Why “Saints” doesn’t use the word “Cumorah” in their book. (In there own words)
Saints and Book of Mormon Geography
Jed Woodworth and Matt Grow
12 October 2018 Source
Woodworth and Grow in black and red text below. My words in blue below.
“Since the publication of Saints, Volume 1: The Standard of Truth, 1815–1846, some concern has been expressed online and to us personally that the text of the book has expressed a preference against a “heartland” model of Book of Mormon geography. We have been disappointed to read online commentary from individuals favoring a “heartland” model of Book of Mormon geography that asserts Saints works in subtle (and even conspiratorial) ways to suppress their views. This is not true.
Much of the concern has resulted because the word “Cumorah” does not appear in Saints. This omission has led some to believe that we left out that word in order to speak against a “heartland” model. We assure you that this is simply not the case. We have worked on Saints for many years, Matt as a general editor of Saints and Jed as a review editor of Volume 1. In those capacities, we have read all the draft chapters and editorial comments accompanying these drafts. No one under our observation—writers, editors, external reviewers, General Authority reviewers—has expressed any concern about the word “Cumorah” or articulated any need to expunge it from the record. To our knowledge, there have been no discussions about the need to put down one theory of Book of Mormon geography in order to promote another. Maybe, “there have been no discussions about the need to put down one theory of Book of Mormon geography in order to promote another” but is sounds like it HAS happened here.
The purpose of Saints is to present a compelling narrative of the faith and sacrifice of early Latter-day Saints, not to weigh in (subtly or otherwise) on the various theories of Book of Mormon geography. [Weighing in for a compelling narrative would include well known places such as “The Sacred Grove” and” The Hill Cumorah” and “The First Vision.”] We have sought to uphold the Church’s position of neutrality on these theories: “Though there are several plausible hypotheses regarding the geographic locations of Book of Mormon events, the Church takes no official position except that the events occurred in the Americas.”1 [We agree the Church takes no official position. That should mean you consider a Heartland Model and a Baja Model, and A Zarahemla Centric model correct? There are many claims of geography in the United States of America and within the”Americas”, correct? Why won’t you allow any one on your websites and in your books discussing these other positions, as you only stick with your pet theory Mesoamerican? In other words stop acting like you are neutral like the Church because you aren’t. You don’t allow for any dialogue except Mesoamerican in your books and magazines and websites. Just come clean like we have. We are not neutral as we believe the Book of Mormon events happened in the Heartland of the USA. Why don’t you come out and say as all your writings show, that you are not neutral as you believe Book of Mormon events happened in Mesoamerica? A little honesty would help.
The preface to Saints explains that the book is a narrative history. Narrative histories are governed by rules, and one of the rules implemented by our writing team is that characters are to live in the “narrative present” and not be burdened by the understanding of later time periods. Our rule states: “The whole story as we understand it will be told, but readers will be following that story scene-by-scene, or even volume-by-volume, as the narrative progresses. If readers desire a broader view of the story or want additional information, extensive footnotes are included, and other in-depth material is available online, including links to essays, videos, and other sources.”
Definition: Use the present narrative tense. The simple present makes statements intended to be true regardless of time and without any stance. The present perfect relates a past situation/action to the present situation/result. As the narrative tense, the present accommodates the past tense and all modal verb usage seamlessly. Source
Thus, as Saints tells it, Joseph Smith walks into the “woods,” not the Sacred Grove, in 1820. There he has a “vision” of God and Christ, not the First Vision.2 In the same way, Joseph walks to a “hill” not far from his father’s home, not to the Hill Cumorah.3 The reason for omitting “Cumorah” is not that the writers wanted to expunge it in order to promote a geographical theory. The reason is that there is no historical evidence that Moroni called the hill “Cumorah” in 1823. [Editors note: I will show you below two times the word “Cumorah WAS used in Church History” that these editors leave out. In my opinion the Saints editors are simply choosing to write in a method that purposefully focuses away from the true geography of the Book of Mormon.
