Editor’s Note: The following article from this remarkable man, Mike Downs from Idaho, is a spirit filled witness of the calling of Joseph Smith and how the plates were translated. Mike’s use of scripture and his own intelligent reasoning are so rare in our youth of today. He is definitely part of the “Woke Up” club, and his testimony is solid. We appreciate Mike’s father Jeff, who has been a supporter of Firm Foundation for many years and has been a great friend and role model for many.
The Case for the Urim and Thummim by Mike Downs
Introduction:
“The Book of Mormon is a wonderful book of scripture that truly testifies that Jesus is the Christ. Its teachings are rich with doctrines and principles that come from a loving Heavenly Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. Some believe this book is fictitious and simply a parable of something that might have happened. I bear witness that this book is 100% real. The people, the stories, and the doctrine are not constructed to trick people into believing in something fake. However, the purpose of this document is not to prove the historicity of the Book of Mormon (though plenty of internal evidence can certainly prove things found in the Book of Mormon make it very authentic). The purpose is to prove that Joseph did not use a seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon.
Why is it Important:
I had a friend ask me why it is important with how the Book of Mormon was translated. The Holy Ghost can still bear witness to the truthfulness of the book. This is true, but the adversary will take any bit of doubt and amplify it to the point that one may lose sight of the truth. In a sense, it is as if the devil is laying a land mine that is waiting to detonate your faith at a moment of weakness. To think that this idea is farfetched is wrong because some people have heard about the Seer Stone and lost their faith or have it damaged. At BYU-I, I had a religion professor promote the idea of a seer stone so hard, I felt that something was off. I could not explain then why I felt against it, but after sincere study, I can say what I was feeling was a warning that it was false, at least in the sense that the stone was used in the translation process.
My goal here is not to incite any contention or start an argument. Doing so would be of the devil and not of Christ.[1] I leave it to the reader to decide what is true and what is not. I firmly believe that the scriptures can speak for themselves, especially the Book of Mormon. If the reader truly has an open mind to what is about to be shared, I know it can help him or she have a deeper testimony of the Book of Mormon and the Prophet Joseph Smith. I have thought about adding long explanations on why David Whitmer’s, Emma Smith’s, and Martin Harris’s accounts are false, but have felt that appealing to the scriptures would destroy their false or questionable statements and show believing their words about the seer stone is ridiculous.
One important thing to remember is that the Holy Ghost can teach us all things and that the things of the Spirit can only be learned by the Spirit.[2] So when scholars slander any scripture from the standard works, they should be looked at like fools because they put their wisdom over revelation given through the Lord’s prophets.[3] With that being said, is the Book of Mormon translation something to be learned of with the Spirit? I think it can be, mainly on the fact that revelation was a strong part of the process[4]. The Lord will probably not reveal unto us exactly how the translation process worked at this time (so those who say they know either guess or in some cases lie), but he can confirm unto us if what Joseph and others said were true. A good question to ask ourselves on this topic is this: Why would the scriptures refer to the Urim and Thummim so much if it was not an important detail to know?
If Mormon saw our day and had limited space to use in the gold plates, why include details about the Urim and Thummim? I suggest that it was because of dishonest and misguided men who would try to discredit Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.
Now to answer the question of my friend, “Why is it (The Book of Mormon Translation) important?” I submit that understanding what instruments were used by Joseph are important for several reasons:
1) The adversary will use this confusion to jeopardize people’s faith in the Savior by making them doubt what is real.
2) This misinformation would make Joseph look like a liar and a dishonest person.
3) We would lose sight of what it truly means when scriptures say that this work is a “marvelous work and a wonder”[5].
Global Variables:
“There Indeed” by Clark Kelley PriceWhen I was putting this paper together, I was reminded of a principle I learned from one of my computer programming courses. The principle was on global variables. In programming, global variables are used to set certain values that can be used throughout the program. If needed, these variables can change, but in certain cases the variable can be made private and unchangeable. When it comes to the Book of Mormon translation, certain facts cannot change because they are God’s word. So, if we were to set some “global variables” for the Book of Mormon translation process that are unchangeable, what would we choose? May I suggest these three points:
- Joseph was commanded not to show the plates or the Urim and Thummim (Interpreters) to anyone unless commanded[6]
- Joseph translated it “by the gift and power of God”[7]
- “It was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon.”[8]
Two Camps:
With our global variables in place, let us now make clear the two camps we see when individuals try to explain how the Book of Mormon was translated. The 1st Camp is that the Book of Mormon was translated by Joseph Smith using the Urim and Thummim (the Nephite interpreters) that were found with the plates. Joseph used the plates through the translating process. The 2nd camp is that the Urim and Thummim may have been used for a little bit, but a seer stone and a hat were used for much of the translation because of convenience. The plates were hardly used or looked at.
