I have shared information like this before. I don’t do it to create debate or to say who is wrong or right. I do it so you are aware of some of the belief systems of some our the Saints in various apologetic environments.

Understanding Apologetics

Apologetics cannot prove that the Church is true, but it can show you answers that may help you in knowing the Church is true, especially through personal revelation. Our Heartland group owned by Rod and Tonya Meldrum, called Foundation for Indigineous Research and Mormonism,(FIRM), along with FAIR, Book of Mormon Central, The Interpreter, More Good Foundation etc., are similar organizations made up of great spiritual people who love the Lord and the Book of Mormon. All claim to have answers to many challenging or even difficult gospel questions that may encourage or assist people to better understand the truthfulness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. No Apologetic organization speaks in behalf of, or for the Church, however. Doctrine in the Church only comes from the Prophet and Apostles who all organizations support.

The purpose of LDS Apologetics is to provide solid or well-reasoned information that makes sense in answering supposed church related difficult questions, so that a conclusive decision of the truth of the Gospel and Church can be determined by study and prayer through the Spirit. The Tag line for the FIRM Foundation has always been, “Faithfully Exploring Relevant LDS Topics of Our Time.”

Austin Farrer, an English Anglican philosopher, theologian, and biblical scholar wrote, in the mid-19th century, “Though argument does not create conviction, lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish.”

Truth and Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned. A personal witness from the Holy Ghost must be the primary evidence for the reality of God, the divinity of Christ and the authority of the scriptures. “No man can say that the Jesus is the Lord,” wrote Paul, (I Corinthians 12:3) “but by the Holy Ghost.” Faithful, reasoned and rational argument, however, can open hearts and minds to the witness of the Spirit. As I mentioned earlier, apologetics cannot prove that the Church is true, but it can show you answers that may help you in knowing the Church is true, especially through personal revelation. This is the goal of the FIRM Foundation.

Personal Revelation

As our dear Prophet said, “Does God really want to speak to you? Yes! “As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course … as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.

You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.

I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson

“No one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.”

Neutral vs. Saying Your Neutral

Those of us who believe in the Heartland theory are not Neutral on Geography. We believe the events of the Book of Mormon happened in North America in the Book of Mormon Promised Land, of the United States, and some of us are “for profit” as a business earning enough to continue to share information with our followers.

Book of Mormon Central, The Interpreter, FairLDS or FairMormon, Meridian Magazine, and many other Apologetic Groups mostly focus on and believe in the Mesoamerican theory of geography in the Book of Mormon. The reason they act neutral is because the Church is neutral. We have no problem with the Church’s stand, but many of these Apologetic groups are not being honest, in my opinion.

The reason I feel they promote only Mesoamerica is their very websites say so. They won’t allow any articles or speaking about the Heartland theory on their website. They don’t want live debates with us and they won’t invite us to speak at any of their events. We have invited many other apologetic groups to Heartland events and heard from some of those who believe in the Mesoamerican theory at our events, sSuch as Martin Tanner, Jim Gee, Rick Bennett, Craig Ostler, and many others.

Many of the apologetic groups mission statements, contain information that their focus is in Mesoamerica. We don’t have a problem with these Apologists to focus on Mesoamerica as that is their agency. We just wish they would be more honest in their work or ideas about their position. If you ask many members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints if these various Apologists are neutral they would probably say yes. Why else would the Church have links on their websites that link to these various apologetic sites? Most of these Apologists are also listed as Non-Profit companies. That simply means all the money that is donated to them, they can use it for research and/or large salaries for those who are not officially employees, but volunteers.

We love these brethren and their websites have a lot of very valuable gospel material. I use them regularly to get their opinions on many things not including geography, the method of translation of the plates, or the hill Cumorah being in Mexico somewhere. We love our Church just as we know those who believe in the Mesoamerican theory love the Church.

