Heed Prophets with the Conviction that Comes by the Spirit of God.
I have no problem with President Nelson and other Apostles who had the “jab” or Experimental Gene Therapy Under Emergency Use Authorization (Title from FDA), even though through much prayer and study I have decided against a jab for myself. I have chosen to take daily Zinc, Vitamin D and C and if that isn’t adequate I will take Hydrochloriquine or Ivermectin which are proven vaccines you can get over the counter.
President Nelson said, “Vaccinations have helped to eliminate diseases such as diphtheria and smallpox. My professional and ecclesiastical experiences convince me that vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life. Receiving the vaccine today was part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens in helping to eliminate COVID-19 from the world.” Russell M. Nelson
I agree with President Nelson here and trust him. He did ad a cautionary note saying, “competent medical professionals”. How do I know who is competent or not? How can I tell if a madman added an ingredient to certain or all vaccines. (Think Bill Gates or anyone else). I would think bad men want to see many die wouldn’t you agree?
The Prophets opinion has to do with his knowledge from his sources and through prayer. My opinion has to do with my knowledge including all I quote in this response, with the Prophets opinion and from my sources and through prayer. I recommend all people to do their own research and include the Prophets research as well. Then make it a matter of personal prayer and receive your own personal revelation. Until and if the Prophets says it is a commandment, I will not get a vaccine.
Editors Note: If you have taken a vaccine please don’t get over worried, just be aware. There may be some things you can do to help alleviate any potential problems. I would recommend more than anything else simply faith and prayer. If you took a vaccine after study and prayer I don’t believe you have anything to worry about, as you are in the Lord’s hands and He will bless you. After all the Lord knows each of us individually and will bless us according to our needs. My sister and brother in law whom I love, have taken the vaccine along with many other great people I know. We must each make our own decision and I am very comfortable with that. I’m just one opinion sharing another side to possibly help.
Prophets Comment’s
“What a pity it would be if we were lead by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are lead by him. … Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves whether their leaders are walking in the path the lord dictates or not.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, 150
Some have misread this quote, and think Brigham Young feared that people could be led astray unless they independently verify each of his instructions. However, when read in the context of his entire sermon, in the first sentence of this quote, Brigham Young was mimicking what others (non-believers) had said about the Saints. He is saying that he does not share the fears held by non-believers, but fears more that people will not heed the teachings of the prophets with the conviction that comes by the Spirit of God.
“There have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine.” Dieter F. Uchtdorf, “Come, Join With Us,” Ensign, November, 2013
9 Things I Consider When Prophets Disagree with My Politics
Joseph Smith said, “Although I was called of my Heavenly Father to lay the foundation of this great work and kingdom in this dispensation, and testify of his revealed will to scattered Israel, I am subject to like passions as other men, like the prophets of olden times.” [History of the Church, Period I, vol. v, p. 516.]
Just One Man’s Opinion- Prophets are Fallible
“After years of faithfully attending Church, some Mormons abandon their faith, upset over alleged mistakes of men. How can such a thoroughly human organization be divine?, they wonder. If they cannot rely on the prophet, who can they rely on? Aren’t the words of the prophets the ultimate source of authorized doctrine? If they can be wrong, how can we have faith in the Church?
Please note: the prophets are not the ultimate authority in the Church, nor are their words. Even canonized scripture–the standard we should use to check the teachings of any, including living prophets–is not infallible and is not the ultimate authority. God is the ultimate authority, and we base our faith in Christ, not humans. We worship God the Father and Christ, not the scriptures that have been written, translated, and printed by man.
If prophets make mistakes that need to be corrected by God, God can find ways to bring about the correction, perhaps through a future revelation. But if a prophet has a wrong opinion on a matter of science, such as Moses thinking a bat was a bird, or Joseph Fielding Smith thinking man would never go to the moon, or others not appreciating certain scientific details of the Creation and its timing, then it may be adequate to wait for future advances in human learning to provide the correction. In the event that we believe a prophet’s views on some matter are wrong, we must be patient and not fall to pieces. We must not make the immature mistake of treating those views as a deciding factor for the divine authority of that prophet.
Why do I and many others remain firm in the faith? Like some who leave the Church, I, too, see the occasional mistakes of men, and realize that the Church is permeated with fallible humans, yet I recognize that such a thoroughly human organization can be divine (in fact, I know that it IS divine)–not because of who we humans are, but because of Who Christ is, the Leader of all humans who will come unto Him, and the ultimate Leader of the Church. He gives man free agency, and even when we come unto Him and seek His spirit, He does not turn us into mindless robots.