Of course, early Latter-day Saints, including Joseph Smith, later called the hill Cumorah, but the best research on the subject puts the term into common circulation no earlier than the mid-1830s.4 The main historical source concerning events at the hill between 1823 and 1827 comes from the history Joseph Smith began in 1838. There Joseph uses the term “hill,” never “Hill Cumorah.”5 Saints follows Joseph’s lead.
As our rule states, additional material connected with Saints contains “a broader view of the story.” In the Church History Topics, where the rules of narrative history do not apply, the term “Cumorah” can be found (see topics entitled “Angel Moroni” and “Sacred Grove and Smith Family Farm” at saints.lds.org or on the Gospel Library App).”
[1] “Book of Mormon and DNA Studies,” note 6, Gospel Topics, topics.lds.org.
[2] See Saints, volume 1, chapter 2.
[5] This history initially refers to it only as “the place,” but Joseph’s scribe James Mulholland appended a slip of paper to the volume describing “a hill of considerable size, and the most elevated of any in the neighborhood.” The back of the slip of paper explains that he made the addition in consultation with Joseph. See Joseph Smith History, 1838–56, volume A-1, 7 and attached slip, in Karen Lynn Davidson and others, eds., Histories, Volume 1: Joseph Smith Histories, 1832–1844, volume 1 of the Histories series of The Joseph Smith Papers, edited by Dean C. Jessee and others (Salt Lake City: Church Historian’s Press, 2012), 232–33 (draft 2).
First 2 Times the Hill was Called Cumorah
1- Early 1827– Joseph Smith (quoted by his mother Lucy Mack Smith)
[In January 1827, Joseph] returned with his wife, in good health and fine spirits. Not long after this his father had occasion to send him to Manchester on business. <And,> as he started quite early in the morning, we expected him home, at the outside, by 6. o clock in the evening. But when 6. came he did not arrive.— we always had a peculiar anxiety about him whenever he was absent from us; for, it seemed as if something was always taking place to jeopardize his life. But to return, he did not get home till the night was far spent. On coming in, threw himself into a chair, apparently much exhausted. My husband did not observe his appearance, and immediately exclaimed, “Joseph, why have you staid so late? has anything happened you? we have been much distressed about you these three hours. As Joseph made no reply, he continued his interrogations until I finally said: now, father, (as that was the manner in which I commonly addressed him) let him rest a moment— don’t trouble him now— you see he is home safe, and he is very tired; so pray wait a little.
The fact is, I had learned to be a little cautious about matters with regard to Joseph; for I was accustomed to see him look as he did on that occasion, and could not easily mistake the cause thereof. Presently he smiled, and said in a very calm tone, “I have taken the severest chastisement, that I have ever had in my life”. My husband, supposing it was from some of the neighbors, was quite angry; and observed, “I would like to know what business any body has to find fault with you.”
“Stop, father, Stop.” said Joseph, “it was the angel of the Lord— as I passed by the hill of Cumorah, where the plates are, the angel of the Lord met me and said, that I had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord; that the time had come for the record to <be> brought forth; and, that I must be up and doing, and set myself about the things which God had commanded me to do: but, Father,’ continued he, ‘give yourself no uneasiness concerning the reprimand that I have received; for I now know the course that I am to pursue; so all will be well.”
It was also made known to him at this interview, that he should make another effort to obtain the plates on the 22d. of the following September; But this he did not mention to us at that time.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/111
2. 1823 to 1824
“By now, everyone knows we have an account of Joseph referring to Cumorah before he even got the plates, which indicates he had to have learned the name from Moroni (or Nephi, who also visited him). Parley P. Pratt explained that Moroni anciently called the hill in New York by the name of Cumorah.
The question arises: when did Moroni tell Joseph the name of the hill?
