What Year did we First Know the Name Cumorah? This seems like an easy answer with all the history we have especially in the Joseph Smith Papers. Unfortunately the Meso guys just don’t want to consider this information. I received an email from our friend Stephen Reed who has an amazing website here: and I have several of his blogs on my site here: The Origin of the Two Cumorah Mesoamerica Geography Theory for The Book of Mormon
Jonathan Neville was inspired today as well to also utilize Stephen’s information. On Jonathan’s blog today the question about, What Year did we First Know the Name Cumorah?, struck me once again. Why do Mesoamericanists not believe the quotes that we provide for them? Are they in a “Bubble of No Return?”
Abstract
I will share briefly some of Jonathan’s blog today. I will also let you hear directly from Book of Mormon Central and how they answer my question. Then I will let you begin to dive into just 3 of 21 parts of our Geography Packet of information, which shows important quotes from leaders and others who will definitely answer two questions.
1- How many Cumorah’s are there?, and
2- What Year did we First Know the Name Cumorah?
I can’t help you with the third question of, Are they in a “Bubble of No Return?”
Revisionist Fake History on the Church’s Website
“This latest gem was recently brought to my attention.
Our historians are at it again, changing Church history to accommodate M2C.
[This is a quote from today’s Church Website]. ‘In the 1820s, the hill did not have a name. It later became known as the Hill Cumorah because Moroni, the Book of Mormon’s final author and the angel who met with Joseph Smith, wrote that he had hidden the golden plates in a hill called Cumorah (see Mormon 6:6).’ https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/historic-sites/new-york/hill-cumorah?lang=eng
Jonathan continues, “To make the declarative statement that “the hill did not have a name,” the historians have to ignore the accounts we have, or assume they are false and thus unworthy of consideration. They also have to assume that the absence of contemporaneous records from the 1820s means that anything we don’t have a contemporaneous record of didn’t happen.
By this logic, the First Vision didn’t happen, because that was also not reported until after the 1820s.
Notice that the historians don’t bother to state their assumptions. They certainly don’t link to the actual historical accounts.
Because the Saints books have created a false historical narrative by censoring Cumorah from the record to accommodate M2C, most Church members will never know the actual Church history.
This latest website compounds that error by inventing a fake explanation for the name Cumorah. The historians claim the hill was later named Cumorah because of Mormon 6:6, which is a flat contradiction to the historical record. But because this is what our M2C scholars want people to believe, their peers in the Church History Department have accommodated them.” Jonathan Neville blog. Read his complete blog here:
Now we will read about the claims of the Mesoamerican and the Heartland theories about when the name Cumorah was actually used.
Book of Mormon Central CLAIM 1833
“The name Cumorah came into “common circulation [amongst Latter-day Saints] no earlier than the mid-1830s. The first documented person to identify the drumlin hill in Manchester, New York where Joseph Smith received the plates with the hill Cumorah appears to have been William W. Phelps in 1833.” William W. Phelps, “The Book of Mormon,” The Evening and the Morning Star 1, no. 8 (January 1833): 57.
Phelps’s identification was later followed by Oliver Cowdery in 1835.5 Probably due to the popularity and influence of these two early leaders’ writings, the identification of the hill in New York as the same hill Cumorah mentioned by Mormon in Book of Mormon became commonplace amongst early Latter-day Saints.6
As far as can be determined, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself only associated the hill in New York with the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon towards the end of his life. In an 1842 epistle the Prophet spoke of hearing “Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed” (Doctrine and Covenants 128:20).7 Before then, Joseph left the name of the New York hill where Moroni gave him the plates unnamed in his accounts of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.8 Whether the Prophet arrived at this conclusion about the location of Cumorah by revelation, by conforming to usage that had become common among the early members of the Church about Book of Mormon geography, or in some other way is historically unknown.9
In the decades after Joseph Smith’s death, other prominent early Latter-day Saints, including Lucy Mack Smith,10 Parley P. Pratt,11 and David Whitmer,12 recounted earlier incidents in which the New York hill was identified as Cumorah by the angel Moroni and by Joseph Smith. Since these statements are somewhat late recollections, coming after the identity of Cumorah as a hill near Palmyra, New York, had become widespread, they should be used cautiously.13 https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/where-is-the-location-of-the-hill-cumorah#footnote10_aoi58wq Post contributed by BMC Team November 29, 2018 KnoWhy #489
The Heartland has five quotes before the time that Book of Mormon Central’s first claim is made. Before we share three of those, here is a little bit about the Geography Packet.
BYU-CES Packet for Book of Mormon Classes by Jonathan Neville
Full Article Here: http://www.lettervii.com/p/byu-packet-on-cumorah.html
When the issues of evolution and the origin of man generated controversy at BYU, the administration developed an “Evolution packet” in 1992, titled “Evolution and the Origin of Man.” See http://ndbf.net/010.pdf
The explanation included this statement: “the selection of material for such a packet could not depend on the content of the statements. The goal is not to achieve some kind of “balance” among the views that have been expressed, but to give students the full range of official views so that they can judge the different positions they encounter. The full range of official views should provide the basis for the evaluation of other views that have been expressed but that do not have the status of official Church positions.
Now that the issue of Book of Mormon geography has generated similar controversy, this packet of statements by Church leaders is intended to achieve a similar purpose.
