Translation Method, “not intended to tell the world“
The matter of how the Book of Mormon was translated has been of considerable interest and discussion virtually from the time the book became public. This is illustrated in an exchange that took place between the Prophet and his brother Hyrum in a conference of the Church held 25 October On that occasion Hyrum said “that he thought best that the information of the coming forth of the book of Mormon be related by Joseph himself to the Elders present that all might know for themselves.” In response, Joseph Smith said that “it was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon, & also said that it was not expedient for him to relate these things &c” (Cannon and Cook, Far West Record, 23).
This blog is dedicated to Len and Kathryn Matthews who are some wonderful people
Inquire for Yourself of Truth
“Suppose a leader of the Church were to tell you that you were supporting the wrong side of a particular issue. Some might immediately resist this leader and his counsel or ignore it, but I would suggest that you first apply the fourth great civic standard for the faithful Saints. That standard is to live for, to get, and then to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
Said Brigham Young: “I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. … Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.” (JD, vol. 9, p. 150.)” Elder Ezra Taft Benson of the Council of the Twelve. Civic Standards for the Faithful Saints. Ensign, July 1972, 59.
Why are they called Interpreters and where did they come from?
The Interpreters are holy and came from God. How do we know this? Where did the Interpreters come from and why is it so important that the Prophet Joseph Smith used them to translate the plates? Remember one of the greatest stories about faith is when the Brother of Jared (Mahonri Moriancumer) saw the finger of the Lord and could not be kept outside of the veil. Jesus Christ showed himself unto Mahonri and told him to write the doings of his people and also the Lord touched two additional stones for Mahonri to seal up until after Christ would appear in the flesh. These two stones were also given to Mosiah with the same promise of being kept secret. Then these two stones were given back to Moroni who finally sealed up these Interpreters with the plates for the last time before Joseph Smith received them.
With this spiritual background of the Interpreters it is essential to understand the significance of Joseph using these “two stones” to translate the plates. In Ether we read, “And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write. For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.” Ether 3:23-24.
It was “these two stones”, not A seer stone, not A stone, not A stone found in a well, but “these TWO stones” that were sealed up to come forth to Joseph the Prophet to translate the plates. Remember the translation was done “by the Gift and Power of God”, not by any other means. Not with one stone for convenience, or because I left the Interpreters home, or I just can’t carry two stones, so I will only use one; these things did not matter because the Prophet was to do the translation “by the Gift and Power of God” only! Joseph’s single stone he found in a well was not THAT spiritual method that the Lord planned from the beginning. Man’s way is not the Lord’s way. Joseph Smith the Prophet of the Lord translated the records of the Nephites and Jaredites with the spiritual means the Lord intended with the Interpreters (two stones and a breastplate) that were provided inside that most sacred stone box on Cumorah’s hill. Joseph said, “there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34–35) The Urim and Thummim is the tool those in the Old Testament called it, and many of the saints in Joseph’s day spoke of, but the separate Urim and Thummim in the book of Mormon was only called “Interpreters” in the entire Book of Mormon. Hence the Urim and Thummim Old Testament) and the Interpreters (Ancient North America) are separate instruments, called by two various names for translation. Now where in the Book of Mormon do we hear about a single stone, or a stone I found somewhere. To equate the two is not “by the Gift and Power of God.
What lead up to the discussion between whether the Urim and Thummim or the Seer Stone were used for translation?
SITH below refers to “Stone in the Hat Theory” – M2C refers to the “Two Hill Cumorah’s theory.“
“For over 150 years, LDS Church leaders taught that Joseph Smith translated the Nephite plates with the Urim and Thummim. From the early 1830s, critics said that Joseph produced the Book of Mormon by either (i) reading words off a seer stone he put in a hat or (ii) reading a manuscript written by Solomon Spalding and edited by Sidney Rigdon.
All three alternatives were set out in the 1834 book Mormonism Unvailed (Left). When that book was released in October 1834, Oliver Cowdery responded by declaring unambiguously that Joseph translated the record with the Urim and Thummim. You can see Oliver’s declaration in the Pearl of Great Price, at the end of Joseph Smith-History, or in the Joseph Smith papers here:
You might think that Oliver’s declaration, which Joseph Smith helped write and specifically endorsed multiple times, would end the debate.
But no.
A few decades ago, some LDS historians decided it was time to deal with “all the evidence.” They started what has been called the “New Mormon History” to bring out some of the evidence that differed from, and contradicted, the traditional Church history narratives.
Among these was SITH.
Historians largely rejected the Spalding theory, so they focused on SITH vs U&T.
(Sending the Spalding theory into oblivion is one reason why everyone has overlooked the key role it played, as I’ve discussed before.)
Rough Stone Rolling was a key part of the New Mormon History’s focus on SITH, but lots of people contributed. The historians in the Church History department largely embraced the New Mormon History (as well as M2C), and the result is the presentation of SITH in the Ensign (which I discussed here), the lesson manuals, the videos, etc.
Several justifications have been proposed.
Some have claimed that when Joseph and Oliver said or wrote “Urim and Thummim” they really meant the peep stone Joseph found in a well. That obviously contradicts both what they said and the historical record. Others claim Joseph used both, but that also contradicts both what Joseph and Oliver always said. Some say the “SITH sayers” were all liars who hated Joseph Smith, but that also contradicts the historical record. Besides, people on the other side just say Joseph and Oliver were liars. Stalemate.
In a recent presentation, I summarized it this way, leading to my own conclusions. (click to enlarge)
As I mentioned at the outset, a longer version of this is available here: https://www.bookofmormoncentralamerica.com/p/video-summary-of-sith-and-new-mormon.html The full presentation is also available. Email me at [email protected] if you want a link.” Jonathan Neville and Joseph Smith Papers
Now we will hear from the only First Hand Witnesses
5 Names of the same Instrument used to Translate the Book of Mormon
1- Interpreters (Word found in the Book of Mormon, PGP)
2- Urim and Thummim (Word found in the D&C, PGP, and the Old Testament, 4 times in THE TESTIMONY OF THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH in the preface of the BofM)
3- Directors (Alma37:21,24 “Interpreters” was changed to “Directors” in 1920 version of the BofM)
3- The Key
4- Two stones in silver bows, fastened to a breastplate
5- Two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow (Words found similar in many places)
Words that aren’t defined as the named instruments above:
1- Peep Stone
2- Seer Stone
3- Seer Stones
4- Seer’s Stone
5- Stone in the hat
6- Stone
7+ First hand witnesses who saw this Instrument.