Apparently this occurred during the night of Moroni’s first visit
Lucy Mack Smith recorded a little-known account of what Moroni told Joseph Smith, including the identification of Cumorah. The detail in it suggests credibility and reliability. [editing marks removed]
[Moroni, after telling Joseph about the record, said] but you cannot get it until you learn to keep the commandments of God For it is not to get gain. But it is to bring forth that light and intelligence which has been long lost in the Earth
Now Joseph beware or when you go to get the plates your mind will be filled with darkness and all manner of evil will rush into your mind. To prevent you from keeping the commandments of God that you may not succeed in doing his work and you must tell your father of this for he will believe every word you say.
The record is on a side hill on the Hill of Cumorah 3 miles from this place. Remove the grass and moss and you will find a large flat stone pry that up and you will find the record under it laying on 4 pillars of cement— then the angel left him.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/41
Here we see Moroni referring to the hill by name and specifying its location. He told Joseph he’d have to remove the grass and moss, which is a significant detail because it helps explain why the stone had not been removed in the centuries since Moroni first put it over the stone box.
This account is from the version of her history that Lucy Mack Smith dictated to Martha Coray. The 1845 version, created by the Corays from Lucy’s original version plus additional material (see the historical introduction), omits these paragraphs without explanation. In this section on Moroni’s visit, they incorporated the History of Joseph Smith that was published in the Times and Seasons in lieu of Lucy’s description of the visit.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/89
Some people think Lucy conflated the First Vision with the visit of Moroni, but when we read her original version (the 1844-1845 draft), it is not inconsistent with Joseph’s accounts.
Joseph’s 1832 history relates that he “called again” the night when Moroni appeared and that, once again, the Lord had forgiven him his sins.
it came to pass when I was seventeen years of age I called again upon the Lord and he shewed unto me a heavenly vision for behold an angel of the Lord came and stood before me and it was by night and he called me by name and he said the Lord had forgiven me my sins and he revealed unto me that in the Town of Manchester Ontario County N.Y. there was plates of gold upon which there was engravings which was engraven by Maroni & his fathers the servants of the living God in ancient days and deposited by th[e] commandments of God and kept by the power thereof and that I should go and get them and he revealed unto me many things concerning the inhabitents of of the earth which since have been revealed in commandments & revelations
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-circa-summer-1832/4
Some scholars think Lucy was confused by the allegedly false tradition about Cumorah that arose among the early Latter-day Saints. Such an interpretation is not driven by historical evidence; instead, it is driven by their ideological opposition to the idea that the hill in New York was the Cumorah of Mormon 6:6.” Jonathan Neville
The Hill Cumorah (Hill Ramah) By: Joseph L. Allen and Blake J. Allen
(Two Huge Mesoamericanist who are nice people)
Allen’s notes in black text mine in blue.
Many members of the Church are not aware that the hill Ramah of the Jaredites is the same hill as the hill Cumorah of the Nephites (see Ether 15:11). Scientific and scriptural analyses have been presented beginning in the 1940s proposing the hypothesis that the Hill Cumorah in New York is not the hill Cumorah of the Book of Mormon.
The hypothesis is stated as follows: If the Olmecs, who had their headquarters along the Gulf of Mexico, are the same people as the Jaredites in the Book of Mormon, then the hill Cumorah referred to in the Book of Mormon is in Veracruz, Mexico, and not in upstate New York. That hypothesis is based on Book of Mormon givens that the hill Ramah was located in Jaredite territory and that the Jaredite hill Ramah is the same hill as the Nephite hill Cumorah. [We of course believe the Jaredites are the Adena people who arrived in the USA about 2250 BC and the Nephites are the Hopewell culture that lived in the heartland of the USA from 600 BC Florida to 500 AD Great Lakes.]
Nevertheless, the issue is still a sensitive one. Traditional history of the Church affirms that the hill in New York is, indeed, the hill Cumorah referred to in the Book of Mormon. In the year 1868, Orson Pratt, an Apostle of the Church, presented an overview of Book of Mormon geography that is recorded in the Journal of Discourses (vol. 14:324–31) wherein he states that “the great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith.” [We also have over 200 quotes from Prophets and Apostles that quote and say that the Hill Cumorah in New York is the same hill where the final battles occurred between the Nephites and Lamanites near that same hill in New York.] See long list here.