Guidance accompanying the “Evolution packet” is equally relevant to the “Geography Packet.”
“None of us involved in preparing this packet for Board review anticipate that professors will be limited from distributing other materials to their students. It is only requested that BYU faculty members refer students to the materials in this specific packet along with the other items they may choose to distribute. When other items are distributed, they should be clearly separated and given as a supplement to this material and include a fair sampling of the diverse viewpoints among LDS leaders. For example, if one included statements by LDS apostles in a handout on evolution, the range of views would include some statements against evolution, some sympathetic to evolution and several shades of opinion in between. We want to avoid the implication that a greater sense of unanimity or resolution of this topic exists than is actually the case, and we are eager to avoid contention. The university has also suggested that faculty members limit supplemental LDS material on the subject of evolution and the origin of man to published documents, avoiding private letters or other private material.
This packet contains, as far as could be found, all statements issued by members of the First Presidency and official publications of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the subject of the hill Cumorah and the geography of the Book of Mormon.
These statements evince a sharp distinction between two separate but related teachings by Church leaders that have often been commingled or conflated; i.e.,
- The Hill Cumorah of Mormon 6:6 is in western New York, near Palmyra.
- We don’t know where the other events of the Book of Mormon took place, but there are many possibilities.” Jonathan Neville
Heartland Geography CLAIM 1823
1. In 1823 Lucy Mack Smith’s Journal
According to Lucy, when Moroni first appeared to Joseph Smith in 1823, he identified the hill as Cumorah:
“[Moroni, after telling Joseph about the record, said] but you cannot get it until you learn to keep the commandments of God For it is not to get gain. But it is to bring forth that light and intelligence which has been long lost in the Earth.
Now Joseph beware or when you go to get the plates your mind will be filled with darkness and all manner of evil will rush into your mind. To prevent you from keeping the commandments of God that you may not succeed in doing his work and you must tell your father of this for he will believe every word you say.
The record is on a side hill on the Hill of Cumorah 3 miles from this place. Remove the grass and moss and you will find a large flat stone pry that up and you will find the record under it laying on 4 pillars of cement— then the angel left him.” https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/41
2. Early 1827– Joseph Smith (Quoted by his mother Lucy Mack Smith)
[In January 1827, Joseph] returned with his wife, in good health and fine spirits. Not long after this his father had occasion to send him to Manchester on business. <And,> as he started quite early in the morning, we expected him home, at the outside, by 6. o clock in the evening. But when 6. came he did not arrive.— we always had a peculiar anxiety about him whenever he was absent from us; for, it seemed as if something was always taking place to jeopardize his life. But to return, he did not get home till the night was far spent. On coming in, threw himself into a chair, apparently much exhausted. My husband did not observe his appearance, and immediately exclaimed, “Joseph, why have you staid so late? has anything happened you? we have been much distressed about you these three hours. As Joseph made no reply, he continued his interrogations until I finally said: now, father, (as that was the manner in which I commonly addressed him) let him rest a moment— dont touble him now— you see he is home safe, and he is very tired; so pray wait a little.
The fact is, I had learned to be a little cautious about matters with regard to Joseph; for I was accustomed to see him look as he did on that occasion, and could not easily mistake the cause thereof. Presently he smiled, and said in a very calm tone, “I have taken the severest chastisement, that I have ever had in my life”. My husband, supposing it was from some of the neighbors, was quite angry; and observed, “I would would like to know what business any body has to find fault with you.”
“Stop, father, Stop.” said Joseph, “it was the angel of the Lord— as I passed by the hill of Cumorah, where the plates are, the angel of the Lord met me and said, that I had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord; that the time had come for the record to <be> brought forth; and, that I must be up and doing, and set myself about the things which God had commanded me to do: but, Father,’ continued he, ‘give yourself no uneasiness concerning the reprimand that I have received; for I now know the course that I am to pursue; so all will be well.”
It was also made known to him at this interview, that he should make another effort to obtain the plates on the 22d. of the following September; But this he did not mention to us at that time. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/111
3. In 1829 David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Joseph Smith hear a messenger from their wagon while traveling to Fayette say, “No, I am going to Cumorah.’
David Whitmer remembered the first time he heard about Cumorah, which was in early June 1829 when he picked up Joseph and Oliver from Harmony. Before leaving Harmony, Joseph had given the plates to a divine messenger. On the way back to Fayette, they encountered the messenger along the road.
“When I was returning to Fayette with Joseph and Oliver all of us riding in the wagon, Oliver and I on an old fashioned wooden spring seat and Joseph behind us, while traveling along in a clear open place, a very pleasant, nice-looking old man suddenly appeared by the side of our wagon who saluted us with, “good morning, it is very warm,” at the same time wiping his face or forehead with his hand. We returned the salutation, and by a sign from Joseph I invited him to ride if he was going our way. But he said very pleasantly, “No, I am going to Cumorah.’ This name was something new to me, I did not know what Cumorah meant. We all gazed at him and at each other, and as I looked round enquiringly of Joseph the old man instantly disappeared, so that I did not see him again.” REPORT OF ELDERS ORSON PRATT AND JOSEPH F. SMITH to President John Taylor and Council of the Twelve. http://www.lettervii.com/p/trip-to-fayette-references.html