Though individuals may not always seek it or listen to it, God does provide precious revelation to leaders in the Church. Of course His Church is permeated with humans. Every decision, every doctrine, every book goes through human hands and minds. We cannot escape this.
Yes, the Church is led by revelation from Christ. I truly believe this. Yet even the greatest prophets of all were not constantly led by revelation or even remotely infallible in their work. Thank goodness they are NOT the ultimate authority and the source of our faith. Thank goodness that Jesus Christ stands at the helm of His Church, patiently working with us mortals to guide us back to Him. Errors of doctrine and understanding can be corrected, if they need to be, but it will be in His own time. We need to be patient with the Lord’s timetable, and be patient with our flawed human leaders, who in spite of their weaknesses, have been called of God to lead us and guide us in the Gospel.
We have prophets, apostles, and other General Authorities, but they are not authorities in general. They may share some views that will later be revealed to be incomplete or simply wrong. Even the scriptures have some demonstrable flaws due to human influence. None of this is reason to abandon the Lord and His Church! We must patiently wait for the Lord and stay true to our covenants, and do all we can to remove our own weaknesses and errors, trusting the Lord to take care of essential issues in His Church as we do all we can to follow Him and build up His kingdom in the midst of our fellow mortals.” https://www.jefflindsay.com/fallible.shtml
From my Blog Titled: LEARNING FROM BOOK OF MORMON GOVERNMENT
Amazing Blog dialogue with Bruce Lloyd!
Hi Brother Lloyd. I’m sitting at my little desk on the other side of the world from you tonight wondering what President Nelson must be feeling as he hears comments (like yours and Rians) rejecting his explanation and counsel regarding this pandemic. He told the world this pandemic is a “plague” and that he and his brethren “have prayed often for this literal godsend“ – vaccinations. The First Presidency also released an official statement urging church members to “help quell the pandemic by safeguarding themselves and others through immunization” because “vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life.”
I’m not trying to be divisive. I’m not talking about right and wrong, and I’m not trying to make anyone feel guilty or rob anyone of their agency; and I’m not really talking even about vaccinations. I am wondering how our prophet must be feeling right now, and how concerned and worried he must be about the welfare of those he loves and serves who are ignoring his vision and counsel?
What to you imagine he feels in that regard right now?
Bruce Lloyd says :
Hi Brother Snow, I trust you are having success gathering Israel and staying on the covenant path and enjoying good health on the other side of the world.
“Per https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/4/29/22407953/president-nelson-on-covid-19-vaccine-comments-speeches-actions-prayers-shot-church-news we have the following statement.
On March 31, President Nelson and other church leaders formalized the First Presidency’s long-standing support for vaccinations by adding a statement to the church’s official General Handbook.
“Vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life,” the handbook now says in Section 38. “Members of the church are encouraged to safeguard themselves, their children and their communities through vaccination.
“Ultimately,” the statement continued, “individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. If members have concerns, they should counsel with competent medical professionals and also seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost.”
I’m sure that Elohim, Jehovah, President Nelson, and the Holy Ghost are well pleased that I have exercised my agency on the matter. I don’t just listen to sound bites. I have spent hundreds of hours looking at medical journals, pondering, praying and listening to and watching doctors on both sides of the issue. It is abundantly clear to me that I should not get this experimental gene therapy under Emergency Use Authorization right now. That could change in the future if ALL my concerns are resolved and no significant side effects are documented. The FDA has NOT approved this experimental procedure. Emergency Use Authorization is not approval. Ongoing studies by Pfizer, Moderna and J&J will run into 2023 or longer. Additionally, the pundits have already announced the need for a 3rd shot!
Statistically with a 99.5 or 99.7% survival rate (based on different ages and comorbidities), why would anyone want to get the jab? Thousand have died after getting the vaccine and thousands have acquired Covid after getting the jabs. And the corrupt fools want the vaccinated to keep wearing mask–doesn’t pass the common-sense test! I’ll take my chances with proven treatments like Vitamins C & D, Zinc, HCQ, and Ivermectin. Why are these proven treatments kept hidden? Because they are effective, inexpensive and eliminates the need for a vaccine. It will kill Big Pharma’s Billions in profits. I’m NOT an Anti-vaxxer. Ten years ago, I had to get all of my childhood shots again after cancer treatments because my bone marrow transplant killed my immune system. All that immunity from drinking canal water and unpasteurized farm milk as a kid was gone. I got 6 shots in 2012 and 6 more a year later. However, this is NOT an FDA APPROVED vaccine.
