“In Joseph Smith’s day, some individuals claimed that they had a gift to “see,” or receive divine or supernatural messages, through seer stones. These beliefs came from the Bible and from European cultural traditions brought to early America by immigrants.” Church History Topics-Seer Stones. Many so-called seer stones or peep-stones were found all over New York. Joseph Smith is known to have a brown and a white stone that were not used for translation.
Are we Entitled to our own Seer Stone?
“Joseph Smith, Jr. said, every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness.” – Prophet Brigham Young, “History of Brigham Young,” Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star, v. 26, February 20, 1864
“The power of seership is one of the greatest gifts ever given to man; and the time is not far distant when every man who bears the Priesthood will be a seer. But it can only be when men have proved themselves able to withstand all of the false deceptions of the devil. Today the powers of crystal ball gazers, astrologers, ouija boards, etc., are abounding because men have forsaken or rejected the true seers of God. Thousands of people seek unto ‘wizards who peep and mutter’ etc., but they will not seek unto the living God. I can say to all the inhabitants of the earth that before what is called spiritualism was ever known in America, I told the people that if they would not believe the revelations that God had given, He would suffer the devil to give revelations that they–priests and people would follow after. . . I told the people that as true as God lived, if they would not have the truth they would have error sent to them, and they would believe it.” (Brigham Young, Des. News, June 18, 1871, p. 308) (See Revelation 2:17 and D&C 130:11)
What is Doctrine and what is simply Opinion? We can know through Personal Revelation.
The Church’s recent “Book of Mormon Translation” essay says many things that I believe are opinion and suggestion based to help us in our research and study. Just like with Geography, I don’t believe it’s necessary that the Brethren will tell us things that don’t relate to our Salvation. I also believe that many intellects and historians suggest to the Brethren ideas and suggestions and when our Prophets and Apostles feel it is doctrine they will tell us.
Pres. Nelson said, “You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.
I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.” Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives by President Russell M. Nelson
In the Translation Essay mentioned above, Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf said, “The other instrument, which Joseph Smith discovered in the ground years before he retrieved the gold plates, was a small oval stone, or “seer stone.” As a young man during the 1820s, Joseph Smith, like others in his day, used a seer stone to look for lost objects and buried treasure. As Joseph grew to understand his prophetic calling, he learned that he could use this stone for the higher purpose of translating scripture.”
In red above is possible information from Church Historians who explain history and other things to the Brethren who ask, or ask to be informed. It could also be true, but I don’t believe it is doctrine. No where in scripture will you find the information in red above.
I believe Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim and by the power of the Lord translated the Book of Mormon. Even though I believe Joseph had a seer stone or two, I don’t believe he necessarily used that stone to translate the plates.
I love Elder Uchtdorf’s comparison with seer stones and cell phones, as that makes sense we can understand in today’s world. I know the Lord can use any object He desires to share revelation with Prophets. I believe what Elder Uchtdorf’s words are very important to study about the translation, that will have a great deal to do with my learning as I pray to know more. This comparison is good, as the righteous have been promised a seer stone eventually.
See D&C 130:10-11 here: “Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known; And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.”
Like I have said many times, if the Prophets and Apostles tell me it is doctrine that the main Book of Mormon events happened in Mesoamerica, or if they tell me that at one time Adam was an ape, or that only a seer stone was used to translate the Book of Mormon, or that Joseph Smith never looked at the plates but he just read the words off of a rock, or that Noah’s flood was not real, I would have a hard time believing it as it doesn’t make sense, but with much prayer and study I would follow the living Prophet Russell M. Nelson and the apostles who speak the truth to us. They also expect us to make good decisions and not have to be told all things.
See my blogs here: https://www.bofm.blog/7-first-hand-witnesses-of-the-interpreters/
Interpreters or Urim & Thummim = Spectacles fastened to a Breastplate
From the scriptures we learn that Joseph used the spectacles attached to the breastplate called Interpreters for the proper translation. “Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.” JSH1:75*
“Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” JSH 1:35
Joseph Fielding Smith said,
“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22–24. These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Doctrines of Salvation,” Vol. 3, 225-26).
About SITH. (Stone in the Hat Theory) by Jonathan Neville
“Have you ever thought about how silly the seer stone in a hat really is? The idea that whole sentences appeared on the 3x4x5cm oval shaped opaque stone is totally wrong for many reasons.
The Book of Mormon didn’t have punctuation. It was added by the typesetter. Some say the average sentence length is about 25 words. That many words wouldn’t fit on a small object unless it was a size 1 font and that would be unreadable. It would also be very hard to read at the ends of the oval where it curves from the flatter part of the stone with the best chance for some kind of focal distance.
No special lighting was required to use the Urim and Thummim or Liahona (words would appear on spindle from time to time) or a modern-day teleprompter? Why would God provide an underpowered seer stone that couldn’t be read in normal lighting conditions?