New Name for Book of Mormon Central

I would also like you to be aware that Book of Mormon Central is now Scripture Central. Here is a video from Kirk Magleby. https://youtu.be/oaQ4-Mm2bLw

In his first statement he says he is, “Volunteering as Executive Director of Scripture Central.” I know Mr. Magleby a little, and he seems like a very nice man. 

At times some of the board members or executives of these apologetic groups say they are volunteers which in my opinion is a “code word” for saying, We receive a nice paycheck from great foundations and non profit companies, that I volunteer for.

That is like me saying, I work as a volunteer for Rod Meldrum’s “For Profit” Firm Foundation, and I receive a little compensation for helping him. The compensation part does not matter in my opinion either for myself or for Mr. Magleby. My point is, Mr. Magleby is earing much more than I am as a volunteer.  How do I know, because a 501-C3 has to disclose salaries and compensation. I guess we are both “Volunteers” earning money, correct? Why does Mr. Magleby and others have to pretend that they make no money or very little as a volunteer? 

As you look at a new non profit that is helping them, called Charis Legacy, it seems obvious to me that Book of Mormon Central has a continual supply of money, as I know the quality of their websites, how many they have, and their ability to research material. They are in many languages and reach far and wide. They have a first class organization that helps many Church Members find answers to many questions. Overall they are wonderful apologetics, and great members of the Church who have great information, and as I say, I love about 85% of their research and information.

Here is some information about their new supporter, Charis Legacy Foundation. They seem to be a good organization with many good supporters. I am simply letting you know that the flow of money is so large compared to the FIRM Foundation, that there are many things they can do, that we just don’t have the resources being a, “for profit” business. Rod does not desire to become a non-profit at this time, and we don’t expect large donations, as donors can’t write-off their donations to us. That is fine as I see Rod as a very honest and wonderful man who loves the Lord and is not caught up in anything more than earning enough money to live comfortably, and continue to give back into his business of bringing forth the Book of Mormon to as many as possible. He is a fantastic person whom I admire.

I Disagree with BOMC

As I say above, there are the overwhelming ideas I agree with other apologetics, but I disagree with them on things such as: geography, translation methods of Joseph using a stone in a hat, ideas on evolution and creation, two Hill Cumorah’s, the Angel Moroni appearing to Mary Whitmer, ability to practice the Law of Moses in Mesoamerica, that “snow” does not exist in the Book of Mormon, that Lamanites have to have a written history, that the River Sidon must flow north, that Zarahemla in D&C 125 is not a revelation from Joseph Smith, that Lehi sailed east from Oman and landed in Guatemala, that the Hopewell culture could not parallel the Nephite culture, and many other things.

With most of these questions, it is up to you and I to decide for ourselves the answers by personal revelation, if we even desire or not to worry about these things, as none of this pertains to doctrine from the Church anyway. I only object that many at these apologetic groups will not allow a side by side dialogue with us and treat us like we are inferior to their information.

I also know that Book of Mormon Central does not like that we are called Book of Mormon “Evidence”, as we have heard them say this. But you will notice below in their quotes, they want to let you know about “evidences”, they call it. They say to us that you have “no evidence” (that the BofM occurred in North America), and we shouldn’t say that, but they sure love the word don’t they? This is a petty thing, and I guess it is even silly to speak about, but it is just an opinion of mine. I pray both sides may love one another as I strive to build and uplift and not tear down.

Evidence Articles by Book of Mormon Central

“To help make these evidences more accessible and understandable to the general public, Evidence Central has begun the formidable process of identifying, categorizing, and helpfully summarizing this substantial body of research. Part of this effort has involved the creation of well-documented and richly illustrated articles (each one referred to as an “Evidence”) that summarizes a particular evidence related to the Restoration. These short articles strive to accurately and simply describe the nature and value of each Evidence without overstating its significance.