As stated above, I will not bother at this time explaining in detail why Martin Harris, David Whitmer, and Emma Smith’s statements were false. They believed that a seer stone was used in the translation process. Other notable men and women have explained it better than I could so I will not spend a lot of time debunking their statements. I would just simply say look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions!
The evidence is easy to find and is not in some obscure statement or book. Down below are two tables. Table 1 examines evidence that Joseph did use the Urim and Thummim (Nephite Interpreters) during the translation process. Table 2 examines the evidence of where the Urim and Thummim came from that Joseph used. Table 3 describes the Urim and Thummim. Note some references may be repeated for emphasis.
The Evidence:
Table 1:
Table 2:
Table 3:
Tables ExplanationTable 1 gives a brief overview of four scriptures that has the Lord, Joseph Smith, and Oliver Cowdrey implying that the Book of Mormon was translated through the means of the Urim and Thummim. If I was a lawyer in a court case, these three witnesses would be damming evidence against the opposing side. Three of these statements come from the Lord and the Prophet Joseph and easily bear considerable weight and authority. Oliver Cowdrey simply solidifies what is being said by Joseph and the Lord.
Table 2 outlines where the Urim and Thummim came from and their purpose. If these interpreters were prepared for the purpose of translating the book as ancient prophets have written, then why would Joseph go against God’s wisdom and rely on a stone he found at a well? It does not make sense for the Lord’s Prophet to go against the Lord’s plan and do his own will because some other way might be easier. Now Joseph made mistakes, but Joseph and the Lord made no mention of a seer stone being used during the translation process. We can also see that the Urim and Thummim have been passed down through many prophets from the time of the Brother of Jared to King Mosiah to Joseph Smith.
Table 3 debunks the claim that that the Urim and Thummim is an interchangeable term and could easily be the seer stone or the Nephite interpreters.[9] If we examine the statements found in Table 3, we will see that Joseph and ancient prophets described the Urim and Thummim as two transparent stones set in a silver bow and that he received them with the gold plates in the Hill Cumorah. This same Urim and Thummim was the one used by Book of Mormon prophets from the time of the Brother of Jared to Moroni which was then buried until the time of Joseph Smith. To say the Urim and Thummim was an interchangeable term is illogical because it contradicts how the item is described in scripture.
Who to Believe?
Now some may be inclined to say that both the seer stone and Urim and Thummim were used. Part of the reason is that Emma Smith, Martin Harris, and David Whitmer couldn’t possibly be wrong. Emma was the prophet’s wife, and David Whitmer and Martin Harris were a part of the three witnesses. I do think these three are honorable to a degree, but we should be careful to trust their statements, especially when the statements they gave were given long after they left the Church. Some of these statements, in their full context (something few take the time to research) were blatantly against the Church.
Let us look at a generally accepted idea of Joseph’s scribes recorded during the translation process:
Martin Harris and Emma Smith helped translate what is known as the lost 116 pages or the Book of Lehi. Oliver Cowdrey translated most, if not all, of the Book of Mormon that we have today.[10] Now Martin Harris, Emma Smith, and David Whitmer claim Joseph used a seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon. How do their claims add up to the claims from the Lord, Joseph, and Oliver? They don’t add up at all. If Martin Harris claims a seer stone was used during his period as a scribe, would that make the Lord’s comments about Joseph using the Urim and Thummim in D&C 10 a lie? No, it would make Martin the liar because the Lord cannot lie.[11] So if that’s the case, the Urim and Thummim must have been used for the 116 pages. It then must be assumed that when the Lord told Joseph to continue translating as he did before, that he would keep using the Urim and Thummim, not a seer stone because that was not what Joseph was using to begin with.[12]
So, what about David Whitmer and Emma Smith’s accounts of the use of a seer stone? Their accounts falter because according to Oliver, he testifies that Joseph used the Urim and Thummim for the remainder of the translation of the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi through Moroni). One may claim that Oliver’s account holds the same weight as David and Emma (though David Whitmer’s accounts flip flop between Joseph using a seer stone or the interpreters). If this is the case, let us refer to our global variables. Joseph was commanded not to show the plates or the Urim and Thummim to anyone.[13] So that means only Joseph and the Lord can truly say what happened in the translation process. So, what did the Lord’s servant say? We do know that the world is not supposed to know the particulars of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. BYU scholars and others seem to make this point very clear and then proceed to say what Joseph said or did through sources that on the surface seem official, but down below are dishonest and false.
