be Mocked,” Ensign, Nov. 1974, 4–9
“Stewardship in the Church is a very important matter. The Lord has mentioned it in the revelations. We are stewards over these earthly blessings which the Lord has provided, those of us who have this soil and this water. We have no moral latitude, it seems to me. In fact, we are morally obligated to turn this land over to those who succeed us—not drained of its fertility but improved in quality, in productivity, and in usefulness for future generations.” The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 645
I know the Book of Mormon is the word of God based on personal revelation. I have felt the truth of this book by the Spirit of God many times. With that firm witness I also realize that many secondary things associated with the Book of Mormon are also true.
For example, where was the record buried and what other two items were buried with the plates? What type of material are the plates made of, who buried them, is their evidence of of the land they were written in, was Mormon’s cave nearby, who saw the plates in addition to Joseph, how were the plates translated, how would the (Interpreters), Urim and Thummim be described, where is the “North Country” and of course where is Zarahemla, along with many other secondary questions. As Moroni said, “he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.Moroni 10:4-5
Two Main Topics-
Western Heartland (Zarahemla) Eastern Heartland (North Country)
This blog will first address the location about the “North Country” spoken of several times in the Book of Mormon and how that north country is very much associated with the Jaredites and Nephites both, as the final battles for both happened in this “North Country”, but the beginnings of the Nephites began near Florida and the beginning of the Jaredites near Washington State, with them both joining at different times in the north country.
In addition to the north country as an eastern area of the Heartland of north America, I will show you the significance of Zarahemla in the far west area of the Heartland. These locations are great bookends to describe the entirety of that east-west, 900 or so miles of the space we call the Heartland of North America.
The record of Ether describes and connects very well the West and the East heartland area in scripture. In Ether (Jaredites), along with the Words of Omni (Nephites) in several significant places they describe each other, as Mormon abridged the plates for us to know the significance of the entire map.
You will learn below, how connected the Nephites and Jaredites are to this east-west area of the Heartlands. I also believe is it most likely the Jaredites landed near Seattle, Washington, as the Jaredites then spread all over North and South America, with the posterity of the Brother of Jared moving to the eastern Heartland using the Columbia, Missouri, Mississippi, and Ohio Rivers. Other descendants of the Jaredites most likely traveled into Canada, eastern United States and Central and South America. See details here:
Truly there were remnants of the Jaredites all over North and South America when the Nephites landed in Florida. The posterity of the Brother of Jared’s people were destroyed at hill Ramah. “And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did hide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.” The remainder of ancient Jaredites (2200 – 600 BC), remained in the Americas, many years before the coming of the Nephites, Olmecs, Mayans, Vikings, Columbus, and the Pilgrims in 1620 AD.
By Small Means
I believe that in the Book of Mormon text itself (a small means), that Moroni told us what land the plates were buried in (The North Country), and his son Mormon told us where the People of Zarahemla located, North of the Land of First Inheritance which was in Florida. This information seems to have been hiding in plain sightall the time. See also my friend Sam’s additional information below titled, Cumorah truth, right in front of our eyes.
“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty.” 1 Corinthians 1:27
“And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us understanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by small means the Lord can bring about great things.” 1 Nephi 16:29
North Country = Cumorah Area
“And now I, Moroni, proceed to give an account of those ancient inhabitants who were destroyed by the hand of the Lord upon the face of this north country. And I take mine account from the twenty and four plates which were found by the people of Limhi, which is called the Book of Ether.” Ether 1:1-2
Cumorah truth, right in front of our eyes.
As Joseph and Oliver said, “This history was written and deposited, not far from Joseph’s home” near Palmyra, New York. Letter IV
I have a great friend named Sam Dunaway who keeps in touch with me often. He loves the Lord, the Book of Mormon and fully embraces the many truths of the Heartland research. He sent me this quote from Mormon 8.
3 And my father also was killed by them, and I even remainalone to write the sad tale of the destruction of my people. But behold, they are gone, and I fulfil the commandment of my father. And whether they will slay me, I know not.
