I was asked by a friend of mine, Lowell Snow (FDH), the question below in red. I replied to him with some of this in the comments section of my blog from a little while ago titled, “Heartland- Divine Documents”. I decided to add to this answer with more information below which I think will make a good article for you to have, about answers to Heartland Geography Questions which anyone may have.
My previous blog is here titled “Heartland- Divine Documents” If you would like to read it first and the five documents I speak about are listed below:
Rian, thank you for sharing what you refer to as “Heartland – Divine Documents” and as “documents, revelations, epistles and letters.” I have read these historical documents before, but had never thought of them as having “divine” origins or being “revelations.” Perhaps I’m not understanding you correctly – are you suggesting these documents came as revelations from the Lord? (FDH)
An Attempt to Catch Me?
Of course I believe my friend was trying to have me say and imply that all the documents above that I call “Divine Documents”, mean I think they are all revelations from God, and thus they are doctrine of the church. That is not what I said. These documents are as I said above, documents, revelations, epistles and letters. For example in D&C 125, in its header is says, “Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, March 1841, concerning the Saints in the territory of Iowa.” I didn’t write that, but it is the header of D&C 125 that is included in our canonized scriptures. I don’t believe these headers are necessarily scripture, but someone of great spiritually wrote these headers , so the word Revelation for Section 125 makes sense to me.
Here is My Longer Answer.
Dear FDH: I already explained to you. The documents were not all revelations from God. Are you saying because Joseph didn’t say or write things as a prophet they are possibly false? Did someone lie when they wrote Joseph’s words down? They are divine because they are correct in my opinion. Divine can mean inspired, truthful, something holy etc. Why don’t you pray about the documents and let me know how you feel about them. Where do you feel the BofM events happened or do you not really care? Do you believe Joseph when he said it is ” proof of the divine authenticity” in his letter to Emma?
Do you believe Wilford Woodruff’s words?
“Brother Joseph had a vision respecting the person. He said he was a white Lamanite. The curse was taken from him or at least in part. He was killed in battle with an arrow. The arrow was found among his ribs. One of his thigh bones was broken. This was done by a stone flung from a sling in battle years before his death. His name was Zelph.
Some of his bones were brought into the Camp and the thigh bone which was broken was put into my wagon and I carried it to Missouri. Zelph was a large thick set man and a man of God. He was a warrior under the great prophet Onandagus that was known from the hill Cumorah or east sea to the Rocky mountains. The above knowledge Joseph received in a vision.” Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, ed. Scott G. Kenney, 1:10)
Note: Joseph Smith’s account of the history of Zelph was recorded by Wilford Woodruff in the Documentary History of the Church and in the JSP here: The following is President Woodruff’s testimony regarding the truthfulness of that history, particularly the events that transpired during Zion’s Camp:
“I am now called to preside over the only Temple there is on the earth, built for the salvation of the living and the dead. There are but a few of us living who were in Zion’s Camp. I will here say that God has inspired me to keep a journal and write the history of this Church, and I warn the future historians to give credence to my history; for my testimony is true, and the truth of its record will be manifest in the world to come. All the words of the Lord will be fulfilled upon the nations, which are written in this book.” Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff, His Life and Labors, comp. Matthias F. Cowley, 500
See the Amazing Warning to Historians Above?
Does anyone dispute Elder Woodruff’s testimony?
Heber C. Kimball said, “It was made known to Joseph that he [Zelph] had been an officer who fell in battle, in the last destruction among the Lamanites, and his name was Zelph. This caused us to rejoice much, to think that God was so mindful of us as to show these things to his servant. Brother Joseph had enquired of the Lord and it was made known in a vision.” Heber C. Kimball, Times and Seasons, 6:788
As is quoted above as “a vision”, was Wilford or Heber or Brother McBride making this up? “Tuesday 3 visited the mounds. A skeleton was dug up. Joseph said his name was Zelph a great warrior under the Prophet Omandagus. [sp] An arrow was found in his Ribs which he said he supposed occasioned his death said he was killed in battle. Said he was a man of God and the curse was taken off or in part he was a white Lamanite was known from the Atlantic to the Rocky Mountains.” Reuben McBride, Reuben McBride’s Journal, LDS Church Archives
Moroni said “And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” Moroni 10:5. I believe these quotes and epistles and letters and revelations and journal entries and documents. Do you? If not, pray about it and you may know whether they are true or not. If you believe these documents are true, you must believe that some of the events of the Book of Mormon happened in North America.
