Cumorah’s Cave & The Stone Box

Those who believe in the Mesoamerican theory of the Book of Mormon don’t believe there was a Cave at Cumorah separate from the stone box at Cumorah where the plates were laid. They pretend the witness of Brigham Young about this large cave and others, was simply a dream of some cave in Mexico somewhere. After you read the following quotes, it will be mighty difficult to think the Cave at Cumorah was simply a dream somewhere in Mexico.

Did you know that the Jaredites hid up their records in this same hill, only they called it Ramah? Ether 15:11. The last battles were fought at Hill Ramah for the Jaredites and Hill Cumorah for the Nephites. Same Hill, same results, same Cave with an additional stone box at a different location.

Video: Mormon Abridging the Plates by Jon McNaughton

“Many have wondered what became of the golden plates following the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon. The plates were deposited in Cumorah’s Cave, Cameron J. Packer wrote in an article for Journal of Book of Mormon Studies.
Packer’s article presents several accounts from church leaders and others about what happened to the plates. One account by Young in the Journal of Discourses, June 17, 1877, reports that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey walked into a cave at the hill and found themselves in a room full of other ancient records, “probably many wagon loads,” the account said.

They saw sacred objects like the Sword of Laban and “tons of choice treasures and records,” Wilford Wood wrote in his journal on Dec. 11, 1869. “By looking at all the accounts and context in which they were shared, one can see that regardless of the meta-physical nature of Cumorah’s cave, it has served to teach important gospel principles — principles such as God’s miraculous dealings with man, his dominion over all things, consecration, and continuing revelation,” Packer wrote.” Cameron J. Packer Journal of Book of Mormon Studies.

They also believe the Sword of Laban and the Liahona fit in the Stone box with the plates and the Urim and Thummim. They believe this long sword of Laban would have to fit in the Stone Box because there is no large Cave at Cumorah as they pretend. Nowhere in the History of the Church will you find someone suggesting the Liahona and Sword were with the Gold Plates in the stone box, but only in the Cave of Cumorah. My Understanding is there were two distinct locations in the Hill Cumorah, one for the Stone Box with the Plates, breastplate and spectacles, and another place for all the many records including the Liahona, Sword of Laban, and many other Jaredite and Nephite plates and parchments, is critical to your correct understanding of Church History.

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Final Battles in Mexico?

Did you know that Mesoamerican theorist also believe the final battles of the Nephites and Lamanites happened somewhere in Mexico and not at the Hill Cumorah in New York? In my opinion it is simply silly, but they are allowed to share their opinion.

Orson Pratt said, “The Hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground. . . .

These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417)

Understanding the 2 different Departments of the Hill Cumorah

1- The Cave at Cumorah
The Great Depository of the Numerous Volumes
The Grand Repository of All the Numerous Records
Another Department of the Hill

“The final struggles between Nephites and Lamanites were waged in the vicinity of the Hill Cumorah, in what is now the State of New York, resulting in the destruction of the Nephites as a nation, about 400 A.D. The last Nephite representative was Moroni, who, wandering for safety from place to place, daily expecting death from the victorious Lamanites, wrote the concluding parts of the Book of Mormon, and hid the record in Cumorah. It was this same Moroni who, as a resurrected being, gave the records into the hands of Joseph Smith in the present dispensation.” James Talmage Articles of Faith

“For many decades the Nephites retreated before their aggressive foes, making their way north-eastward through what is now the United States. About 400 A.D. the last great battle was fought near the hill Cumorah; and the Nephite nation became extinct. The degenerate remnant of Lehi’s posterity, the Lamanites or American Indians, have continued until this day. Moroni, the last of the Nephite prophets, hid away the record of his people in the hill Cumorah, whence it has been brought forth by divine direction in the current dispensation. That record is now before the world translated through the gift and power of God, and published to the edification of all nations, as the BOOK OF MORMON.”  Jesus the Christ, p. 743

 “Joseph then went to the locality specified by the angel, on the side of a hill called in the record Cumorah, and immediately identified the spot that had been shown him in vision. By the aid of a lever he removed a large stone, which proved to be the cover of a stone box wherein lay the plates and other articles described by Moroni. The angel appeared at the place, and forbade Joseph to remove the contents of the box at that time. The young man replaced the massive stone lid and left the spot. Four years later, the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate were delivered into Joseph’s keeping by the angel Moroni. This Moroni, who now came as a resurrected being, was the last survivor of the Nephite nation; he had completed the record, and then shortly before his death had hidden away the same in the hill Cumorah, whence it was brought forth through his instrumentality and delivered to the modern prophet and seer, Joseph Smith, September 22, 1827. That record, or, strictly speaking a part thereof, is now accessible to all; it has been translated through divine instrumentality and is now published in many languages as the Book of Mormon.” Jesus the Christ, p. 767

2-The Stone Box at Cumorah
Hid the Record in Cumorah
Hid away the record of his people in the hill Cumorah
The spot that had been shown him in vision.
A stone box wherein lay the plates, breastplate, and spectacles only described by Moroni and seen by Joseph Smith.