In September of 2020, Evidence Central launched by publishing approximately 100 Evidences, all of which pertain to the Book of Mormon. We have plans to eventually publish many hundreds of Evidences, and to expand their scope to include Joseph Smith’s other revelations about the ancient world. We also plan to highlight Evidences pertaining to the divinely-instituted organization that Joseph Smith was called by God to restore to the earth—The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” Book of Mormon Central

Wow 9 times they use the word Evidence in just two paragraphs. Sorry, it is trivial, but if you knew the many times we have been ridiculed for saying this name, it would amaze you. I digress.

FIRM Foundation – Mission Statement

“The FIRM Foundation (Foundation for Indigenous Research and Mormonism) is an organization dedicated to showing forth evidence for the Book of Mormon in order to provide The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint members with well-researched information enabling them to powerfully and respectfully defend its historicity and thus its truthfulness – with the ultimate goal of bringing people unto Christ.

The FIRM Foundation believes The Book of Mormon events in the New World occurred in North America in the Heartland of the United States. This is the reason many call us “Heartlanders.” The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral on this subject. Our information is based on our own personal beliefs in regard to: archaeology, anthropology, text of the Book of Mormon, distances, geology, and we believe the many rivers were the highways of the ancients including the Nephites.

No information or opinions of the FIRM Foundation represent The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The owner and employees are members of the LDS Church and in good standing. FIRM Foundation is not neutral in our opinion about the geography of the Book of Mormon.” Rod Meldrum

“I know the Brethren of the Church take a neutral position on the geography of the Book of Mormon. I love and support the Brethren. For you and me to take a neutral stand is not required. The Lord told us to read and study, and in the promise to Moroni, He said we may know the truth of ALL things, and I feel that could include knowing the location of the Book of Mormon events if that is desirable. I believe knowledge of the Spirit and of the head, are both important in learning truth. As Elder Holland in 2018 said, “truth borne by the Holy Spirit comes with, in effect, two manifestations, two witnesses if you will—the force of fact as well as the force of feeling.”

I think there is importance in the Brethren being neutral on Geography, Evolution and other difficult issues. They want us to gain our own witness to secondary information. They have given us sound doctrine and that is what we should focus on. I know through the Spirit that the Book of Mormon is true. However, I love to seek for other truth and as Moroni has said “I may know the truth of all things.

I believe our friend Jonathan Neville has shared some great information below in regard the beliefs of Book of Mormon Central and others like them including The Interpreter, FairMormon, Meridian Magazine and others. I want you to have some information that I think is good to explain the various ideas. Again we love these other groups and pray that we may all love each other and the Lord.” Rian Nelson

Neutrality at BMC by Jonathan Neville

Here’s the Dilemma “I fully share the objectives of Book of Mormon Central (BMC) in terms of sharing the Book of Mormon. I love all the people associated with BMC and its affiliates. They’re all wonderful people. I support about 90% of what they do and wish I could support the rest. However, I think their focus on M2C undermines their objectives for all the reasons I’ve explained.

At the very least, they should represent all faithful views and interpretations of the Book of Mormon, but they refuse. They have earned the nickname Book of Mormon Central America because that’s the only theory of geography they permit on their web site. They continue to censor alternative faithful views.

Like its predecessor FARMS, BMC is the antithesis of diversity and neutrality, but for obvious reasons they want everyone to think they follow the Church’s policy of neutrality on Book of Mormon geography issues, as well as the policy against contention.

Let’s see what the reality is.

As always, I’m eager to correct any errors in this material, so if there are any, please let me know by email.
_____

First, let’s review the history of M2C.

M2C originated over 100 years ago with the work of RLDS scholars, including Stebbins and Hills. You can see the 1917 map by Hills to the left. Some details in the map are different from some modern M2C maps, but the Hills map clearly shows Cumorah/Ramah in Central America.

Cumorah was part of the contest between the RLDS and LDS, as I discussed in more detail here.

In the late 1800s, the President of the RLDS Church was Joseph Smith III, the son of Joseph Smith Jr. RLDS missionaries were coming to Utah and converting LDS members to their church. By one count, 3,000 LDS in Utah converted to the RLDS church.

