Joseph Fielding Smith
“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22–24. These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Doctrines of Salvation,” Vol. 3, 225-26).
“I attended sessions of meetings for the institute teachers, held in the assembly room on the fourth floor of the Church Office Building. I cannot say that I was very greatly edified. Too much philosophy of a worldly nature does not seem to mix well with the fundamentals of the gospel. In my opinion many of our teachers employed in the church school system have absorbed too much of the paganism of the world and have accepted too readily the views of uninspired educators without regard for the revealed word of the Lord. What to do about it I do not know. It is a problem for the Presidency to consider. It is a very apparent fact that we have traveled far and wide in the past 20 years [since his father’s death]. What the future will bring I do not know. But if we drift as far afield from fundamental things in the next 20 years, what will be left of the foundation laid by the Prophet Joseph Smith? It is easy for one who observes to see how the apostasy came about in the Primitive Church of Jesus Christ. Are we not traveling the same road? The more I see of educated men—I mean those who are trained in the doctrines and philosophies now taught in the world, the less regard I have for them. Modern theories which are so popular today just do not harmonize with the gospel as revealed to the prophets, and it would be amusing if it were not a tragedy to see how some of our educated brethren attempt to harmonize the theories of men with the revealed word of the Lord. Thank the Lord, there is still some faith left and some members who still cherish the word of the Lord and accept the prophets. Surely the world is ripening rapidly for the destruction, and Satan has power and dominion over his own. If any are saved surely the Lord must soon come and have power over his Saints and reign in their midst, and execute ‘judgment upon Idumea, or the world.” Joseph Fielding Smith The Life of Joseph Fielding Smith 212. Deseret Book Co., 1972
“It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teaching of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man’s doctrine. You cannot accept the books written by the authorities of the Church as standards in doctrine, only in so far as they accord with the revealed word in the standard works. If Joseph Fielding Smith writes something which is out of harmony with the revelations, then every member of the Church is duty bound to reject it. If he writes that which is in perfect harmony with the revealed word of the Lord, then it should be accepted.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954-1956], 3: 203.)
“Whitmer thus continued to the grave, his 1829 on-site understanding of “Urim and Thummim” as a single seer stone. The Church in Utah attempted to correct Whitmer’s “error” above, shortly after its publication in the Chicago Times, with these comments . . . “The next error is that the seer stone which Joseph used in the translation ‘was called Urim and Thummim.’ The instrument thus denominated was composed of two crystal stones ‘set in the two rims of a bow.’ The seer stone was separate and distinct from the Urim and Thummim. The latter was delivered to the angel as well as the plates after the translation was completed; the former remained with the Church and is now in the possession of the President.” [Reynolds 1883, 85; citing, on his page 84 as his source quoted, “The Deseret Evening News at the time of the publication of his letter . . . ,” by which Reynolds means the letter of the Chicago Times correspondent to the Chicago Times, reporting his interview with Whitmer.” Mormon Parallels: A Bibliographic Source © 2014 Rick Grunder page 1522
For the best detailed article on the Urim and Thummim being the only instrument that Joseph Smith used to translate the Gold Plates read here: https://bookofmormonevidence.org/historical-prattle-or-competent-testimony-method-of-translation/
Winchester, the Smoking Gun of the Peep Stone!
As most of you know Benjamin Winchester was the culprit of making up the stories that the pyramids in Central America proved that the Book of Mormon happened in that area. He wanted to show his rival preachers that the Book of Mormon had proofs of the existence of a people just like the Bible had proof that it happened in the Old World in Jerusalem. Now Winchester could compete against these ministers and PROVE the Book of Mormon to be a true history of a true people. It was good that Winchester was trying to prove the Book of Mormon but he was doing it in Central America where the pyramids were dated long after the Nephites were destroyed. (See the Smoking Gun Article Here.)