Now let’s look at what President Nelson actually said on 26 March 2020 during the first of 2 fasting invitations and statements. See https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-nelson-fast-pray-relief-covid-19 Here are some excerpts from his 1.5-minute message.
“As a physician and surgeon, I have great admiration for medical professionals, scientists and all who are working around the clock to curb the spread of Covid-19.” “I invite you to join with me in a worldwide fast (for all whose health permits) to pray for relief from the physical, emotional, and economic effects of this global pandemic.” “Let us unite our faith to plead for physical, spiritual, and other healing throughout the entire world.”
There is absolutely nothing in his 1.-5-minute statement about praying for a vaccine–only relief from the effects of this global pandemic!
I believe God answered our prayers with the understanding that it wasn’t as bad as medical pundits like WHO, CDC, NIH, FDA, etc. predicted.
The 2nd blessing is that children were minimally impacted.
The 3rd blessing is our God-given immune system and the Word of Wisdom. If we get adequate rest, eat healthy and exercise, our immune system will protect us. Sadly, society is sleep deprived and Vitamin D deficient. If we get sick from Covid, we can use proven treatments like Vitamins C & D, HQC, zinc, and Ivermectin. Unfortunately, medical pundits have hidden these treatments to run up the numbers and promote fear mongering and control. If you don’t believe that, ask yourself why France in Jan 2020 moved Hydroxychloroquine from and OTC to a prescription medicine. Many doctors around the world successfully uses HCQ and zinc to treat their patients, but they were threatened by corrupt medical pundits with fines, jail time, and pulling their medical license.
The world response was totally wrong by locking down the world with useless masks and social distancing. We should have continued working and going to school without masks or social distancing. There is nothing magic about a mask. Most people don’t even wear them right or they use a bandana or a pretend mask. Social distancing at 6 feet was an arbitrary and capricious distance. Several months ago, they did a study and said that 3 feet is OK for school kids. Why not 2 feet or 14 inches? First, they said don’t wear a mask and then wear a mask and then a year later, wear 2 masks. I call this nonsense Fauci’s fantasy follies. It has nothing to do with your health. It is all about money, power, and control.
We should have protected and isolated the most vulnerable older people with comorbidities and let the rest of us live normal lives. Now let’s look at President Nelson’s 2nd fasting invitation from General Conference on Saturday, 4 April 2020 per https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2020-04-04/general-conference-april-2020-worldwide-fast-president-nelson-180010. He said,
“For all whose health may permit, let us fast, pray, and unite our faith once again,” said President Russell M. Nelson in his Saturday evening general conference address. “Let us prayerfully plead for relief from this global pandemic.
“I invite all, including those not of our faith, to fast and pray on Good Friday, April 10, that the present pandemic may be controlled, caregivers protected, the economy strengthened and life normalized.” Again, absolutely NOTHING about a vaccine!
I’ve heard several doctors say younger people don’t need a vaccine, but older people with high risk might benefit. I think President Nelson felt it would benefit him and he was going to be a good neighbor and so he got the shot. Remember that getting the shot is NOT a commandment or a question on a temple recommend interview or an ordinance.”
Rian Nelson says:
I have heard what the church leaders have said about Covid and I have prayerfully decided a vaccine is not right or necessary for me at this time. I am not ignoring anyone’s council I am exercising my freedom of speech which I am sure President Nelson would support me in doing. Vaccines have killed and will kill some people and I don’t recommend it to anyone who has not prayed about using it. I believe vaccines are a tool of the government to take away our rights just as they were during the Spanish flu. did you even read my article about that FDH? We can learn from the past you know.
Comment From Cliff
YOUR CRITIC’S RESPONSE TO YOUR POSTS ABOUT YOUR ATTITUDE TO THE VIRUS AND THE TAKING OF THE VACCINE:
“What a silly charge to accuse you of disobeying the prophet or not following him!
We don’t know the prophet’s journey to get to the point of taking the vaccine. We don’t know how much he prayed or how often. We don’t hear his prayers or the Lord’s response. Do we have to eat the same brand of breakfast cereal as the prophet to be called obedient?
You obeyed a higher law and one of the first given — you exercised your agency as a son of God and made a decision which you followed all the while knowing there is a consequence and accountability that goes with your decision – these can be good or bad … reward or punishment, we won’t know until all is answered —- as in every such case in all decisions, even the prophet’s case.
I can see that if the prophet had publicly said “No vaccine for me.” — most of the church members would do the same and the repercussions would be huge for the whole church! — even massive persecutions”.
Sincerely, Cliff