1- Christ
2- Brother of Jared
3- Moroni
4- King Benjamin, Mosiah, Alma, Helaman and each following generational leader
5- Joseph Smith
6- Oliver Cowdrey
7- Lucy Mack Smith (Saw, felt, and described the breastplate and spectacles through a thin linen. Painting below)
8- William Smith?
Everyone else not listed above is a second or third hand witness to seeing THIS Instrument, including Emma Smith, Martin Harris, David Whitmer, etc. Some helped translate but Joseph was commanded to not show the plates and the Interpreters to anyone unless advised or his death was imminent.Christ
Now behold, I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim, into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them. And you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened. Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun.” D&C 10:1-3
“Behold, I say unto you, that you must rely upon my word, which if you do with full purpose of heart, you shall have a view of the plates, and also of the breastplate, the sword of Laban, the Urim and Thummim, which were given to the brother of Jared upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face, and the miraculous directors which were given to Lehi while in the wilderness, on the borders of the Red Sea.” D&C 17:1 Now here is the witness by the Lord of Joseph’s translation. “And he has translated the book, even that part which I have commanded him, and as your Lord and your God liveth it is true.” (D&C 17:6)
Brother of Jared
Do you realize the 16 stones touched by Christ for the Brother of Jared were for the 8 barges, but the Lord also touched two separate stones to be sealed up for the Prophet Joseph Joseph Smith later for translation?
1 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared, (now the number of the vessels which had been prepared was eight) went forth unto the mount, which they called the mount Shelem, because of its exceeding height, and did molten out of a rock sixteen small stones; and they were white and clear, even as transparent glass; and he did carry them in his hands upon the top of the mount, and cried again unto the Lord, saying: Ether 3:1
6 And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. [16 stones] And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood; and the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was with fear. Ether 3:6 parenthesis and color added.
13 And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said: Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall; therefore ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you.
17 And now, as I, Moroni, said I could not make a full account of these things which are written, therefore it sufficeth me to say that Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites. Ether 3:13,17
20 Wherefore, having this perfect knowledge of God, he could not be kept from within the veil; therefore he saw Jesus; and he did minister unto him.
21 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt not suffer these things which ye have seen and heard to go forth unto the world, until the time cometh that I shall glorify my name in the flesh; wherefore, ye shall treasure up the things which ye have seen and heard, and show it to no man.
22 And behold, when ye shall come unto me, ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read.
23 And behold, these two stones [different than the previous 16 stones] will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write.
24 For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones [2stones] shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write. Ether 3:20-23 parenthesis added
Moroni
4 Behold, I [Moroni] have written upon these plates the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.
5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord. Ether 4:4-5 parenthesis added
Joseph Smith
“34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34–35)
“With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called “Urim and Thummim,” which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breast plate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God” (History of the Church, 4:537).
Joseph Smith Again
“He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book. …
Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed. While he was conversing with me about the plates, the vision was opened to my mind that I could see the place where the plates were deposited, and that so clearly and distinctly that I knew the place again when I visited it. Joseph Smith—History in the Pearl of Great Price or History of the Church, 1:2–79.
Oliver Cowdery
A View of the Contents of the Stone Box
“The manner in which the plates were deposited: First, a hole of sufficient depth, (how deep I know not) was dug. At the bottom of this was laid a stone of suitable size, the upper surface being smooth. At each edge was placed a large quantity of cement, and into this cement, at the four edges of this stone, were placed, erect, four others, their bottom edges resting in the cement at the outer edges of the first stone. The four last named, when placed erect, formed a box, the corners, or where the edges of the four came in contact, were also cemented so firmly that the moisture from without was prevented from entering. It is to be observed, also, that the inner surface of the four erect, or side stones was smoothe. This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph… I must not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillars were not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstances you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.” Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835
Joseph Smith said, “The box in which they lay was formed by laying stones together in some kind of cement. In the bottom of the box were laid two stones crossways of the box, and on these stones lay the plates and the other things with them” (Joseph Smith—History 1:52). This is why I show the picture above with two stones crossways as I feel joseph Smith is the most accurate of the witnesses. Lucy Mack Smith says 3 stone pillars here: and See my blog here about 4, 3, or two stones
Oliver Cowdery Canonized Scripture
Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’ JSH 1:75*
The most factual statement we have is the scripture above. You can’t find any scripture that explains using a seer stone anywhere.
Oliver Cowdery’s Return
“This testimony written while Oliver Cowdery was out of the Church is now in my keeping. It is a letter in his own handwriting. In October, 1848, he made his way from Tiffin, Ohio, his residence, to Kanesville, Iowa, to take up again his association with the Latter-day Saints. At a conference held there, October 21st, 1848, presided over by elder Orson Hyde, Oliver Cowdery asked for the privilege of speaking, and he said:
Friends and Brethren: My name is Cowdery, Oliver Cowdery. In the early history of this Church, I stood identified with her, and one in her councils. True it is that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; not because I was better than the rest of mankind was I called, to fulfill the purposes of God. He called me to a high and holy calling. I wrote with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, “holy interpreters.” I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the “holy interpreters.” The book is true. Sidney Rigdon did not write it; Mr. Spaulding did not write it; I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet. It contains the everlasting gospel, and came forth to the children of men in fulfillment of the revelations of John, where he says he saw an angel come with the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. It contains principles of salvation; and if you, my hearers, will walk by its light and obey its precepts, you will be saved with an everlasting salvation in the kingdom of God on high. Brother Hyde has just said that it is very important that we keep and walk in the true channel, in order to avoid the sand-bars. The Holy Priesthood is here. I was present with Joseph when an holy angel from God came down from heaven and conferred on us, or restored, the Lesser or Aaronic Priesthood, and said to us at the same time, that it should remain upon the earth while the earth stands. I was also present with Joseph when the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood was conferred by holy angels from on high. This Priesthood we then conferred on each other, by the will and commandment of God. This Priesthood, as was then declared, is also to remain upon the earth until the last remnant of time. This holy Priesthood or authority, we then conferred upon many, and it is just as good and valid as though God had done it in person. I laid my hands upon that man, yes, I laid my right hand upon his head (pointing to Elder Hyde) and he holds that Priesthood now. He was also called through me, by the prayer of faith, an apostle of Jesus Christ.
One month later in November, 1848, at another meeting Oliver Cowdery said:
Brethren, for a number of years I have been separated from you. I now desire to come back. I wish to come humbly and to be one in your midst. I seek no station. I only wish to be identified with you. I am out of the Church. I am not a member of the Church, but I wish to become a member of it. I wish to come in at the door. I know the door. I have not come here to seek precedence. I come humbly and throw myself upon the decisions of this body, knowing, as I do, that its decisions are right, and should be obeyed.
