Arrowheads, The Cave, and “Actual Stone” at Cumorah

On Dec 17, 2019 Rian Nelson received an email from Kathy Burris giving him permission to post her email that she had sent to Rod Meldrum below. She mentioned it is fine to include her father’s name; Lee Ward, who has passed away. Kathy shared these experiences at the FIRM Foundation Conference in April 2016. We haven’t located the video tape.

From: Kathy Burris
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:24:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Amazing Palmyra Experiences 

Brother Meldrum:

My name is Kathy Burris. Last year I contacted Wayne May regarding use of some of his PPT slides for a presentation that I often give at various Stake firesides. I grew up in Palmyra, NY, and over the years have had some very powerful experiences regarding the truthfulness of Joseph Smith, his family and the Book of Mormon.

As we are a military family, and move quite often, it seems that where I move people ask that I do this presentation for Ward, R.S., Stake and sometime tri-stake firesides. The feedback that I get is that it has helped so many to strengthen their testimony about Joseph Smith, the Man and the prophet. I want you to know that I often suggest that they review your video and give them the link to your website. I get a lot of people during the Q&A portion of my presentation for more information on your presentation and website, as well as Wayne’s. I highly promote this evidence and completely dispute the Central America belief system, which often gets a lot of blank stares as it still seems to be the most believed “theory” among LDS today, which astounds me. However, by the end of my presentation, and the brief explanation I am able to throw in there for the evidence, they seem VERY intrigued to look in that direction.

As I became acquainted with Wayne, I shared with him some personal stories that I would like to share with you later on in this email. I just completed watching your video again (one of my favorites as it gets me pumped up right before I have to give a presentation, along with re-reading Lucy Mack Smith’s biography) regarding the DNA evidences of the Book of Mormon and have to say that many of what you state I knew. Not because I had heard it before, but because of my own research and testimony. My father [Lee Ward] was quite the historian in the Palmyra area. So much so that the church would ask him to give special tours to “VIP” that would visit the area. He had studied for so long areas that are “off the beaten path” so to speak of the normal Palmyra / Fayette Upstate NY church historical sites, along with the ancient Indian sites in the area; (the Native American history was one of my father’s favorite things to research, second only to church history). This love of history spilled over and I would often find myself pleading with my father on Saturdays to take me on a “church” tour because I loved those off the beaten spots and because I just loved being with my father.

I remember as a child when the Central America idea became popular. My parents, both very well-read in church history and archaeology, got every book they could find on the matter. However, I remember the overall consensus after doing their research that the findings just simply did not add up to Joseph Smith’s own personal statements, references and scriptural context. So, when you presented much of what Joseph has said on the subject regarding evidence of the Book of Mormon here in the United States, that is exactly what I had been brought up with from all the research my father had done regarding this subject based on Joseph Smith.

My father LOVED Joseph Smith. As a matter of fact, his testimony and conversion came more from the D&C than from the BofM because he loved history so much and he loved Joseph. And, growing up in Palmyra, you couldn’t help but have a connection to the Smith family. So, as I grew up and started my young life on the coat tail of my parent’s testimony, my love for church history and Joseph Smith blossomed. I found myself going to the local library and searching all the articles, ads and such that had been written in the local papers of the time about the Smiths. I was blown away with the extent of information I would find. It was worse than modern-day paparazzi and was amazed how they did not go “insane” with all the bad press that would constantly lead to their afflictions and persecution. I often went to Alvin Smith’s grave [Located 1 block north west of the Grandin building on Main St. Palmyra] and talked to him, as if he was a long-time friend. Soon, he became just that, a very dear friend. Or sitting on the J.S. home porch in the evenings if I had a horrific test the next day, or was once again picked-on because I was a Mormon and I just needed to be close to the the Smith Family because I knew, of all people, they would understand me. Or sitting at the top of the Hill Cumorah and envision what Mormon witnessed before the destruction of his people. Over the years I can honestly say that not only did I gain a personal testimony of Joseph as a man and prophet, but a love, admiration and a very strong friendship with the entire Smith family.