In response, Brigham Young called Joseph F. Smith, the 27-year-old son of Hyrum Smith, to the First Presidency, where he served the remainder of his life.

Joseph Smith III and Joseph F. Smith were first cousins. Their rivalry was partly doctrinal but also familial.

RLDS scholars developed M2C about the time that LDS President Joseph F. Smith focused on the New York Cumorah. As editor of the Improvement Era in 1899, President Smith republished Letter VII, reaffirming President Cowdery’s declaration that it was a fact that the hill Cumorah in New York was the scene of the final battles of the Nephites and Jaredites, as well as the location of Mormon’s depository of Nephite records.

After he became President of the Church, Joseph F. Smith wanted to purchase the Hill Cumorah in New York. RLDS scholars were saying, in effect, “go ahead, but the real Cumorah is in Mexico.”

Over the objections of LDS Church leaders such as Joseph Fielding Smith, LDS scholars adopted the RLDS theory. Today’s M2C is the result.
_____

The clearest statement of the philosophical basis for M2C was provided by Dr. John Sorenson, author of Mormon’s Codex and other M2C books and articles found in BMC’s archive. Original in blue, my comments in red.

What may startle some about this situation is that most of what Joseph Smith said or implied about geography indicates that he did not understand or was ambiguous about the fact, as it turns out, that Mesoamerica was the particular setting for Nephite history. 

 

Notice: Brother Sorenson announces that the Mesoamerican setting is a fact. 

 

That is how M2C intellectuals define “neutrality,” and that’s what “neutrality” means to their followers, employees, and donors. They are “neutral” only about where in Mesoamerica the Book of Mormon took place, but they insist it could have taken place only somewhere in Mesoamerica.

 

Continuing:

Until he encountered the Stephens’s book, Joseph gave no hint that he was aware that such a limited area with a distinctive civilized culture even existed in the Americas. Even with Stephens’s material in mind, he made no more than a passing attempt to relate the Book of Mormon’s story to the newly-found ruins. And in the long run, the little blip on the Latter-day Saints’ mental screen caused by the explorer’s book faded as the mistaken folk view reasserted its dominance.

 

Notice what he’s saying here. All the prophets and apostles who declared and affirmed that Cumorah was in New York were misleading members of the Church with a “mistaken folk view.”

 

That’s the essence of M2C. You can ask anyone associated with Book of Mormon Central what they think about the teachings of the prophets about Cumorah. After trying to evade the question, they will eventually admit they agree with Brother Sorenson.

They might try to persuade you that they are “neutral” because they disagree with Brother Sorenson about which river is Sidon, or exactly where in Mesoamerica a particular city or feature is located, but they agree with everything he wrote in the quotation above. That’s the essence of M2C.

 

(For the Sorenson reference and other commentary, go to http://mormonmesomania.blogspot.com/2018/05/what-may-startle-somenoel-reynolds.html  )

_____

 
Now, let’s look at the logo.

 

We have Hebrew (Old Testament).
We have Egyptian (Book of Abraham)
We have Greek (New Testament).
And we have Mayan (Book of Mormon).

That’s as non-neutral as it gets. The logo is a carryover from the old FARMS, which was also 100% M2C, as discussed below.

This logo, heavily promoted with millions of dollars, announces to the world that there is no room for an interpretation of the Book of Mormon outside Mesoamerica.
_____
Now, the people involved.

We love all these brothers and sisters. They are all wonderful, faithful, smart, etc. But they all have one thing in common: complete fidelity to M2C. Some of them are active in social media, pushing M2C aggressively. Maybe we’ll look at some examples of their work, but anyone following this topic knows what I’m referring to.

It is difficult to find more dogmatic groupthink than what exists among the BMC staff. I tried really hard, though, and came across this group.

 

Actually, there was more “neutrality” about President Trump among the Democrats at Jim Clyburn’s recent fish fry than there is “neutrality” about Book of Mormon geography at BMC.