A Prophet at a General Conference shares his testimony that there is only one Hill Cumorah. 

“Millennia ago he declared: “There shall none come into this land [he was speaking of America] save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord… In the western part of the state of New York near Palmyra is a prominent hill known as the “hill Cumorah.” (Morm. 6:6.) On July twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiring with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries ago—events which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation… Thus perished at the foot of Cumorah the remnant of the once mighty Jaredite nation, of whom the Lord had said, “There shall be none greater … upon all the face of the earth.” (Ether 1:43.)… This second civilization to which I refer, the Nephites, flourished in America between 600 B.C. and A.D. 400. Their civilization came to an end for the same reason, at the same place, and in the same manner as did the Jaredites…

The tragic fate of the Jaredite and the Nephite civilizations is proof positive that the Lord meant it when he said that this “is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.” (Ether 2:9.)

This information, wrote Moroni, addressing himself to us who today occupy this land, “cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles” (now, Gentiles is the term used by the Book of Mormon prophets to refer to the present inhabitants of America and to the peoples of the old world from which they came)…

Now my beloved brethren and sisters everywhere, both members of the Church and nonmembers, I bear you my personal witness that I know that the things I have presented to you today are true—both those pertaining to past events and those pertaining to events yet to come. The issue we face is clear and well defined. The choice is ours. The question is: Shall we of this dispensation repent and obey the laws of the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, or shall we continue to defy them until we ripen in iniquity?

That we will repent and obey and thereby qualify to receive the blessings promised to the righteous in this land, I humbly pray in the name of Jesus Christ, our Redeemer. Amen.” America’s Destiny Marion G. Romney Oct 1975

Here is another witness of only one Hill Cumorah

“The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground… These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and it’s contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” 1866 Orson Pratt Millennial Star (28 (27): 417) In relation to these records, Orson Pratt commented in 1873: “But will these things be brought to light? Yes. The records, now slumbering in the hill Cumorah, will be brought forth by the power of God, to fulfil the words of our text, that ‘the knowledge of God shall cover the earth, as the waters cover the deep.'” (Orson Pratt, May 18, 1873, in Journal of Discourses 16:57)

Hill Cumorah Cave

There really was a “Cave of Records” in the Hill Cumorah in up state New York. Joseph Smith and many others visited it. It has been spoken of all throughout Church History. It was not somewhere in Mesoamerica, it was in the Hill Cumorah in Ontario County, New York. Below are quotes offering strong indication that the Hill where the Jaredites and the Nephites were destroyed is also the hill where Joseph found the plates and where a great depository of records of both races were held.

“Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: “This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.” I tell you this as coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it just as well as we understand coming to this meeting. . . . [Don] Carlos Smith was a young man of as much veracity as any young man we had, and he was a witness to these things. Samuel Smith saw some things, Hyrum saw a good many things, but Joseph was the leader.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 17 June 1877

“President [Heber C.] Kimball talked familiarly to the brethren about Father Smith, [Oliver] Cowdery, and others walking into the hill Cumorah and seeing records upon records piled upon table[s,] they walked from cell to cell and saw the records that were piled up. . . .” Manuscript History of Brigham Young, 5 May 1867

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“In his journal, Wilford Woodruff recounted what he had heard Brigham Young say about the cave: President Young said in relation to Joseph Smith returning the Plates of the Book of Mormon that He did not return them to the box from wh[ence?] He had Received [them]. But He went [into] a Cave in the Hill Comoro with Oliver Cowdry & deposited those plates upon a table or shelf. In that room were deposited a large amount of gold plates Containing sacred records & when they first visited that Room the sword of Laban was Hanging upon the wall & when they last visited it the sword was drawn from the scabbard and [laid?] upon a table and a Messenger who was the keeper of the room informed them that that sword would never be returned to its scabbard until the Kingdom of God was Established upon the Earth & until it reigned triumphant over Every Enemy. Joseph Smith said that Cave Contained tons of Choice Treasures & records.” Wilford Woodruff Journal, 11 December 1869