Some interesting personal experiences you may find interesting. Of the many testimonies and letters that have been written by church authorities and prophets testifying that the Hill Cumorah in Upstate New York is indeed THE hill as stated in the Book of Mormon, my father relates a personal story. Gordon B. Hinckley was out for a visit and my father was one assigned to his security. President Hinckley wanted to go to the top of the Hill so my father and a few of the men on the security team followed him. While on top my father said President Hinckley was very contemplative as he looked out over the horizon. Everyone was quiet and reverent as they should be.

Suddenly, he turned to my father and the men and prophetically stated that he is a witness that they are standing on the very Hill that not only housed the records given to Joseph, but the very Hill where the destruction of the Nephites took place as stated in the Book of Mormon.

This experience, with so many other prophetic statements I have read from previous prophets and apostles, is another “nail in the coffin” so to speak that the two Hill Cumorah theory is just not relevant. I don’t know about you but when a prophet of the Lord prophesies in such a way, end of story. I have often found it perplexing why these LDS scholars seem to constantly ignore these prophetic statements. I know they are good men and women and their hearts are in the right place, but how can you dismiss these statements. I also remember years before that when President Benson came out to visit, he prophesied the same thing and it was revealed to the Stake at Stake Conference that was held at the Hill (once a year when I was young, they use to have Stake Conference at the Hill. It always amazed me how it never rained).

Years ago, when the church was working on filming “How Rare A Possession,” (See Video Here) the Church contacted brother [L…] in our stake. [Le…] was quite a well-known, successful landscaper in the area (I also dated his son). They asked him if he could locate a rock that would be as close to the dimensions of the rock that would have covered the stone box where the plates were deposited. [L…] took this task VERY seriously and read the entire BofM in three days (morning and night). At around 3AM, just as he finished the last page, he knelt down in prayer and asked the Lord to guide him to such a rock. Upon finishing his supplication he heard a voice tell him to go to the Hill at that moment. He lived about 45 minutes from the Hill. By the time he arrived, the sun was just starting to rise. He said within 15 minutes he was directed to a spot on the Hill and as he peered down he noticed a tip of a rock jutting out of the hillside. As he started to dig, he realized how large this stone truly was. Then he heard another voice tell him, this is THE stone....the very stone that laid on top of the box. He immediately stopped his digging and decided to contact the Church. Upon calling them to tell them he believes he found THE stone, the brother told him that they knew and already had 4 men on a flight out there to meet with him and that he was to wait until they got there before removal of the stone. He said it took 5 men to lift the stone. The stone was used in the filming of the movie and is currently kept in the granite vaults in UT. You may be aware from your historical research that the actual stone box was reported by Oliver Cowdery that “the casket had been washed down to the foot of the Hill.” Thus, the box is no longer.

He asked the Brethren if he would be allowed to show the place where he found it. However, the church concerned that the spot would be desecrated, they told him he could show only two families. He chose my family along with another. A FHE picnic was held at the Hill with all three families, and then he took the families to the spot where the stone was found. My mother and brother both said later that they noticed small rocks that seemed to be put in a circular fashion and [L…] said he had not put them there and also noticed the rocks. He assumed Joseph had placed them there (or maybe even Moroni) as a quick marker to help him locate the area upon his return each year. 

A few years later, in 1990, the church rewrote the script for the Hill Cumorah Pageant. This required that the entire front face of the Hill be torn up in order to fit the new stage. I remember at this time I was working at the Hill for the Church. My father and family were well respected, especially anything pertaining to history, artifacts, etc. Therefore, all the senior missionaries knew my father and family very well as he was often sought after for his “special” local tours. One day as I was working there, and having a great relationship with the senior missionaries, one of the elders quietly asked me to come with him. he took me to a room in the Visitor Center that was locked. Upon entering, in there were boxes upon boxes of arrow heads. He told me that during the current dig, they were uncovering all these arrow heads. The Church asked the current contracted excavator (which happened to be [L…] and his crew), to quietly, discreetly keep all artifacts they may find and store them quickly. They did not want anything leaked to the public for fear of a mass “run” to the Hill, which could potentially cause liability issues and safety concerns during excavation. Not to mention it could hold up the process and they were on a very tight deadline for completion for the upcoming Pageant. I remember how in awe I was to see so many boxes. He told me not to touch any, and that he probably shouldn’t be showing me, but he knew I would appreciate seeing these artifacts for myself, knowing how much my father and I were local historians. It wasn’t but a few days later he approached me and said that when he went to the room that morning, they were all gone. He said he believed the Church had come and quietly removed them in the middle of the night for safety reasons. We can only suspect that they have also been moved to the Granite vaults.