His request was granted and he was baptized and again was received in full fellowship in the Church, and in this fellowship, he continued to witness to the day of his death.” Restoration of All Things by Joseph Fielding Smith CHAPTER TWELVE, A TESTIMONY AGAINST THE WORLD Address delivered Sunday, August 20, 1944
Oliver Under Oath
The principal scribe, Oliver Cowdery, testified under oath in 1831 that Joseph Smith “found with the plates, from which he translated his book, two transparent stones, resembling glass, set in silver bows. That by looking through these, he was able to read in English, the reformed Egyptian characters, which were engraved on the plates.” In the fall of 1830, Cowdery visited Union Village, Ohio, and spoke about the translation of the Book of Mormon. Soon thereafter, a village resident reported that the translation was accomplished by means of “two transparent stones in the form of spectacles thro which the translator looked on the engraving.” Gospel Topic Essays.
William Smith
With these quotes below, I am assuming William Smith saw the Urim and Thummim and maybe even the translation process. He gives an amazing description of the entire process. I am also intrigued by William being quoted as saying, “[Joseph] always used it in connection with the breastplate when receiving official communications, and usually so when translating as it permitted him to have both hands free to hold the plates.”
William Smith’s description: “A silver bow ran over one stone, under the other, around [sic] over that one and under the first in the shape of a horizontal figure 8…[T]hey were much too large for Joseph and he could only see through one at a time using sometimes one and sometimes the other.” These stones, he continued, “were attached to the breastplate by a rod which was fastened at the outer shoulde[r] edge of the breastplate and to the edge of the silver bow.” (Tyrell Givens, By the Hand of Mormon, p.22)
Another account from William Smith: “Among other things we inquired minutely about the Urim and Thummim and the breastplate. We asked him what was meant by the expression “two rims of a bow,” which held the former. He said a double silver bow was twisted into the shape of the figure eight, and the two stones were placed literally between the two rims of a bow. At one end was attached a rod which was connected with the outer edge of the right shoulder of the breast-plate. By pressing the head a little forward, the rod held the Urim and Thummim before the eyes much like a pair of spectacles. A pocket was prepared in the breastplate on the left side, immediately over the heart. When not in use the Urim and Thummim was placed in this pocket, the rod being of just the right length to allow it to be so deposited. This instrument could, however, be detached from the breastplate and his brother said Joseph often wore it detached when away from home, but always used it in connection with the breastplate when receiving official communications, and usually so when translating as it permitted him to have both hands free to hold the plates.” (J. W. Peterson in The Rod of Iron I:3 (February 1924), 6—7.)
The earliest mention of the translation
“The earliest mention of the translation that we have is from August 11, 1829, just six weeks after the translation was completed. The Palmyra Freeman published an article that said this: By placing the spectacles in a hat, and looking into it, Smith could (he said so, at least,) interpret the characters.
This article was promptly republished in several newspapers, including the Painesville Telegraph on September 22, 1829. Another article published in Rochester on September 5, 1829, directly attributes the account to Martin Harris. “A man by the name of Martin Harris was in this village a few days since endeavoring to make a contract for printing a large quantity of a work called the Golden Bible. He gave something like the following account of it…. By placing the spectacles in a hat and looking into it, Smith interprets the characters into the English language.”
These accounts predated the publication of the Book of Mormon and the organization of the Church. Martin Harris was hardly an apostate at the time and he certainly was not trying to denigrate Joseph Smith. That’s the last thing he would do because he was mortgaging his farm to pay for the publication.
This is only one of the reasons why I disagree with those who insist the stone in the hat is a fabrication or lie. The error, IMO, is that people (including Martin Harris, David Whitmer, and Emma) who witnessed the demonstration in the Whitmer home inferred they were witnessing the actual translation instead of a demonstration. The demonstration downstairs was rapid and consisted of the Isaiah chapters in 2 Nephi (assuming that what Joseph dictated became part of the manuscript); the translation, which took place upstairs, was laborious and consisted of 1 Nephi and the non-Isaiah material from the small plates. We can see all of this in the original manuscript, as I showed in detail in A Man that Can Translate.
I also blogged about this a bit today:
http://www.bookofmormoncentralamerica.com/2021/06/witnesses-sith-and-tipping-point.html” Jonathan Neville
A Demonstration? Use Made of a Blanket
David Whitmer said, “In order to give privacy to the proceeding a blanket, which served as a portière, was stretched across the family living room to shelter the translators and the plates from the eyes of any who might call at the house while the work was in progress. This, Mr. Whitmer says, was the only use made of the blanket, and it was not for the purpose of concealing the plates or the translator from the eyes of the amanuensis. In fact, Smith was at no time hidden from his collaborators, and the translation was performed in the presence of not only the persons mentioned, but of the entire Whitmer household and several of Smith’s relatives besides.” David Whitmer, as interviewed by the Chicago Tribune (1885). “The Book of Mormon,” Chicago Tribune, December 17, 1885
In regards to the above quote, my good friend and associate Jonathan Neville believes it is possible that Joseph Smith showed many of the Whitmer’s a demonstration of the stone in the hat. It is a very interesting idea, but I don’t think it is correct. In my opinion I have a question about Joseph showing a demonstration to appease others curiosity and I don’t think that was necessary. I don’t think Joseph was obligated to show anyone a sneak preview so to speak. As you read my idea about the breastplate under Joseph’s shirt and the spectacles hidden with the hat as a prop only, I think it is a better possibility. As usual, you all can decide for yourself, and you can also contribute what you feel happened. None of us know for sure. Full Article Here:
Lucy Mack Smith
The Key Joseph Kept Constantly About His Person
Joseph Kept the “Key” ‘Constantly about his person’. Little room and no need for seer stones. Joseph used the “Key” to translate the Book of Mormon, not the seer stones. I believe Lucy Mack and not Martin, David or Emma.
Lucy Mack Smith said, “I trembled so much with fear lest all might be lost again by some small failure in keeping the commandments, that I was under the necessity of leaving the room to conceal my feelings. Joseph saw this and followed me. “Mother,” said he. “Do not be uneasy. All is right. See here,” said he, “I have got the key.”
I knew not what he meant, but took the article in my hands and, examining it with no covering but a silk handkerchief, found that it consisted of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows connected with each other in much the same way that old-fashioned spectacles are made. He took them again and left me, but did not tell me anything of the record….
That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed nothing more nor less than a Urim and Thummim by which the angel manifested those things to him that were shown him in vision; by which also he could at any time ascertain the approach of danger, either to himself or the record, and for this cause he kept these things constantly about his person.” (History of Joseph Smith, Revised and Enhanced, p. 139, 145)
Lucy Mack Smith About the Breastplate
“After bringing home the plates, Joseph now commenced work with his father on the farm in order to be as near as possible the treasure that was committed to his care.