I believe the Joseph Smith Papers quote below, do you?
“On the top of the mound were stones which presented the appearance of three altars having been erected one above the other, according to the ancient order; and the remains of bones were strewn over the surface of the ground. The brethren procured a shovel and a hoe, and removing the earth to the depth of about one foot, discovered the skeleton of a man, almost entire, and between his ribs the stone point of a Lamanitish arrow, which evidently produced his death. Elder Burr Riggs retained the arrow. The contemplation of the scenery around us produced peculiar sensations in our bosoms; and subsequently the visions of the past being opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty, I discovered that the person whose skeleton was before us was a white Lamanite, a large, thick-set man, and a man of God. His name was Zelph. He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky mountains. The curse was taken from Zelph, or, at least, in part-one of his thigh bones was broken by a stone flung from a sling, while in battle, years before his death. He was killed in battle by the arrow found among his ribs, during the last great struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites.” Joseph Smith Papers History, 1838–1856, volume A-1 [23 December 1805–30 August 1834], Page 483
I believe Joseph Fielding Smith, do you?
“In the face of this evidence coming from the Prophet Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer, we cannot say that the Nephites and Lamanites did not possess the territory of the United States and that the Hill Cumorah is in Central America. Neither can we say that the great struggle which resulted in the destruction of the Nephites took place in Central America. If Zelph, a righteous man, was fighting under a great prophet-general in the last battles between the Nephites and Lamanites; if that great prophet-general was known from the Rocky Mountains to “the Hill Cumorah or eastern sea,” then some of those battles, and evidently the final battles did take place within the borders of what is now the United States.
There were no righteous prophets, save the Three Nephites, after the death of Moroni, and we learn that Zelph was slain during one of these battles during the great last struggle between the Nephites and Lamanites and was buried near the Illinois River. In the Book of Mormon story the Lamanites were constantly crowding the Nephites back towards the north and east. If the battles in which Zelph took part were fought in the country traversed by the Zion’s Camp, then we have every reason to believe from what is written in the Book of Mormon, that the Nephites were forced farther and farther to the north and east until they found themselves in the land of Ripliancum, which both Ether and Mormon declare to us was the land of Ramah or Cumorah, a land of “many waters,” which “by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all.” This being true, what would be more natural then that Moroni, like his father Mormon, would deposit the plates in the land where the battles came to an end and the Nephites were destroyed? This Moroni says he did, and from all the evidence in the Book of Mormon, augmented by the testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith, these final battles took place in the territory known as the United States and in the neighborhood of the Great Lakes and hills of Western New York. And here Moroni found the resting place for the sacred instruments which had been committed to his care.” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 3 Ch. 12
In response to this quote our Mesoamerican Specialist John Sorensen said, “There remain Latter-day Saints who insist [I Insist] that the final destruction of the Nephites took place in New York, but any such idea is manifestly absurd.[No it isn’t] Hundreds of thousands of Nephites traipsing across the Mississippi Valley to New York, pursued (why?) by hundreds of thousands of Lamanites, is a scenario worthy only of a witless sci-fi movie, not of history.” John L. Sorenson, Mormon’s Codex (Deseret Book, 2013), p. 688. My quotes in brackets []
I believe Mark E. Petersen Do you?
“I do not believe that the classrooms or the pulpits of our Church are for laboratory purposes in which to experiment with new doctrines and speculative notions. They are exclusively for the use of those who are willing to convert men and women and boys and girls to the truth. . . . I do not believe we should give credence to the highly speculative theories about Book of Mormon geography. I do not believe that there were two Hill Cumorahs, one in Central America and the other one up in New York, for the convenience of the Prophet Joseph Smith, so that the poor boy would not have to walk clear to Central America to get the gold plates. I do not believe we can be good Latter-day Saints and question the integrity of Joseph Smith. I do not believe we can be good Latter-day Saints and question the testimony of the eleven witnesses of the Book of Mormon. I do not believe you have a testimony of the truth if you question the accuracy of the translation of the Book of Mormon.” Mark E. Petersen LDS Conference Reports, Sunday afternoon, April 5, 1953
And I believe Joseph Fielding Smith when he said,
“Because of this theory some members of the Church have become confused and greatly disturbed in their faith in the Book of Mormon.”