The seer stone in a hat story is simply an attempt to discredit the truth and destroy Joseph Smith. Sadly, Intellectuals and scholars are trying to hijack church history.
Joseph’s history in the PGP uses the term Urim and Thummim 6 times–never the seer stone. With your head buried in a hat, the focal distance would be too close, out of focus, and unreadable! It would also be hard for the scribe to hear your muffled voice buried in a hat.
I’m sick of Sunday School teachers saying the seer stone in a hat is like your cell phone screen. You can’t read it very well in broad daylight. That is because your phone is designed for long battery life. If your phone had enough power you could read the screen on a sunny day. Also, Joseph was inside a house with small windows and low lighting conditions. Why would he bury his face in a hat with even less light?
Can you imagine how uncomfortable that would be to be bent over a hat with your voice muffled? It would be hard for the scribe to hear and for Joseph to breath.
Do you remember how Joseph described Moroni’s visit in the log home in 1823? He said the light around Moroni seemed brighter than farther away. Why would God give Joseph an underpowered teleprompter? Why put limits on God?
Why didn’t the Lord give the Brother of Jared a hat along with the 2 seer stones? Don’t be swayed by the foolish revisionist history and their bogus artwork depicting the FALSE seer stone in a hat translation method! Eber D. Howe tried to sell that false notion in Mormonism Unvailed [sic] in 1834. David Whitmer tried to perpetuate the lie it in his 1887 tirade, AN ADDRESS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST. David was a faithful witness for the Book of Mormon. However, he opposed Joseph on the Restoration of the Priesthood, Doctrine and Covenants, etc. and he started his own church. He is definitely not a creditable source for the translation method.
D&C 17:1 says the 3 Witness would be able to view the plates, breastplate, Urim and Thummim, Sword of Laban and the Liahona. No seer stone is mentioned.
Also remember that Hiram Page tried to lead the church astray with a seer stone in 1830 (D&C 28). Satan loves a counterfeit!
How many revelations were given in the Doctrine and Covenants via a seer stone? Zero. How many revelations were given via the Urim and Thummim? At least 8 sections (Sections 3, 6, 7, 11, 14, 15, 16, and 17).Why would God preserve the Urim and Thummim and records for about 4,000 years if a seer stone was used? Mormon and Moroni spent many years abridging all the records. That would be a huge waste if the plates were not even used as many scholars now claim. The seer stone in a hat doesn’t pass the common sense test! Follow the prophets, not the intellectuals and scholars.” Source: About Central America Jonathan Neville | 6/5/20 URL: https://wp.me/p741A5-Tm
I share a few comments about two books, “From Darkness Unto Light by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat and “Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones” by Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick. My comments will be in RED and the Historian Richard Bushman’s comments will remain in BLACK
Foreword by Richard Bushman about “From Darkness Unto Light” by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat
My comments in Red and Richard Bushman’s in Black
“This volume is the first of what could be many potential histories coming out of the Joseph Smith Papers Project. Michael Hubbard MacKay and Gerrit Dirkmaat have been editors of the Documents series, which is just beginning to appear. The results of this research can be partially found in the introductions, headnotes, and footnotes of The Joseph Smith Papers volumes, but the findings will be properly valued only when integrated into the narrative of early Church history. [I personally don’t think the idea of a stone in a hat adds value into Church history. It only moves the Church backwards in an old sectarian notion that began in the book “Mormonism Unvailed” in 1834, that said the stone in the hat was ever used for translation.] Only then will readers grasp what the new discoveries mean. [The old discoveries, not new discoveries, are the same old dogma that my mother used to tell me about saying, that Joseph never used an occultic seer stone to translate]. The two authors have done just that for Joseph Smith’s early years from the recovery of the plates in September 1827 through the publication of the Book of Mormon in March 1830.
Books like this one will bring Latter-day Saint readers up to date on the results of the latest historical research. [These historians say the latest historical research are quotes from Martin Harris, David Whitmer, William McClelland, and Emma Smith, that say very late in the Church history, that a stone in a hat was used. I believe the first hand witnesses, Joseph Smith and Oliver, and the 8 passages of scripture that say the “Interpreters” (spectacles and breastplate attached) were the only instruments used]. While, like all histories, From Darkness unto Light is necessarily an interpretation, the authors base their story firmly on the original sources. [Yes, original sources from Martin and David and Emma who all never saw the spectacles and breastplate]. They get down to what historians consider to be the bedrock of historical construction. [Wow!] Working from original materials, the authors introduce readers to aspects of early Church history that are well known to historians but that are not necessarily common knowledge in the Church. [That’s precisely the point. Historians dig up things from the past and revisit them to bring up new ideas for which they can become peer reviewed and develop a pet theory that makes them look smart]. MacKay and Dirkmaat also reveal brand new findings in this work. They speak at length, for example, about Joseph Smith’s use of two seer stones in translation. In translating, Joseph probably first used the stones set in spectacles that came with the plates, and then, for most of the translation period, substituted one of the stones he had found. [Bushman says probably first used the spectacles and then substituted one of the stones he found. Based on what? I say the spectacles and breatplate together were used for the entire translation]. Joseph put the seer stone in a hat to exclude the light [Why did the Lord not make powerful enough seer stone light for Joseph?], and read off the translated text by looking in the stone. All the while, the plates lay wrapped in a cloth on the table. Apparently Joseph did not look at the plates through most of the translation. [Then explain to me why Nephi, Mormon and others were so diligent it writing on and securing the plates, if Joseph would later just ignore them totally? Silly]!
