True Quotes of Proper Translation- Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery are the only two First Hand Witnesses.
“In the Wentworth Letter, the Prophet wrote: “With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called “Urim and Thummim,” which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breast plate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God” (History of the Church, 4:537).
“In the October 1834 Messenger and Advocate [the Church newspaper in Kirtland, Ohio], Oliver Cowdery wrote: “These were days never to be forgotten to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated, with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon’” (Messenger and Advocate, 1:14; Also known as Letter I Oliver Cowdery to William W. Phelps, 7 September 1834). This quote is CANNONIZED in our Scriptures. See * after JSH 1:75
The testimony borne by Oliver Cowdery upon his return to the Church was as follows: “Friends and Brethren: My name is Cowdery, Oliver Cowdery. In the early history of this Church, I stood identified with her, and one in her councils. True it is that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; not because I was better than the rest of mankind was I called, to fulfill the purposes of God. He called me to a high and holy calling. I wrote with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, ‘holy interpreters.‘ I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the ‘holy interpreters’“ (as cited in Smith, Restoration of All Things, 113).
Joseph Fielding Smith and Grandson Kip Myers
“King Mosiah possessed ‘two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow,’ called by the Nephites Interpreters, with which he translated the Jaredite record [Mosiah 28:11–14], and these were handed down from generation to generation for the purposes of interpreting languages. How Mosiah came into possession of these two stones or Urim and Thummim the record does not tell us, more than to say that it was a ‘gift from God’ [Mosiah 21:28]. Mosiah had this gift or Urim and Thummim before the people of Limhi discovered the record of Ether. They may have been received when the ‘large stone’ was brought to Mosiah with engravings upon it, which he interpreted by the ‘gift and power of God’ [Omni 1:20–21]. They may have been given to him, or to some other prophet before his day, just as the Brother of Jared received them—from the Lord. “That the Urim and Thummim, or two stones, given to the Brother of Jared were those in the possession of Mosiah appears evident from Book of Mormon teachings. The Brother of Jared was commanded to seal up his writings of the vision he had when Christ appeared to him, so that they could not be read by his people. … The Urim and Thummim were also sealed up so that they could not be used for the purpose of interpreting those sacred writings of this vision, until such time as the Lord should grant to man to interpret them. When they were to be revealed, they were to be interpreted by the aid of the same Urim and Thummim [Ether 3:21–28]. …“Joseph Smith received with the breastplate and the plates of the Book of Mormon, the Urim and Thummim, which were hid up by Moroni to come forth in the last days as a means by which the ancient record might be translated, which Urim and Thummim were given to the Brother of Jared [D&C 17:1]” (Doctrines of Salvation, 3:223–25). Source Book of Mormon Student Manual Chapter 50 Ether 1–5 Ether 3:23–24, 28. Two Stones of King Mosiah
What My Grandfather Joseph Fielding Smith told Me about the Seer Stone
“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22–24. These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes.” Wallace Kip Myers, Great Grandson of Joseph Fielding Smith; Email from Kip Myers to his Nephew Kevin Price on May 19, 2021
Two Amazing Books- Refute the Stone in the Hat!
Seer Stone V. Urim and Thummim: Book of Mormon Translation on Trial! by James and Hannah Stoddard
$20.00 Length: 240 pages
Seer Stone v. Urim and Thummim places the Book of Mormon translation on trial, presenting the latest research in one of the most comprehensive treatments of the translation process to date providing encouragement for Latter-day Saints who fear they have been “betrayed” by the translation history taught by the Church for over 190 years.
Did Joseph Smith study and master the Nephite language? Did the Prophet tutor some of the early Brethren in ancient Nephite characters?
Did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon using a dark seer stone in a hat?
Why are progressive historians creating a new history using sources from a man who vowed to wash his hands in the blood of Joseph Smith, while boasting that he had deceived the Prophet and his God?
Has The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints covered up its history for nearly 200 years?
A Man that Can Translate by Jonathan Neville New!