Has your faith been disturbed or do you believe Elder Smith? All who pray about these things will know that the events of the Book of Mormon more than likely happened in North America.
“…This modernistic theory of necessity, in order to be consistent, must place the waters of Ripliancum and the Hill Cumorah some place within the restricted territory of Central America, notwithstanding the teachings of the Church to the contrary for upwards of 100 years. Because of this theory some members of the Church have become confused and greatly disturbed in their faith in the Book of Mormon. It is for this reason that evidence is here presented to show that it is not only possible that these places could be located as the Church has held during the past century, but that in very deed such is the case… It is known that the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites were destroyed is the hill where the Jaredites were also destroyed. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Ramah. It was approximately near to the waters of Ripliancum, which the Book of Ether says, “by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all…
It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains. Moreover, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record, definitely declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon. Further, the fact that all of his associates from the beginning down have spoken of it as the identical hill where Mormon and Moroni hid the records, must carry some weight. It is difficult for a reasonable person to believe that such men as Oliver Cowdery. Brigham Young, Parley P. Pratt, Orson Pratt, David Whitmer, and many others, could speak frequently of the Spot where the Prophet Joseph Smith obtained the plates as the Hill Cumorah, and not be corrected by the Prophet, if that were not the fact. That they did speak of this hill in the days of the Prophet in this definite manner is an established record of history.” Doctrines of Salvation Joseph Fielding Smith Chapter 12
I also believe an Apostle who said,
“The United States is the promised land foretold in the Book of Mormon—a place where divine guidance directed inspired men to create the conditions necessary for the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.” Elder L. Tom Perry Ensign Dec. 2012
And I believe President Nelson as an Apostle and as Pres of the Quorum of the 12,
when he has spoken 5 or 6 times with a quote similar to this. That North America is a choice land. “The Book of Mormon reveals the inheritance of Joseph, son of Israel, who was not forgotten when land was distributed to the tribes of Israel. This was promised in the Abrahamic covenant. Because… Joseph’s inheritance was to be a land choice above all others. It was choice not because of beauty or wealth of natural resources, but because it was chosen to be the repository of sacred writings on golden plates from which the Book of Mormon would one day come. Choice because it would eventually host the world headquarters of the Restored Church of Jesus Christ in the latter days. And it was choice because it was a land of liberty for those who worship the Lord and keep His commandments.” – President Russell M. Nelson, President of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, Yes, Mormons are Christians, Legends Library [2017], 60; emphasis added.
I have other many additional quotes here or here similar to these that share information about the Book of Mormon in North America.
You are welcome to answer my questions if you would like.
End of comments on website. Below I will lightly touch on a few additional questions that you as a reader may have. Details of each may be found by searching in the magnification glass logo at the top of this website.
A Mesoamerican Response about the Heartland
John Sorensen denies the Heartland model by saying, “There remain Latter-day Saints who insist that the final destruction of the Nephites took place in New York, but any such idea is manifestly absurd. Hundreds of thousands of Nephites traipsing across the Mississippi Valley to New York, pursued (why?) by hundreds of thousands of Lamanites, is a scenario worthy only of a witless sci-fi movie, not of history.” John L. Sorenson, Mormon’s Codex (Deseret Book, 2013), p. 688.
Hinterlands
There are good people who lived as Lamanites with the blood of Lehi in South and Central America which we call the hinterlands. “Hinterlands is defined here as meaning the unknown area of North and South America that are not within the scope of the writings of the Book of Mormon. In other words, since we believe main events of the Book of Mormon happened in a limited area of North America around the Great Lakes in the east, and Ohio, Indiana, Iowa and Missouri to the west, and south in Tennessee, West Virginia, Georgia, and Florida, all other areas will be discussed as “The Hinterlands”. We propose that Mesoamerica is the Hinterlands along with many other areas of the continent. As Mormon has said, “…I shall take from the plates of Nephi; and I cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people (Words of Mormon 1:5). There are many people in South and Central America that are Lamanites and part of the Hinterlands.” Jonathan Neville
Abstract From Mesoamerican Perspective:
by Mark A Wright a believer in the Mesoamerican Theory.