Soon after this, he came in from work one afternoon, and after remaining a short time, he put on his greatcoat and left the house. I was engaged at the time in an upper room in preparing some oilcloths for painting. When he returned, he requested me to come downstairs. I told him that I could not leave my work just then, yet upon his urgent request, I finally concluded to go down and see what he wanted, upon which he handed me the breastplate spoken of in his history.
Editors Note: See Painting above titled, “Joseph kept the Urim and Thummim constantly about his person” by Anne Marie Oborn. Completed Sep. 2023 which is the 200 year anniversary of Sept 22, 1823 when Joseph first was shown the plates. The setting for this painting in Sept 22, 1827 when Joseph received the actual plates, Interpreters and Breastplate.
Lucy continues, “It was wrapped in a thin muslin handkerchief, so thin that I could see the glistening metal and ascertain its proportions without any difficulty.
It was concave on one side and convex on the other and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders, and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips. They were just the width of two of my fingers (for I measured them), and they had holes in the end of them to be convenient in fastening.
The whole plate was worth at least five hundred dollars. After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummim.” (History of Joseph Smith, Revised and Enhanced)
“I have myself seen and handled the golden plates; they are about eight inches long, and six wide; some of them are sealed together and are not to be opened, and some of them are loose. They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate, and are covered with letters beautifully engraved. I have seen and felt also the Urim and Thummim. They resemble two large bright diamonds set in a bow like a pair of spectacles. My son puts these over his eyes when he reads unknown languages, and they enable him to interpret them in English. I have likewise carried in my hands the sacred breastplate. It is composed of pure gold and is made to fit the breast very exactly.” Lucy Mack Smith (in Henry Caswall, The City of the Mormons; or, Three Days at Nauvoo, in 1842, 2nd ed. revised and enlarged, (London: J. G. F. & J. Rivington, 1843), 26) Other source
Mosiah and Alma and Handed Down
11 Therefore he took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, and also the plates of Nephi, and all the things which he had kept and preserved according to the commandments of God, after having translated and caused to be written the records which were on the plates of gold which had been found by the people of Limhi, which were delivered to him by the hand of Limhi;
12 And this he did because of the great anxiety of his people; for they were desirous beyond measure to know concerning those people who had been destroyed.
13 And now he translated them by the means of those two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow.
14 Now these things were prepared from the beginning, and were handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages;
15 And they have been kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord, that he should discover to every creature who should possess the land the iniquities and abominations of his people;
16 And whosoever has these things is called seer, after the manner of old times.
17 Now after Mosiah had finished translating these records, behold, it gave an account of the people who were destroyed, from the time that they were destroyed back to the building of the great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people and they were scattered abroad upon the face of all the earth, yea, and even from that time back until the creation of Adam.
18 Now this account did cause the people of Mosiah to mourn exceedingly, yea, they were filled with sorrow; nevertheless it gave them much knowledge, in the which they did rejoice.
19 And this account shall be written hereafter; for behold, it is expedient that all people should know the things which are written in this account.
20 And now, as I said unto you, that after king Mosiah had done these things, he took the plates of brass, and all the things which he had kept, and conferred them upon Alma, who was the son of Alma; yea, all the records, and also the interpreters, and conferred them upon him, and commanded him that he should keep and preserve them, and also keep a record of the people, handing them down from one generation to another, even as they had been handed down from the time that Lehi left Jerusalem. Mosiah 28:11-20
“The Prophet Joseph Smith used the same Urim and Thummim that was “given to the brother of Jared upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face” (D&C 17:1). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote a brief history regarding the Urim and Thummim: “King Mosiah possessed ‘two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow,’ called by the Nephites Interpreters, with which he translated the Jaredite record [Mosiah 28:11–14], and these were handed down from generation to generation for the purposes of interpreting languages. How Mosiah came into possession of these two stones or Urim and Thummim the record does not tell us, more than to say that it was a ‘gift from God’ [Mosiah 21:28]. Mosiah had this gift or Urim and Thummim before the people of Limhi discovered the record of Ether. They may have been received when the ‘large stone’ was brought to Mosiah with engravings upon it, which he interpreted by the ‘gift and power of God’ [Omni 1:20–21]. They may have been given to him, or to some other prophet before his day, just as the Brother of Jared received them—from the Lord. “That the Urim and Thummim, or two stones, given to the Brother of Jared were those in the possession of Mosiah appears evident from Book of Mormon teachings. The Brother of Jared was commanded to seal up his writings of the vision he had when Christ appeared to him, so that they could not be read by his people. … The Urim and Thummim were also sealed up so that they could not be used for the purpose of interpreting those sacred writings of this vision, until such time as the Lord should grant to man to interpret them. When they were to be revealed, they were to be interpreted by the aid of the same Urim and Thummim [Ether 3:21–28]. …“Joseph Smith received with the breastplate and the plates of the Book of Mormon, the Urim and Thummim, which were hid up by Moroni to come forth in the last days as a means by which the ancient record might be translated, which Urim and Thummim were given to the Brother of Jared [D&C 17:1]” (Joseph Fielding Smith Doctrines of Salvation, 3:223–25). The Prophet inquired of the Lord, and D&C Section 17 was given in answer through the Urim and Thummim.
Alma the Younger tells Helaman to Preserve Interpreters & Director
21 And now, I will speak unto you concerning those twenty-four plates, that ye keep them, that the mysteries and the works of darkness, and their secret works, or the secret works of those people who have been destroyed, may be made manifest unto this people; yea, all their murders, and robbings, and their plunderings, and all their wickedness and abominations, may be made manifest unto this people; yea, and that ye preserve these interpreters. Alma 37:21
38 And now, my son, I have somewhat to say concerning the thing which our fathers call a ball, or director—or our fathers called it Liahona, which is, being interpreted, a compass; and the Lord prepared it.
39 And behold, there cannot any man work after the manner of so curious a workmanship. And behold, it was prepared to show unto our fathers the course which they should travel in the wilderness. Alma 37:38-39
47 And now, my son, see that ye take care of these sacred things, yea, see that ye look to God and live. Go unto this people and declare the word, and be sober. My son, farewell. Alma 37:47
Lucy Mack says Joseph gets U&T back
[Note: The essay doesn’t explain what “lost the ability to translate” means, but Lucy Mack Smith explained that Joseph had to give up the Urim and Thummim after losing the 116 pages.