4 Therefore I will write and hide up the records in the earth; and whither I go it mattereth not.
5 Behold, my father hath made this record, and he hath written the intent thereof. And behold, I would write it also if I had room upon the plates, but I have not; and ore I have none, for I am alone. My father hath been slain in battle, and all my kinsfolk, and I have not friends nor whither to go; and how long the Lord will suffer that I may live I know not.” Mormon 8:3-5
Sam really opened my eyes to what he said about it. After quoting the scripture above Sam explained. “Moroni was specifically speaking of the plates which his father had given him. He did not migrate north to bury the plates or he would have said that he had a place to go He was already there. “I have not friends nor wither to go.”
This also indicates that the many records from which Mormon abridged the plates were left hidden in the Hill Cumorah, where he had moved them because Moroni had no one to help him relocate them…
Ether 1:1-2 says, “And now I, Moroni, proceed to give an account of those ancient inhabitants who were destroyed by the hand of the Lord upon the face of this north country. And I take mine account from the twenty and four plates which were found by the people of Limhi, which is called the Book of Ether.” Ether: 1:1-2
“Primary proof of the location of the Nephites had been right in front of us in the Book of Mormon all along.
“And I, Moroni, will not deny the Christ; wherefore, I wander whithersoever I can for the safety of mine own life.” Moroni 1:3
Webster Dictionarysays, Wander- “to move about without a fixed course, aim or goal. Moroni did not migrate northward to bury the plates. He was already living in the north area.” Sam Dunaway
Clarifying Sam’s Point
Sam wrote me again in order to clarify his point as I quote him below:
“From Moroni 1:1 to Moroni 10:2, Moroni makes it clear that he completed his abridgement and is finishing his writings, then sealing or hiding up the records which were in his possession.
Mormon 5:12 and Mormon 8:4 tell of the direction to, and hiding up of the records. Moroni knew exactly where the Lord had directed him to bury the plates. Yet he makes no mention of a need to travel to that area or place.
His father spoke of being directed to go to the hill Shim (See map below), where all the records were hidden, and in Mormon 6:6 notes the relocation of those records to Cumorah for safe keeping, except the plates which he gave to Moroni.
Surely, Moroni would have noted any travel to a distant location in conjunction with burying the plates as directed. However, in Moroni 1:3, he states he is wandering for the safety of his own life, not for the purpose of traveling to bury the records in his possession. This indicates he was in the area and being cautious until his writing was completed.
Furthermore, Moroni writes that after burying the plates, it doesn’t matter where he goes. Mormon 8:4
He was prepared. He was already living in the area of the hill, Cumorah, where he was directed to bury the plates.This is the only plausible explanation of those things which he wrote.”
In Moroni 8:2, Sam also mentioned, “Moroni was in a north Country land area.”
Is says, “And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were all destroyed.” Mormon 8:2
Sam Dunaway (Parenthesis, bold and color added)
I believe Sam makes a lot of sense to me. I appreciate his added witness to my own.
Where is the North Country?
See the map below to help determine where the North County is. In my opinion the Land of Bountiful is Northern Indiana and Ohio up to almost the Hill Cumorah.
“And the Nephites and the armies of Moronihah were driven even into the land of Bountiful; And there they did fortify against the Lamanites, from the west sea, even unto the east; it being a day’s journey for a Nephite, on the line which they had fortified and stationed their armies to defend their north country.“
Editor note: If Moroni had no ore and was alone, why would he go searching for more ore clear across the over 3,500 miles to or from Mesoamerica? He has already told us that he has stopped writing, so he was not going to find ore and why would he travel thousands of miles (Apx 3,500 Miles NY to Mexico) carrying heavy plates and trying to keep hidden amongst his enemies, that he would have met along that long distance journey. If Moroni stays near where he buried the record, and he was alone, why would he make life more dangerous by trying to hide amongst his enemy as he traveled that great distance? People far from Cumorah probably knew that the battle was ended and all were killed. Wouldn’t it be easier for Moroni to hide right there where the final battle was finished, where no one would have believed he remained alive? That land near the hill Cumorah was called Land Desolation, as no one wanted to be there as it represented death and destruction, not necessarily desolate in reference to there being no trees or animals in that land.
Written and Deposited not Far from That Place by Jonathan Neville
“He [Moroni] then proceeded and gave a general account of the promises made to the fathers, and also gave a history of the aborigenes of this country, and said they were literal descendants of Abraham. He represented them as once being an enlightened and intelligent people, possessing a correct knowledge of the gospel, and the plan of restoration and redemption. He said this history was written and deposited not far from that place,and that it was our brother’s privilege, if obedient to the commandments of the Lord, to obtain and translate the same by the means of the Urim and Thummim, which were deposited for that purpose with the record.” Excerpt from Letter IV
“There was a time when Church members still believed what Moroni first told Joseph Smith when he “gave a history of the aborigenes of this country” and said “this history was written and deposited” not far from Joseph’s home near Palmyra, New York.