“The best available evidence for the Book of Mormon continues to support a limited Mesoamerican model. However, Alma 63 indicates that there was a massive northward migration in the mid-first century bc. I argue that these north-bound immigrants spread out over the centuries and established settlements that were geographically distant from the core Nephite area, far beyond the scope of the text of the Book of Mormon. I introduce the Hinterland Hypothesis and argue that it can harmonize the Mesoamerican evidence for the Book of Mormon with Joseph Smith’s statements concerning Nephite and Lamanite material culture in North America. Archaeological and anthropological evidence is used to demonstrate that migrations and cultural influence did in fact spread northward from Mesoamerica into North America in pre-Columbian times.” Mark A. Wright Read Mark Wright’s complete Mesoamerican theory of the Hinterlands here.” https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/heartland-as-hinterland-the-mesoamerican-core-and-north-american-periphery-of-book-of-mormon-geography/
Defining Hinterlands from a Heartland Perspective
by Jonathan Neville a believer in the Heartland Model of the Book of Mormon
“Hinterlands is defined here as meaning the unknown area of North and South America that are not within the scope of the writings of the Book of Mormon. In other words, since we believe main events of the Book of Mormon happened in a limited area of North America around the Great Lakes in the east, and Ohio, Indiana, Iowa and Missouri to the west, and south in Tennessee, West Virginia, Georgia, and Florida, all other areas will be discussed as “The Hinterlands”. We propose that Mesoamerica is the Hinterlands along with many other areas of the continent. As Mormon has said, “…I shall take from the plates of Nephi; and I cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people (Words of Mormon 1:5). There are many people in South and Central America that are Lamanites and part of the Hinterlands.”
In other other words, if the Book of Mormon events took place in Mesoamerica, then every other area would be the “Hinterlands” where other Lamanites may have migrated and lived. If however the events of the Book of Mormon took place in the Heartland of the United States (As we believe they did), then every other area outside of this limited Heartland area would contain migrating Lamanites, including the western United States, Canada, Mexico, and South and Central America. Heartland Core – Where the main Nephite and Lamanite events occurred! Mesoamerican Periphery – Where Nephites and Lamanites migrated to outside of this core! (See map above). Jonathan Neville
Please read my entire blog here on the Heartland Theory.
New York Cumorah
“I think the statements by the prophets and apostles about the Hill Cumorah being in New York, starting with 1835 Letter VII and continuing through General Conference in the 1970s, are conclusive and should be accepted by all LDS. The objections to that position–that the New York hill doesn’t match the text and/or is too far from some other preferred setting–are unpersuasive because they are not supported by facts and they use circular reasoning to confirm the predetermined conclusions about the other preferred settings.
I also think the statements by the prophets and apostles about the identity and location of the Lamanites fall into two camps. Joseph Smith was specific when he identified the Lamanites as the American Indians living in the United States. He never identified any other group as Lamanites. However, some of his contemporaries, and several later prophets and apostles, have identified groups throughout the Western Hemisphere and even in the Pacific islands as Lamanites (or descendants of Lehi). See D&C 28, 30, and 32
Read my blog about One Hill Cumorah: Here and Here and Here
DNA
I don’t think these two camps conflict. Joseph (and the Lord, in the D&C 28, 30, and 32) were specific because they were identifying people who had the highest concentration of Lehi’s blood. Others were more generalized because they were identifying people who have, or may have, more attenuated heredity linked to Lehi, even though it doesn’t show up in their DNA.
The generalized Lamanite statements have no bearing on the New York Cumorah issue one way or the other, because a New York Cumorah can coexist with a wide dispersal of Lehi’s posterity.
However, I think Joseph Smith’s specific statements about the Lamanites fully corroborate his statements on the North American setting generally and the New York Cumorah specifically.