_____

 

The BMC editorial position, demonstrated in their archive as well as their regular Kno-Why series, focuses purely on M2C.

 

They oppose the New York Cumorah at every opportunity because they equate M2C with the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. It’s M2C or bust. This explains why they think the stakes are so high, and why M2C promoters have such an emotional attachment to M2C.

This also explains why so many people (including BYU professors) lose their faith in the historicity of the Book of Mormon when they realize M2C is based on circular reasoning and illusory evidence (as well as the repudiation of the teachings of the prophets). Long ago, Joseph Fielding Smith warned that M2C would cause members of the Church to become confused and disturbed in their faith in the Book of Mormon. BMC rejects his warning, along with the teachings of all the prophets and apostles who have taught that the Hill Cumorah is in New York. BMC coordinates its M2C messages with several affiliates who also promote the same M2C message, including Fairmormon and the Interpreter. https://bookofmormoncentral.org/content/affiliates

 

The M2C editorial position is at the core of their approach to the Book of Mormon. BMC and the Interpreter had their origins in FARMS, an organization that was known for its dogmatism and aggressive apologetics. The BMC archive contains some of the FARMS material.

 

Let’s look at how M2C is incorporated in BMC’s official policies.

_____

 

This is from the BMC web page (https://bookofmormoncentral.org/about)

The legal organization behind Book of Mormon Central is the Book of Mormon Archaeological Forum, Inc., a 501 (c) 3 non-profit public charity chartered in the state of Utah in 2004.

When people donate to BMC, they are really donating to BMAF. BMC donors are supporting the dissemination of M2C, as we discussed here. 

And that’s perfectly fine, so long as they know what they’re doing.

For decades, BMAF’s mission statement read:

If you can’t read it, it says:

The Book of Mormon Archaeological Forum (BMAF) is a 501(c)(3) not for profit organization dedicated as an open forum for presentation, dissemination, and discussion of research and evidences regarding Book of Mormon archaeology, anthropology, geography and culture within a Mesoamerican context.  Our goals are (1) to increase understanding of the Book of Mormon as an ancient Mesoamerican codex, (2) to correlate and publish works of LDS and CofC scholars, (3) to help promote unity and cooperation among scholars and students of the Book of Mormon, and (4) to provide a forum where responsible scholars can present current ideas and discoveries.

After I publicized this mission statement, they changed the statement to what it currently reads:

MISSION STATEMENT

The Book of Mormon Archaeological Forum (BMAF) is a 501(c)(3) not for profit organization dedicated as an open forum for presentation, dissemination, and discussion of research and evidences regarding Book of Mormon archaeology, anthropology, geography and culture within Mesoamerican and other ancient contexts.

Even when they made this change, they could not bring themselves to endorse neutrality. The “other ancient contexts” they refer to here are in the Old World. They are not referring to anywhere in the Americas other than Mesoamerica. This is evident in all their work. Anyone can see it for themselves.

BMC continues “to increase understanding of the Book of Mormon as an ancient Mesoamerican codex.” You can see it in the archive, their Kno-Whys, their social media work, their firesides, their coordinated efforts with other members of the M2C citation cartel, etc.

I’ve mentioned a few examples previously in this blog, which you can see by searching for “KnowWhy,” “Kno-Why” or “no-wise” in the search box. For example:

http://www.bookofmormoncentralamerica.com/2018/01/no-wise-395-on-david-whitmer.html

Here’s another official statement from BMC

Book of Mormon Central Policy on Book of Mormon Geography – June 2016

Book of Mormon Central at this time is officially geography neutral. We seek deep understanding of the Book of Mormon text. We hope diligent students work together to achieve working consensus on the geographic correlation issue. Until that happens, our selection of exegetical material is guided by these principles:

• In our hierarchy of evidence, the text itself is primary because it is closest to the divine.
• If profound and compelling location-specific insights shed light on the text, we highlight these regardless of their geographic provenience.
• We favor authors with credentials in their areas of interest.
• We favor formally published works from reputable presses.