For example, Lucy Mack Smith told people it was a record of the Indians.
From Lucy Mack Smith’s History, 1844-5. [p. [8], bk. 12]
“I will now return to the time when the Elders set out for Missouri the reader will recollect that Hyrum Smith my oldest son was directed to go by the way of Detroit. I thought this would be a good opportunity for me to visit the family of my My Brother Stephen Mack Who had been dead some 4 or 5 years this being 1831 and my brother died in 1826— Hyrum was very anxious to have me accompany him And as my niece was about returning home I this was another inducement for me to undertake the journey I accordingly set off in the month of June our company consisted Hyram Smith Brother Moredock [John Murdock] Lyman Wight Brother Corril [John Corrill] Almira Mack my Niece and myself—
When we went on board the boat we held a consultation to Determine whether it was best to say much concerning the gospel at first it was concluded that we should be entirely still as to religion but finally Hyrum said that Mother might say what she was disposed to and if a difficulty arose the Elders should assist her out of it
We had not been long on board when as I was setting one day at the door of the cabin very much engaged reading the Book of Mormon a lady accosted me thus. What book have you madam you seem very much engaged. The Book of Mormon I replied— The Book of Mormon said she what work is that? I then gave her a brief history of the coming forth of the work. She seemed highly delighted. I said that it was a record of the Indians. Is it possible she exclaimed why My Husband is a Missionary out now among the Indians and I am going to, how I do wish that I could get a book to carry him”
“And the Lord warned Omer in a dream that he should depart out of the land; wherefore Omer departed out of the land with his family, and traveled many days, and came over and passed by the hill of Shim, and came over by the place where the Nephites were destroyed, and from thence eastward, and came to a place which was called Ablom, by the seashore, and there he pitched his tent, and also his sons and his daughters, and all his household, save it were Jared and his family.” Ether 9:3
It is very likely that Omer traveled to the Atlantic Ocean or maybe just to the east side of Lake Ontario, which lake is large enough to be called a sea and have a seashore.
Land Bountiful
Notice below the Land Bountiful runs from Buffalo, NY and Irving, NY then south to Kill Buck and Salamanca, NY. In the green below that is the Land Southward which is at the Allegheny River and south in the Land of Lehi-Nephi, as seen in the map above.
The yellow and off-yellow areas below, are the Land Northward or the “Land North” or the “North Country.” notice the amazing possible location of the 1-day for a Nephite and 1-day and a half for a Nephite to cross from the Land Bountiful to the Land Southward or the Land of the original inheritance, which would be south of the Allegheny River.
Where is the “land northward” as spoken in Omni 1:22? Here is more fantastic information even though you may be overloaded by now. I give you as much as I can to aid you in your personal research.
“It also spake a few words concerning his fathers. And his first parents came out from the tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people; and the severity of the Lord fell upon them according to his judgments, which are just; and their bones lay scattered in the land northward.” Omni 1:22
So again the writings of a Nephite Prophet (Omni) combine with Mormon’s abridgement to bring together the Jaredite record and a “land northward” near Ramah/Cumorah.
Route of Coriantumr?
My great friend and “professor of the heartland” in my opinion, Wayne May feels it is likely that the Mulekites would have picked up Coriantumr who was injured near Cumorah, on their journey west at the St Lawrence Seaway and through the Great Lakes.
It is possible that Coriantumr could have walked injured or after healing a bit, from Cumorah to Lake Ontario 30 miles north (See Map Below) to meet the Mulekites. The Mulekites could have found Coriantumr on that huge Lake Ontario somewhere I guess. But, this is not that likely in my opinion. The Book of Mormon says nothing about Coriantumr riding in a ship with the Mulekites as he goes with them to Zarahemla. It says, “And Coriantumr was discovered by the people of Zarahemla; and he dwelt with them for the space of nine moons.” Omni 1:21
As you see in the map below, you can read Option One in a Yellow Box and Option 2 in the Green Box and decide on your own. Either way Coriantumr could have healed and traveled either direction for the Mulekites to pick him up. Also don’t forget the record of the Jaredites was originally written by the Prophet Ether and even though we don’t hear in the Book of Mormon about his whereabouts, I believe Ether helped Coriantumr heal and get into a canoe to travel directly down the Genesee River to the Allegheny River which continues as the Ohio River, right to the Land of Zarahemla in Illinois or Indiana, which is the heart of the Heartland.