Later, Joseph told her that “on the 22d of September [1828], I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the Urim and Thummim; and have commenced translating again, and Emma writes for me; but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and I trust his promise will be verified. He also seemed pleased with me, when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim; and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility.
“Soon after I received them I inquired of the Lord, and obtained the following revelation”:
“Now, behold I say unto you, that, because <you> delivered up those writings, which you had power given you to translate, by the means of the Urim and Thummim into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them; and you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened;”[11] [11] D&C 10:1-2; Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1845, online at https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/143
Lucy Mack Smith reported this:
“After the angel left me’, said he [Joseph], “I continued my supplications to God without cessation; and, on the 22d of September [1828], I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the Urim and Thummim; and have commenced translating again, and Emma writes for me; but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and <I> trust his promise will be verified. The angel He also seemed pleased with me, when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim; and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility…
4. This is consistent with Emma acting as scribe after the 116 pages were lost, but inconsistent with her claim that he did not use the Urim and Thummim.
Key point: If Emma started writing the translation in the fall of 1828, the common assumption that Joseph translated the plates in 90 days is wrong. Oliver arrived in Harmony in April 1829, seven months after Joseph received back the Urim and Thummim and began translating. http://www.moronisamerica.com/changing-church-history-and-emma-smith-2/
“on the 22 of September I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the record Urim and Thummin; and have commenced translating again, and Emma writes for me; but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and <I> trust his promise will be verified. The angel He also seemed pleased with me, when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim; and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility.” https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/145 (emphasis added) Jonathan Neville Page 52-53 “A Man that can Translate”
2nd Hand Witness of Interpreters by Joseph Fielding Smith
“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22–24. These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Doctrines of Salvation,” Vol. 3, 225-26).
From here we discuss the testimonies of the three witnesses who saw the gold plates.
“Restoration of All Things” by Joseph Fielding Smith
CHAPTER TWELVE A TESTIMONY AGAINST THE WORLD
Address delivered Sunday, August 20, 1944
In the Mouth of Three Witnesses
When Moroni was about to seal up the record of his people that it might be preserved to be brought forth in the last days, he added these words of counsel for those who were to be privileged to bring it forth:
And behold, ye may be privileged that ye may show the plates unto those who shall assist to bring forth this work;
And unto three shall they be shown by the power of God; wherefore they shall know of a surety that these things are true.
And in the mouth of three witnesses shall these things be established; and the testimony of three, and this work, in the which shall be shown forth the power of God and also his word, of which the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost bear record—and all this shall stand as a testimony against the world at the last day.
And if it so be that they repent and come unto the Father in the name of Jesus, they shall be received into the kingdom of God.
And now, if I have no authority for these things, judge ye; for ye shall know that I have authority when ye shall see me, and we shall stand before God at the last day. Amen.
Strength of the Testimony
What a bold, dangerous thing it would have been for Joseph Smith to have made such a statement as this to the world, if the Book of Mormon were a fraud. He would have taken a risk where the chances for success would have been all against him. The calling of three witnesses to testify with him to the fraud, and to declare that they would have the privilege of testifying by the “power of God,” which in this case meant in the presence of an angel sent from the Almighty, was so bold, so unlikely to succeed if not true, that even a fool would have hesitated to present such a thing. Joseph Smith was no fool, even his bitter enemies gave him credit for being not that.
Among the difficulties confronting him would be, first, that there would be so many errors open to detection in the scheme, that it could not have succeeded; second, he would never have dared to permit any one of these witnesses to become estranged from him and he would have been subject to their dictation; third, to hold them he never could have permitted any one of the three to be estranged from the others, and fourth, the conspirators never could have hung together in the face of the persecutions and hatred which followed them, for under the stress of such opposition as they received, the story would unquestionably have fallen apart and been exposed.
The Witnesses True to Testimony
We have considered the nature of the testimony these three men, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer and Martin Harris gave to the world. How positively, frankly and without any coercion, they declared that in the presence of the angel they beheld the plates, examined the writing upon them, and heard the voice of God speaking to them from the heavens commanding them to bear record of what they had seen and heard. The question now is, were these three men true to that testimony under all circumstances and all the days of their lives? The answer to this question is one of the greatest weight, carrying a responsibility which cannot be easily ignored, and which leaves every soul unto whom their testimony comes, subject to the warning of Nephi: “Wo be unto him that rejecteth the word of God!” For if the testimony of these three is true, no man can reject it without rejecting the word of God.
The Witnesses Estranged
For a number of years, after the publication of the Book of Mormon, and the organization of the Church, these three men were faithful, earnest members of the Church, sustaining and fellowshipping with Joseph Smith. There came a time, however, because of persecution and misunderstanding when all three of these men were estranged from Joseph Smith. Two of them, Oliver Cowdery, who had been a witness with Joseph Smith on many occasions of the opening of the heavens, and David Whitmer, were severed from the Church. The third man, Martin Harris, just drifted away for a season from the body of the Church. Joseph Smith not only permitted these men to take this course, but sustained the councils of the Church when action was taken. For eleven years Oliver Cowdery was estranged from Joseph Smith and the Church and during that time he went into the practice of law, but always during those years he bore the same testimony in relation to his association with Joseph Smith and his heavenly manifestations. After the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery felt his way back to the Church. In March, 1846, while he was out of the Church, he wrote to his brother-in-law, Phineas Young, as follows:
I have cherished a hope, and that one of my fondest, that I might leave such a character as those who might believe in my testimony, after I should be called hence, might do so, not only for the sake of the truth, but might not blush for the private character of the man who bore that testimony. I have been sensitive on this subject, I admit, but I ought to be so, you would be, under the circumstances, had you stood in the presence of John with our departed brother, Joseph, to receive the Lesser Priesthood, and in the presence of Peter, to receive the greater, and looked down through time, and witnessed the effects these two must produce—you would feel what you have never felt, were wicked men conspiring to lessen the effects of your testimony to man, after you have gone to your long-sought rest.