This description will startle Latter-day Saints who are familiar with artistic depictions showing Joseph Smith translating with a finger on the plates while he writes down the words as they come to him. [Picture left: I am familiar with pictures of Joseph’s finger on the plates following the words, but that is also incorrect. I ask a question here, where was the breastplate this entire time, and why would the Lord put a breastplate with the spectacles in the stone box with the plates, if they were never intended to be used later? I’ll show you how the breastplate was used in my article at the bottom, titled, Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation]. The image of Joseph with his face in the hat as he translates is not so well known and is much less decorous, [decorous meaning: Suitable to a character, or to the time, place, and occasion; marked with decorum; becoming; proper; seemly; befitting], which may shock some readers. [Yes the picture on the right shocks me, doesn’t it you?] But it is essential that the Church at large become aware of what historians have discovered in the sources. Failure to acknowledge these factual accounts, almost all of them in friendly sources, can devastate Latter-day Saints who run across them. Feeling that the Church has covered up the truth, they become disillusioned and even angry. This book is an attempt to repair the misconceptions so that the next generation of Latter-day Saints will be better informed. [As a non-historian and slightly educated man, I don’t believe the Church has ever covered up truth. I believe many revisionist historians in the Church have covered the truth to spread their theory of importance so their buddies will think the are smart as they are peer reviewed. Sad! I am not disillusioned as believe I have come up with the Lord’s help a possible scenario that explains your Historic covering up, titled, Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation]
For years Mormon scholars simply disregarded critical sources, such as the affidavits concerning the Smith family in E. D. Howe’s Mormonism Unvailed. [So E.D. Howe an anti-Mormon’s affidavits are now credible]? They felt the critical writings were too biased to be of any use. But in recent years, automatic exclusion of negative reports is no longer the practice. Everything has to be examined and evaluated. MacKay and Dirkmaat work on the principle that bias must be taken into account in analyzing any historical source. The art of the historian is to extract useful information from original sources whether negative or positive. [Who determines if it is negative or positive sources? Oh, the Historians, I see!] The notes of From Darkness unto Light show the authors ranging through sources all across the spectrum. The result is a much enriched and compelling narrative, [I call it non-compelling and made up history trying to tear down traditional sources of Joseph and Oliver] one that will hold up under critical scrutiny.” Richard Bushman Forward to From Darkness Unto Light by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat
Introduction From Darkness Unto Light by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat
Again my comments in RED and McKay & Dirkmaat in black
The actual process by which the Book of Mormon was translated, according to the witnesses of the event and the earliest sources, is generally unknown to members of the Church. [No it isn’t. Read JSH 1:34-35, 42, 62, and 75, Mosiah 28:13, 20 (History of the Church, 4:537). Ether 3:22-23, 4:5, Lucy Mack Smith and more]. Because Joseph Smith only explained [?Only?] that “through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God,” little emphasis has been placed upon the actual process of translation. Although the well-known “History of Joseph Smith” recounts Joseph Smith’s explanation of the device found with the plates as being composed of two stones, [Yes that is what Lucy Mack Smith says] most artists’ renderings depicting these events generally excluded images of the stones entirely, and no attempts were made to show the stones being used in the way witnesses described. [Why did they do this since the spectacles were found in the stone box and not a single peep stone]. These artists’ paintings powerfully conveyed an image to modern Latter-day Saints of Joseph Smith sitting at a table with the plates in front of him, his finger running over the top of the characters, with Oliver Cowdery dutifully seated across from him taking the dictation down. Thus generations of Mormons have come to imagine the translation process in much the same way reflected in these portrayals, a process by which the miracle of translation occurred by Joseph Smith looking at the plates and speaking a translation to Cowdery without the use of any external tools or the seer stones themselves, despite the testimonies of witnesses that the process occurred very differently. Those witnesses make the use of the stones the central aspect of the translation. They give an account of Joseph Smith placing various seer stones into a hat in order to block out the external light. Then God caused words to appear on the shining stones that translated the reformed Egyptian text into English. [Witnesses you speak of are David, Martin and Emma who never saw the spectacles nor the breastplate, but they all saw Joseph’s brown stone as he had it with him a lot. Don’t you think these so called witnesses just assumed that Joseph used that rock they so often saw him with? I do].