I say this because it INFURIATES me when the LDS scholars continue to state that the Hill Cumorah in New York could not possibly be the site of the last battle because there is no evidence. As a little girl, growing up in the area, arrow heads were as abundant as rocks. It was so common to find arrow heads that they didn’t seem any big deal. I remember collecting them and trading them with school kids as they were more popular than marbles, cards or what not.…that is how prevalent they are in that area. So, when I contacted them last year to tell them this very story, of course the response is that it is a nice story, but without evidence to back it up, it again proves nothing. RRRRRRRRR

Now, one last story as I could be here all day and night, but regarding Joseph Smith’s vision/revelation that there are more plates being stored in the Hill Cumorah. There was a close friend of my fathers a number of years ago who stumbled on a cave in the back of the Hill. He said that he stumbled on it by accident and as he ventured farther and farther inside, he realized it was quite deep and had chambers to it. Without proper equipment, he felt it would be dangerous for him to venture any farther. This man was a very well-respected man in our Stake (was on the Stake Presidency), and very well educated. He immediately contacted my father and asked if he would go with him to explore this new found cave. Of course my father jumped at the chance. A few days later he called and said it would have to be put on hold because he had to go on an emergency business trip for his company, Kodak, but upon his return, they would proceed. About a month later my father, who was chomping at the bit, was called and he once again apologized but that Kodak was moving his family out West and that he was so busy getting his affairs together that he couldn’t break away to explore at that time. However, he was going to return the following year about a month before Pageant, and that he would like them to go and explore the cave at that time. Of course my father had no choice but to agree and wait patiently. He was tempted on several occasions to go on his own as this man did give him a good description of where he had discovered the cave entrance, but my father having nothing but the best integrity of any individual I knew, felt that it would not be right to do so without him as he was the one that made the discovery.

Sure enough a year passed and he received a phone call….from this man’s wife. She sadly told my father that a few days prior he had passed away, told him of the funeral, and then told him she knew he was looking so forward to exploring that cave with him and how disappointed my father must be. of course he was more concerned for her well-being. However, after hanging up the phone he turned to my mother and said, “I NOW KNOW that the Lord does NOT want that cave to be discovered and explored.” So, even though the temptation was there the rest of his life, he felt strongly that he was not to go. I often think so much of my father for this event because he was privileged to know that there was a cave there. And, that the Lord, knowing my father’s integrity, allowed him to have this knowledge of the cave, but, he trusted my father so much with that information, knowing he would not take advantage of it. It was always the one piece of historical “evidence” that my father had always wanted to explore, discover, etc….the “one that got away” so to speak.

But, he KNEW it was protected of the Lord and like any strong, loyal, loving and faithful member of the Church, knew better to disobey.

I just felt strongly to share these experiences with you because whenever I review your presentation, I feel like I am hearing my father all over again (he passed away three years ago). Thank you so much for all the hard work you have done. Your exhaustive research! I feel strongly that you have been lead with the Spirit and that these things are truth! I know this as sure as I know the Book of Mormon and the prophet Joseph Smith to be true. 