This testimony written while Oliver Cowdery was out of the Church is now in my keeping. It is a letter in his own handwriting. In October, 1848, he made his way from Tiffin, Ohio, his residence, to Kanesville, Iowa, to take up again his association with the Latter-day Saints. At a conference held there, October 21st, 1848, presided over by elder Orson Hyde, Oliver Cowdery asked for the privilege of speaking, and he said:
Oliver Cowdery’s Return
Friends and Brethren: My name is Cowdery, Oliver Cowdery. In the early history of this Church, I stood identified with her, and one in her councils. True it is that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; not because I was better than the rest of mankind was I called, to fulfill the purposes of God. He called me to a high and holy calling. I wrote with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, “holy interpreters.” I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the “holy interpreters.” The book is true. Sidney Rigdon did not write it; Mr. Spaulding did not write it; I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet. It contains the everlasting gospel, and came forth to the children of men in fulfillment of the revelations of John, where he says he saw an angel come with the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. It contains principles of salvation; and if you, my hearers, will walk by its light and obey its precepts, you will be saved with an everlasting salvation in the kingdom of God on high. Brother Hyde has just said that it is very important that we keep and walk in the true channel, in order to avoid the sand-bars. The Holy Priesthood is here. I was present with Joseph when an holy angel from God came down from heaven and conferred on us, or restored, the Lesser or Aaronic Priesthood, and said to us at the same time, that it should remain upon the earth while the earth stands. I was also present with Joseph when the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood was conferred by holy angels from on high. This Priesthood we then conferred on each other, by the will and commandment of God. This Priesthood, as was then declared, is also to remain upon the earth until the last remnant of time. This holy Priesthood or authority, we then conferred upon many, and it is just as good and valid as though God had done it in person. I laid my hands upon that man, yes, I laid my right hand upon his head (pointing to Elder Hyde) and he holds that Priesthood now. He was also called through me, by the prayer of faith, an apostle of Jesus Christ.
One month later in November, 1848, at another meeting Oliver Cowdery said:
Brethren, for a number of years I have been separated from you. I now desire to come back. I wish to come humbly and to be one in your midst. I seek no station. I only wish to be identified with you. I am out of the Church. I am not a member of the Church, but I wish to become a member of it. I wish to come in at the door. I know the door. I have not come here to seek precedence. I come humbly and throw myself upon the decisions of this body, knowing, as I do, that its decisions are right, and should be obeyed.
His request was granted and he was baptized and again was received in full fellowship in the Church, and in this fellowship, he continued to witness to the day of his death.
It must be a strange being with a soul not susceptible to penetration by simple facts, who cannot see in the story of Oliver Cowdery the sincerity of his testimony. When we stop to think that while absent from his former associates and not fellowshipping with them, he still maintained and defended his testimony, and then in the darkest hour of the history of the Church, when all the world felt that the Mormon people had gone from Nauvoo to their destruction, for they could not exist under the circumstances in their drivings and poverty, it was at that very hour that Oliver Cowdery sought out these exiled refugees and asked if he could join them again. He was aware of the fact that in doing so he would have to share their distress and poverty. He knew that they had been driven from their homes for the sake of their religion. Such scenes were not new to him; in the early days he had passed through such scenes and he was now willing to endure such scenes again. That was not the action of a man guilty of perpetrating a fraud.
David Whitmer Maintains His Testimony
David Whitmer likewise retained the integrity of his story after he was excommunicated from the Church. Some years after the death of Joseph Smith, he gathered about him a group of followers and taught them, as he understood it, the gospel. He prepared an address which he dedicated to all believers in Christ. In this publication he maintained his story in the most emphatic manner. Thousands of persons out of curiosity and for information, interviewed him, and all received the same story—that the angel appeared to him and the others and revealed the plates of the ancient record. There are hundreds of people still living who heard his testimony and were convinced that he told them the truth. March 19, 1881, in the spirit of indignation, because his veracity had been questioned, David Whitmer published the following statement in the Richmond “Conservator,” the paper of his home town:
Unto all nations, kindred, tongues and people unto whom these presents shall come:
It having been represented by one John Murphy of Polo (Caldwell County), Missouri, that I had in a conversation with him last summer, denied my testimony as one of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon….
To the end, therefore, that he may understand me now if he did not then, and that the world may know the truth, I wish now, standing as it were, in the very sunset of life, and in the fear of God, once for all to make this public statement:
That I have never at any time denied that testimony or any part thereof, which has so long since been published with that book, as one of the three witnesses.
Those who know me best, will know that I have always adhered to that testimony. And that no man may be misled or doubt my present views in regard to the same, I do now again affirm the truth of all my statements as then made and published.
He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear; it was no delusion. What is written is written and he that readeth let him understand. And if any man doubt, should he not carefully and honestly read and understand the same before presuming to sit in judgment, and condemning the light which shineth in darkness, and showeth the way of eternal life, as pointed out by the hand of God?
In the Spirit of Christ who hath said follow thou me, for I am the life, the light and the way, I submit this statement to the world, God in whom I trust being my Judge, as to the sincerity of my motives and the faith and hope that is in me of eternal life.
My sincere desire is that the world may be benefited by the plain and simple statement of the truth.
And all the honor be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
David Whitmer
Richmond, Missouri, March 19, A.D. 1881.
The original document which I have just read is now in my possession. I obtained it from the family of David Whitmer. This document bears the endorsements of leading citizens of Richmond, Ray County, Missouri, as follows:
We, the undersigned, citizens of Richmond, Ray County, Missouri, where David Whitmer, Sr., has resided since the year, A.D. 1838, certify that we have been long and intimately acquainted with him, and know him to be a man of the highest integrity, and of undoubted truth and veracity—Given at Richmond, Missouri, this March 19, A.D. 1881.
A. W. Doniphan
George W. Dunn, Judge of the Fifth Judicial Circuit
T. D. Woodson, President, Ray County Savings Bank
Jacob O. Child, Editor of “Conservator”
H. C. Garner, Cashier Ray County Savings Bank
W. A. Holman, County Treasurer
J. S. Hughes, Banker, Richmond, Missouri
James Hughes, Banker, Richmond, Missouri
D. P. Whitmer, Attorney at Law
James W. Black, Attorney at Law
L. C. Cantwell, Postmaster, Richmond, Missouri
George I. Wassen, Mayor
James A. Davis, Probate Judge and Presiding Judge, Ray County Court
George E. Trigg, County Clerk
W. W. Mosby, M.D.
Thomas McGinnis, Late Sheriff, Ray CountyW. R. Holman, Furniture Merchant
J. P. Queensbury, Merchant
Lewis Slaughter, Recorder of Deeds
George W. Buchannan, M.D.
A. K. Reyburn
The following comment was also published in the Richmond “Conservator”:
Elsewhere we publish a letter from David Whitmer, Sen., an old and well known citizen of Ray, as well as an endorsement of his standing as a man, signed by a number of the leading citizens of this community, in reply to some unwarranted aspersions made upon him.