Those who are antagonistic toward the Church and Joseph Smith have used this discrepancy between witnesses of the translation and average members of the Church as a cudgel to beat upon the faith of believers. The very use of these witness statements by antagonistic or disrespectful authors or television programs to create a deprecating image of Joseph Smith has further alienated members from a proper understanding of the translation process. These detractors highlight the apparent ridiculousness of a scene that involves Joseph translating with his head buried in a “magic” hat, knowing that such imagery would offend the sensibilities of twenty-first-century Mormons. [Then why do you use that magic hat imagery if it is silly, and hard to believe? Why not believe what Oliver said, “Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’ Also the Interpreters are: “the spectacles and the breastplate attached” as Joseph said, “With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called ‘Urim and Thummim,’ which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God.” Times and Seasons, 1 March 1842,” p. 707, The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed February 13, 2021, https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/times-and-seasons-1-march-1842/5
Although the witnesses’ explanations of the translation process differ from what is generally understood by Church members, the testimonies of these witnesses affirm that the use of the seer stones—placed as they were in a hat to block out the light so the words of God could be read—was the greatest evidence to them of the miraculous nature of the translation. Detractors make light of the translation process. However, they do so without informing their readers that their very sources for such apparently disdainful evidence stated that because of the use of a seer stone in the translation process, they had a greater testimony of the seership of Joseph Smith. [Detractors make light of the translation, because of the use of a single seer stone. Readers think the Church is crazy because they know the spectacles and breastplate were in the stone box and so why not use them? You cannot find anywhere in the Scriptures where it says Joseph used a “seer stone”, “seers stone”, “stone”, or “peep stone”, NOT ONE!]
One way we attempt to deal with the problem of the inaccurate portrayal of the translation process is by adding depictions of the translation to this book. These images [the ones below marked with the name Anthony Sweat] were created by Anthony Sweat, assistant professor of Church history and doctrine at Brigham Young University. In addition to skillfully crafted artwork of the events surrounding the translation that more closely align with the testimonies of scribes and witnesses, Sweat has performed detailed and informative research on how images of the translation have been used over time. The appendix of this book contains his exclusive essay, “By the Gift and Power of Art,” which will help readers understand where the more well-known images of the translation originated and how their less accurate depictions have come to dominate the LDS imagination when considering the translation of the gold plates. [There are currently only two pictures (shown above right and left) in all the work of art found in the Church that even comes close to the proper translation and in both pictures they show a breastplate. Why did Anthony Sweat leave out pictures of the breastplate being used?]
Our book attempts to capture the first-person [You mean the first-person Joseph Smith or Oliver Cowdery, or the first person you think is accurate?] point of view of Joseph Smith and those who witnessed the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon. Though we have taken into account the perspectives of detractors and nonbelievers in our analysis, [But have you taken the perspective of Rod Meldrum, Hannah Stoddard, and Rian Nelson, who are not detractors?] the purpose of our book is to understand the coming forth of the Book of Mormon as a miracle, which can best be understood through the accounts of those closest to the process and by those who believed. To Joseph Smith and his friends and family, the miraculous translation process was a reality. In other words, our approach asks the question “How would Joseph and his family explain to others the translation process?” [Joseph would explain the translation process by saying how he used the spectacles and breastplate that cam in the stone box and how he was also able to keep them hidden as he promised. See my article below titled, Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation]
Each of the chapters presented in our book offers new material, [What is new? The old idea of Joseph using a peep stone in a hat? That is revisionist, not new material]. both in sources and in interpretation. In a mostly narrative format, we examine the primary events in the coming forth of the Book of Mormon from September 1827 to September 1830—only occasionally pausing to note significant changes in the story. This book is intended to bring the reader closer to the most important events in this chronology of events through the eyes of those who experienced them. [So you quote the scripture by Oliver and Joseph, or do you use the second hand information from Emma, David and Martin?] Its scope does not include larger topics such as the influence of broader religious cultures, nor does it generally attempt to place the coming forth of the Book of Mormon within the context of national trends, politics, or Protestantism, except in those times when it is clear that those broader influences were cognizant to Joseph Smith and his colleagues. This does not mean that we do not contextualize and historicize each account to understand it better, but we do attempt to let those closest to Joseph Smith be heard in their own words, while acknowledging that they had their own biases reflected in their accounts and interpretations. [Yes Emma’s testimony was given very near her death and she did not have time to edit the comments that were used. David Whitmer’s comments were all after he had left the church and called Joseph a fallen Prophet. Not great references. What about when Oliver said, “I wrote with my own pen the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet as he translated it by the gift and power of God by means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by that book, holy interpreters. I beheld with my eyes and handled with my hands the gold plates from which it was translated. I also beheld the Interpreters. That book is true. … I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet.” When Cowdery returned to Church membership in 1848 he spoke to an Iowa conference. His words above were recorded by Reuben Miller]
In many ways, our book is an attempt to recapture the religious value of the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon in the minds of believing members. We are not making claims or an argument about the reality of the plates, nor are we making arguments about the historicity of the plates, which can be found in other publications. Instead, this book tries to get at the heart of what Joseph Smith and those closest to him believed about the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon. [We are very happy to know you are not trying to say the plates never existed, only that Joseph never looked at them to translate. What exactly is the difference]?