Evolution of seer stone narrative – Benjamin Winchester by Jonathan Neville
| I’m sitting in my home office, watching the waves of the Pacific Ocean crash, thinking about how intellectual fads come and go until they crash into oblivion on the shore. In recent years, influential LDS scholars have claimed the critics were right after all. According to them, Joseph produced the Book of Mormon by reading words off a seer stone. He didn’t really translate anything. We “need to change the definition of the term translate.” He didn’t use the Urim and Thummim. He didn’t even use the plates! Despite what the scholars say, many active LDS still believe what Joseph and Oliver taught. We’re fine with the scholars saying whatever they want. We’re fine with people following them. We just think some of their conclusions are not credible and contradict what the prophets have taught. The evolution of the seer stone narrative parallels the evolution of M2C. The historical record shows that Joseph and Oliver taught that Cumorah was in New York. Scholars dispute that record–Church historians even changed Church history to censor Cumorah in the Saints book–but the record persists and those interested can read it for themselves. We think extrinsic evidence supports the teachings of the prophets. We think M2C persists because of confirmation bias, but we don’t insist others agree with us. We oppose the efforts of the M2C citation cartel to censor and suppress alternative faithful perspectives. It’s the same thing with the seer stone narrative. The historical record shows that Joseph and Oliver taught that Joseph translated the plates with the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates. From as early as 1834, when Mormonism Unvailed set forth the seer stone (“peep” stone) narrative as an alternative to the Urim and Thummim narrative, critics pushed the seer stone while Joseph and Oliver reiterated the Urim and Thummim narrative throughout their lives. The other day our friends at Book of Mormon Central posted an article about seer stones that articulated the latest LDS scholarly fad. It included this comment: Joseph using peep stones to produce the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith used both the Nephite Interpreters and his individual seer stone in the translation of the Book of Mormon. The practice of using stones or glass to receive divine revelation is found in many cultures, including among the ancient Israelites and Maya. Though we may ultimately never fully understand the nature of the Book of Mormon’s translation, Joseph repeatedly testified that he translated the plates by the gift and power of God. https://bookofmormoncentral.org/blog/4-fascinating-insights-about-seers-seer-stones-and-interpreters Notice how they threw in the “Maya” reference. That’s the confirmation bias we see in everything produced by the M2C citation cartel. Notice also that last clause in bold. It’s a classic example of diversion because it’s a half-truth. Joseph did say he translated the plates by the gift and power of God. But he also said he did so by the means of the Urim and Thummim he obtained with the plates. E.g., in the Wentworth letter, Joseph wrote: With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called “Urim and Thummim,” which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/church-history-1-march-1842/2 Today I’ll refer to Benjamin Winchester to illustrate the evolution of the seer stone narrative. Our M2C scholars followed Benjamin Winchester’s lead by focusing on Central America. (Winchester wrote the anonymous 1842 Times and Seasons articles that remains the basic rationale for M2C. We discussed that yesterday here.)Now scholars are following Winchester’s lead on the seer stones vs Urim and Thummim. In 1841, Benjamin Winchester published a newspaper in Philadelphia. At the time, he was a zealous missionary, a close friend of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, etc. In the March 15 issue, he wrote: Moroni was then commanded to deposit this record in the earth, together with the Urim and Thummim, or as the Nephites would have said, Interpreters, which were instruments to assist in the work of the translation, with a promise from the Lord that it should be brought to light by means of a Gentile Nation that should possess the land; and be published to the world, and go forth to the Lamanites, and be one of the instruments in the hands of God for their conversion. A few pages later, with Joseph Smith’s express permission, Winchester republished Oliver Cowdery’s eight essays on Church history (the original Gospel Topics essays). These include the passage now found in the Pearl of Great Price: Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated, with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, “ Interpreters,” the history, or record, called “ The Book of Mormon.” Also this passage: “[Moroni] said this