Very few members of the Church ever lived in Palmyra where the Prophet Joseph Smith received the gold plates because, within just a few years, the Church moved its headquarters from New York to Ohio and subsequently to Missouri, Illinois, and Utah. Nevertheless, tradition dictated that the “hill of considerable size” (Joseph Smith—History 1:51), where the Prophet retrieved the plates and which was located near the Smith home in Ontario County, New York, was the actual hill where the final Nephite-Lamanite battle was fought (see Mormon 6:6).
A careful reading of Mormon 6:6 has caused adherents of a Mexico hill Cumorah to reinforce their position by illustrating that Mormon “hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records” that the Lord entrusted to him except “these few plates” that he gave to his son, Moroni (Mormon 6:6). The “few plates,” they say, are the plates (our Book of Mormon) that Moroni carried from Mexico to New York. In his own words, he writes, “I will write and hide up the records in the earth; and whither I go it mattereth not” (Mormon 8:4). [So where would Moroni leave the wagon loads of records and the breatsplate and the Liahona, and the many swords as it would be hard enough for Moroni to carry 50 pounds of plates, his breastplate, sword and armor 3,387 miles, correct? Wouldn’t it be easier to say the cave that Brigham Young said Joseph walked into, that had all those items in another department of the hill in New York be a better answer?]
Two Depositories in the Same Hill Cumorah in New York
“The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . .
These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)
Fifteen years later, at about AD 400, Moroni wrote that he had made an end of abridging the book of Ether and had not yet left the lands of the Lamanites. He wrote that he would wander “whithersoever” for the safety of his life (Moroni 1:3). It is during that time of wandering from AD 400 to his last entry in AD 421 that adherents of the Mexico hill Cumorah say he would have wandered from Veracruz, Mexico, to upstate New York. [Silly journey. Wouldn’t Moroni be safer staying fairly close to the territory of New York where he grew up and knows? Wouldn’t the more Moroni travels on foot allow his enemy to see him easier? Why not hunker down in one of many caves, or crevasses, maybe near water where he could fish and leave the plates hidden at short intervals of time so he could hunt and fist. This narrative about an over 3,700 mile trek is silly and has outdated its shelve life, don’t you think?]
This concept, which became known as the “two-Cumorah theory,” proposed the existence of two separate hill Cumorahs—one in Mesoamerica where the last battles were fought and another in upstate New York where Joseph Smith was directed to the plates left there by Moroni. However, that thinking is not a totally accurate assessment because the Book of Mormon speaks of only one hill Cumorah—and it is the same hill that the Jaredites called Ramah (see Ether 15:11). As far as we know, no valid information has come forth between 1823 when Moroni first appeared to Joseph Smith to the present time to suggest that Joseph Smith ever stated that the hill in New York is the hill Cumorah/Ramah where the last battles of the Nephites/Lamanites and Jaredites took place.
Further, as far as we know, when Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith yearly over a four-year period, Moroni never referred to the New York hill as the hill Ramah or hill Cumorah. [Wrong: read two times above #1 and #2] In writing about the hill at a later time, Joseph simply says, “Convenient to the village of Manchester, Ontario county, New York, stands a hill of considerable size, and the most elevated of any in the neighborhood” (Joseph Smith—History 1:51). This statement does not mean that at some point Joseph or other members of the Church did not feel that the hill where the plates were retrieved is not the hill Cumorah referred to in Mormon 6:6. A case in point is a letter written by Joseph Smith to the Church dated September 6, 1842, which is now section 128 of the Doctrine and Covenants. Joseph uses what might be considered poetic, figurative language in this letter when he writes, “And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfillment of the prophets—the book to be revealed” (D&C 128:20). If current members of the Church view this statement as a revelation on Book of Mormon geography, then they would probably not want to entertain the idea that the hills Ramah and Cumorah are in Mexico. On the other hand, if Joseph’s words are considered a generalized statement about events that occurred during the restoration process and leading up to the section 128 central theme of baptism for the dead, then Joseph’s words should not be viewed in connection with Book of Mormon geographical issues. [BOMC wants you to believe the Revelation in D&C 128 really doesn’t really say or mean tidings from Cumorah”]
Compelling Non-Evidence of A Hill Cumorah in Mesoamerica:
BMOC continues, “A hill in Mesoamerica that has received the most attention over the last thirty years as a candidate for the hill Ramah/Cumorah is the Hill Vigia (Va..hee…a) located near the Papaloapan water basin about ninety miles southeast of the city of Veracruz.