Nevertheless, no work of history nor any examination of sources that speak of heavenly manifestations and the visitations of angels can demonstrate the reality of these miraculous events. Miracles are by definition events that cannot be replicated by mortal beings absent of the intervention of God. [I agree we all know the Book of Mormon is true by the Spirit and not by the translation method]. In this sense, logic and historical method cannot fully prove or disprove the miraculous claims made by Joseph Smith or the scribes who worked with him on the translation. Just as one cannot prove with historical sources or scientific inquiry alone the reality of Jesus Christ’s Resurrection or of the efficacy of his Atonement to save men and women from sin and death, faith and belief are the necessary ingredients for one to come to know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that he performed the work of a seer in bringing forth the words of the Book of Mormon from darkness unto light. [We do however have the word on an Apostle, Jeffrey R. Holland who said, “Truly rock-ribbed faith and uncompromised conviction comes with its most complete power when it engages our head as well as our heart… Two manifestations, two witnesses if you will—the force of fact as well as the force of feeling.” Jeffery R. Holland 2017. This shows me that Moroni’s promise that, I “may know the truth of all things”, is true. My head and heart, my spiritual witness and the physical witness of things both work together, just as the attached spectacles with the breastplate represent Joseph’s head and heart together to have the amazing ability to translate “by the gift and power of God”] What historians can demonstrate, however, is how the witnesses to these events explained them, how they understood them, and how they came to believe, as Wilford Woodruff did, that Joseph Smith had been called by God to translate gold plates and publish that translation as the Book of Mormon.” From Darkness Unto Light by Michael Hubbard McKay, Gerrit J. Dirkmaat (Items in red above are from Rian Nelson)
Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones / Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick.
Below are some note worthy quotes from Hubbard and Frederick. If you didn’t already know, most of these historians lean towards a a Mesoamerican theory of geography. The four paragraphs below however, let you see some of their thoughts about the Native Americans in North America and how influential these North American Indians were to the restoration and to Joseph Smith.
“Coupled with Christian interests, scholars like Samuel L. Mitchill of Columbia College examined Indian ruins in New York, claiming that Native American races had once met there in battle, resulting in the extermination of one race by another. Mitchill was well known enough to have reached public conscientiousness in Palmyra, having been mentioned in the Palmyra Freeman, and Martin Harris eventually visited him in February of 1828 to see if he could translate some of the characters on the gold plates.” Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones / Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick. BYU Religious Studies Center, 2016.
Despite Joseph’s own later reticence to ascribe supernatural forces to his treasure seeking, he did maintain a connection with the sacred nature of the land. The very land where Joseph found his seer stones held divine providence in the minds of Americans, and Joseph’s claim that the stones came from Native Americans harmonized with a greater public perception of an underlying sacred Native American mythos surrounding the lands in which they now lived.
Joseph bound together the ideas of sacred land, ancient Native American artifacts, and digging for money with seer stones. He believed that he plucked his seer stones from a blessed landscape where they had been buried by ancient inhabitants and under the direction of God. The idea of America as a sacred place was not foreign to Americans, who believed “manifest destiny” was exhibited through the ancient inhabitants, who were considered by many to be Israelites. To Joseph, these ideas were inseparable.
Even as the idea of peoples from ancient Israel currently living in America was challenged, ancient artifacts were being regularly uncovered, and scholars at the American Philosophical Society eagerly compared Native American writing to European, Egyptian, and even Hebrew.” Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones/ Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick. BYU Religious Studies Center, 2016.