Description
$18.95
Joseph Smith, Jr., and his principle scribe, Oliver Cowdery, claimed that Joseph translated the golden plates with an instrument the Nephites called “interpreters.” Joseph and Oliver called them Urim and Thummim. Some of their contemporaries claimed instead that Joseph merely dictated words that appeared on a seer stone he placed in a hat. The dual narratives were well known in 1834. In response, Joseph and Oliver formally reaffirmed that Joseph used the Urim and Thummim. They reiterated that position for the rest of their lives. In recent years, historians have revived the seer stone narrative. Which version is correct? Urim and Thummim or seer stone? Can they both be correct, or is it an either/or situation? Some historians have reconciled the discrepancies by simply redefining the term “Urim and Thummim” to mean both the Nephite interpreters and the seer stones, but that revisionist approach contradicts the plain historical usage. This book explores the historical evidence and proposes a solution that vindicates the testimonies of Joseph and Oliver while also accepting the statements of the observers as to what they saw. Except what they actually saw was not what they thought they saw.
The Urim and Thummim was the instrument of translation. These facts set the record straight. By Bruce Lloyd
1. Joseph and Oliver were the 2 people most involved in the translation.
2. Joseph says 6 times in his history in the Pearl of Great Price that it was translated with the Urim and Thummim.
3. The Lord gave the brother of Jared a Urim and Thummim about 2200 BC to be used in the future as an instrument of translation.
4. King Mosiah the First used the Urim and Thummim to translate the large stone that Coriantumr engraved during the last 9 months of his life while he lived with the People of Zarahemla.
5. Mosiah’s grandson and son of Benjamin, Mosiah the 2nd used the Urim and Thummim to translate the 24 Jaredite plates found by the people of Limhi.
6. Mormon probably spent 10 to 20 years of his life abridging the 1000-year history of the Nephites, Lamanites, and Mulekites. Why would the Lord preserve the Urim and Thummim and records going back about 4,000 years if the plates and the Urim and Thummim were not used?
7. Since Moroni did not have a copy of the first translation of the 24 Jaredite plates, he did the 2nd translation using the Urim and Thummim. This same Urim and Thummim was placed in the stone and cement box in the hill Cumorah near Palmyra, NY by Moroni and then given to Joseph smith about 1,400 years later.
8. Joseph used the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon.
9. The 1834 Letter I of VIII letters from Oliver Cowdery to W. W. Phelps says Urim and Thummim. These 8 letters were written in 1834-35 to refute the lies in the first anti-Mormon book. This book promoted the seer stone in a hat lie in an attempt to discredit Joseph Smith and the church.
10. The 1842 Wentworth Letter says Urim and Thummim.
11. At a conference held in Kanesville, Iowa on the 24th of October, 1848, Oliver Cowdery said it was translated with the Urim and Thummim.
12. David Whitmer was a powerful witness of the Book of Mormon. However, he was excommunicated in 1838. He opposed Joseph Smith in many areas. he started his own church and he never rejoined the church like Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris did. David didn’t believe the need for a priesthood restoration or the Doctrine and Covenants, etc. In 1887 (over 57 years after the translation), David publishes, “An address to all believers in Christ.” He promotes the false seer stone in a hat lie. See https://archive.org/details/addresstoallbeli00whit.
13. Although the various bogus seer stone in the hat statement vary in many ways, there are some common statements about “Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light (Whitmer, p12).”
14. Do you realize how silly the seer stone in a hat is compared to the Urim and Thummim? One was created by God and the other by man. Why didn’t the Lord give the brother of Jared a hat? If the light was so bright, why didn’t they translate at night? Most homes of the 1800s had small windows and could easily control the lighting with curtains or a blanket. Think how uncomfortable it would be to be bent over a hat pressed to your face all day–serious back pain. Think how hard it would be for the scribe to hear Joseph’s muffled statements with his face buried in the hat. Think how hard it would be for Joseph to see what was on the stone with a 2 or 3-inch focal distance. Some accounts said that whole sentences appeared on this 3x4x5 cm stone. Well, you should know that there was no punctation. The printer had to add the sentence punctuation. You should also know that the average sentence length is about 25 words. You would be lucky to get 4 or 5 words with a 10-pitch font to display on a curved surface rock and it would be out of focus. To make this ruse more believable, artists now show Joseph’s face 10 to 16 inches away from the bottom of the hat.
