I Believe Joseph Smith
“Do you who trust and believe Joseph Smith, believe his words when he said to Emma that he was “wandering over the Plains of the Nephites?” Do you trust the fact that Joseph was camped on the Mississippi River near a small landing near the town of Atlas, Illinois? Do you indeed believe Joseph wrote said letter of June 4, 1834 as shown in the Joseph Smith papers? Was Joseph telling Emma the truth? Did he have any reason to be making something up here? Do you really think that Joseph was traveling on the very plains that the Nephites had once walked on, some 2,000 years ago? If he wasn’t why would Joseph say he was walking on those very plains of the Nephites? Was he really roving over the Nephite mounds and was it indeed a proof of the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon?
Mark Wright a Mesoamerican friend once wrote while trying to downplay Joseph’s letter spoken of above saying, “in a letter to his wife Emma dated June 4, 1834, he gave a general account of what they encountered on their excursion:” That’s about all he said. Does Mark mean generally true or generally false, or he doesn’t know? What did they encounter on their excursion? Bones of real Nephites? Did they really see physical mounds? Did Joseph really say this, “proof of [the Book of Mormon’s] divine authenticity?” Yes, and Yes. So, Joseph spoke a FACT, not a FEELING. Joseph spoke the truth and I believe Joseph, and I know that Joseph knows that the plains of the Nephites in the Book of Mormon are in Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. Letter to Emma Smith, 4 June 1834 Joseph Smith Papers
You can either believe Joseph or believe historians of BYU or intellectual professors who are more interested in staying a member of thier own group think, than they are of researching truth. If BYU and the leading LDS scientists had spent millions and millinos of dollars of research in the heartland, as they have in Mexico, we may know the truth by now.
With the help of the Heartland Group, Wayne May, Dr. John Lefgren, Mike and Betty Lafontaine, Dr. Kevin Price and many others, we ARE finally spending some independent money from donors in search of the true Zarahemla near Montrose Iowa. We are also researching the Phoenicia Replica Ship’s voyage, which proves a possible route from the Old World to Florida that very likely says it’s possible for Lehi to land in Florida in about 589 BC. in a 600 BC sailing ship. See their efforts here. zarahemla.site
Why do Intellectuals Conflate?
Rod Meldrum Asks, “Why do Intellectuals conflate when Joseph Smith does or does not have a revelation? The Mission to the Lamanites as declared and described by the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants clearly reflects that Joseph sent the missionaries to the areas revealed and directed by the Lord. The scriptures imply that not only were they to preach to the Native Americans on this North American continent, but that they are a remnant of the seed of Lehi and “Lamanites” as described in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.” Rod Meldrum Prophecies and Promises page 94
Rod Meldrum Endorses, “These Stones, Fastened to a Breastplate”
“Foundational to the Restoration is the validity of the translation of the Book of Mormon. The primary editors, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey, maintained that the process was accomplished using an instrument provided centuries in advance by the Lord for the very purpose of sacred inspired translation. Some detractors claimed that Joseph abandoned the
Lord’s instrument, the Urim and Thummim, for a more convenient stone in a hat. The Lord Himself in several revelations validated Joseph’s use of this instrument. Yet modern historians point to hostile witnesses to bolster their stone in the hat (SITH) narrative. Rian explores important new insights into this critical aspect of Church History.” Rod Meldrum Endorsement page i, “These Stones Fastened to a Breastplate” by Rian Nelson.
Mr. Meldrum continues to say, “The writers of the articles at fairlds.org and Book of Mormon Central, have concluded that perhaps these revelations were not directly from the Lord but just Joseph’s choice of words and therefore cannot be taken at face value without secondary interpretation. FAIR writes: “Many readers assume that revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants in which Joseph Smith speaks in “God’s voice” are direct “quotations” from God. Joseph didn’t claim to be hearing a voice, and he didn’t claim to be quoting God or “taking dictation.” Rather, impressions would come to him, which he would put into words. Joseph clearly did not consider them “direct quotations” from God, since he was quite happy to revise them, edit them later, etc.…This means that “Lamanites” to describe the American Indians was Joseph’s word choice.” It would appear that there is a need by FAIR to maintain a legitimacy for the Limited Geography Theory (LGT) by also writing “The few personal statements he made on Book of Mormon geography indicate that he believed it took place on a hemispheric scale, so it would be natural for him to believe that all Native Americans were pure descendants of Laman, and hence were literal “Lamanites.” See also http://en.fairmormon.org/ Lamanites in the Doctrine and Covenants” Note 54 by Rod Meldrum Prophecies and Promises
The Book of Mormon is- A REAL HISTORY!
Why are more and more people of the world claiming that Noah’s flood was fictional or just a good story? More people are saying that Adam wasn’t the first man on this earth. Why are more and more members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claiming that the Book of Mormon contains a lot of great parables that aren’t real stories, but just parables that can teach us good things? Is the Bible the Word of God? We answer yes as far as it is translated correctly. We do know however that the stories in the Bible are actual accounts of real people in real places, just as the Book of Mormon is.