SEER STONES: ANCIENT ROOTS AND RELIGIOUS SIGNIFICANCE
MacKay and Frederick in BLACK, my words in RED
This connection between Native Americans and Joseph Smith’s religious endeavors extended to his brown and white seer stones. William Stafford claimed that someone might find a stone in brass kettles or certain kinds of pots buried in the mounds, insisting that seer stones were being recovered that had a Native American origin. These artifacts were very clearly man-made items, and if a seer stone was found within a kettle, then it must have had some value or purpose as evidenced by the belief that the hands of those who made the kettle must have placed the stone inside. Brigham Young likely had these Native American kettles in mind when he stated that “[Joseph] got [the seer stone] in an Iron kettle 15 feet under ground. “Apparently, the idea of Joseph Smith’s seer stones being anciently deposited by Native Americans became a natural assumption for some and suggested a similar origin for the Nephite interpreters. According to Joseph’s narrative, the Nephite interpreters originated with the ancient American inhabitants, [Brother of Jared See Ether chapters 3 and 4 below] as the ancient prophet Moroni supposedly placed them in the ground for Joseph to find. At least one of the other two seer stones also shows signs of being prepared anciently.
[It should have been obvious to these authors to add to this dialogue the FACT that Ether 3:24 speaks about this very thing. Why did the authors say, “as the ancient prophet Moroni supposedly placed them in the ground for Joseph to find. At least one of the other two seer stones also shows signs of being prepared anciently?” MacKay & Frederick]
[These authors MacKay and Frederick should have said for sure the place these two stones originated, if they would have accurately quoted Ether 3:23 below in orange. Then they would not have to say supposedly.]
“And behold, when ye shall come unto me, ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read.
And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write.
For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.
And when the Lord had said these words, he showed unto the brother of Jared all the inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be; and he withheld them not from his sight, even unto the ends of the earth.” Ether 3:22-25
“Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.” Ether 4:5
Tying these strings together, Joseph Smith was highly influenced by the Second Great Awakening, marked by revivals and itinerant preachers, but he was also naturally affected by the Christian conceptualization of America. The patriotic sense of success was bound with the divine providence of the United States, an idea given weight by the belief that Native Americans were heirs of the biblical Israelites. Pulling ancient artifacts from the soil seemed only to support his religious longings and sense of calling, even if they were driven by local searches for buried treasure. Before the Book of Mormon provided the narrative, Joseph Smith’s brown and white stones were artifacts of an ancient past and an expression of his religious devotion in the nineteenth century. Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones/ Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas J. Frederick. BYU Religious Studies Center, 2016. [Probably true, but these brown and white stones had nothing to do with the translation.]
Witnesses Movie by The Interpreter uses Martin’s supposed story
Some of the earliest witnesses remembered his seer stones as Native American artifacts. Martin Harris, an associate of the Smiths prior to Joseph’s recovery of the gold plates in 1827, apparently experienced Joseph using a single seer stone to help him find a toothpick he had lost. [This story was used in the Witnesses movie just released by Daniel Peterson and The Interpreter Foundation. We are not sure if this second have information is correct]. He remembered, “Joseph had had this stone for some time [before 1827]. There was a company there in that neighborhood, who were digging for money supposed to have been hidden by the ancients.” Having known about his earlier seer stone retrieval, he was initially skeptical of Joseph when he first heard about his retrieval of the gold plates. Harris immediately thought “the money-diggers had probably dug up an old brass kettle, or something of the kind.” William Stafford also claimed that Smith searched for brass kettles filled with treasure, and Harris may have been referencing Smith’s retrieval of a kettle that could have had Joseph Smith’s seer stone inside. Even the retrieval of the gold plates suggested that items were being prepared for the restoration of the gospel by Native Americans. See MacKay and Dirkmaat, From Darkness unto Light, chs. 2–3; “Mormonism—No. II,” Tiffany’s Monthly 5 (August 1859): 167.
“Seer Stone v Urim & Thummim Book of Mormon Translation on Trial” Magic & Treasure Digging by James and Hannah Stoddard
“Richard L. Bushman, progressive historian and author of Rough Stone Rolling, would later echo this argument, adding that Joseph was “involved in magic,” had “treasure-seeking greed,” and that magic was a “preparatory gospel” in training the young man as a prophet of God. However, Bushman argued that “all sorts of treasure seekers were also serious Christians,” so to him, it just wasn’t a big deal:
This is a MUST READ!
It was no more scandalous than say gambling, playing poker today. A little bit discredited and slightly morally disreputable but not really evil. And when it was found that all sorts of treasure seekers were also serious Christians, why not the Smiths too? So, instead of being a puzzle or a contradiction, it was just one aspect of Smith family culture and not really anything to be worried about.
Contrary to Bushman’s claims, when Mormonism Unvailed was published in 1834, accusing the Smith family of involvement in magic, treasure digging, etc. the public was incensed! The First Presidency reported that Hurlbut’s claims “fired the minds of the people with much indignation” against Joseph Smith and the Church. No good Christian in Joseph Smith’s day heard Hurlbut and thought, “Those Smiths are kind of weird but no big deal.”