To all those who believe Joseph was a true prophet of God, I submit you listen to the man himself that was called to do a work that was prophesied by prophets thousands of years before. Here is how he described the gold plates and how he translated the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith said this:
“These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters and bound together in a volume, as the leaves of a book with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed. The characters on the unsealed part were small, and beautifully engraved. The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called ‘Urim and Thummim,’ which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God. .”[14]
If the global variable is true, then we must take Joseph’s word for it because he is the only confirmed person on earth that saw the translation process. If we cherry-pick and say Joseph lied here or did not tell the truth there, what kind of prophet would he be? He would be a false prophet and one that cannot be trusted. Though historians or people in the church may claim this idea, I testify that Joseph is a prophet of the Lord and that those who fight against this truth will find great shame on Judgment Day.
Final Conclusions and Thoughts
In conclusion, I submit to you that a seer stone could not have been possibly used due to evidence presented by the Lord, Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdrey, and ancient scripture. Unlike some of the historians and scholars that just appeal to facts, I appeal to the Holy Ghost to give people guidance on this matter. I firmly believe that the Lord is a perfect being that cannot lie. I strongly testify Joseph Smith was a true prophet of the Lord and that those who say otherwise will experience bitter sorrow for fighting against the Lord’s anointed. Furthermore, I will always stand by Joseph and what he said instead of the possible half-truths or lies spread by those who seek to remove Joseph from his prophetic pedestal.
To those who have doubts about Joseph because of the seer stone, treasure digging, or any other slander against the prophet, I urge you to follow the Lord’s counsel in seeking to study out of the best books (in full context) with wisdom and faith.[15] Joseph has truly done more than any man for the salvation of the human family save Jesus only.[16] If historians are confusing you on who Joseph was, may I invite you to read Joseph Smith history, ancient prophecies about him, and the Book of Mormon. If one truly wants to know Joseph, the scriptures, or even the Savior Jesus Christ, they must be willing to put forth the work in study and prayer to truly know them.
When I first heard about the seer stone idea, I read about it briefly from the Gospel topics section on the Gospel Library app from the church. I thought nothing of it. It wasn’t until a professor’s class that something did not feel right to me. If I learned anything from my time as a missionary for the church, it is how to recognize certain promptings of the Holy Ghost. It may be bold to some to say that through the Holy Ghost I received confirmation that the Urim and Thummim was used, and that the seer stone was not in the Book of Mormon translation. After seeing the damage and confusion this idea was causing, I wondered why such an idea would cause members to fall away. I found answers in the scriptures above but knew that some would still not accept them because of a lack of faith and confidence in ancient prophets. When I found the statements on Joseph commenting directly on what the Urim and Thummim was and how he used it to translate the Book of Mormon, I instantly threw out the claims of the seer stone because I knew Joseph is a prophet of God and that all claims for the seer stone being used in the actual translation were false. It was not until later I discovered that the seer stone theory originated from anti-Mormon literature produced in Joseph Smith’s time called Mormonism Unveiled[17].
I would urge every reader to prove to themselves what is true and what is not. I trust the prophet and the scriptures over pathetic slander and stories. The seer stone accounts came from members after they left the church and fought against Joseph. I came to this conclusion through study, prayer, and faith. After reading this paper, I hope you can draw your own conclusions. I hope that in some way your testimony or faith in the Lord and his prophet Joseph were strengthened. Finally, I hope that you have the knowledge and understanding from the Holy Ghost on this matter to destroy the attacks from Satan on this matter for yourself and possible loved ones who may have questions on this issue. May Heavenly Father strengthen those who have questions or who are seeking answers.” Mike Downs
Editor’s Note: Scriptures and statements that validate the translation with the spectacles and breastplate, also known as the Urim and Thummim and Interpreters. PDF Here There is no seer stone or single stone mentioned in the scriptures, used to translate the plates.