We welcome good work from any geographic persuasion that is responsive to these principles.

This is all window-dressing for Church leaders and donors. I’ve discussed the implementation here:

http://www.bookofmormoncentralamerica.com/2016/04/book-of-mormon-central-america-sigh.html
_____

I’ll conclude this post with another official statement and its implementation by a BMC employee who demonstrates the deep emotional attachment BMC has with M2C.

Book of Mormon Central Social Media Policy

Joseph Smith emphatically taught, “Friendship is one of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism. [It is designed] to revolutionize and civilize the world, and cause wars and contentions to cease and men to become friends and brothers” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 316).  At Book of Mormon Central we strive to represent the very best of professional and personal characteristics in our private and public lives.  The message of the Book of Mormon is so compelling and transformative that we have no need to engage in any form of negative public discourse, including in our professional and private social media accounts.  Our tremendous work is our defense.  We let it speak for itself.  Diligently pursuing our mission is the most powerful and convincing way we can answer any contrary individuals or organizations.

To see how that policy is implemented, look at the following social media post by a BMC employee, one that Dan Peterson at the Interpreter endorses. (We aren’t putting any of Dan’s posts here because, technically, he’s not listed under BMC’s directory.)

Below is a quote from an apologetic who I will leave anonymous.

“You have abundantly proven that you are not somebody who can have a rational argument in good faith with an “M2C intellectual.” You have, repeatedly, demonized and belittled and cast aspersion on anybody who doesn’t accept your dogmatic interpretation of early Mormon historical sources relevant to Book of Mormon geography. This isn’t just a matter of having differences of opinion. As your blog posts have more than demonstrated, you have a personal vendetta against the “citation cartel” (which is, in reality, peer reviewed academic scholarship, as opposed to your own brand of trashy Internet pseudo-scholarship) and anybody who is out of step with your narrow and uncompromising Heartland apologetics.

I suspect I know why you are so personally angry and upset at “M2C intellectuals.” It must be very frustrating that your pseudo-scholarship which you’ve invested so much time and energy into is not making mainstream inroads in Mormon studies. It must be frustrating to be a laughingstock at the Church History Department and amongst BYU faculty. It must be frustrating that the best you can do is publish semi-coherent ramblings on obscure personal blogs or with no-name presses. But just know that it isn’t anything personal: it’s because both your Mormon history and your Book of Mormon geography are nonsense and you’re a deeply unpleasant person to interact with..

I don’t know why you have chosen to become such a fanatic over this one issue, but I will say that it is genuinely sad that your testimony is so fragile that even the slightest contradiction of your pet theory causes your cognitive dissonance to flair up like lights on a Christmas tree.

I am content with what I wrote in my post and in the KnoWhy, and I’ll allow readers to decide for themselves which explanation they find more persuasive. I will not, however, waste further time or attention on your shenanigans. Like I said, since you refuse to engage people who disagree with you in good faith, and since you’re a close-minded fanatic, it would be utterly pointless for me to engage you any further.

I will just say this one thing: for all of your self-righteous preening about how you accept the apostles and the prophets, and how “M2C intellectuals” are subversive apostates, it is breathtakingly hypocritical for you to lambast the Church History Department and BYU faculty and Seminaries & Institutes faculty for not kowtowing to your theories, since all of them are ultimately hired by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is astoundingly hypocritical for you to criticize the “Correlation Department” of the Church, which approves “M2C” artwork and videos and articles in Church publications, when, again, the First Presidency and the Twelve are a part of Correlation. It is monstrously hypocritical of you to accuse Saints of being “revisionist history” attempting to deceive people about Book of Mormon geography when Saints has been authorized, reviewed, and approved by the First Presidency and the Twelve.

So please, Jonathan, spare us all the self-righteous BS about how “M2C intellectuals” are trying to get people to disbelieve the prophets and apostles.