The accusations of magic and treasure digging Hurlbut & Howe conjured up carried grave implications for early 19th century Americans, and they published them with the specific intent of destroying Joseph Smith’s character. Just as his enemies had hoped, the publication resulted in increased and intense persecution. When “serious Christians” in Joseph Smith’s day—and this is true as well for serious Christians in our day—heard that Joseph Smith was “expert in the arts of necromancy” and that he had spent his boyhood “digging into the hills and mountains” searching for gold, the slanders destroyed his credibility and impeded interest in the ongoing work of the Restoration of the Gospel. Viewed as “blots” on the character of the young Prophet, most of the persecution leveled against the Church in 1834 was rooted firmly in these scandalous tales.”
Read my full blog about seer stones, who had them and where they found them on my website here: https://www.worksofjoseph.com/seer-stones/
Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation
[A short version of “Mother I have got the Key” a 26-page PDF in 2-pages], by Rian Nelson
The Prophet Joseph Smith stated, “On the west side of this hill not far from the top, under a stone of considerable size, lay the plates, deposited in a stone box.” “Having removed the earth, I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate…” Joseph Smith-History 1:51-52
1- The Key
On the night of Sept 22, 1837, after Joseph returned from the Hill Cumorah (End of 4th year of Moroni’s instructions), Lucy Mack Smith said, “I trembled so much with fear lest all might be lost again by some small failure in keeping the commandments, that I was under the necessity of leaving the room to conceal my feelings. Joseph saw this and followed me. “Mother,” said he. “Do not be uneasy. All is right. See here,” said he, “I have got the key.”
I knew not what he meant, but took the article in my hands and, examining it with no covering but a silk handkerchief, found that it consisted of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows connected with each other in much the same way that old-fashioned spectacles are made. (See picture upper right). He took them again and left me but did not tell me anything of the record….
as Lucy describes the spectacles
That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed nothing more nor less than a Urim and Thummim by which the angel manifested those things to him that were shown him in vision; by which also he could at any time ascertain the approach of danger, either to himself or the record, and for this cause he kept these things constantly about his person.” History of Joseph Smith, by Lucy Mack Smith
Joseph loved this “Key”, as through it he could see all things as prophets of old have as well. “After breakfast [on the day he received the plates and the Urim and Thummim] Joseph [Smith] called me into the other room and he set his foot on the bed and leaned his head on his hand and says… “it is ten times better than I expected.” Then he went on to tell the length and width and thickness of the plates, and said he, “they appear to be gold.” But he seemed to think more of the glasses or the Urim and Thummim than he did of the plates, for, says he, “I can see anything; they are marvelous.” Joseph Knight’s Recollection of Early Mormon History, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 1; spelling modernized
2- Breastplate
“After bringing home the plates, Joseph now commenced work with his father on the farm in order to be as near as possible the treasure that was committed to his care.
Soon after this, he came in from work one afternoon, and after remaining a short time, he put on his greatcoat and left the house. I was engaged at the time in an upper room in preparing some oilcloths for painting. When he returned, he requested me to come downstairs. I told him that I could not leave my work just then, yet upon his urgent request, I finally concluded to go down and see what he wanted, upon which he handed me the breastplate spoken of in his history. It was wrapped in a thin muslin handkerchief, so thin that I could see the glistening metal and ascertain its proportions without any difficulty.“
William Smith’s Description
With these quotes below, I am assuming William Smith saw the Urim and Thummim and maybe even the translation process. He gives an amazing description of the entire process. Of course we don’t know about the authenticity, but I am intrigued by William being quoted as saying, “[Joseph] always used it in connection with the breastplate when receiving official communications, and usually so when translating as it permitted him to have both hands free to hold the plates.”