(I believe Coriantumr once able to physically move after his wounds, would naturally head toward a close river like the Genesee or the Ganargua and get in a canoe to finish healing up, as he traveled toward where the Mulekites were, not to a body of water where the Mulekites could have picked him up.) Ganargua River was later used to assist in the Erie Canal construction. These rivers are near Palmyra and Rochester. From the Genesee River, Coriantumr could have connected to the Allegheny and Ohio Rivers and was picked up somewhere in the Land Zarahemla Ohio or Mississippi River, which would be bordering Indiana and Illinois, where the Mulekites would have lived since the day they landed. As it says the Mulekites, “were brought by the hand of the Lord across the great waters, into the land where Mosiah discovered them; and they had dwelt there from that time forth.” Omni 1:16.
It would be easy to spot a man in a boat from a river and not amongst the huge Lake Ontario. As my friend Wayne says, We report, you decide. I would love your feedback either way.
Did Ether Remain with Coriantumr?
I don’t think Ether stayed to help or see if Coriantumr lived or died, based on the scriptures below. In that case for Coriantumr to travel to Lake Ontario (Option One above) and be found or to the Genesee River (Option Two above) to travel to be found, Ether was probably not with him.
Remember the Lord said, “And Coriantumr was discovered by the people of Zarahemla; and he dwelt with them for the space of nine moons.” Omni 1:21 That means Ether was not with Coriantumr and either died or was translated, because we hear in the scriptures that Coriantumr would be the last of the Jaredites. (Just the Brother of Jared descendants were utterly destroyed, as they were the ones who made the covenant with the Lord). I believe many other descendants of the Jaredites still remained in all of North and South America who had not made a covenant with the Lord).
“And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he finished his record; (and the hundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.
Now the last words which are written by Ether are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am saved in the kingdom of God. Amen.” Ether 15:33-34
“And after being many days in the wilderness they arrived in the land of Zarahemla, and joined Mosiah’s people, and became his subjects.
And it came to pass that Mosiah received them with joy; and he also received their records, and also the records which had been found by the people of Limhi.” Mosiah 22:13-14
“These Stones, Fastened to a Breastplate” by Anne Marie Oborn Purchase here.
In conclusion, (finally), you can now see the amazing connection of the Jaredite record and the Large Plates of Nephi. They truly witness of each other as we know that Mormon was so inspired to hide away both records to be translated by Joseph Smith. Remember the other extraordinary connection between the Jaredites, Nephites and Joseph Smith was, that the Lord touched 16 stones for the Brother of Jared, and another two He touched to be sealed with the Gold Plates that Moroni sealed up at hill Cumorah so Joseph could use these two stones and the breastplate to translate. Joseph did not use a stone in a hat to translate. See Ether 3:23-24 and Ether 4:5. Amazing isn’t it? Scriptures that witness to the proper translation here: JSH 1:35,52,62,75*; Mosiah 28:13, 20; Ether 3:22-23; 4:5; Alma 37:21, 24-25. Over 100 pages of detail in the book above.
Receive Personal Revelation
“Joseph Smith, Jr. said, every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness.” – Prophet Brigham Young, “History of Brigham Young,” Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star, v. 26, February 20, 1864
“The power of seership is one of the greatest gifts ever given to man; and the time is not far distant when every man who bears the Priesthood will be a seer. But it can only be when men have proved themselves able to withstand all of the false deceptions of the devil. (Brigham Young, Des. News, June 18, 1871, p. 308) (See Revelation 2:17 and D&C 130:11)
I don’t expect a seer stone in this life, but one day perhaps. As the Lord wants us all to find truth with His guidance. I have found many truths about the geography of the Book of Mormon and the proper translation, which the church has not spoken about or may never speak about. That doesn’t mean I can’t know, or I shouldn’t try to find, “all the truth I can.”