Because guess what: as long as you keep doing what you’re doing, you are, in fact, doing the exact same thing. As long as you keep screaming about “M2C intellectuals” ruining the Church, you’re actually telling people to disbelieve the modern prophets and apostles who keep hiring them to work for the Church and guide the Church’s membership in intellectual and historical matters.

“Physician, heal thyself!”
Anonymous Apologetic
_____

That last sentence is good advice for everyone.

Source: About Central America by Jonathan Neville

An Absurd Character Assassination
From a Meso-Blogger called Peter Pan here

“Jonathan Neville has continued his long slide into apostasy by claiming that today’s Church leaders are no longer teaching important truths in General Conference.

This is the same pattern the Latter-day Saints have seen time and time again since 1830: Someone accuses the prophet and other general authorities of being “out of the way,” while they themselves claim to know the truth. Sooner or later, they declare the Church to be in apostasy and break off to form their own church. There have been hundreds of such offshoots; one recent example is the cult of Denver Snuffer. Heartlanders like Jonathan Neville aren’t far behind them.” Peter Pan

Below is another article by Peter Pan who gets our position very wrong. 

FIRM Foundation accuses the Church of deceiving the elect HERE

By Peter | Tags: Apostasy, Church leadership, Conspiracy theories, First Presidency, Heartland hoax, Rodney Meldrum, Seer stones, Self-awareness

“The Foundation for Indigenous Research and Mormonism Foundation (or “FIRM Foundation”) was formed by Rodney Meldrum in 2008. It is the leading organization in the “Heartland” Book of Mormon movement.

Jonathan Neville is a frequent contributor to the FIRM Foundation’s website and frequent speaker at their conferences. He’s also collaborated with Rod Meldrum on Heartland publications, including their Annotated Edition of the Book of Mormon. Neville isn’t responsible for things done by the FIRM Foundation, but he is an important individual within that circle.

On February 17, 2020, the FIRM Foundation posted the following on their Facebook page:

FIRM Foundation Facebook post from February 17, 2020
(Note: The date of Ezra Taft Benson’s BYU address was October 25, 1966, not 1996.)

Here we see yet another example of Heartlanders accusing the Church and its leaders of being fallen or in apostasy and needing correction. According to Rodney Meldrum’s FIRM Foundation, the Church today is teaching “things that do not square with the truth” because the devil is “trying to deceive the very elect.” That, according to them, is why Church publications include statements about Joseph Smith engaging in supposedly “occultic” practices like using seer stones. The Heartlanders are, of course, “the wheat,” while everyone else who believes these supposedly false teachings—including President Russell M. Nelson himself—are “the tares.”

This has been a significant step taken by all apostate groups before they split from the main body of the Church: Accuse its leaders of being “out of the way” and not teaching true principles. The leaders and followers of such groups, of course, believe that they are teaching the truth and that the leaders of the Church need to come into alignment with them.” Peter Pan

Rian Nelson’s Response:

“The Facebook post above was written by me. I wish Peter and his Pan would fess up to his secrecy. What is he hiding? I personally put up the quote above from Pres Benson last Feb. It fit perfectly into my feelings that many in the church even the very elect will be deceived. My mind has never been on the General Authorities or leadership of the church although some GA’s have led some astray in the past. The Brethren are NOT leading anyone into apostacy and they are men who I and all those at the firm foundation love and respect. 

President Nelson and the Apostles are wonderful men and lead and guide the Lord’s true Church. I have always felt as has Rod or any other person associated with the FIRM Foundation that we love and follow the Lord through His Apostles and Prophets. Mr. Peter Pan is lying and it is not right to promote such slander. If any of you reading this post decide to email him please be nice and loving as we don’t want to treat others as he is treating us. 

We advise our Heartland supporters and all people to be kind to those of other Apologetic groups just as we should be kind to all of God’s children. We are simply requesting an honest treatment from these other groups and find some way of working together to build the Lord’s Kingdom and share Christ together with the world.” Rian Nelson