Why would we believe anything else? Because Satan’s plan is in full force. Remember this is Satan’s world right now. It won’t be Christ’s until the second coming. The craftiness of man is constantly being mixed with scripture and folklore. The “Great and Spacious building” is truly coming from the halls of academia. Many intellectuals continue pointing their fingers at humble followers of God from the heights of those house’s of cards. “Who’s on the Lord’s side who?” There are “save two churches”, one that speaks the truth of the Savior and all others who teach of man and his so-called wisdom.
Educated Men
“The more I see of educated men—I mean those who are trained in the doctrines and philosophies now taught in the world, the less regard I have for them. Modern theories which are so popular today just do not harmonize with the gospel as revealed to the prophets, and it would be amusing if it were not a tragedy to see how some of our educated brethren attempt to harmonize the theories of men with the revealed word of the Lord. Thank the Lord, there is still some faith left and some members who still cherish the word of the Lord and accept the prophets. Surely the world is ripening rapidly for the destruction, and Satan has power and dominion over his own. If any are saved surely the Lord must soon come and have power over his Saints and reign in their midst, and execute ‘judgment upon Idumea, or the world.'” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., and John J. Stewart, The Life of Joseph Fielding Smith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1972], 210 – 211.)
How You Can Know the Truth of Book of Mormon Geography
“Individual members are encouraged to independently strive to receive their own spiritual confirmation of the truthfulness of Church doctrine. Moreover, the Church exhorts all people to approach the gospel not only intellectually but with the intellect and the spirit, a process in which reason and faith work together.” LDS Newsroom 4 MAY 2007
“You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.
I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson
I’m Not Neutral
As you read this recent blog of Jonathan’s, don’t be discouraged, be bold! Don’t allow fear to affect your faith! The truth shall be known and we must continue steadfastly in living and teaching the truth of the Book of Mormon to the world. The Book of Mormon is real and true and it speaks of one amazing hill Cumorah in upstate New York. The “Plains of the Nephites” as Joseph said to Emma are in Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana, in the United States of America. I don’t speak for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but I do speak of common sense and truth as I understand it. I love this Church and the Brethren are true messengers of Christ. The Church remains neutral on geography, but they didn’t say I had to be. I know the land spoken of in the Book of Mormon, is the United States of America, and I am so blessed to live in this country. May we continue to share this true message of the Book of Mormon with the world.
Only 49% of LDS believe Book of Mormon is a literal, historical account?
by Jonathan Neville
“Jana Reiss published a fascinating detail recently about the beliefs of Church members about whether the Book of Mormon is a literal, historical account:
More religiously orthodox. Utah Mormons were more devout on almost every testimony question. These differences were less pronounced on questions of basic Christian belief (God, Jesus, etc.) and more visible on specifically Mormon questions about the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and the role of apostles and prophets today. For example, there’s a twenty-point difference between the Utah Mormons who strongly agree that the Book of Mormon is a “literal, historical account” (69%) and the non-Utah Mormons who do (49%). In many cases on these testimony questions, non-Utah folks would choose the second option of “somewhat” agree rather than “strongly” agree. So it doesn’t mean they don’t believe in Mormon teachings, but they may hold them less tightly than Utah Mormons tend to.
This indicates that 1/3 of devout Utah Mormons don’t strongly believe the Book of Mormon is a literal, historical account, and less than 1/2 of non-Utah Mormons believe that.
I suspect that the difference between the Utah and non-Utah Mormons is partly attributable to Utah Mormons having fewer interactions with people who challenge their faith in the Book of Mormon; i.e., they let bias confirmation guide them.
Those who make inquiries on the Internet quickly realize that outside of a handful of M2C intellectuals and their followers, no Mesoamerican scholars see any links between actual Mayan culture and the Book of Mormon. As I’ve shown many times, the so-called “correspondences” touted by the M2C intellectuals are illusory and unpersuasive to those who are outside the M2C bubble..
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The difference could also be attributed to demographics; i.e., non-Utah Mormons are generally younger, and younger LDS are less likely to believe the Book of Mormon is a literal history because of what LDS youth are being taught in CES and at BYU.
As LDS youth go through CES and BYU and learn the Book of Mormon by referring to the fantasy map, even fewer will believe it is a literal, historical account.
BYU fantasy map that teaches the prophets are wrong about the New York Cumorah This map is the work of fine scholars at BYU who claim it is the best representation of the geography-related passages in the text. Of course, they really mean it’s the best representation of their M2C-driven interpretation; other interpretations of the text fully support the teachings of the prophets.
