I do not believe how the Witness Movie done by The Interpreter Foundation headed by Daniel Peterson, makes any sense at all about Joseph’s method of translation, and I am confused at why it seems to have so much support in the church we love? The simple answer is; the editors are the Historians, Intellectuals, and people who either make mistakes or purposely make their opinion seem smart, as to impress the Brethren or their peers. [That is my Opinion] And as Jonathan Neville says, “They were written by a committee, published anonymously, and are subject to revision at any time without notice, and omit/edit original sources.
Stove-Pipe Hat
In my opinion Joseph DID NOT use a peep stone in a hat to translate, and especially Joseph didn’t use a stove-pipe hat. Where did that come from? Do we even know if Joseph owned a stove pipe hat? Did you at age 22 have a formal hat? You probably had a baseball cap or sun bonnet and it makes sense Joseph would have a farmers hat for working on the farm. Who started the rumor he had a stove pipe hat? Is that what Whitmer’s and Emma and Martin called it? Or did they simply say hat? I’m not trying to make the hat a big deal, but it does not ring true to me.
Covered Plates
According to Historians, the plates were covered during translation. You can’t translate with covered plates. Why do they say Joseph didn’t even look at the plates? Because, that would disprove their idea that the words to be written down were found on the stone. They say Joseph dictated words from an unknow source. Think about it. Who gave the words on the stone? Christ? Nephi? An Angel? Historians want us to believe that? Why did Nephi and Mormon work so hard to write on and protect the plates, if Joseph would have never needed them? Silly and sad again.
Prophets Opinions of Method of Translation
Our wonderful Prophet and apostles are Prophets, Seers, and Revelators without a doubt. They receive revelation about doctrine and other vital words from the Lord. However, these Special Witnesses have opinions and thoughts that aren’t revelation or doctrine, as they share valued opinion about non-doctrinal issues. The Brethren cannot and will not tell us what to say or think. We have free agency and our Church protects that right more than any other organization.
Am I wrong to say that if the Prophet is speaking as a neighbor, friend or acquaintance, is he always speaking revelation? Of course not. Do the Brethren know everything? No they are more near to perfect than most people on earth, but they don’t know everything. But, they should be listened too definitely. We don’t need to be commanded in all things do we? No!
Personal Revelation
Brigham Young said, “I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. … Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.” (JD, vol. 9, p. 150.)”
Russell M. Nelson
“I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson
The method of translation is not known as doctrine but it was accomplished by the “gift and power of God.” That is what we testify of, correct? It’s the same with geography of where the Book of Mormon events happened. Location is not doctrine, but the Book of Mormon is true based upon our spiritual witness. The Brethren say they are neutral about the exact method of translation and the exact location of Book of Mormon events. It’s the same with Evolution, DNA, Age of the Earth, and how old are dinosaurs?. Many things the Brethren don’t know or don’t share with us unless they are necessary for our salvation.
Speaking about the method of Translation in a video from Harmony, President Russell M. Nelson said, “Quite miraculous really, we have through the gift and power of God, we have a lot of suggestions about how it was done…” President Nelson then in this same video demonstrated with a hat in his hand and spoke about the possible use of, as he said, “Urim and Thummim Seer Stones” as he is quoted as saying. [One sentence no pause] The video is here and titled. “The Book of Mormon Is Tangible Evidence of the Restoration.
Elder Russell M. Nelson also said this. “As Oliver Cowdery testified a few years later: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated *… the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’ (JS—H 1:75n. The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights.” A Treasured Testament 1993 By Elder Russell M. Nelson Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
The method of Translation is not a question about doctrine but about belief or opinion, just as the question about geography. Personally I believe the Book of Mormon events happened beginning in the Heartland of the United States, and the translation method was done with the three instruments or artifacts found in the Hill Cumorah. Namely, gold plates, breastplate, and interpreters or spectacles.
The Brethren don’t often concern themselves with non-essential information. Doctrine and special witness of the Savior is most important to them, and it should be. Our wonderful Prophet and Apostles depend on historians and other quorums to research and answer historical questions, as they trust them as I do most of them, to share accurate information.