There is no doubt that Mr. Whitmer, who was one of the Three Witnesses of the authenticity of the gold plates, from which he asserts that Joe Smith translated the Book of Mormon (a facsimile of the characters he now has in his possession with the original records) is firmly convinced of its divine origin, and while he makes no effort to obtrude his views or belief, he simply wants the world to know that so far as he is concerned there is no “variableness or shadow of turning.” Having resided here for a half of a century, it is with no little pride that he points to his past record, with the consciousness that he has done nothing derogatory to his character as a citizen and a believer in the Son of Mary to warrant such an attack on him, come from what source it may, and now, with the lilies of seventy-five winters crowning him like an aureole, and his pilgrimage on earth well nigh ended, he reiterates his former statement and will leave futurity to solve the problem that he was but a passing witness of its fulfillment.
Martin Harris
Martin Harris, the third witness, died a faithful member of the Church, at Clarkston, Cache County, July 10, 1875, nearly ninety-three years of age, firm in his testimony, which was borne for the last time on earth but a few hours before he passed away.
These men were not deceivers; they were not deceived, and their united testimony will stand as a condemnation against an unbelieving world, at the last day.” Restoration of all things CHAPTER TWELVE A TESTIMONY AGAINST THE WORLD Address delivered Sunday, August 20, 1944 by Joseph Fielding Smith
Jonathan Neville’s Opinion of “Witnesses” Movie
Witnesses, SITH, and the tipping point Posted: 16 Jun 2021
A few notes (trigger warning for SITH/M2C promoters):
The Witnesses movie is generating a lot of discussion on social media because of SITH (the stone-in-the-hat). The movie adopts the approach taken by Mormonism Unvailed, the 1834 anti-Mormon book that claimed Joseph never even used the plates but produced the Book of Mormon by reading a “peep stone” he put in a hat. John Dehlin (picture right) of Mormon Stories is delighted. SITH is one of his key points, as he explains on TikTok (31.7k views in one day, 800 views on twitter)https://www.tiktok.com/@drjohndehlin/video/6973701578431778053?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1
There’s no pushback against SITH from any Church leaders or prominent scholars. Instead, Kawku promotes SITH as a feature, not a bug. Our scholars fall all over themselves trying to justify SITH (much as they did with the Hoffman documents decades ago). Like other intellectual trends, we can see the origins of SITH among LDS academics even before Rough Stone Rolling came out, but that book pushed it into the mainstream. I think Rough Stone Rolling is an exceptional, timely, and useful book, but it portrayed some interpretations as fact and overlooked other facts, as I indicated in Part 1 of my summary, here: http://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/p/rough-stone-rolling-analysis-part-1.html.
Saints and the Gospel Topics Essay on Book of Mormon Translation formalized SITH, mainly by ignoring historical sources that corroborate what Joseph and Oliver taught and instead relying on sources that, on a surface level, contradicted what Joseph and Oliver taught. The Essay never even quotes what Joseph and Oliver said about the translation with the Urim and Thummim. Instead, it focuses on the theories of various academics.
The Urim and Thummim is essentially de-correlated. No one is claiming any revelation about what happened in Church history to overturn what Joseph and Oliver taught. The new narrative is based purely on revisionist historical interpretation of the same facts everyone has known for over 150 years. People today, looking at some historical evidence while ignoring other evidence, thereby conclude Joseph’s contemporaries and successors were wrong. This is the same process by which Cumorah was de-correlated. Consequently, SITH has become the prevailing narrative in our day. And that’s great for those who believe it. If you think it’s awesome that the Book of Mormon is the product of words appearing on a stone in a hat, and not a translation of the ancient Nephite plates (as Joseph and Oliver claimed), good for you. I’m not going to say you’re wrong. People can and will believe whatever they want.
But it seems likely (and statistics indicate) that most people will not accept that narrative, whether they are inside or outside the Church. In 1834, Mormonism Unvailed promoted SITH because the author knew it undermined the credibility of Joseph and Oliver. Detractors today promote SITH for the same reason. _____There are alternative interpretations of the evidence.
For example, the Stoddards and others reject SITH by saying David Whitmer, Emma, Martin Harris etc. were liars. However, that plays into the critical narrative that the witnesses were dishonest. This is the mirror image of the SITH/M2C approach; i.e., we can believe some of what the witnesses said, but we have to reject other things they said, based on what we want to be true. Similarly, our M2C scholars (M2C=Mesoamerican/Two-Cumorahs theory) reject what the witnesses said about Cumorah because they want Cumorah to be in Mexico to fit their theories. But they still expect people to believe SITH based on what the witnesses said. It’s transparent cherry picking.
Now you see why I’ve been saying that: Interpreter=CESLetter=FAIRLDS=MormonStories=BookofMormonCentral=BYUStudies.
They’ve all reached a consensus that the prophets are wrong any time they disagree with the prophets.
If they disagree, they disagree only with regard to which things the prophets were wrong about–a distinction without a difference._____
I realize there are numerous interpretations of the evidence, ranging from Joseph seeing the words on a stone (or in vision) to Joseph composing, memorizing or reading the text. Some even say that when Joseph and Oliver testified about the Urim and Thummim, they deliberately misled people because they knew they were really referring to the stone Joseph found in a well; i.e., they used misleading terminology.
People can believe whatever they want, and that’s fine with me. But I’ve looked at all these explanations and none of them make sense to me. That’s why I looked at the evidence for myself. So far, the only explanation I’m aware of that reconciles Joseph and Oliver as credible, and David and Emma as credible, is the demonstration narrative I set out in A Man that Can Translate.
I’m completely open to any better explanations. If you know of one, email me at [email protected] are still some Latter-day Saints who believe what the prophets have taught about both the translation and the historicity of the Book of Mormon, including the New York Cumorah. This is not “blind faith” or “blind obedience.” This is recognizing that the people involved with the events are more credible than arm-chair commentators distant in time and space. It is also recognizing science- and fact-based, rational analysis supports and corroborates the teachings of the prophets. Source: About Central America(Visited 20 times, 14 visits today)
http://www.moronisamerica.com/witnesses-sith-and-the-tipping-point/
How the Book Saints frames the Translation
With Emma’s father around, translating would not be easy, but Joseph tried his best. Assisted by Emma, he copied many of the strange characters from the plates to paper.10 Then, for several weeks, he tried to translate them with the Urim and Thummim. The process required him to do more than look into the interpreters. He had to be humble and exercise faith as he studied the characters.11
A few months later, Martin came to Harmony. He said he felt called by the Lord to travel as far as New York City to consult experts in ancient languages. He hoped they could translate the characters.12
Joseph copied several more characters from the plates, wrote down his translation, and handed the paper to Martin. He and Emma then watched as their friend headed east to consult with distinguished scholars.13
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/saints-v1/05-all-is-lost?lang=eng
The historians claim that Joseph sent the copied characters to Anthon to get them translated because he was unable to translate them. He merely “tried” to do it. Of course, that directly contradicts JS-History 1:62.