history was and deposited not far from that place, and that it was our brother’s privilege, if obedient to the commandments of the Lord, to obtain, and translate the same by the means of the Urim and Thummim, which were deposited for that purpose with the record. “Winchester was on solid ground. Not only did Joseph give him permission to republish Oliver’s essays, but he gave them to his brother Don Carlos to publish in the Times and Seasons. He had his scribes copy them into his own journal as part of his life history. His brother William republished them again in 1844 in New York City. Winchester continued to publish books and articles defending the Church. He refuted the Solomon Spaulding theory. He went on a mission to promote Joseph Smith’s candidacy for U.S. President. But then he became disgruntled, partly over polygamy and partly over disputes with his old friend William Smith (Joseph’s brother). He was excommunicated. Later in life, he changed his version of his experiences with Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. Here’s what he wrote about the peep stones and the Urim and Thummim. This article was published in the Salt Lake Tribune on Sunday, September 22, 1889. In regard to Joseph’s literary work — his “translations” — I well remember some of it at Kirtland. They had there in the temple some Egyptian mummies, four of them I am positive. From one of them Joseph had taken a scroll lettered over with what purported to be Egyptian characters. It was kept on exhibition in a glass case. To this scroll Joseph applied his peep-stone or “Urim-Thummim” and made out a translation purporting to be a vision of Abraham in which the modern theory that the world is round and that it revolves was sustained against the ancient theory prior to the time of Galileo. Just like some of our LDS scholars today, Winchester put quotation marks around “translation” and equated the seer stone with the Urim and Thummim. In 1900, Winchester dictated a final testimony. [Joseph] carried what he called a ‘Peep stone’ through which he claimed to see hidden treasure & etc. This is what he afterwards called his ‘Urim and Thummim.’ Finally he took the notion to get up a book. Then he claimed to have made the discovery of the plates. Then he got Cowdery, Harris and Whitmer into it.” “Cowdery was his scribe, or the writer of the book, as Smith dictated it. It was done this way…. Smith was behind the blankets in the dark with this ‘peep stone’ in his hat and then his face in the hat. As he looked into the hat there would come sentence after sentence upon the stone, and he would dictate it to Cowdery, and Cowdery would write it down. Benjamin Winchester’s claim is exactly what some scholars today say we’re supposed to believe. It’s in Saints, it’s in the Ensign, and it’s in Book of Mormon Central. Back in 1889, just two weeks after Winchester’s article came out in the Salt Lake Tribune, President Wilford Woodruff stood up in General Conference and delivered this re-affirmation of what Joseph and Oliver always taught. And, as has been stated during this Conference, he brought forth the Book of Mormon-the stick of Joseph in the hands of Ephraim-in fulfillment of the testimony of Isaiah, translating that record through the Urim and Thummim, thereby revealing to us the history of the early inhabitants of this Continent. (1889, October, 6th Session, President Wilford Woodruff)President Woodruff could have said, “Well, Benjamin Winchester was correct. Joseph didn’t really translate the Book of Mormon. He merely read words that appeared on a seer stone.”There is a long history of Church leaders defending and reiterating what Joseph and Oliver claimed. Here’s one of over 100 examples from General Conference addresses: “This book, that has been so despised by the world, was testified to by the Prophet Joseph when asked: “How and when did you obtain the Book of Mormon? Answer. Moroni, the person who deposited the plates, from which the Book of Mormon was translated, in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead, and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me, and told me where they were; and gave me directions how to obtain them. I obtained them, and the Urim and Thummim with them, by the means of which I translated the plates, and thus came the Book of Mormon.”(1896, October, 4th Session, Elder Franklin D. Richards)There are many sources in Church history that support what Joseph and Oliver said about the translation. There are also sources, such as Benjamin Winchester’s final testimonies, that contradict what Joseph and Oliver said. We can all choose what we want to believe. For now, let’s just consider a final passage. 34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants; 35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book. (Joseph Smith—History 1:34–35)Source: About Central America Jonathan Neville | May 8, 2020 at 6:47 pm |