“A southern Utah Saint, Jesse Nathaniel Smith, heard Brigham Young speak in Cedar City, Utah, and recorded: “I heard him [Brigham Young] at an evening meeting in Cedar City describe an apartment in the Hill Cumorah that some of the brethren had been permitted to enter. He said there was great wealth in the room in sacred implements, vestments, arms, precious metals and precious stones, more than a six-mule team could draw.” Jesse Nathaniel Smith Journal, February 1874

“In response to a Brother Mills statement about the handcart pioneers, Heber C. Kimball said: “How does it compare with the vision that Joseph and others had, when they went into a cave in the hill Cumorah, and saw more records than ten men could carry? There were books piled up on tables, book upon book. Those records this people will yet have, if they accept of the Book of Mormon and observe its precepts, and keep the commandments.” Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 28 September 1856

“But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and its contents put under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.” Orson Pratt, The Contributor, September 1882

“Will these things be brought to light? Yes. The records, now slumbering in the hill Cumorah, will be brought forth by the power of God, to fulfill the words of our text, that ‘the knowledge of God shall cover the earth, as the waters cover the great deep.” Orson Pratt, in Journal of Discourses, 16:57

“In his book Reminiscences of Joseph, the Prophet, and the Coming Forth of the Book of Mormon, Edward Stevenson relates an interview with David Whitmer in 1877:

It was likewise stated to me by David Whitmer in the year 1877 that Oliver Cowdery told him that the Prophet Joseph and himself had seen this room and that it was filled with treasure, and on a table therein were the breastplate and the sword of Laban, as well as the portion of gold plates not yet translated, and that these plates were bound by three small gold rings, and would also be translated, as was the first portion in the days of Joseph. When they are translated much useful information will be brought to light. But till that day arrives, no Rochester adventurers shall ever see them or the treasures, although science and mineral rods testify that they are there.” Edward Stevenson, Reminiscences of Joseph, the Prophet, 1877

“In an interview with P. Wilhelm Poulson, David Whitmer gave another account of the cave:

[Poulson]: Where are the plates now?

[Whitmer]: In a cave, where the angel has hidden them up till the time arrives when the plates, which are sealed, shall be translated. God will yet raise up a mighty one, who shall do his work till it is finished and Jesus comes again.

[Poulson]: Where is that cave?

[Whitmer]: In the State of New York.

[Poulson]: In the Hill of Comorah?

[Whitmer]: No, but not far away from that place.”

William Horne Dame Diary, 14 January 1855

“Attended meeting a discourse from W. W. Phelps. He related a story told him by Hyrum Smith which was as follows: Joseph, Hyrum, Cowdery & Whitmere went to the hill Cormorah. As they were walking up the hill, a door opened and they walked into a room about 16 ft square. In that room was an angel and a trunk. On that trunk lay a book of Mormon & gold plates, Laban’s sword, Aaron’s breastplate.”

“Although not a member of the church, Elizabeth Kane lived in St. George, Utah, and entertained the company of Brigham Young. She recorded the following discussion:

I asked where the plates were now, and saw in a moment from the expression of the countenances around that I had blundered. But I was answered that they were in a cave; that Oliver Cowdery though now an apostate would not deny that he had seen them. He had been to the cave. . . . Brigham Young’s tone was so solemn that I listened bewildered like a child to the evening witch stories of its nurse. . . . Brigham Young said that when Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith were in the cave this third time, they could see its contents more distinctly than before. . . . It was about fifteen feet high and round its sides were ranged boxes of treasure. In the centre was a large stone table empty before, but now piled with similar gold plates, some of which lay scattered on the floor beneath. Formerly the sword of Laban hung on the walls sheathed, but it was now unsheathed and lying across the plates on the table; and One that was with them said it was never to be sheathed until the reign of Righteousness upon the earth.” Elizabeth Kane Journal, 15 January 1873 Spelling not corrected.

There was a cave of records in the New York Hill Cumorah where all the Nephite and Jaredite records were kept. The witnesses of Church History have spoken. May your heart be open to understanding the significance of the wonderful hill we call Cumorah, or Ramah!

See my blog on Ramah and Cumorah Here:

Mormon’s Cave by Jon McNaughton