No one except Joseph, Oliver, and Lucy Mack Smith had ever seen the breastplate or the spectacles. So, researchers could only share what their interpretation is of the information they have found. Many historians rarely look outside the box and there is always a hat or a rock nearby, so that makes it easy to demonstrate. Many historians also like to come up with new theories. Our Prophet is just re-sharing many things the historians have shared with him. That’s why the Brethren rarely say exactly how the translation happened as it is not revelation, so it really doesn’t concern them. I suppose it shouldn’t matter to most of us, as the spiritual confirmation that Joseph used the Gift and Power of God is the best answer. However, I enjoy searching for additional answers as Moroni said, “ye may know the truth of all things.”
The stone in the hat is not a fact but many historians and Church videos show it as the “New Narrative.” Nowhere in the scriptures does it even speak about it. Church Historians have developed consensus in their progressive thoughts, and they don’t like the traditionalist view. It’s just like the opinion that there is consensus that man causes global warming, so the intellectuals all agree on their non provable THEORY, which I don’t believe many causes global warming.
First Hand Witnesses
The stone in a hat is a theory. The first hand witnessed Joseph and Oliver are the best resource. Our scriptures tell us many times Joseph used “these two stones fastened to a breastplate” JSH 1:35. And Oliver Cowdery in scripture said, “Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.” JSH 1:75n. Latter-day Saints who testify the Scriptures are true, should be able to agree that Joseph used those items which were in the stone box at the Hill Cumorah. Plates, Breastplate, and Interpreters.
Book of Mormon Hard Evidence Proper TranslationDownload above a pdf of 9 scriptures and 7 other quotes that will help you see the translation was with the Interpreters.
There were only two people that saw the breastplate and glasses. Lucy Mack Smith saw and felt them both under a linen. Oliver helped unsuccessfully to translate and possibly saw these items then. Joseph I’m sure had permission for Oliver to see the Interpreters. Joseph possibly had a quick jacket or shirt near-by, if he need to cover the breastplate for other people. [See it hanging on the wall in the painting above?] Joseph could also use Alvin’s box [seen above], to hide the articles.
Anne Marie has done an outstanding job depicting these details in her wonderful, one of a kind painting. She can be reached at [email protected]
When Cowdery returned to Church membership in 1848 he spoke to an Iowa conference. His words there were recorded by Reuben Miller: “I wrote with my own pen the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet as he translated it by the gift and power of God by means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by that book, holy interpreters. I beheld with my eyes and handled with my hands the gold plates from which it was translated. I also beheld the Interpreters. That book is true. … I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet.”
The Interpreter on TikTok
“Today let’s look at one way the Interpreter teaches SITH. [Stone in the Hat]
Last year the Interpreter produced and released the Witnesses movie. It grossed around $900,000 in as many as 90 theaters. https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt13820428/?ref_=bo_se_r_1
The Interpreter helpfully extracted parts of the Witnesses movie and put them on tiktok. Today we’ll look at a clip of “Translating the Book of Mormon.”
If you didn’t see the movie, you have to see this excerpt to believe it. You can see it on tiktok, here: https://www.tiktok.com/@interpreterfoundation/video/7110750617349508395
The comments on tiktok provide a useful survey of how people are dealing with SITH.
The title here announces that we’re going to get to see Joseph and Oliver “translating the Book of Mormon.”
But instead of the translation, they show Joseph reading words out of a hat!
When you watch the clip, notice how even Oliver Cowdery looks dubious.
No historians have produced a single historical account to support this depiction. There is no Martin Harris, David Whitmer, or Emma Smith witnessing this event. Joseph and Oliver both explained that, contrary to this depiction, Joseph translated the plates with the Urim and Thummim.
This scene is pure fiction. But, because it comes from the SITH sayers at the Interpreter, it is presented not only as fact, but as the only acceptable fact.
No wonder the rising generation is so confused.
Let’s look at the comments. It’s fascinating to see how thoroughly the SITH narrative has taken hold despite the obvious problems with SITH. The SITH sayers state as facts the philosophies of the scholars.” Jonathan Neville, [color and italics added]
The Interpreter on TikTok
Special Articles of the Translation- Shirt, Hat, Linen
Lucy Mack Smith said, “That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed nothing more nor less than a Urim and Thummim by which the angel manifested those things to him that were shown him in, vision; by which also he could at any time ascertain the approach of danger, either to himself or the record, and for this cause he kept these things constantly about his person.” Lucy Mack Smith.