Wayne had told me about this incredible find of the possible site for the temple across from Nauvoo…..if I had the time, the money and the freedom (have six adopted children and a husband that is deployed), I would so want to be part of this amazing event. God bless you all!! Kathy Burris [Bold, colors and italics have been added. Some names have been left out at the request of Kathy]

Kathy Alissa Burris Bio

Kathy Alissa Burris was born and raised in Palmyra, New York. She attended Brigham Young University and served a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. She worked in Human Resources for Mercer Consulting Firm and Cummins, Inc. Kathy currently resides outside of Seattle, WA. She and her husband have adopted six, special needs children from all over this beautiful planet. As two of her children are deaf, her family speak both English and American Sign Language. Kathy spent many years working at the LDS church historic sites around Palmyra, performed in the Hill Cumorah Pageant for many years and gained an unfailing testimony of the Gospel that was forged by the constant anti-Mormon sentiment prevalent in the Village of Palmyra and surrounding communities. Her father, Lee Ward, became an amateur church historian and was often asked to give visitors personal tours of the region. She was blessed to learn and attend these tours of the known and often unknown LDS and Native American historic landmarks of the Finger Lakes vicinity. Growing up in the area of the restoration of the Gospel, Kathy gained many personal experiences that solidified her testimony and love for Joseph Smith as a man and a prophet. Due to her love of history, Kathy frequently attended the local libraries where she researched the Smith Family and Palmyra history. During her studies, she became overwhelmed of the unwavering strength of the Smith family during their extensive persecution and trials while living in Palmyra. Their personal hardships helped Kathy persevere through her own maltreatment simply being a member of the Church in the Palmyra area. Kathy’s husband is an active duty officer in the United States Army. This profession has given her family the privilege of living in many areas in the United States, affording her the opportunity to present her personal experiences growing up in Palmyra to many Ward and Stake firesides and conferences over the years. Kathy is currently the Gospel Principles teacher for her ward in Eatonville, WA.

Presentation Title

“Growing Up in Palmyra NY: A Testimony of the Prophetic Calling of Joseph Smith and the Restoration” Kathy’s presentation focuses on the known and little known historic places, people and events that occurred in and around Palmyra, NY, along with the Book of Mormon events that occurred in the area of Cumorah. Kathy shares her personal stories, historic finds and artifacts relating to the Smith family and Book of Mormon, all the while instilling a powerful testimony of the divine calling of the Prophet, Joseph Smith, and the physical and spiritual events surrounding the Book of Mormon and it’s peoples.

“THEE” Stone of Hill Cumorah

From the Church video titled, “How Rare a Possession“ 2013

Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835
Stone Box and Contents Described

“The manner in which the plates were deposited: First, a hole of sufficient depth, (how deep I know not) was dug. At the bottom of this was laid a stone of suitable size, the upper surface being smooth. At each edge was placed a large quantity of cement, and into this cement, at the four edges of this stone, were placed, erect, four others, their bottom edges resting in the cement at the outer edges of the first stone. The four-last named, when placed erect, formed a box, the corners, or where the edges of the four came in contact, were also cemented so firmly that the moisture from without was prevented from entering. It is to be observed, also, that the inner surface of the four erect, or side stones was smoothe. This box was sufficiently large to admit a breast-plate, such as was used by the ancients to defend the chest, &c. from the arrows and weapons of their enemy. From the bottom of the box, or from the breast-plate, arose three small pillars composed of the same description of cement used on the edges; and upon these three pillars was placed the record of the children of Joseph, and  of a people who left the tower far, far before the days of Joseph… I must not forget to say that this box, containing the record was covered with another stone, the bottom surface being flat and the upper, crowning. But those three pillars were not so lengthy as to cause the plates and the crowning stone to come in contact. I have now given you, according to my promise, the manner in which this record was deposited; though when it was first visited by our brother, in 1823, a part of the crowning stone was visible above the surface while the edges were concealed by the soil and grass, from which circumstances you will see, that however deep this box might have been placed by Moroni at first, the time had been sufficient to wear the earth so that it was easily discovered when once directed, and yet not enough to make a perceivable difference to the passer-by.” Oliver Cowdery, “Letter VIII,” October 1835

Blogs of Evidence about Artifacts near Cumorah!