“It’s My Truth”
We each believe based on our own bias, study and research. We also learn from personal revelation or until we understand more from God or the Spirit. I will understand certain things as my definition of truth different from you, and it isn’t a matter of who is correct, but who’s personal feelings are correct for them, at the time of their ability to receive and understand. I don’t believe in todays fad saying of, “It’s my own truth.” My own truth could mean its true to me, but not revealed truth from God. Revealed truth from the Lord is true, no matter what anyone thinks is “their truth.”
You can’t push your feelings about truth on others, as it is personal to you. We each must learn revealed truth by the Spirit. I agree truth is only one way, meaning truth is truth and only God and Christ know all truth. We cant change truth, just understand it more and more. We have different ways of receiving and understanding it completely, or in bits and pieces. That’s why we are taught line upon line until more knowledge or possibly perfect knowledge is achieved in a certain thing.
The following story titled below as “The Hole in Cumorah“, is shared as some first hand and second hand information. I am confident I have described things fairly accurate. I have however contacted my video friend who is the one who took the pictures in this article and he thinks this story as I present is accurate to his recollection.
Remember there are two different locations of importance in the Hill Cumorah. Of course there was the place of the “Stone Box” where Joseph Smith received the set of plates from Moroni. In that stone box was contained the Original Gold Plates including the sealed portion, the large breastplate and the Urim and Thummim, The Sword of Laban and Liahona were not in this “Stone Box”. (See picture below)
There was also a “Cave of Records” separate from the stone box, which many brethren including Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Wilford Woodruff, Brigham Young and others spoke of. (See two quotes below).
“Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room.
Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: “This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.” I tell you this as coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it just as well as we understand coming to this meeting. . . . [Don] Carlos Smith was a young man of as much veracity as any young man we had, and he was a witness to these things. Samuel Smith saw some things, Hyrum saw a good many things, but Joseph was the leader.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 17 June 1877
“The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ.
When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)
The Hole in Cumorah
About 10 years ago a friend of mine who worked in the Church Video department was on assignment at the Hill Cumorah for a project the Church was working on.
The west side of Hill Cumorah was being prepared for setting up the stage for the Hill Cumorah Pageant. A missionary couple had some guests on a tour showing them around this west facing hill Cumorah. After a time one of the families on tour noticed one of their children was missing from the group. A search for this young man began. After searching for a time the missionary couple and their guest family heard a yell for help several times. They came upon the missing young man who had fallen through an opening in the top west side of the Hill Cumorah. [See Approximate location of that hole at the red arrow above]
The hole seemed to be 12-15 feet deep. Someone ran to their car and brought back some jumper cables as a rope, to assist in bringing the young man up out of the hole below, which is my video friends actual picture he took of the hole after the young man was pulled out.
An Actual Picture at Hill Cumorah about 2009. Shows a possible man made cavern in the drumlin
My friend put his camera with its light down the hole and snapped a few pictures. He was very surprised to see the appearance of a cave that was about 15 feet square. The cave was empty (Explained below). On the sides of the walls were stacked stones and there were some stones attached seemingly as shelves coming out from the stacked stones, which would mean the cave would have been man made.
What most people know about the hill Cumorah is that it is classified as a drumlin. “A drumlin, from the Irish word droimnín (“littlest ridge”), first recorded in 1833, and in the classical sense is an elongated hill in the shape of an inverted spoon or half-buried egg formed by glacial ice acting on underlying unconsolidated till or ground moraine.” Source: Wikipedia.
Drumlins are created by a glacial drift with moving dirt and debris and won’t leave spaces for caves as other hills and mountains would. This is one of the reasons those of the Mesoamerican belief don’t think a cave would exist in a drumlin. But this pictures shows a possibility for a man made cave to be created in a drumlin.
After discovering this cave, the Church had a contractor notified about fixing the hole. They came out to the location and put a large thick piece of steel over the hole, (see photo above) and then covered it with dirt. I have some friends who have since been back with detectors and can easily locate the location of where the piece of steel was buried.
The cave was empty (Explained Here)
Mormon 1:3 “Therefore, when ye are about twenty and four years old I would that ye should remember the things that ye have observed concerning this people; and when ye are of that age go to the land Antum, unto a hill which shall be called Shim; and there have I deposited unto the Lord all the sacred engravings concerning this people.
4 And behold, ye shall take the plates of Nephi unto yourself, and the remainder shall ye leave in the place where they are; and ye shall engrave on the plates of Nephi all the things that ye have observed concerning this people.”