15. Readers and leaders can be overly influenced by scholars.
16. Remember that the Gospel Topic Essays were written by anonymous scholars. Some have been changed since the original version. They use very deceptive footnoting. These essays are NOT scripture!
17. Leonard J. Arrington was the first Church Historian in more than a century who was not a General Authority. He served as Church Historian from Jan 1972 to February 1982. Leonard was at odds with a few members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles because of the work being produced by the Church Historian’s Office (revisionist history). See https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi… and https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/…/history-is-then…
18. Remember that Hiram Page tried to lead the church astray with a stone in 1830 (D&C 28). Satan loves a counterfeit!
19. How many revelations were given in the Doctrine and Covenants via a seer stone? Zero. How many revelations were given via the Urim and Thummim? At least 8 sections (Sections 3, 6, 7, 11, 14, 15, 16, and 17).
20. The interview of Richard Bushman by John Dehlin is crazy. Which one is the most destructive to the faith of church members? Is it the one who has been excommunicated for apostasy or the “credentialed changer of church history and Saints editor?” Wait, they both have a PhD.
21. 2 Nephi 9:28-29 is prophetic and powerful. 28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. 29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.
22. Mosiah 28:11-16 is additional proof that Joseph did NOT use a seer stone in a hat.
“Therefore he took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, and also the plates of Nephi, and all the things which he had kept and preserved according to the commandments of God, after having translated and caused to be written the records which were on the plates of gold which had been found by the people of Limhi, which were delivered to him by the hand of Limhi; 12 And this he did because of the great anxiety of his people; for they were desirous beyond measure to know concerning those people who had been destroyed. 13 And now he translated them by the means of those two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow. 14 Now these things were prepared from the beginning, and were handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages;15 And they have been kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord, that he should discover to every creature who should possess the land the iniquities and abominations of his people; 16 And whosoever has these things is called a seer, after the manner of old times.
23. Isn’t it interesting that Joseph could translate just fine using the Urim and Thummim regardless of lighting conditions? Was the fake seer stone so underpowered in brightness (lumens) that it had to be placed in a hat to read the display? Why put limits on God? Have you ever been in a meeting with a powerful projector and the image on the screen was easily viewable without turning off the room lights? I have. It’s all about lumens and foot-candles. The more lumens, the brighter the light will be. Some people use the false analogy about how hard it is to read a cell phone screen while they are outside in the bright sunlight. Joseph was inside a house with small windows. Cell phones are designed to minimize power consumption for longer battery life. If you had a powerful battery with the right cell phone design and settings, users could see the text and graphics on the screen of a cell phone in bright sunlight. It’s all about lumens and foot-candles.
Look at Joseph’s description of light during the first vision. It was “light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun” and “in the midst of that light I saw two Personages.” Also compare with Moroni’s first visit to Joseph, “I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday” and “The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person.” Joseph also said, “After this communication, I saw the light in the room begin to gather immediately around the person of him who had been speaking to me, and it continued to do so until the room was again left dark.” Joseph didn’t require any special lighting or a hat to see these heavenly messengers.
No special lighting was required to use the Liahona (words would appear on spindle from time to time). A modern-day teleprompter works fine indoors or outdoors. In Daniel 5, the astrologers didn’t have any trouble reading the writing on the wall in Belshazzar’s palace. However, only Daniel could provide the interpretation. Why would God provide an underpowered seer stone that couldn’t be read in normal lighting conditions? It doesn’t pass the common-sense test.
I will follow what Joseph and Oliver said, not the intellectuals, scholars, and apostates.” By Bruce Lloyd- Contact Bruce Here Bruce Lloyd
On my personal blog is the evil about Adrenochrome here.