62 By this timely aid was I enabled to reach the place of my destination in Pennsylvania; and immediately after my arrival there I commenced copying the characters off the plates. I copied a considerable number of them, and by means of the Urim and Thummim I translated some of them, which I did between the time I arrived at the house of my wife’s father, in the month of December, and the February following.
(Joseph Smith—History 1:62)
Read the first paragraph. Clearly states that Joseph “spent considerable time and effort becoming familiar with the language of the plates and learning how to translate.”
“I then continued <said> Joseph my suplications to God without cessation that his mercy might again be exercised towards me and on the 22 of september I had the Joy and satisfaction of again receiving the record Urim and Thummin into my possession and I have commenced translating and Emma writes for me now but the angel said that if I got the plates again that the Lord woul[d] send some one to write for me and I trust that if it will be so. he also said that the <he> angel seemed <was> rejoiced when he gave him <me> back the plates <urim and Thummim> and said that he <God> was pleased with his <my> faithfulness and humility also that the Lord was pleased with him and loved him <me> for his <my> penitence and dilligence in prayer in the which he <I> had performed his duty so well as to receive the record <urim and Thummin> and be <was> able to enter upon the work of translation again.” (emphasis added) https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/91
Lucy’s History 1845 revised the passage but kept the essence of her original history on this point.
“on the 22 of September I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the record Urim and Thummin; and have commenced translating again, and Emma writes for me; but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and <I> trust his promise will be verified. The angel He also seemed pleased with me, when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim; and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility.” https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/145 (emphasis added) Jonathan Neville Page 52-53 “A Man that can Translate”
Seer Stone v Urim and Thummim
Seer Stone v. Urim and Thummim places the Book of Mormon translation on trial, presenting the latest research in one of the most comprehensive treatments of the translation process to date providing encouragement for Latter-day Saints who fear they have been “betrayed” by the translation history taught by the Church for over 190 years.
Did Joseph Smith study and master the Nephite language? Did the Prophet tutor some of the early Brethren in ancient Nephite characters?
Did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon using a dark seer stone in a hat?
Why are progressive historians creating a new history using sources from a man who vowed to wash his hands in the blood of Joseph Smith, while boasting that he had deceived the Prophet and his God?
Has The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints covered up its history for nearly 200 years? Length: 240 pages
“Traditionalists believe that progressives are destined to inherit ignorance because they reject revelation. Progressives believe that traditionalists are mired in ignorance because they do not fully accept and embrace the philosophies and teachings of the learned. Regardless of which position one takes, nearly all agree—an unbridgeable gulf separates the two.” FAITH CRISIS: Did the LDS Church Lie? (Part 1) We Were NOT Betrayed! By James and Hannah Stoddard
David Whitmer’s Error
“Whitmer thus continued to the grave, his 1829 on-site understanding of “Urim and Thummim” as a single seer stone. The Church in Utah attempted to correct Whitmer’s “error” above, shortly after its publication in the Chicago Times, with these comments . . . “The next error is that the seer stone which Joseph used in the translation ‘was called Urim and Thummim.’ The instrument thus denominated was composed of two crystal stones ‘set in the two rims of a bow.’ The seer stone was separate and distinct from the Urim and Thummim. The latter was delivered to the angel as well as the plates after the translation was completed; the former remained with the Church and is now in the possession of the President.” [Reynolds 1883, 85; citing, on his page 84 as his source quoted, “The Deseret Evening News at the time of the publication of his letter . . . ,” by which Reynolds means the letter of the Chicago Times correspondent to the Chicago Times, reporting his interview with Whitmer.” Mormon Parallels: A Bibliographic Source © 2014 Rick Grunder page 1522
Final Support for the use of the Interpreters
“In this respect the testimony of Lorenzo Brown about the preparation the Prophet made for his translation of the Bible may be instructive. He records the Prophet as saying: “After I got through translating the Book of Mormon, I took up the Bible to read with the Urim and Thummim. I read the first chapter of Genesis and I saw the things as they were done. I turned over the next and the next, and the whole passed before me like a grand panorama; and so on chapter after chapter until I read the whole of it. I saw it all!“ (as cited in Matthews, Plainer Translation, 25).” The Process of Translating the Book of Mormon Joseph Fielding McConkie (Professor of Ancient Scripture, BYU) Craig J. Ostler (Assistant Professor of Church History and Doctrine, BYU)
As the nay-sayers explain Joseph used the seer stone because the U&T was taken away, how would they explain Joseph using the U&T to translate the Bible and the other sections of the D&C?
“Not only did Joseph Smith use the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon, but he also used it to receive revelation from God. Specifically, Doctrine and Covenants sections 3, 6, 11, and 14, 15,16, were all given through the Urim and Thummim. (See headings to these sections) We learn from the Doctrine and Covenants that “the place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.” In addition, “this earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon.” And each person who receives the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17 will be able to use the Urim and Thummim (D&C 130:8–10).” by Jay A. Parry and Larry E. Morris, adapted from “The Mormon Book of Lists” | Jan. 18, 2019 LDS Living
The earliest known description of the process of translating the Book of Mormon is found in an article titled “History of the Mormonites,” published 9 June 1831, in Kirtland, Ohio. The writer, Josiah Jones, claims as his source the first Latter-day Saint missionaries to that territory Elders Cowdery, Pratt, Whitmer, and Peterson, from whom he learned that the book was translated by “looking into a stone or two stones, when put into a dark place, which stones he said were found in the box with the plates. They affirmed while [Joseph] looked through the stone spectacles another sat by and wrote what he told them, and thus the book was written. . . .
“A few days after these men appeared again, a few of us went to see them and Cowdery was requested to state how the plates were found, which he did. He stated that Smith looked onto or through the transparent stones to translate what was on the plates. I then asked him if he had ever looked through the stones to see what he could see in them; his reply was that he was not permitted to look into them. I asked him who debarred him from looking into them; he remained sometime in silence, then said that he had so much confidence in his friend Smith, who told him that he must not look into them, that he did not presume to do so lest he should tempt God and be struck dead” (Allen, “Historian’s Corner,” 308). As told in: The Process of Translating the Book of Mormon Joseph Fielding McConkie (Professor of Ancient Scripture, BYU) Craig J. Ostler (Assistant Professor of Church History and Doctrine, BYU)
In describing the quote from Josiah Jones, Joseph looked through one or two stones, he didn’t mention a hat, the stones were found in the box with the plates, and he looked through stone spectacles, it is clear that while Mr. Jones had never seen the U&T he described the process as a U&T not as a single seer stone. See the incredible article below.