Mormon would return to the hill Shim in about 375 AD. So, all the records of the Nephites were in hill Shim at that time.
Two probable routes of Mormon’s travel to hill Shim. About A.D. 363–75.
As you read in Mormon 4:23, “And now I, Mormon, seeing that the Lamanites were about to overthrow the land, therefore I did go to the hill Shim, and did take up all the records which Ammaron had hid up unto the Lord.” This would mean the plates from Shim were hid up in a place probably close to Hill Cumorah.
In one of Jonathan Neville’s blogs Here he speaks about how the Cave of all the Plates including the Sword of Laban and Liahona were taken from the Cave at Cumorah and probably taken back to the Hill Shim to hide them from people today. David Whitmer also explains that possibility below.
Wagonloads of plates in Cumorah’s cave?
The following was originally printed in the March-April 2010 edition of Mormonism Researched.
“David Whitmer’s testimony is a rare exception because he was one of the men who is said to have actually entered such a cave. His testimony slightly conflicts with Young’s for he stated in an 1878 interview printed in the Deseret Evening News, that Smith’s gold plates were indeed hidden, but not in a cave in the Hill Cumorah. Instead, he said they were hidden, “not far away from that place.”
8. Edward Stevenson, Reminiscences of Joseph, the Prophet, 1877 In his book Reminiscences of Joseph, the Prophet, and the Coming Forth of the Book of Mormon, Edward Stevenson relates an interview with David Whitmer in 1877:
It was likewise stated to me by David Whitmer in the year 1877 that Oliver Cowdery told him that the Prophet Joseph and himself had seen this room and that it was filled with treasure, and on a table therein were the breastplate and the sword of Laban, as well as the portion of gold plates not yet translated, and that these plates were bound by three small gold rings, and would also be translated, as was the first portion in the days of Joseph. When they are translated much useful information will be brought to light. But till that day arrives, no Rochester adventurers shall ever see them or the treasures,
although science.”
9. David Whitmer, Deseret Evening News, 16 August 1878 In an interview with P. Wilhelm Poulson, David Whitmer gave another account of the cave:
[Poulson]: Where are the plates now?
[Whitmer]: In a cave, where the angel has hidden them up till the time arrives when the plates, which are sealed, shall be translated. God will yet raise up a mighty one, who shall do his work till it is finished and Jesus comes again.
[Poulson]: Where is that cave?
[Whitmer]: In the State of New York. [Poulson]: In the Hill of Comorah? [Whitmer]: No, but not far away from that place.
8 and 9 above from JOURNAL OF BOOK OF MORMON STUDIES 7-31-2004 Cumorah’s Cave by Cameron J. Packer Volume 13 Number 1 Article 6 Page 55
Art by Jon McNaughton
Hill Cumorah and Hill Shim
Oliver Cowdery spoke of the valley (in yellow), as the final battle location of the Nephites and Lamanites. The battle was not necessarily “on” Cumorah, but, round about the hill.
In these two quotes, I feel it very likely the hill Shim was very close to the Hill Cumorah as that would make it feasible to move the plates from one location to the other. Below is my proposed location for hill Shim.
This area locating Shim is speculation, based on a few personal friends that have discovered some interesting artifacts in that location in the past few years. A very large and flat topped rock in that area, that seems to be a possible location of a grave or an entrance. It is on private land as my friends couldn’t get much access. Again I speculate but is seems like a possibility according to the location and how Oliver described the 1-mile valley below:
“At about one mile west rises another ridge of less height, running parallel with the former, leaving a beautiful vale between. The soil is of the first quality for the country, and under a state of cultivation, which gives a prospect at once imposing, when one reflects on the fact, that here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed. By turning to the 529th and 530th pages of the Book of Mormon, you will read Mormon’s account of the last great struggle of his people, as they were encamped round this hill Cumorah. In this valley fell the remaining strength and pride of a once powerful people, the Nephites—once so highly favored of the Lord, but at that time in darkness, doomed to suffer extermination by the hand of their barbarous and uncivilized brethren. From the top of this hill, Mormon, with a few others, after the battle, gazed with horror upon the mangled remains of those who, the day before, were filled with anxiety, hope, or doubt.” Oliver Cowdery’s Letter VII Joseph Smith Papers “Letter VII,” LDS Messenger and Advocate, July 1835, 1:155–159 .