The first response to criticism based on DNA is that we don’t know what DNA Lehi’s group brought with them. To write the famous Wentworth letter, Joseph Smith edited an earlier pamphlet by Orson Pratt. Orson had written, “The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem, about six-hundred years before Christ, being Israelites, principally the descendants of Joseph.” Joseph Smith changed that to read “The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem, about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites, of the descendants of Joseph.” This is a significant change. Joseph Smith is telling us that Lehi’s group were not all Israelites. And we don’t even know what DNA markers the Israelite portion had.
The second response is that DNA only preserves limited markers; it’s not a complete genealogy.
There is controversy about the X2 haplotype that is beyond the scope of this post, but if anyone’s interested, we can discuss it in another post. The controversy involves the split between different groups with distinctive X2 haplotype attributes. The prevailing view, based on mutation rates derived from evolutionary theory and the millions of years it has taken to evolve, holds that the X2 in the Americas split off 10,000 years or more before the present time. This would mean Lehi’s group was too recent so the ancient American people must have descended from another unknown group that had the X2 haplotype. The alternative view, based on mutation rates derived from observation, concludes that the X2 haplotype split off from the Middle-Eastern group around 600 B.C.” Jonathan Neville
More detail about DNA on my blog here or here or here
Read more here from my blog titled, UNDERSTANDING THE MESOAMERICAN THEORY
Source of some DNA information: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics
Hemispheric Model of Book of Mormon Geography
“Evidence indicates that early members of the Church did not pay a great deal of attention to Book of Mormon details about distances.[p] The “Hemispheric” or “Two-Continent” model proposes that Book of Mormon lands stretch many thousands of miles over much of South and North America. There is no first hand, verifiable statement by Joseph Smith endorsing this view. One of the earliest advocates of a hemispheric setting was the young missionary Orson Pratt, who as early as 1832 publicly promoted the idea that Lehi “crossed the water into South America”.[88] For some who read the Book of Mormon, with maps of the Western Hemisphere in view, the Isthmus of Panama seems an easy fit for the Book of Mormon’s “narrow neck of land”. Pratt claimed that the “running battle”, culminating in the destruction of the Nephite nation, started at “the Isthmus of Darien” (Panama) and “ended at Manchester” (western New York).[89] Pratt never attributed his geography (or one like it) to Joseph Smith. Pratt in fact, indicated that the South American landing idea was supposition, not revelation.[90] Pratt’s geographic views were published in the 1879 edition of the Book of Mormon, but retracted from later editions.” Hemispheric Models Wikipedia
Today not one of the maps representing all the various geography of the Book of Mormon believe in the Hemispheric Model. Not even the Mesoamericans or the Heartlanders believe the Hemispheric Model any more because the vast distance in miles make it impossible to say all of North America is where the Nephites lived and and the Lamanites lived in South America. More Here:
Narrow Neck of Land
“One of the most common questions asked about the North American setting is, “what about the narrow neck of land?” People have been taught to think the Book of Mormon describes two large land masses connected by the “narrow neck of land.” The hourglass shape has been depicted in many LDS publications. When we look on a globe, we immediately think of Panama as a narrow neck of land connecting North and South America. However, scholars have pointed out that a hemispheric interpretation of Book of Mormon geography contradicts the text; the distances are simply too great.” Moroni’s America page 20
“It is one thing to recognize the text does not support a 9,000-mile-long hemispheric geography—typified by Orson Pratt’s concept that South America was Lamanite territory, North America was Nephite territory, and Panama was the narrow neck of land between them[i]—and something altogether different to presume that the text supports only a territory 600 miles by 300 miles. Recognizing that such a limitation is set by Sorenson’s assumptions, not the text, the filter is still useful for providing a feasible range of distances in the real world. The limited geography Mesoamerican models such as Sorenson’s easily pass through this filter.
By comparison, the American model contemplates a distance of about 750 miles between Zarahemla and Cumorah. The land of Nephi, including the city Lehi-Nephi, would be about 500 miles southeast from Zarahemla and 700 miles south of Cumorah. These distances are reasonably close to Sorenson’s estimates (although in entirely different configurations), and well short of the continental distances that the filter rejects.” Moroni’s America page 321
[i] Orson Pratt, A[n] Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions, 1840, http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/appendix-orson-pratt-an-interesting-account-of-several-remarkable-visions-1840
See my blog here about the narrow neck of land.
Blog here about all necks lines and passes