Read in the Joseph Smith papers how Joseph, while digging a ditch in Macedon, he quickly attached the glasses to the breastplate and saw Emma coming to visit him.https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/61#full-transcript
I propose Joseph wore the breastplate under his shirt as Lucy said, “constantly” on his person. A thin rod connected the spectacles to the breastplate and the hat blocked Emma’s view. The plates were partially covered by a linen so Joseph could see 90% of them and translate by leaning over slightly, and through the glasses Joseph saw the plates, and using his own mind and thought bank, and with the Interpreters he translated by the Gift and Power of God. This to me is very feasible. See my book here
So Lucy in her journal of 1845 said Joseph, her son, kept these things, [breastplate, and spectacles] “constantly” on his person. That is a huge comment she makes twice in her journal. What does constantly mean? During the day and night, during lunch, and out on the farm, and constantly. Is that possible? Yes! Joseph would quickly place the rod and glasses in a pouch that was at the back of the breastplate close to Joseph’s breast as you see in the picture here.
Lucy continues, “Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did, I should be destroyed”. JSH 1:42
William Smith’s description: “A silver bow ran over one stone, under the other, around [sic] over that one and under the first in the shape of a horizontal figure 8…[T]hey were much too large for Joseph and he could only see through one at a time using sometimes one and sometimes the other.” These stones, he continued, “were attached to the breastplate by a rod which was fastened at the outer shoulde[r] edge of the breastplate and to the edge of the silver bow.” (Tyrell Givens, By the Hand of Mormon, p.22)
Because of the commandment of the Lord to not show the plates, spectacles or breastplate to anyone, I believe this may be how Joseph kept that directive. Here is more detail.
During translation I propose a farmer’s hat not a stove pipe hat as nothing more than a prop to block out Emma’s vision, so Joseph could keep his promise to not show the breastplate (under his shirt), or the spectacles hidden from view by the hat, but not in the hat; and the plates lay partially covered so Emma could not see them from her angle of view. Yes, the Prophet of the Lord kept his promise not to show anyone these articles the best way he knew how with his shirt, the hat, and the linen; these became special articles of the translation and a special part of the” Gift and Power of God”. How marvelous are these spectacles as “I can see “everything” as Joseph said to Josiah Stowell as described by Lucy Mack Smith. I know the title of the art I had done by Anne Marie Oborn, for me is, “Mother”, I have got the Key” as Lucy continued to say, “Joseph seems to like the glasses far more than the plates.” Joseph said, “Mother, I can see anything” This Key; (Spectacles) unlocked the Heart; (Breastplate) so Joseph by the “Gift and Power of God”, could translate this special book for a witness to the world. How I love the Book of Mormon, another witness of Jesus Christ.
“Then he went on to tell the length and width and thickness of the plates, and said he, “they appear to be gold.” But he seemed to think more of the glasses or the Urim and Thummim than he did of the plates, for, says he, “I can see anything; they are marvelous.”
If a stone had words appear, that means someone (Angel, Christ, Nephite or who?) is having Joseph dictate, not translate. That would mean Joseph only read what he was told. That is not translation. David Whitmer, who was never a transcriber and one who never saw Joseph translate, said a piece of parchment would appear with words that would appear. Many intellectuals also say Joseph never looked at the plates while translating. Then why did Nephi and Mormon keep and protect the records? It doesn’t make sense. I believe Joseph really TRANSLATED an unknown language to English.
Stone Box Contents
This is what was in the stone box at Cumorah? There is no hat, or peep stone. Joseph had a stone or two but they were never used to translate. These two stones came from the Brother of Jared. How can anyone doubt that THESE TWO STONES [JSH 1:35] were used to translate, not a silly peep stone. I mean no harm to others who believe, but my method “just makes sense.” Believe what you may, but the scriptures are clear on the proper method.
Ether Witnesses of the Interpreters and the Jaredite Record
27 And the Lord said unto him: Write these things and them up; and I will show them in mine own due time unto the children of men.
28 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded him that he should seal up the two which he had received, and show them not, until the Lord should show them unto the children of . Ether 27-28
4 Behold, I have written upon these plates the which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.
5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the , according to the commandment of the Lord. Ether 4:4-5