In the DVD, you will also have the following questions answered.
Where is the Hill Cumorah of the Book of Mormon?
Is there more than one Hill Cumorah?
What have prophets and apostles proclaimed?
What archaeological evidence should we expect?
Has any archaeological evidence been found?
Plates 
Ancient Work near Canandaigua.
ONE and a half miles west of Geneva are the traces of the old Indian ” Castle ” of Ganundesdga, built by the Senecas, and destroyed by Sullivan in 1779. Near it is a mound thickly covered over with graves. A plan and description of this work will be given in another connection. About two miles beyond, in the same direction, in Seneca township, is another work of more ancient date, a plan of which is here presented. It is situated upon elevated grounds, and coincides generally with those already described. The position, upon the east side, is protected by a steep, natural bank, perhaps sixty feet in height, which subsides into low, marshy grounds. At the foot of the bank is a copious and perennial spring. Upon the west, south, and north, the ground falls off gently ; and here we find the artificial defences. Although the whole has been for some time under cultivation, the lines of entrenchment may be followed throughout nearly their entire extent, without difficulty. The usual evidences of ancient occupancy are found within the area.
This chapter examines the narrative of 1 Nephi 1−5 as a series of events occurring at the Passover season, beginning with Lehi’s theophany (vision of God) at the start of the Passover month of Nisan and culminating with Nephi’s slaying of Laban on the final day of the Jewish Passover celebration.
In a recent presentation, I summarized it this way, leading to my own conclusions. (click to enlarge) 
Words that aren’t defined as the named instruments above:
Lucy Mack Smith
Mosiah Interprets the Jaredite Stone by 
Purchase Now
Buy Now
Handsome Lake
Mr. Schoolcraft states, on the authority of Le Fort, late chief of the Onondagas, that Ondiaka, the great chronicler of his tribe, informed him, on his last journey to Oneida, that in ancient times, before they had fixed their settlements at Onondaga, and before the Five Nations were confederated, 
In the prosecution of his labors in pruning, he was surprised that in the center of each and every tree was a collection of small brush, about the size of a bushel basket. Wondering at the singularity of such a circumstance, he inquired of his Indian friend and host the cause, who explained after the following manner: He said, that after the war of the Revolution, the Indian settlement at that place was abandoned, in consequence of the destruction of the corn fields, and a part of the great orchard, by Col. Van SCHAICK, in 1779; that the Onondagas had become completely discouraged, in consequence of the severe losses they had sustained during the war; consequently the Indians, since the war, had not occupied or cultivated any of their lands in that quarter, and the brush he had found collected in the apple-trees, was the work of bears, who ascended the trees in autumn, gathering in the slender branches loaded with apples, with their paws leisurely devouring the fruit, at the same time depositing the branches under them, between the larger diverging limbs, for a more comfortable seat. Sometime after Mr. WILCOX had settled in his new place of abode, his harvests had been abundant, and his stacks of hay and wheat numerous; (for as yet, he had no barns,) every thing seemed to prosper in his hands, but lo, in a single night his cherished hopes were blasted, for some ruthless hand had lighted the torch, and applied it with complete fatality to the gathered treasures of the year. He awoke in the morning only to behold the desolation, and the smoking ruins of his labors, his sustenance and wealth. 
In many places within this fort and 
Prophets, Apostles and Leaders speak of “One Hill Cumorah” in many of the quotes below. Are you with the Prophets or Scholars? Many of you reading this blog would probably find it hard to believe that many scholars, seminary and institute teachers, and church employees believe there are two Hill Cumorah’s, one in upstate New York and one in Mesoamerica somewhere. I used to think that as well 12 years ago, but to me there are so many leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that say the Hill in New York is the place that Joseph Smith received the plates and it is also the same hill in New York where the final battles of the Nephites vs Lamanites, and the final battle of the Jaredites (Hill Ramah) occured. (Ether 15:11 “And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.”) I believe the Hill Cumorah and the Hill Ramah are the very same hill in upstate New York, and there is not a second hill in Mesoamerica.
11.
27.