William Smith’s description: “A silver bow ran over one stone, under the other, around [sic] over that one and under the first in the shape of a horizontal figure 8…[T]hey were much too large for Joseph and he could only see through one at a time using sometimes one and sometimes the other.” These stones, he continued, “were attached to the breastplate by a rod which was fastened at the outer shoulde[r] edge of the breastplate and to the edge of the silver bow.” (Tyrell Givens, By the Hand of Mormon, p.22)
Another account from William Smith: “Among other things we inquired minutely about the Urim and Thummim and the breastplate. We asked him what was meant by the expression “two rims of a bow,” which held the former. He said a double silver bow was twisted into the shape of the figure eight, and the two stones were placed literally between the two rims of a bow. At one end was attached a rod which was connected with the outer edge of the right shoulder of the breast-plate. By pressing the head a little forward, the rod held the Urim and Thummim before the eyes much like a pair of spectacles. A pocket was prepared in the breastplate on the left side, immediately over the heart. When not in use the Urim and Thummim was placed in this pocket, the rod being of just the right length to allow it to be so deposited. This instrument could, however, be detached from the breastplate and his brother said Joseph often wore it detached when away from home, but always used it in connection with the breastplate when receiving official communications, and usually so when translating as it permitted him to have both hands free to hold the plates.” (J. W. Peterson in The Rod of Iron I:3 (February 1924)
Article titled “Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation” continues, “It was concave on one side and convex on the other and extended from the neck downwards as far as the center of the stomach of a man of extraordinary size. It had four straps of the same material for the purpose of fastening it to the breast, two of which ran back to go over the shoulders, and the other two were designed to fasten to the hips. They were just the width of two of my fingers (for I measured them), and they had holes in the end of them to be convenient in fastening. The whole plate was worth at least five hundred dollars. After I had examined it, Joseph placed it in the chest with the Urim and Thummim (Picture left).” History of Joseph Smith, by Lucy Mack Smith
3- Gold Plates
“I have myself seen and handled the golden plates; they are about eight inches long, and six wide; some of them are sealed together and are not to be opened, and some of them are loose. They are all connected by a ring which passes through a hole at the end of each plate and are covered with letters beautifully engraved. I have seen and felt also the Urim and Thummim. They resemble two large bright diamonds set in a bow like a pair of spectacles. My son puts these over his eyes when he reads unknown languages, and they enable him to interpret them in English. I have likewise carried in my hands the sacred breastplate. It is composed of pure gold and is made to fit the breast very exactly.” Lucy Mack Smith (in Henry Caswall, The City of the Mormons; or, Three Days at Nauvoo, in 1842, 2nd ed. revised and enlarged, London: J. G. F. & J. Rivington, 1843
Interpreters (Breastplate + Spectacles)
Joseph’s “Key” is certainly not a seer stone. It is the spectacles acting as a key to unlock the breastplate for a connected view of revealing “by the Gift and Power of God.”
“And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write” Ether 3:23. We will call the Key with the Breastplate, “Interpreters” as Moroni first said, “I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord” Ether 4:5.
As you read the Book of Mormon there is only one word that describes what to call the breastplate with the two stones in the rims of a bow.” INTERPRETERS. Nowhere in the entire Book of Mormon will you hear the term Urim and Thummim or seer stone or single stone. It also mentions Interpreters once in the PGP in JSH 1:75* That means whenever we say the word “Interpreters” we mean the breastplate with the spectacles as one unit.
There are thousands of Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that believe the Interpreters are the instrument that Joseph Smith found with the gold plates buried in the hill of Cumorah. These Interpreters began their journey near hill Ramah in upstate New York as the Lord touched these two stones and asked the Brother of Jared to seal these stones up with the interpreters to come forth at a later date to be translated and as we know Joseph Smith was that person.
“Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed.”(Joseph Smith History 1:35,42)
The breastplate would have been worn under Joseph’s shirt and Joseph’s eyes would be looking through the glasses and seeing the gold plates on the table. The Large farmers hat would be placed as a shield or prop between Joseph and Emma with the hat blocking the eyes of Emma so she could not see the plates or the glasses. Joseph would hold the hat brim with one hand and have his other hand on top of the plates with his finger pointing at the text on the plates or to use his hand in turning the pages.
The spectacles or “key” would have been attached to the breastplate on the right side of Joseph with a downward slant so when Joseph bends over the spectacles, they would be directly over the gold plates. On the back of the breastplate is a pocket to store the glasses on Josephs left and over his heart. So, whenever we say the word “Interpreters” we mean the breastplate with the spectacles as one unit.
Prepared from the Beginning
“And now he translated them by the means of those two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow. Now these things were prepared from the beginning, and were handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages; And they have been kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord, that he should discover to every creature who should possess the land the iniquities and abominations of his people; And whosoever has these things is called seer, after the manner of old times.” Mosiah 28: 13-16
Conclusion
If an individual seer stone was used it would contradict all the scriptures, which we find that are the “true word of the Lord”, and that is what I rely upon when understanding the proper method of translation. This is the scripture that sums up the “Proper Translation” in my opinion. “He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants; Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” JSH 1:34-35.” Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation by Rian Nelson
As the quote from JSH 1:34-35 says, “and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim.” No stone in a hat is mentioned, and how could a single seer stone be called a Urim & Thummim? After reading this scripture it says the two stones in silver bows were fastened to a breastplate and called Urim & Thummim. I believe Joseph’s scriptural words.
1- Read a PDF of the 2-page article “Joseph’s Three Sacred Artifacts for Translation” here
2- Read over 16 scriptures and historical quotes here:
3- Read my 26-Page Free PDF here.
4- Purchase entire 128-page Heartland Handbook by Rod Meldrum & Rian Nelson Here $15
Two different paintings by Anne Marie Oborn
Read my full blog about seer stones, who had them and where they found them on my website here: https://www.worksofjoseph.com/seer-stones/
1-Gold Plates
2- Spectacles
3- Breastplate