David Palmer wrote a book in 1981 called In Search of Cumorah: New Evidences for the Book of Mormon from Ancient Mexico in which he writes: “The impact of placing Mormon’s Cumorah in the State of New York is to grossly distort the geography of the Book of Mormon. Doing this makes it impossible to reconcile the internal geography of the Book of Mormon with actual maps. Without a valid geography of the Book of Mormon there cannot be any serious studies of the correlation between the geography and the Book of Mormon.”1
The Hill Vigia is a rather free standing hill, and with the exception of some volcanic mountains in the area, Vigia is the most prominent. The community of Santiago Tuxtla rests peacefully at the base of the Hill Vigia, and the ancient archaeological Olmec site of Tres Zapotes flanks the opposite side of the hill. Families live on the hillside of Vigia, and cows and other animals graze in its pastures. Springs of water spout up at different places on the hill. The Hill Vigia is considerably larger than the hill in Palmyra, New York. The local people from the town of Santiago Tuxtla require about two hours to walk to the top of the Hill Vigia. From the top of the hill, on a clear day, visitors can observe the plains to the south and the rolling hills that extend to the Gulf of Mexico to the north. [Wow this must be SOME HILL with all that specific information and directions. (NOT) You couldn’t miss it in the middle of Mesoamerica anywhere. Hill Vigia HAS to be the one. They blame us for non-archaeological research, this is insanely inaccurate.]
Proposing the Hill Vigia to be the same hill as the hill Cumorah of the Book of Mormon, Palmer writes: “After examination of satellite pictures, visits to the hill and the ancient mounds which surround it, and analysis of the topography and archaeology of the immediate area, I have become fairly convinced it is the correct spot.”2
Wow, he is fairly convinced, that is good for an educated man isn’t it?
Palmer then proceeds to outline the qualifications necessary for the hill Cumorah preceded by the following statement: “At the present time it does not appear that there is any alternative site which has archaeological support to the degree that the Cerro Vigia does.”3
Wow Even more proof!
Reasons for Labeling the Hill Vigia to Be the Hill Cumorah
A careful reading of the Book of Mormon will pinpoint several requirements for the hill Cumorah, all of which are met by the Hill Vigia and the surrounding area.4 The hill Cumorah must be
1. Near an eastern seacoast. (The Atlantic?) The eastern side of the Gulf of Mexico constitutes an eastern seacoast and is in close proximity to the Hill Vigia.
2. Near both the hill Shim and the narrow neck of land. (Narrow neck of Land is Niagara Peninsula and hill hSim is 1 mile west of NY Hill Cumorah) The Hill Vigia is about sixty miles from the top of the pass that runs through the Isthmus of Tehuantepec.
3. Situated so it overlooks a coastal plain, possibly near other mountains and valleys. (Plains all around Hill Cumorah NY near other drumlins and hills) The Hill Vigia meets those requirements.
4. Located a distance of a one-day journey from a large body of water called the waters of Ripliancum. (One Day journey to Lake Ontario, or Lake Erie, or from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario across the 24 mile Niagara Peninsula.)The Papaloapan water basin that empties into the Gulf of Mexico is about eighteen miles from the base of the Hill Vigia.