Author Notes:
“A Note About the Times and Seasons: (To Show Joseph said and edited the words found in table 1 and 3 above, the paragraphs below describe the newspaper. The Paragraphs are from the Encyclopedia of Latter-Day Saint History which was printed in the year 2000)
Times and Seasons, a major source of information on early Latter-Day Saint thought, was published at Nauvoo 1840-1846. During the spring of 1839, Elias Smith and Hiram Clark retrieved from a muddy grave in far West, Missouri, the press and type that had been used in the publication of the elders Journal. (The equipment had been buried there for safety when the Saints were driven out. ) Various editors then use the machinery to publish times and seasons, which became the churches journalistic voice during the Nauvoo, Illinois, era. The periodical was first issued as a “monthly religious paper in pamphlet form” (Smith, 4:23) in November 1839 by Don Carlos Smith and Ebenezer Robinson. Following its first year, times and seasons became a semi-monthly publication.
In December 1840, the firm Robinson and Smith, publishers, was dissolved, and Don Carlos Smith became the editor, taking on Robert B Thompson as a partner during the spring of 1841. Following the death of Smith on 7 August and of Thompson on 27 August 1841, Ebenezer Robinson once again became the editor and this time the sole manager as well. When the core of the 12 apostles determined either to take over the periodical or start a competing paper at the end of 1841, Robinson reluctantly sold the periodical to the church (Smith, 4:463)
Thereafter it was edited by the Prophet Joseph Smith (volume 3, from the 8th number on) and then by John Taylor (volumes 4 – 6). Altogether, 131 issues of the times and seasons were produced. “Each number of the paper consisted of 16 large octavo pages, the printing matter on each page measuring four and 1/4 by 8 inches “ (Jenson, 875). The final edition came off the press on 15 February 1846, a few days after the exodus from Nauvoo had begun.
[1] 3 Nephi 11:29-30
[2] See Moroni 10:5 and 1 Corinthians 2:2-5, 9-16
[3] 2 Nephi 9: 8-9
[4] D&C 8 is a great example of how to receive and seek revelation. The Lord teaches Oliver Cowdrey personally and helps him learn from his failed attempt to translate.
[5] 2 Nephi 25:17, 27:26, Isaiah 29:14
[6] Joseph Smith History 1:42
[7] Title Page of the Book of Mormon
[8] Minutes, Church conference, Orange, OH, Oct. 25–26, 1831, in Minute Book 2, Church History Library, Salt Lake City, available at josephsmithpapers.org; Welch, “Miraculous Translation,” 121–9.
[9] For example, when Joseph Smith showed a seer stone to Wilford Woodruff in late 1841, Woodruff recorded in his journal: “I had the privilege of seeing for the first time in my day the URIM & THUMMIM” . Wilford Woodruff journal, Dec. 27, 1841, Church History Library, Salt Lake City. Even though the seer stone might be a Urim and Thummim it is hearsay to guess that it was used during the B.O.M translation process when Joseph and the Lord clearly stated otherwise to the fact.
[10] Note that this is a very simplified version and that two of David Whitmer’s brothers, Emma Smith, and Joseph Smith himself may have been a scribe for tiny portions during Oliver’s time as a scribe.
[11] Lord cannot lie. See Ether 3:12, Numbers 23:19, and Hebrews 6:18
[12] D&C 10:1-4
[13] Joseph Smith History 1:42
[14] Times and Seasons, 1 March 1842,” p. 707, The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed February 13, 2021, https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/times-and-seasons-1-march-1842/5
[15] D&C 88:118
[16] D&C 135:3-5
[17] Mormonism Unveiled was written by a man named Doctor Philastus Hurlburt, but published y E.D Howe. Hulburt was an apostate from the church along with several other Christian churches. He threatened Joseph Smith on many occasions, gathered false stories about the prophet, and possibly murdered an individual. Some BYU scholars or historians sometimes reference the book secretly to push false narratives like the seer stone or treasure digging to fit their beliefs.” Mike Downs
Mike Downs Bio:
My name is Mike Downs. Currently I am attending BYU-I and am majoring in Software Engineering. I currently work for a company that helps individuals with disabilities find employment. I served a 2 year mission for the Church in Tacoma Washington from 2017-2019. [email protected] 