You can read about the map here:
Church members must realize that these fine scholars also teach that the prophets are wrong about the New York Cumorah. That’s why, in their map, they place Cumorah at the upper part of this fantasy map, as far from the real-world New York as possible.
This BYU map has been taught for several years now. Every new student has to learn this map in their introductory Book of Mormon classes. CES uses a similar map.
My question is, how could any trusting youth in the Church believe the Book of Mormon is a literal, historical account when his/her CES/BYU teachers claim a fantasy map is the best fit for the geography?
Especially when these CES/BYU teachers are telling the youth that the prophets are wrong?
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The M2C intellectuals, who claim to have been hired by the prophets to guide the Church, do, in fact, seem to be guiding the Church through their influence on the youth.
The inevitable result of this course will be rejection of the historicity of the Book of Mormon. What impact will that have? I’ll discuss that in an upcoming post.
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Meanwhile, let’s consider what course we’re on.
The de-literalizing of the Book of Mormon became apparent to me when I took a closer look at the lesson manuals, the CES/BYU curriculum, the Saints book, the visitors centers, etc. These all repudiate the teachings of the prophets about the New York Cumorah. I attribute all of those to the M2C Church employees.
True, members of the Quorum of the Twelve do approve all of this, at some level. But they can only review what the employees show them, and the employees only show them M2C approved material.
So far, not one Apostle or President of the Church has repudiated or even questioned the teachings of prior prophets about the New York Cumorah.
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Lately, lds.org has linked to the groups who are promoting the fictional fantasy maps of the Book of Mormon. At BYU Education Week, they offer courses in Lessons from the Book of Mormon and Lessons from the Chronicles of Narnia back-to-back.
And it has been 40 years since anyone speaking in General Conference declared the Book of Mormon is a real history.
When I go back and re-read the conference talks and other messages, they mostly emphasize the content of the book, not it’s historical reality. The parables in the Bible are discussed in the same way; i.e., stories that teach true principles.
Of course we all stipulate that the message of the Book of Mormon is more important than its history, but it is the literal, divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon–its historicity–that makes it a miraculous manifestation of God’s involvement with the world. As an inspired parable, it may have power like the Biblical parables, but the power of the book is, in my view, greatly diminished.
The Church History Department is instructing their staff and volunteers to tell people that Joseph never actually used the plates; instead, he kept them covered with a cloth while he read the words on a stone in a hat. Now Skousen and Carmack are saying Joseph didn’t even translate the plates, an idea that is getting zero pushback from Church leaders and a warm welcome from the intellectuals, in part because it corroborates their view that Joseph Smith was merely an ignorant farm-boy speculator who misled the Church about the New York Cumorah.
People tell me that when they ask Church leaders about Book of Mormon geography, the standard response is “We don’t talk about that.” That’s also the response missionaries are instructed to give whenever the question arises.
I realize the historicity doesn’t matter to those who already want to believe; bias confirmation always conquers lack of evidence. I’m more interested in the people who want at least some touchstone with reality.
During his lifetime, Joseph Smith emphasized the literal, historical reality of the Book of Mormon. He helped Oliver Cowdery write Letter VII, which teaches it was a fact that the final battles of the Nephites and Jaredites took place in the valley west of the hill Cumorah in western New York and that the repository of Nephite records (Mormon 6:6) was in the same hill. Joseph endorsed Letter VII and made sure it was widely distributed so all Church members could read it.
Today, few Church members have ever heard of Letter VII.
Instead, they’re learning that the Book of Mormon took place in a fictional fantasyland.
Does anyone care?”
Jonathan Neville (italics and pictures added)-Book of Mormon Wars
Witnesses about Book of Mormon Geography
“The final struggles between Nephites and Lamanites were waged in the vicinity of the Hill Cumorah, in what is now the State of New York, resulting in the destruction of the Nephites as a nation, about 400 A.D. The last Nephite representative was Moroni, who, wandering for safety from place to place, daily expecting death from the victorious Lamanites, wrote the concluding parts of the Book of Mormon, and hid the record in Cumorah. It was this same Moroni who, as a resurrected being, gave the records into the hands of Joseph Smith in the present dispensation.” James Talmage Articles of Faith
“The United States is the promised land foretold in the Book of Mormon—a place where divine guidance directed inspired men to create the conditions necessary for the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.” Elder L. Tom Perry Ensign Dec. 2012
“The Lord gave a divine promise to the ancient inhabitants of this favored country (the United States): ‘Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ” (Ether 2:12).
Our Heavenly Father inspired the leaders of…the United States of America, that they might together, under His direction, having been raised up by God for the purpose, establish the Constitution of this country and…Bill of Rights, that by the year of our Lord 1805 [there would be] a climate where our Heavenly Father could send into this period of mortality a choice spirit who would be known as Joseph Smith, Jr.” Teachings of Thomas S. Monson by Thomas S. Monson 2011 (Ordained an Apostle, 1963; ordained President of the Church, 2008)