5. Located in a land of many waters and rivers. (I choose the Great Lakes and Finger Lakes but I am biased) The Hill Vigia is located in a land of beautiful lakes and picturesque rivers and water falls
6. Located in a land where “fountains” are found. The Hill Vigia is located in a land of pure water where streams of underground water spring forth. Springs are often called fountains. ( Oh no did he say PURE Water? I’m not sure if I can prove that one. Did they make water purity detectors in those days?)
7. Located in an area where an abundance of water is available to provide sustenance for men, women, and children and a military advantage. The Tuxtla Mountains area, where the Hill Vigia is located, meets that requirement.
Side Note from Wikipedia about the Tuxtlas Mountains
The Sierra de Los Tuxtlas (Tuxtlas Mountains) are a volcanic belt and mountain range along the southeastern Veracruz Gulf coast in Eastern Mexico. The Los Tuxtlas Biosphere Reserve (Biósfera Los Tuxtlas) includes the coastal and higher elevations of the Sierra de Los Tuxtlas.
The volcanic mountains were used as a basalt source by the Olmec culture during the Early Formative period (1500 BCE to about 400 BCE). Quarried basalt was transported by raft through a network of rivers, to sites in the Olmec heartland for use in creating monuments, including colossal heads.[2]
Peaks in this range include Volcano Santa Marta and Volcano San Martín Tuxtla, both rising above 1,700 meters. San Martín Tuxtla is the only recently active volcano in the belt, erupting in 1664 and again in May 1793. It is a broad alkaline shield volcano with a one kilometer wide summit. Hundreds of smaller cinder cones are prevalent throughout the Sierra… Source: (I haven’t ever heard the word volcano in the Book of Mormon have you? I have heard the word whirlwinds quite a bit. Isn’t that what they call a tornado. I understand in the Heartland we live in tornado alley. Not many of those in Mesoamerica.
Back to our List of Requirement for the Tuxtlas Hills to be Cumorah in Mexico
8. Located in an area wherein Nephites escaping to the south countries could escape without being captured by the Lamanites. A secluded route between the coast and the Tuxtla Mountains meets this requirement. (Yea I doubt the Nephites could escape from the NY Cumorah in that exact place and manner, so give this one to BOMC.)
9. Large enough for Mormon to view hundreds of thousands of bodies. The Hill Vigia is about twenty-four hundred feet high and fulfills that requirement. (Couldn’t you see hundreds of thousands of bodies in a soccer stadium? How high would the hill need to be to see 500,000 bodies? This could be a tie.)
10. A significant landmark because two nations perished on the spot and because sacred records were hidden there. (Oh yea there are no other sacred records hidden anywhere)
11. Freestanding so people could camp around it. It must also be situated in such a manner that it could serve as a protection for the women and children. The Hill Vigia meets those requirements. (Yes Wordnik says here: “standing or setapart; not attached to anything”. Oh oh, that is how Cumorah in NY is described as well. We win on this one.)
12. Located in a temperate climate because of the absence of any reference to snow or cold in the Book of Mormon. The Tuxtla Mountains area is the “Hawaii of Mexico.”9 (No Snow in the Book of Mormon? Pretend it is not in 1 Nephi 11:8. See my silly “No Snow” blog here. Also the Great Lakes are called “4 Seasons of the USA which includes Hawaii”. It has 4 seasons and not just one so we can account for Alma 46:40 and we can explain migrating beasts like in Ether 9:34 migration is not needed in a temperant climate like found in Mesoamerica. Oh and by the way “rain is mentioned only once and I think Hail may be mentioned as well. Moroni was not a weather man.)
13. Located in an area that is subject to volcanoes and earthquakes, a requirement for the land northward. Mesoamerica is a land of volcanic activity and earthquake eruptions. The San Martin Volcano last erupted in 1793. (Again I say, I haven’t ever heard the word volcano in the Book of Mormon have you? I have heard the word whirlwinds quite a bit. Isn’t that what they call a tornado. I understand in the Heartland we live in tornado alley. Not many of those in Mesoamerica.