In the early 1900’s the Church and many others believed the entire South America was the land South and where the Lamanites lived, and the entire North America was North and where the Nephites lived, and the narrow Isthmus of Tehuantepec or Panama, between the two Continents was the narrow neck of land. This was called the “Hemispheric Theory” [HM] of the Book of Mormon, which the Mesoamerican Theory people, and the Heartland Theory people, don’t believe any more. Both groups believe in the Hinterland Model of LM. [As shown in the map left. Most all under stand the events of the Book of Mormon could not be held in that large of an area as the entire Western Continent. Both sides agree that Lehi traveled from Jerusalem paralleling the Red Sea and then heading east at Nahom to Oman near Khar Kharfoot, where the first Land Bountiful was. The M2Cer, believes that Lehi traveled east by boat toward India and around the Pacific Ocean to land near Guatemala and spreading out in a Limited area surrounding Mexico near Guatemala. Heartlanders believe Lehi traveled SW from Oman sailing around Africa and landed in the Gulf of Mexico near Tallahassee Florida [Both called Limited Models LM, or Hinterland Hypothesis].
DNA- We (Heartlanders) believe there is Hebrew DNA in many Native American Indians near the Great Lakes of the Algonquian and Iroquois tribes. Only Asian DNA has been found amongst the people of South, Central and Western America, such as amongst other Western Native Americans of the United States and Alaska. We believe most of those living in the South Pacific Islands are of Israelite blood, (Hagoth or Mixture of Joseph and Judah) We haven’t found Hebrew DNA markers for those in South and Central America. We have found DNA evidence of Natiive Americans in the Great Lakes area with Hebrew Haplogroup X, that is also found in the Jerusalem area. M2C believe the Asian DNA found in Central America is because the Asian population over took any Hebrew DNA that may have existed during the time of Lehi.
Our Prophet, President Russell M. Nelson said, “You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.
This information filled our hearts with unspeakable joy, for we knew that the Book of Mormon and this gospel had been brought to light more for the remnants of Jacob upon this continent than for the Gentiles.
I believe the Hopewell culture matches up with the Nephite culture extraordinarily well. The Hopewell originated about 550 BC at the panhandle of Florida from Crystal River to Tallahassee, Florida. History documents this. The Hopewell then traveled north into Georgia and Tennessee. There is evidence of a huge society of the Hopewell from Missouri to Illinois to Indiana and then to Ohio which was the dominant historical area of this people. History shows the end of the Hopewell civilization around the year 400 AD. Historians say the Hopewell just disappeared and historians have no idea what happened. I feel I have a good idea. The final battle at Hill Cumorah was 385 AD. This is some great evidence of a possible link to the Hopewell and the Nephites.
“I believe we may confidently pronounce that all the hypotheses which attribute those works to Europeans are incorrect and fanciful—first, on account of the present number of the works; secondly, on account of their antiquity; having from every appearance, been erected a long time before the discovery of America; and finally, their form and manner are totally variant from European fortifications, either in ancient or modern times.
The period when this second burial took place occurred at different intervals amongst the different tribes, but was universally denominated the “Festival of the Dead.” Bartram, speaking of the burial customs of the Floridian Indians, says: “After the bone-house is full, a general solemn funeral takes place. The nearest kindred and friends of the deceased, on a day appointed, repair to the bone-house, take up the respective coffins, and, following one another in the order of seniority, the nearest relations and connections attending their respective corpses, and the multitude succeeding them, singing and lamenting alternately, slowly proceed to the place of general interment, when they place the coffins in order forming a pyramid. Lastly, they cover all over with earth, which raises a conical hill or mount. They then return to town in order of solemn procession, concluding the day with a festival which is called the ‘Feast of the Dead?’ The author here quoted adds in a note, that it was the opinion of some ingenious men with whom he had conversed, “that all those artificial pyramidal hills, usually called 
The large cemeteries which have been discovered in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and Ohio, seem to have resulted from a similar practice. In these the skeletons were generally packed in rude coffins composed of flat stones, placed in ranges of great extent. The circumstance that many of these coffins were not more than two or three feet in length, gave rise to the notion of the former existence here of a pigmy race. The discovery of iron and some articles of European origin in one of these cemeteries in the vicinity of Augusta, Kentucky, shows that this mode of burial existed at a late period among the Indians in that direction. 
Quotes Below
Osco Indian Mound Auburn, NY
Fig. 4. Copper 
Alvin Smith’s grave is located in the Swift Cemetery just north of Four Corners one block from main street in Palmyra. It is said to be on an ancient Indian Mound.
Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835 
In the DVD titled “