Although the above list is compelling, the primary reasons that the hill Cumorah is in the area of the Tuxtla Mountains are the facts that it is the same hill as the hill Ramah of the Jaredites and that it is close to the hill Shim, a hill identified by both the Jaredites and the Nephites. This reasoning simply means that if the Jaredites and the Olmecs are the same people, as defined in Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon, then the hill Cumorah is in the area of Veracruz because that is where the hill Ramah is located. The words Ramah and Vigia have the same meaning—that of a lookout hill, or a hill overlooking a designated area. I am not compelled as your description above could fit over a thousand locations including the place where the real Hill Cumorah is, in Ontario County New York. (Wow the Native Indians of North America call the Niagara Peninsula, as the word Niagara means neck or narrow neck. I think I will take this name over lookout hill if you don’t mind.)
Notes:
1. David A. Palmer, In Search of Cumorah: New Evidences for the Book of Mormon from Ancient Mexico (Bountiful, UT: Horizon Publishers, 1981), 18.
2. Palmer, In Search of Cumorah, 91.
3. Palmer, In Search of Cumorah, 91.
4. See Palmer, In Search of Cumorah, 96–101. In addition to Palmer’s analysis, we have made several editorial comments on the requirements outlined in the text.
Copyright © 2011 by Joseph L. Allen and Blake J. Allen, Authors, Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon. All rights reserved. http://www.bmaf.org/node/414
If you would like more fun you can read a BOFMC KnoWhy. I won’t do the blue as I am very tired. Mayne you can do you own on this one below. It would be fun for you.
BOMC says, There is “no historical evidence that Moroni called the hill ‘Cumorah’ in 1823” (You Read and Decide)
Post contributed by BMC Team November 29, 2018KnoWhy #489
As far as can be determined, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself only associated the hill in New York with the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon towards the end of his life. In an 1842 epistle the Prophet spoke of hearing “Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed” (Doctrine and Covenants 128:20).7 Before then, Joseph left the name of the New York hill where Moroni gave him the plates unnamed in his accounts of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.8 Whether the Prophet arrived at this conclusion about the location of Cumorah by revelation, by conforming to usage that had become common among the early members of the Church about Book of Mormon geography, or in some other way is historically unknown.9
In the decades after Joseph Smith’s death, other prominent early Latter-day Saints, including Lucy Mack Smith,10 Parley P. Pratt,11 and David Whitmer,12 recounted earlier incidents in which the New York hill was identified as Cumorah by the angel Moroni and by Joseph Smith. Since these statements are somewhat late recollections, coming after the identity of Cumorah as a hill near Palmyra, New York, had become widespread, they should be used cautiously.13
Similarly, second and thirdhand sources from after Joseph Smith’s lifetime speak of a hidden cave within the New York drumlin which supposedly contains an abundance of surviving Nephite records (presumably Mormon’s repository described in Mormon 6:6).14 As described by these sources, Joseph and Oliver are said to have entered the cave and beheld this repository after finishing the translation of the Book of Mormon. However, these sources are based on hearsay, and are somewhat ambiguous as to whether Joseph and Oliver’s purported experience was literal or they were taken there in a vision.15 As with other late or second-hand reminiscences describing any hill as Cumorah, these accounts should likewise be viewed cautiously.
The identification of the Hill Cumorah in New York as being the same hill where the Nephites perished has remained commonplace amongst members and leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.16 However, most Church leaders have simply and accurately said that the geography of the Book of Mormon is not revealed.17 Additionally, several Latter-day Saint scholars have questioned whether the hill in New York could feasibly be the hill Cumorah described in the Book of Mormon.
“Those who assume that the final Book of Mormon events took place in what is now the northeastern United States believe that the hill in upstate New York is the only hill called Cumorah,” wrote one historian summarizing the issue. “Others conclude there must be two hills called Cumorah: one in Central America, where they believe the final battles of the Book of Mormon took place; and the other in New York, where Moroni ultimately buried the gold plates he later delivered to Joseph Smith.”19 The Church itself has no official position on this matter, leaving individual Latter-day Saints to decide for themselves which theory they prefer to follow.20
